THE SABBATH IS GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT - WHERE IS THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS IT IS ABOLISHED?

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NBB

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He is not allowed to say in this sub-forum that people are going to hell for not observing the law. So I suppose we should not ask if he believes that as it could be baiting.

But to save you some time, Ellen White, inspired author to Seventh-day Adventists says:

Satan is the sharpest critic that the world has ever known, and he works to hinder and pervert truth. He has induced men to strive to change the Sabbath of the fourth commandment. Under his dictation the first day of the week has been adopted by the Christian world as the Sabbath. He has used his masterly mind to influence other men to adopt the same views that he himself entertains. But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4}

Those who reverence the commandments of Jehovah will, after the light has been given them in reference to the fourth precept of the decalogue, obey it without questioning the feasibility or convenience of such obedience. God made man in his own image, and then gave him an example of observing the seventh day, which he sanctified and made holy. He designed that man should worship him upon that day, and engage in no secular pursuits. No one who disregards the fourth commandment, after becoming enlightened in regard to the claims of the Sabbath, can be held guiltless in the sight of God. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 14}

Here the discourse was broken in upon by questions from one who had kept the Sabbath a short time, but who had recently given it up. Rising in the congregation, he said, "This Sabbath question has been a great trouble to me during the last year, and now I would like to ask a question: Is the observance of the Sabbath necessary to my salvation? Answer, yes or no." I answered promptly, This is an important question, and demands something more full than yes or no. All will be judged according to the light that has shone upon them. If they have light upon the Sabbath, they cannot be saved in rejecting that light. But none will be held accountable for light which they have never received. I then quoted the words of Christ, "If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin; but now they have no cloak for their sin." It was with the greatest difficulty, however, that I made these remarks; for the questioner kept jumping to his feet, and interrupting me, and in the most excited manner and with the most violent gestures demanding that the answer be yes or no. {HS 234.3}

As persons become convinced from the Scriptures that the claims of the fourth commandment are still binding, the question is often raised, Is it necessary in order to secure salvation that we keep the Sabbath? This is a question of grave importance. If the light has shone from the word of God, if the message has been presented to men, as it was to Pharaoh, and they refuse to heed that message, if they reject the light, they refuse to obey God, and cannot be saved in their disobedience. On the other hand, many have died conscientiously observing the first day of the week as the Sabbath of the fourth commandment. These will not be condemned, because they followed the best light they had. They will not be held responsible for light which they never received. Christ said to the scribes and Pharisees: "If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin; but now they have no cloak for their sin.' Again he said, "For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind. And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also? Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin; but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth." {RH, January 5, 1886 par. 2}
So yes he and Ellen White is basically saying that people are going to hell because of that.
But i didn't know about that forum rule and it was not my intention to bait him.

Wow i like Ellen White even less now...
So if a person doesn't know sexual sin is a sin and commits it he will be saved because he was ignorant? doesn't sin means sin even if you don't know?.
That doesn't mean God will not judge people that have sinned without law because they didn't know about what was sin? i don't know...

And the bible shouldn't be more clear if this was an important aspect regarding salvation?, but Paul still says let no one judge you about sabbaths.
 
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tall73

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Yes.

At or around the spring equinox, you need to determine the NEW MOON. This is the definition of the first day of the first month of the new year - in the month of Abib, when the barley begins to turn green. It should be the new moon after the equinox.

So is this measurement of the new moon taken in Israel, or do you apply it locally?
 
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tall73

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So yes he and Ellen White is basically saying that people are going to hell because of that.
But i didn't know about that forum rule and it was not my intention to bait him.

Wow i like Ellen White even less now...
So if a person doesn't know sexual sin is a sin and commits it he will be saved because he was ignorant? doesn't sin means sin even if you don't know?.
That doesn't mean God will not judge people that have sinned without law because they didn't know about what was sin? i don't know...

Yes, well, she had comments too about when it would become a test over the Sabbath.
 
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Dkh587

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Interesting. Do you have some historical reference to look over on them considering clean animals common if in the presence of unclean? And I agree with your later statement, common wouldn't mean not to be eaten. Unclean meant not to be eaten.

I forget where I read that they would not eat clean animals that touched or were around unclean animals. I’ll dig around and see if I can find it.

