The Satanic Doctrine of Universalism

[Tree of Life]

The doctrine of Universalism is from the devil. This is true of "Christian Universalism" and certainly of more general Universalism.

Universalism is the idea that God will ultimately save everyone, that none will be lost, and that all will ultimately repent and spend eternity with God in heaven. If you think that Universalism is misdefined here then we can discuss this, but for all intents and purposes I think this is a pretty good summary definition.

This doctrine is Satanic because it implies that repentance in this life is not necessary. It is effectively antinomian - claiming that God's Law is unimportant and that it does not matter how we live. But more than this, it strengthens the hands of sinners to continue in their sin. God will ultimately change their mind - if not in this age then in the next. So they are free to continue in their sin. They ultimately have nothing to fear.

Of course, the Bible teaches that repentance in this life is necessary (Luke 13:3), that unrepentant sinners will not inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9-10), and that it is utterly abominable to teach "peace, peace" when there is no peace (Jeremiah 6:14, Ezekiel 13:10).

Don't be fooled. You must repent of your sin. You mustn't allow others to think that it's ok to continue in sin.

Universalists, how would you respond?

 

[Light of the East]

QUOTE="Tree of Life The doctrine of Universalism is from the devil. This is true of "Christian Universalism" and certainly of more general Universalism.

Universalism is the idea that God will ultimately save everyone, that none will be lost, and that all will ultimately repent and spend eternity with God in heaven. If you think that Universalism is misdefined here then we can discuss this, but for all intents and purposes I think this is a pretty good summary definition.

This doctrine is Satanic because it implies that repentance in this life is not necessary. It is effectively antinomian - claiming that God's Law is unimportant and that it does not matter how we live. But more than this, it strengthens the hands of sinners to continue in their sin. God will ultimately change their mind - if not in this age then in the next. So they are free to continue in their sin. They ultimately have nothing to fear.

Of course, the Bible teaches that repentance in this life is necessary (Luke 13:3)

You pick a bad verse to proof-text for your proof. Jesus said that those who do not repent will suffer the same fate. Repent of what? Of belief that He is not the Messiah. Suffer the same fate. Did not the Jews who were in Jerusalem have a similar fate happen to them in AD 70? And Jesus said "except YE repent"..not "except all men repent" This is a localized warning for the Jews of that day.

Always remember that when reading the Bible, there are certain "time-indicators" in the speeches of those speaking. There was a huge event looming on the horizon - the end of the Old Covenant and the destruction of Jerusalem. Jesus foresaw this in Matthew 23 and wept over the city. Paul warned his listeners that the day of the Lord was "at hand," meaning extremely near.

that unrepentant sinners will not inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9-10), and that it is

Agreed. So what will they inherit? Eternal wrath and torture, or a fiery chastening leading to their repentance. Paul, in his love for all men, was warning them of the reality of the second for all who would not repent.

utterly abominable to teach "peace, peace" when there is no peace (Jeremiah 6:14, Ezekiel 13:10).

Don't be fooled. You must repent of your sin. You mustn't allow others to think that it's ok to continue in sin.

Agreed. And woe to us if we do not warn men and women that God will chasten with fire all who persist in doing evil. Woe to us if we do not speak to people about their need for salvation so that they can escape the sorrows and torments of the reality of their sins. Woe to us if we do not pray for their salvation.

Now, again, I ask you....what bothers you so bad about the idea of men and women coming to repentance after experiencing just chastisement for the sins they have done here on earth? What damage is done to the cosmos by God being so forgiving that if they repent after their chastening that He unites to them in love?

Universalists, how would you respond?

 

[Ron Gurley]

AGREE!

"Christian Universalism" is the theological position that: ALL of mankind will ultimately be "saved" through Jesus whether or not spirit-led FAITH / BELIEF leads to salvation in this life.

Mark 1: (NASB),,,Jesus' First Preaching in Galilee
14 Now after John had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee,
preaching the "gospel of God", (Jesus the Divine Messiah has come down from heaven to save Man!)
15 and saying,
“The time (prophecy) is fulfilled, and
the "kingdom of God" (Jesus: SEE: Luke Luke 17:21) is at hand;
REPENT AND BELIEVE in the "gospel (of God)".”

