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The Satanic Doctrine of Universalism

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Shempster

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The doctrine of Universalism is from the devil. This is true of "Christian Universalism" and certainly of more general Universalism.

Universalism is the idea that God will ultimately save everyone, that none will be lost, and that all will ultimately repent and spend eternity with God in heaven. If you think that Universalism is misdefined here then we can discuss this, but for all intents and purposes I think this is a pretty good summary definition.

This doctrine is Satanic because it implies that repentance in this life is not necessary. It is effectively antinomian - claiming that God's Law is unimportant and that it does not matter how we live. But more than this, it strengthens the hands of sinners to continue in their sin. God will ultimately change their mind - if not in this age then in the next. So they are free to continue in their sin. They ultimately have nothing to fear.

Of course, the Bible teaches that repentance in this life is necessary (Luke 13:3), that unrepentant sinners will not inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9-10), and that it is utterly abominable to teach "peace, peace" when there is no peace (Jeremiah 6:14, Ezekiel 13:10).

Don't be fooled. You must repent of your sin. You mustn't allow others to think that it's ok to continue in sin.

Universalists, how would you respond?

I hesitate to call myself a Universalist but my understanding of the bible and what the Holy Spirit has shown me is that it is basically correct and not Satanic.

I do see your point that some may use this teaching to justify sinning. Well, you know what? People like that will use any number of excuses to justify their thoughts and deeds. God's children do not sin (willfully, happily and habitually) and do not look for excuses to continue. The Holy Spirit won't let them get away with it.

The other assumption you make is that after this one chance in life, you either go to heaven or hell for all of eternity with no chance of escape. This would mean that God insists that WE forgive others, but He will refuse to do so which is a contradiction of character.
What I see in the bible are "ages" of time (aion in the Greek) with different purposes. This leaves the table somewhat open.
If it were true that we only have this once chance and that's it, then universalism cannot work.

So that's what it all comes down to. God's character.
100% of everyone I know believes that God will torture us forever with no chance of escape. Mostly because they were told it is true.
This is just my opinion.
 
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redleghunter

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Simply put:

To say that all will be saved, as though this were dogmatic certainty, is heterodox. We can't say that.
To say that all might be saved, with hope and prayer in the long-suffering mercy and grace of God, is an orthodox statement to make.

Dogmatic universalism is heterodox.
Hope in the reality that, ultimately, hell is empty is orthodox.

To say that even hope for the salvation of all is heretical is to go leaps and bounds beyond what the Church has ever said on the matter. It may be an unorthodox position in one's own tradition, but as far as the historic orthodoxy of Christianity is concerned, it's not.

-CryptoLutheran
You make a careful distinction. As we are all called by the Great Commission to be evangelists, yes our hope is all will respond to the Gospel. Yet part of that Gospel is to explain what exactly we are being saved from in this temporal life and life eternal.

I'm sure if we had thousands packed in a stadium presenting the Gospel it is our hope all will bend the knee and confess Christ as Lord and Savior. Just as Moses hoped all in the camp of Israel in the Wilderness after being delivered would obey and follow YHWH.
 
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Light of the East

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Well I suppose the length of time would be up to you. As soon as you decide that you've had enough of hell you can repent and enter into heaven. That's not so fearful.

That's not true at all and it shows a typical Western mentality regarding what salvation is all about.

In the West, the idea of "being saved" is that you "repent" (say some sort of prayer of accepting Jesus or something the like) and then you are issued your "get into heaven free card." It is the judicial idea of heaven being a great law court and all you have to do to be forgiven is to say "Well, yes, I'm sorry I did what I did."

Salvation is not that way at all. Salvation is a journey and a change. In the Eastern Christian faith, this is known as "theosis" or becoming gods. St. Athanasius said "God became man so that man might become god." That was the original purpose in the Garden and it still is now.

Therefore, you don't just experience the torment of your sins, yell out, "Hey, I'm sorry already!" and God decides to let you go. That isn't how it works. The work of being transformed begins immediately after baptism and continues on into eternity. Those who cooperate with God's grace and Holy Spirit through prayers, fasting, receiving the Sacraments, etc., are slowly changed into the likeness of Christ. It is a true ontological change which takes place in the deepest parts of the person.

Now....let's contrast this to a man who just recently died - Hugh Hefner. the ontological reality of Mr. Hefner is that he was a fornicator. A man whose life was about fornication. That was his being. No amount of begging, pleading, saying "I'm sorry" will instantly change that any more than one single dose of medicine will cure a very stubborn and deeply set infection. The fire of God's love begins to burn away and purify depths of depravity within such a soul - but only when that soul gives up its rebellion and turns to God in submission. Then the work of God to heal that soul can begin.

Mr. Hefner may very well be sitting in the presence of God suffering but not as of yet turning from his clinging to the desire to fornicate, which was the god of his life. No one understands how it works, but there must come a moment when the soul realizes that it is non-existent without God, that it is a nothing, and the shock of that begins to turn the soul to "face the music," so to speak. This is the thought of many of the mystics and great visionaries such as Julian of Norwich, St. Isaac the Syrian, and Sergius Bulgakov.