Yes, but also if someone was in an unclean state they could not carry out a holy function, so there seems some overlap in the two concepts. But that is not the main point here.

they seem to be closely related. But to profane something doesn’t mean to make it unclean, it would just be to make something common. The problem with stuff being common is when you take something holy, and profane it, and make it common. Animals can’t be common because they aren’t holy in the first place. I do get what you’re saying.


But then if God cleansed the gentiles, why does Peter take the notion away of calling any man common OR unclean? Wouldn't he just say unclean?

Because Peter was rejecting the clean animals altogether. While it was a vision, there are definitely spiritual truths on multiple levels.

When God told Peter to rise, kill and eat, this was obviously referring to the clean animals. Peter rejects everything, but incorrectly so. So Peter responds and says he hasn’t eaten anything common or unclean.
Obviously Peter misunderstood God, so in his misunderstanding, he was actually calling the clean animals common AND unclean, because God wasn’t talking about eating the unclean animals in the first place.

Under the paradigm you have suggested the gentiles would represent those who are common. What would the unclean animals represent then?

Just trying to understand your take on it.

Let me clarify a little more. The clean animals represent God’s people whom he has cleansed. This consists of Israelites & Gentiles whom have crossed over and joined God & his people

The unclean animals represent Gentiles who are not a part of God’s people.


But at the same time, Paul speaks about all things being clean in Roman 14, which was the same word as in Lev. 11. So what do you do with that aspect?
give me a little time. I’ll have to look into Romans 14:20 and 14:21.

Do keep in mind, though, that Romans 14:14 should read “common” and not “unclean”, since the Greek word for common is used

EDITED:

Maybe in Romans 14:20, When Paul said all things are pure, he’s speaking of food in the context of what food is according to the law.

Remember, to Jesus and the Apostles and Israelites, food to them is what God considers food, not us in America. Very different definitions.

I think that’s how Paul is speaking. Here is how the NLT translates 14:20. I’m gonna add some words for clarity sake in parenthesis.

Romans 14:20 NLT
Don’t tear apart the work of God over what you eat. Remember, all foods(foods according to the law) are acceptable, but it is wrong to eat something if it makes another person stumble.
 
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tall73

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So yes he and Ellen White is basically saying that people are going to hell because of that.
But i didn't know about that forum rule and it was not my intention to bait him.

Wow i like Ellen White even less now...
So if a person doesn't know sexual sin is a sin and commits it he will be saved because he was ignorant? doesn't sin means sin even if you don't know?.
That doesn't mean God will not judge people that have sinned without law because they didn't know about what was sin? i don't know...

Well in the case of the religious leaders she references, in quoting Christ, they rejected the Messiah when He fulfilled all the requirements of being the Messiah.


On the other hand, some of the things that can be known about God are manifest by what He made (Romans 1), and the conscience also bears witness (Romans 2). So per Romans all are without excuse in regards to sin in general.
 
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tall73

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I forget where I read that they would not eat clean animals that touched or were around unclean animals. I’ll dig around and see if I can find it.
Thanks, that would be helpful. I know it can be hard to track such things down. We read a lot of details, and at the time we don't know which will be necessary to recall the source!

Let me clarify a little more. The clean animals represent God’s people whom he has cleansed. This consists of Israelites & Gentiles whom have crossed over and joined God & his people

The unclean animals represent Gentiles who are not a part of God’s people.
I can somewhat see that. For instance Paul talks about the children being unclean except the believing spouse sanctifies them.

On the other hand, why would he say God has said not to call any person common or unclean? If there are then unclean people too, shouldn't he call them unclean?



Where did Paul use unclean in Romans 14? Was it Romans 14:14? Because in 14:14, the word KOINOS is used, not unclean(akathartos). The translators should have used the English word “common” in Romans 14:14 instead of “unclean”, because the Greek word for unclean is not there

No he did not use unclean there. But he did use CLEAN there, the same as used in Lev. 11.

My take is that it likely refers to food sacrificed to idols given the context of eating only vegetables, vs. meat as well, but the use of the word clean there does suggest the possibility of more since he says that all things are clean.
 
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NBB

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Yes, well, she had comments too about when it would become a test over the Sabbath.