It claims that God's qualities require that ALL people be saved and that "eternal SPRIRITUAL separaration / punishment is a false doctrine.
There is no distinction between those who ACCEPT God and REJECT God"s drawing / calling.
Salvation is not from "hell" and eternal spiritual separation / death,
but Salvation is ONLY from sin.

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It is contrary to the very heart of orthodox Christ-following.

John 3: 17-18, 36
...For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world,
but that the world might be SAVED THROUGH Him.
He who BELIEVES in Him is not judged;
he who does not believe has been judged already,
because he has not BELIEVED in the name of the only begotten Son of God...
He who BELIEVES in the Son has eternal life;
but he who does not obey the Son will not see life,
but the wrath of God abides on him.”

SEE ALSO:

http://carm.org/christian-universalism

 

[Light of the East]

AGREE!

"Christian Universalism" is the theological position that: ALL of mankind will ultimately be "saved" through Jesus whether or not spirit-led FAITH / BELIEF leads to salvation in this life.

Mark 1: (NASB),,,Jesus' First Preaching in Galilee
14 Now after John had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee,
preaching the "gospel of God", (Jesus the Divine Messiah has come down from heaven to save Man!)
15 and saying,
“The time (prophecy) is fulfilled, and
the "kingdom of God" (Jesus: SEE: Luke Luke 17:21) is at hand;
REPENT AND BELIEVE in the "gospel (of God)".”

It claims that God's qualities require that ALL people be saved and that "eternal SPRIRITUAL separaration / punishment is a false doctrine.
There is no distinction between those who ACCEPT God and REJECT God"s drawing / calling.
Salvation is not from "hell" and eternal spiritual separation / death,
but Salvation is ONLY from sin.

Whoops! Browser Settings Incompatible

It is contrary to the very heart of orthodox Christ-following.

John 3: 17-18, 36
...For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world,
but that the world might be SAVED THROUGH Him.
He who BELIEVES in Him is not judged;
he who does not believe has been judged already,
because he has not BELIEVED in the name of the only begotten Son of God...
He who BELIEVES in the Son has eternal life;
but he who does not obey the Son will not see life,
but the wrath of God abides on him.”

SEE ALSO:

Christian Universalism | CARM.org

Well, I guess I'll go get a rag to clean the coffee I spit all over my monitor when you spoke of "orthodox" Christ-following. That you would quote a guy like Matt Slick and CARM, who doesn't even follow or believe what the Apostles taught and then call that "orthodox"............pfffffttttttttt..

 

[Tree of Life]

Now, again, I ask you....what bothers you so bad about the idea of men and women coming to repentance after experiencing just chastisement for the sins they have done here on earth? What damage is done to the cosmos by God being so forgiving that if they repent after their chastening that He unites to them in love?

The idea of God saving people doesn't bother me at all. What bothers me is that Scripture clearly teaches that now is the time for repentance (Hebrews 3:12-15), that God is pouring out his judgments now in order to persuade people to repent (Revelation 9:20-21), and that the time for repentance will come to an end (Revelation 10:6-7).

Therefore this teaching is demonic, irresponsible, and leading many astray. That bothers me.

 

[Ron Gurley]

Repent/Repentance is simply turning to God spiritually, RE-THINKING!

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish (spiritual separation) but for all to come to repentance. (turn to God for salvation)

 

[Jeshu]

i totally disagree.

The bible is clear as crystal! 1 Timothy 4:9-10. However my position is so persecuted down here that i may not demonstrate the truth that everyone is saved but not one willful sinner will escape punishment. Still such is God's truth.

Peace.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Simply put:

To say that all will be saved, as though this were dogmatic certainty, is heterodox. We can't say that.
To say that all might be saved, with hope and prayer in the long-suffering mercy and grace of God, is an orthodox statement to make.

Dogmatic universalism is heterodox.
Hope in the reality that, ultimately, hell is empty is orthodox.

To say that even hope for the salvation of all is heretical is to go leaps and bounds beyond what the Church has ever said on the matter. It may be an unorthodox position in one's own tradition, but as far as the historic orthodoxy of Christianity is concerned, it's not.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Rajni]

Universalists, how would you respond?

Technically, they can't, in this particular subforum.
This thread would have to be moved to the Controversial Theology area first.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

The "wide road" tells us that most will be going to the hot place.

The "narrow road" tells us that a few will be going to heaven.