If any of us were to experience the full depth of torment it is to be cleansed of our ontological filth, to sorrow over our sins in this life, and to feel the love of God as a chastening fire, we would probably run from street corner to street corner begging people to turn to Christ to be changed and healed of their love of sin. Your making light of it shows that you know nothing of deep sorrow for sin and the intense pain that it causes.
 
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Light of the East

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[QUOTE="bling

This all seems so silly to me. If you are being tortured until you confess: “Jesus is Lord” why would anyone continue to be tortured past the first second?

Is this not like God twisting your arm and saying: “Love me or else I’ll keep doing it”?

Is God looking for beings to “love” Him out of fear of being tortured?

What kind of “love” would a being have for a God who severely tortured Him for not Loving Him?


Here in lies the problem with this “Universalism”, all mature adults humans on earth are given the opportunity to accept or reject God’s Love to the point they will never accept His Love. This is the free will choice they have with the likely alternative to accepting God’s love being: “the perceived pleasures of sin for a season”. All mature adults spiral down heading for the pigsty of life with points along the way which brings them to their senses and they make the choice to be macho, hang in there and be willing to take the punishment they fully deserve or wimp out, give up, surrender and be willing to accept pure sacrificial charity. Once a person on earth reaches the point at which they would never accept Godly type Love, they will eventually leave this earth without it, so since they were given all the opportunity they needed and nothing more could be done for them, how can they ever make that free will choice outside of living on earth and they did not do it on earth?

This puts an awful lot of people (like possibly in the billions) in a very bad situation since they never heard of Christ or the Gospel. How can you make a choice for something you never even heard of?

What inclines you to think that our will suddenly becomes "not-free" after death?
 
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Deadworm

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the wisest and pithiest statement on the universalist issue is C. S. Lewis's profound statement: "The gates of Hell are locked from the inside." Do you actually share the morally monstrous belief that all those who have NOT repented and accepted Christ as their Savior and Lord will suffer conscious torture for all eternity? If so, you share responsibility for the widespread rejection of the Gospel by morally sensitive people worldwide. btw. great harm is being done to the cause of Christ by the common perception that evangelicals support a president who thinks nothing of constantly lying and of desecrating his marriage by having sexual trysts with porn queens and playboy models. So please respond to these 5 questions:

(1) If, as the Bible often stresses, God is omnipotent and wants to save everyone, why can't God provide fresh postmortem opportunities and environments that empower lost souls to ultimately make redemptive choices. Put differently, if God is pure unconditional love, what does it mean to claim that God loves eternally tormented lost souls?

(2) How can most people, with their limited intellect, wisdom, environments, and opportunities. make any poor choices that merit eternal conscious torture in Hell? Put differently, how can our weak, error- prone natures make any choices in our brief lives heinous enough to be eternally deprived of any chance to learn from their poor choices and pursue righteousness?

(3) How can the vast majority of humanity, who have never even heard the Gospel, be eternally damned because they have not accepted Christ as their Savior?

(4) How can the majority of people who have heard the Gospel be justly eternally damned because they honestly find its exclusivism morally reprehensible and utterly unconvincing?

(5) How can those raised in an ungodly environment with anti-Christian families and friends be eternally damned for their lack of any incentive to take biblical claims seriously? Do you honestly believe God would condemn those in our culture who have never been convicted by the Holy Spirit that the Gospel is true?
 
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RaymondG

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Heaven is a treasure, it is not a given that one, who is poor, would stop seeking this treasure simply because they believe they will eventually get it anyway. It would seem that the wise will still seek this treasure now so that they can become rich now.

It would also seem that one who stops seeking heaven when hell is removed, only seeks heavens to avoid hell. Then the question would arise if one can truly love God with all their heart, mind and soul, if the main motivation is that hell as the only alternative....since, if this motivation is removed, the desire to give God your all is removed as well.
 
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JacksBratt

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If we only go through hell for a term, or if all are saved, in the end... then why did God have to send His son?

Why not just let all humans go through the fire and then invite them into heaven? If we could get there on our own merit, then Christ didn't have to go to the cross.

If those that reject Him, eventually end up with those that accepted Him.... where is the continuity of the bible?

I can't say as to what hell is and I also would like, in my human mind and capacity, like to think that sooner or later, my good friends that are only different than me in the fact that I accept Christ and they do not... I would like to hope that some day they will also be in paradise...

But, that's not what the bible says..

You can twist it, chew it, bend it, spin it, leave words our and put words in... but it still doesn't say that as true scriptural theology.
 
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Paidiske

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MOD HAT ON
This thread will remain closed.
Universalism may only be discussed in the Controversial Christian Theology forum,
and describing the position of others as "Satanic" is unhelpfully inflammatory.​
MOD HAT OFF
 
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