I received the Holy Spirit in a pentecostal church not in an SDA one, so supposedly God would not support my church that is so out of touch 'holding hands with satan sunday' with his spiritual blessings.
 
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BNR32FAN

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We do have to keep all commandments of the Most High God. He is our Father; that shouldn't be a concern of a child whether or not s/he should obey their Parents - especially when the parents never said the law was inert, obsolete or abolished.


Don't let knuckleheads from the street (doctrine of men) get you in trouble at home (the Most High God). They talk a lot, but the Most High God is clear, and has not reneged on His requirement for perfection. He simply offers us Mercy while we get our act together - instead of obliterating us on the spot (well within His Law; fair.) Lucky for us, the Most High is Just rather than "fair." It isn't "fair" that we a second, third, and nonillionth chance at Life; however, it is Justified by the blood of the Redeemer. Nowhere are we relieved from our call to obedience.

Should we go back to stoning everyone who isn’t worshiping on Saturday?
 
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Dkh587

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On the other hand, why would he say God has said not to call any person common or unclean? If there are then unclean people too, shouldn't he call them unclean?
I’m not sure. The words from God we’re “do not call what God has cleansed ‘common’ or ‘unclean’

I would say his explanation was in context of the vision, rather than it being a general statement regarding all mankind. It would make more sense to me that when he said “call no man common or unclean”, it would be in relation to the Gentiles that were grafted in, rather than Gentiles who reject and hate God. I personally don’t think Gentiles who live a life against God and Christ are cleansed, unless they repent and turn to God/Christ.


No he did not use unclean there. But he did use CLEAN there, the same as used in Lev. 11.

My take is that it likely refers to food sacrificed to idols given the context of eating only vegetables, vs. meat as well, but the use of the word clean there does suggest the possibility of more since he says that all things are clean.

I added some stuff regarding Romans 14:20 to my last post after you had already quoted it, but I’ll repeat it again.

I think one thing we have to keep in mind, is when Paul, Jesus and the Apostles refer to food, it’s in context of what food is according to the law, which is plants and clean animals. So when we look at it like that, all food is clean for sure.

I think that’s how Paul is speaking. Here is how the NLT translates 14:20. I’m gonna add some words for clarity sake in parenthesis.

Romans 14:20 NLT
Don’t tear apart the work of God over what you eat. Remember, all foods(foods according to the law) are acceptable, but it is wrong to eat something if it makes another person stumble.


The issue in Romans 14 is people quarreling over whether we should eat only vegetables, or if we should eat vegetables and [clean]meats. As well as the issue of things people consider common. Some people wouldn’t eat food they considered common, like Peter, even if it was a clean animal
 
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LoveGodsWord

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"Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."(James 4:17) "All unrighteousness is sin:" (I John 5:17)

Good scripture you quote here. Let's look at it in a little more detail..

1 JOHN 5:17 [17] ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS IS SIN: and there is a sin not unto death.

Q. WHAT IS "UNRIGHTEOUSNESS"?
A. UNRIGHTEOUSNESS = INIQUITY = SIN

...............

GREEK AND HEBREW

"UNRIGHTEOUSNESS" [GREEK G93] ἀδικία; adikia; ad-ee-kee'-ah; From G94; legal injustice (properly the quality, by implication the act; moral wrongfulness (of charater, life or act): - iniquity [sin], unjust, unrighteousness, wrong.

"UNRIGHTEOUSNESS" [HEBREW 5766] עול עול עולה עולה עלה; ‛evel ‛âvel ‛avlâh ‛ôlâh ‛ôlâh; eh'-vel, aw'-vel, av-law', o-law', o-law'; eh'-vel, aw'-vel, av-law', o-law', o-law; From H5765; moral evil: - iniquity, [sin] perverseness, unjust (-ly), unrighteousness (-ly), wicked (-ness).

..............

CONCLUSION: UNRIGHTEOUSNESS = SIN

..............

Q. WHAT IS SIN?

JAMES 2:8-11 [8], If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well: [9], But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. [10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11] For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW

James is pretty clear if we brake ANY of God's Law (10 commandments) then we are a TRANSGRESSOR of God's LAW

links to...........