M-Bob

 

[Albion]

Universalism is the idea that God will ultimately save everyone, that none will be lost, and that all will ultimately repent and spend eternity with God in heaven. If you think that Universalism is misdefined here then we can discuss this, but for all intents and purposes I think this is a pretty good summary definition.
.............................................................................................................................
This doctrine is Satanic because it implies that repentance in this life is not necessary. It is effectively antinomian - claiming that God's Law is unimportant and that it does not matter how we live. But more than this, it strengthens the hands of sinners to continue in their sin. God will ultimately change their mind - if not in this age then in the next. So they are free to continue in their sin. They ultimately have nothing to fear.

I am not a Universalist, but most Universalists would, I believe, respond by pointing out that your definition is correct, but the consequences are not in line with your thinking.

To say that everyone will be saved does not mean that everyone will waltz into heaven...the faithful, the unbelievers, and the downright evil people among us.

Most Universalists believe that those we would say are deserving of Hell will indeed get it! They just wont stay there forever. That is not exactly a fate that any of us would think of as a "free pass."

 

[Tree of Life]

I am not a Universalist, but most Universalists would, I believe, respond by pointing out that your definition is correct, but the consequences are not in line with your thinking.

To say that everyone will be saved does not mean that everyone will waltz into heaven...the faithful, the unbelievers, and the downright evil people among us.

Most Universalists believe that those we would say are deserving of Hell will indeed get it! They just wont stay there forever. That is not exactly a fate that any of us would think of as a "free pass."

That's why I use the word "ultimately". In the Universalist view, people may indeed have things that they ought to fear temporally. They should fear hell - even if it lasts a trillion years for them. But what's a trillion years in light of eternity? Ultimately they have nothing to fear.

 

[Albion]

They should fear hell - even if it lasts a trillion years for them. But what's a trillion years in light of eternity? Ultimately they have nothing to fear.

All things considered, a trillion years in hell would be enough to cause me to fear, but of course I cannot speak for everyone.

 

[Tree of Life]

All things considered, a trillion years in hell would be enough to cause me to fear, but of course I cannot speak for everyone.

Well I suppose the length of time would be up to you. As soon as you decide that you've had enough of hell you can repent and enter into heaven. That's not so fearful.

 

[Albion]

I dont know that you are at liberty to add that proviso to the belief system of the Universalists. It is not what Universalists whom I have heard from think will happen.

 

[Tree of Life]

I dont know that you are at liberty to add that proviso to the belief system of the Universalists. It is not what Universalists whom I have heard from think will happen.

When a system is not based upon Scripture then we're at liberty to add whatever we want to it. On what do they base their views about the length of hell?

 

[Rajni]

When a system is not based upon Scripture then we're at liberty to add whatever we want to it. On what do they base their views about the length of hell?

Again, if you want a full treatment of the subject, I would
post it in the Controversial Christian Theology forum.

As I said before, Universalists cannot talk about Universalism here,
and they're the ones to whom you're addressing your questions, no?

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Just out of curiosity, are there any Universalists here?

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Most Universalists believe that those we would say are deserving of Hell will indeed get it! They just wont stay there forever. That is not exactly a fate that any of us would think of as a "free pass."

Well nothing new Under the Sun and I guess some will believe that but, that is not what the Bible teaches.
M-Bob

 

[bling]

This all seems so silly to me. If you are being tortured until you confess: “Jesus is Lord” why would anyone continue to be tortured past the first second?

Is this not like God twisting your arm and saying: “Love me or else I’ll keep doing it”?

Is God looking for beings to “love” Him out of fear of being tortured?

What kind of “love” would a being have for a God who severely tortured Him for not Loving Him?


Here in lies the problem with this “Universalism”, all mature adults humans on earth are given the opportunity to accept or reject God’s Love to the point they will never accept His Love. This is the free will choice they have with the likely alternative to accepting God’s love being: “the perceived pleasures of sin for a season”. All mature adults spiral down heading for the pigsty of life with points along the way which brings them to their senses and they make the choice to be macho, hang in there and be willing to take the punishment they fully deserve or wimp out, give up, surrender and be willing to accept pure sacrificial charity. Once a person on earth reaches the point at which they would never accept Godly type Love, they will eventually leave this earth without it, so since they were given all the opportunity they needed and nothing more could be done for them, how can they ever make that free will choice outside of living on earth and they did not do it on earth?