1 JOHN 3:4 [4], Whosoever commits SIN transgresses also the law: for SIN is the transgression of the law.

John is in agreement with James and states that if we TRANSGRESS God's LAW then we commit SIN because SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF GOD'S LAW. So it is very clear that SIN is breaking ANY of God's LAW (10 commandments)

Links to...........

ROMANS 7:7 [7]. What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known SIN, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Well here we have Paul in agreement with James and John also telling us that SIN is breaking God's commandments and uses the 10th commandment as an example of breaking any of God's LAW (10 commandments) = SIN (Exodus 20:17)

Links to............

ROMANS 3:20 [20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN.

Once again Paul is in agreement with John and James which all agree together that if we break any of God's LAW (10 commandments) we commit SIN because as James, John and Paul all agree together that SIN is breaking ANY of God's 10 commandments.

..............

A. ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS = SIN and according to God's Word, SIN is KNOWINGLY breaking any of God's 10 Commandments. This includes the 4th Commandment Sabbath commandment which is one of the 10 Commandments

..............

Q. What is the opposite of UNRIGHTEOUSSNESS [= SIN = Breaking God's Commandments]?
A. The opposite of UNRIGHTEOUSNESS is RIGHTEOUSNESS

Q. WHAT IS RIGHTOUESSNESS?

PSLAMS 119:172 [172], My tongue shall speak of your word: for ALL YOUR COMMANDMENTS ARE RIGHTEOUSNESS.

DEUTERONOMY 6:25 [25], And IT SHALL BE OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS, IF WE OBSERVE TO DO ALL THESE COMMANDMENTS BEFORE THE LORD OUR GOD, AS HE COMMANDED US.

PROVERBS 10:16 [16], The labor of the RIGHTEOUS tends to life: the FRUIT OF THE WICKED TO SIN.

EZEKIEL 33:18 When the righteous turns from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, he shall even die for it.

..............

A. RIGHTEOUSNESS = Obedience to God's Commandments.

..............

NONE of us are RIGHTEOUS without God or by keeping God's LAW because we have all sinned and are sinners [sinful nature flesh] in need of a Savior.

ISAIAH 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

ROMANS 3:9-20
[9], What then? are we better than they? No, in no way: for we have before proved both Jews and Greeks, that they are all under sin;
[10], As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
[11], There is none that understands, there is none that seeks after God.
[12], They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that does good, no, not one.
[13], Their throat is an open sepulcher; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
[14], Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
[15], Their feet are swift to shed blood:
[16], Destruction and misery are in their ways:
[17], And the way of peace have they not known:
[18], There is no fear of God before their eyes.
[19], Now we know that whatsoever things the law says, it says to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
[20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

We need a change of heart in order to be obedient to God's LAWS. This is the NEW COVENNANT promise to LOVE (Jeremiah 31:31-34; Hebrews 8:10-12)..

continuing the need for a change of heart only God can give through faith...

MATTHEW 9:12, [12], But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. [13], But go and learn what that means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

JOHN 3:3-9, [3], Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. [4], Nicodemus said unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? [5], Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. [6], That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. [7], Marvel not that I said unto you, You must be born again.

1 JOHN 3:9 [9], Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his nature remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

All of the above links into the NEW COVENANT promise of God writing his LAWS in our heart so that we might follow him and be OBEDIENT to his laws by faith.

HEBREWS 8:10-12 [from Jeremiah 31:31-34]
[10], For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11], And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12], For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

CIRCUMCISION a shadow law pointing to a NEW HEART...

God promises to save us from our sins and give us a new heart to walk with him and follow him.

DEUTERONOMY 30 [6] And the LORD your God will CIRCUMCISE YOUR HEART AND THE HEART OF YOUR DECENDENCE, TO LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART AND WITHYOU’RE YOUR SOUL, THAT YOU MAY LIVE.

JEREMIAH 4 [4] CIRCUMCISE YOURSELF TO THE LORD, AND TAKE AWAY THE FORESKINS OF YOUR HEART, you men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.

DEUTERONOMY 10 [16] CIRCUMCISE therefore THE FORESKIN OF YOUR HEART, and be no more stiff-necked.

NEW COVENANT FULFILLMENT of the SHADOWS of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCE of CIRCUMCISION pointing the CIRCUMCISION of the HEART through faith in Christ…

1 JOHN 5:4 [4], FOR WHOEVER IS BORN OF GOD OVERCOMES THE WORLD: and this is the victory that overcomes the world, even our faith.

RIGHTEOUSNESS and SALVATION from SIN is be FAITH in God's WORD. This is the same WORD that created all things. FAITH is the VICTORY over sin and righteousness to LOVE.

LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in all those who BELIEVE (Romans 13:8-10).

The ten commandment law given to Moses was never for Gentiles, rather, it was given to Israel ONLY.

God's ISRAEL are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. Gentiles are now grafted in to God's ISRAEL. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL you have NO part in the NEW COVENANT promise.

SCRIPTURE SUPPORT HERE CLICK ME.

So back to the OP here...

Where is the scriptures that say God's 4th Commandment has been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep SUNDAY as a HOLY DAY?

Thanks for your thoughts Theo, hope this helps.


.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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The problem is you are still missing quite a few laws if you break it into 10 commandments, and then the sacrificial laws.

Now you have in other places indicated a difference between the 10 commandments on stone, and the handwritten ordinances of the book of the law.

But while the 10 commandments on stone represented the words of the covenant, the covenant document, yet the covenant in Ex. 19 involved the people promising to do all the Lord commanded. He commanded more than the 10.

And we see in Matthew 5 again that when Jesus talks about the law and prophets not being done away with, and speaks about commandments, he references not only two of the 10 commandments (murder and adultery, but also commandments about divorce, oaths, eye for an eye, etc. with the same formula "you have heard".

Your distinction misses the point that the covenant document was a witness to the covenant agreement, not the totality of God's requirements.

Hello Tall,

Nice to see you and welcome to this thread.

Not really, the point of making a distintion here is to separate the shadow laws in ordinances for remission of sin from the ETERNAL law of God that gives us a knowledge of what sin and rightouesness are (Romans 3:20) These are God's 10 Commandments which are the standard of good and evil in the OLD and NEW Covenant and the judgment to come.

This is a comparison to the shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the covanant that point to Jesus and God's plan of salvation. Both have a different role and purpose under the OLD COVENANT one is FOREVER the others are shadows fulfilled in Christ and point to his plan of salvation for mankind. Together both God's 10 Commandments and the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT made up the OLD COVENANT.

Appreciate your thoughts and thanks for sharing,

So back to the OP here...

Where is the scriptures that say God's 4th Commandment has been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep SUNDAY as a HOLY DAY?

Hope this helps.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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He is not allowed to say in this sub-forum that people are going to hell for not observing the law. So I suppose we should not ask if he believes that as it could be baiting.

But to save you some time, Ellen White, inspired author to Seventh-day Adventists says:

Satan is the sharpest critic that the world has ever known, and he works to hinder and pervert truth. He has induced men to strive to change the Sabbath of the fourth commandment. Under his dictation the first day of the week has been adopted by the Christian world as the Sabbath. He has used his masterly mind to influence other men to adopt the same views that he himself entertains. But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4}

Those who reverence the commandments of Jehovah will, after the light has been given them in reference to the fourth precept of the decalogue, obey it without questioning the feasibility or convenience of such obedience. God made man in his own image, and then gave him an example of observing the seventh day, which he sanctified and made holy. He designed that man should worship him upon that day, and engage in no secular pursuits. No one who disregards the fourth commandment, after becoming enlightened in regard to the claims of the Sabbath, can be held guiltless in the sight of God. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 14}

Here the discourse was broken in upon by questions from one who had kept the Sabbath a short time, but who had recently given it up. Rising in the congregation, he said, "This Sabbath question has been a great trouble to me during the last year, and now I would like to ask a question: Is the observance of the Sabbath necessary to my salvation? Answer, yes or no." I answered promptly, This is an important question, and demands something more full than yes or no. All will be judged according to the light that has shone upon them. If they have light upon the Sabbath, they cannot be saved in rejecting that light. But none will be held accountable for light which they have never received. I then quoted the words of Christ, "If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin; but now they have no cloak for their sin." It was with the greatest difficulty, however, that I made these remarks; for the questioner kept jumping to his feet, and interrupting me, and in the most excited manner and with the most violent gestures demanding that the answer be yes or no. {HS 234.3}

As persons become convinced from the Scriptures that the claims of the fourth commandment are still binding, the question is often raised, Is it necessary in order to secure salvation that we keep the Sabbath? This is a question of grave importance. If the light has shone from the word of God, if the message has been presented to men, as it was to Pharaoh, and they refuse to heed that message, if they reject the light, they refuse to obey God, and cannot be saved in their disobedience. On the other hand, many have died conscientiously observing the first day of the week as the Sabbath of the fourth commandment. These will not be condemned, because they followed the best light they had. They will not be held responsible for light which they never received. Christ said to the scribes and Pharisees: "If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin; but now they have no cloak for their sin.' Again he said, "For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind. And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also? Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin; but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth." {RH, January 5, 1886 par. 2}

Please do not answer for me as I am able to answer for myself which I have already with God's Word. If you do not mind this thread is for sharing the scriptures, not EGW. Do you have any scripture to share?

May I also ask you if you believe and keep the God's 4th Commandment Sabbath?`

And back to the OP here...

Where is the scriptures that say God's 4th Commandment has been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep SUNDAY as a HOLY DAY?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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What makes the 10 commandments any more significant than God’s other 603 commandments? If we must keep the Saturday Sabbath then why not keep all of God’s commandments? The reason is because we are no longer under the letter of the law we are under the purpose of the law.

Hi BNR32FAN,

So nice to meet you here. Welcome to the thread.

Great question. The 10 Commandments were spoken and written by God himself. Nothing was to be added to them and God commanded them to be separated from the MOSAIC BOOK of the Covenant. They are the foundation of the mercy seat where the presenece of God is. They are to be written on the heart of those who have faith in God's Word and are the very standard of the OLD and NEW COVENANT and the judgment to come and the KNOWLEDGE of what sin and rightoeusness are and the standard of good and evil.

God's 10 Commandments are God's ETERNAL LAW while the MOSAIC laws for remission of sin are only shadow laws pointing to Christ and God's great plan of salvation for all mankind.

SCRIPTURE SUPPORT HERE CLICK ME.

Hope this helps.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Should we go back to stoning everyone who isn’t worshiping on Saturday?

If you are living in the OLD COVENANT and follow the civil laws of ISRAEL maybe, but no, we are in the NEW COVENANT now and not under the governance of the civil laws of the OLD Covenant.

It is interesting though that this law for stoning was not just for God's 4th Commandment but anyone caught openly breaking nearlt any of God's 10 Commandments were also stoned.

So back to the OP here...

Where is the scriptures that say God's 4th Commandment has been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep SUNDAY as a HOLY DAY?
 
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tall73

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Hello Tall,

Nice to see you and welcome to this thread.

Not really, the point of making a distintion here is to separate the shadow laws in ordinances for remission of sin from the ETERNAL law of God that gives us a knowledge of what sin and rightouesness are (Romans 3:20) These are God's 10 Commandments which are the standard of good and evil in the OLD and NEW Covenant and the judgment to come.

But what about the other moral laws from the law of Moses. What about the laws Jesus references also in Matthew 5?

Why do you make it only about the 10?


This is a comparison to the shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the covanant that point to Jesus and God's plan of salvation. Both have a different role and purpose under the OLD COVENANT one is FOREVER the others are shadows fulfilled in Christ and point to his plan of salvation for mankind. Together both God's 10 Commandments and the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT made up the OLD COVENANT.
You just dodged what was said. The Mosaic Book of the covenant had more than just laws pointing to sacrifice.

What about those other laws, such as the ones Jesus mentioned in Mat. 5?

Where is the scriptures that say God's 4th Commandment has been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep SUNDAY as a HOLY DAY?

Hope this helps.

The Sabbath is not abolished.

I see no command to keep Sunday as a holy day.

Your division of the 10 and the book of the law does not explain why you discarded the laws Jesus references in Mat. 5 beyond the two of the 10 commandments. The laws regarding divorce, oaths, etc. He references in the context of "you have heard".
 
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tall73

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Please to not answer for me as I am able to answer for myself which I have already with God's Word. If you do not mind this thread is for sharing the scriptures, not EGW. Do you have any scripture to share?

I didn't answer for you. I said you could not answer if you did believe that, so he should not ask that.

I did however point out the teaching of the Adventist church. I know you don't like it when I do that. But the poster seemed to want to know.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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But what about the other moral laws from the law of Moses. What about the laws Jesus references also in Matthew 5? Why do you make it only about the 10?
The earlier discussion was making the distinction between God's ETERNAL LAWS (10 Commandments) spoken and written by God on stone which give us the KNOWLEDGE of Good and Evil and the shadow laws for remission of sin from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT which were a shadow of things to come.

Matthew 5 is only a repeat of what has already been given in the OLD Testament and that is that SIN origniates in the heart. It is a NEW heart that the NEW COVENANT promises which is God's LAW written on the heart to LOVE and LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in those who BELIEVE his WORD. It is faith that gives us the victory to FOLLOW God's WORD.

You just dodged what was said. The Mosaic Book of the covenant had more than just laws pointing to sacrifice.

No I did not dodge anything. I have always discussed the MOSAIC laws for REMISSION OF SIN from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT. I have never referred to every part of the BOOK of the COVENANT and other laws written in them.

The Sabbath is not abolished, and we are not commanded to Keep Sunday as a holy day.
Great one thing that we agree on. Thanks for sharing your belief which I also agee with :oldthumbsup:

That does not free you from answering why you discarded the laws Jesus references in Mat. 5 beyond the two of the 10 commandments. The laws regarding divorce, oaths, etc. He references in the context of "you have heard".
I never discarded answering anything. You have made claims to things I have not been talking about in earlier posts which have been clarified more then once now. Matthew 5 answered above see top of this post.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I didn't answer for you. I said you could not answer if you did believe that, so he should not ask that.
Really? Sounded like you did. As the earlier post was addressed to me and I already answered it.
I did however point out the teaching of the Adventist church. I know you don't like it when I do that. But the poster seemed to want to know.
Not at all. I do not like it however, when you take quotes out of context and try and put an interpretation to them that they are not saying.

This is a thread in relation to finding "SCRIPTURE" which is discussing where in God's WORD does it say God's 4th Commandment has been abolsihed and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

Do you have any scripture to share?
 
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The earlier discussion was making the distingtion between God's ETERNAL LAWS (10 Commandments) spoken and written by God on stone which give us the KNOWLEDGE of Good and Evil and the shadow laws for remission of sin from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT which were a shadow of things to come.

So what do you do with the rest of the laws?

Matthew 5 is only a repeat of what has already been given in the OLD Testament and that is that SIN origniates in the heart. It is a NEW heart that the NEW COVENANT promises which is God's LAW written on the heart to LOVE and LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in those who BELIEVE his WORD. It is faith that gives us the victory to FOLLOW God's WORD.

What do you do with the rest of the laws in the book of Moses besides the ones dealing with sacrifice?

We know for instance what you do with the clean and unclean laws. What about the rest?


No I did not dodge anything. I have always discussed the MOSAIC laws for REMISSION OF SIN from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT. I have never referred to every part of the BOOK of the COVENANT and other laws written in them.
The covenant was not just the ten and the laws for remission of sin. It was all the law. So what do you do with the rest?

Great one thing that we agree on. Thanks for sharing your belief which I also agee with :oldthumbsup:


Glad we agree.


But Jesus says He did not come to do away with the law and prophets. But you seem only concerned with the dietary laws and the ten. What about the rest of them?
 
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tall73

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Really? Sounded like you did. As the earlier post was addressed to me and I already answered it.
I was clarifying for the poster that you could not answer the question he was asking if you did believe that because it would violate the rules of the forum. And by asking he could violate them.

He got the point and said he hadn't realized that.

Not at all. I do not like it however, when you take quotes out of context and try and put an interpretation to them that they are not saying.

Well, the poster of course will just have to judge that. But I was posting what the Adventist church believes so he could know.


This is a thread in relation to finding "SCRIPTURE" which is discussing where in God's WORD does it say God's 4th Commandment has been abolsihed and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

Do you have any scripture to share?

I have been sharing Scripture in this thread and enjoying the study. But the poster seemed to get the answer he needed from the post I made, which discusses the Adventist view.
 
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