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The Sabbath debate goes on, but should it?

BobRyan

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Bob, I appreciate you clarifying the issue. Were God’s commandments edited?
In Mark 7 Jesus accuses the Jews of that very thing such that as He says "thus making void the Word of God", "Setting the Commandment of God aside"...

Yet if one were to ask the Jews of Christ's day - they would insist that they were careful followers of God's Commands. Christ points out that in fact -- they weren't even though they claimed to be.
We look at the fruits. What is happening now? God in His infinite providence has given us the five day work week, and allowed it to to become ingrained in the culture. The Sabbath is not profaned.
Is it your claim that all humanity keeps the Bible Sabbath?

In every case in the NT - when the term "Sabbath" refers to a weekly day of convocation and worship - it is always the 7th day , the Bible Sabbath just as we see in Acts 13, Acts 17:1-5, Acts 18:4, Acts 15... etc
The Catholic Church celebrates the Eucharist on Sunday,
Indeed they do.
He opened the scriptures to the disciples on the road to Emaus and they recognized Him in the breaking of bread. That occurred after His resurrection, on the first day of the week, which we know as Sunday
True - but it was not a mass. And it was not a weekly gathering.
In Acts 2 - they broke bread everyday - but were not having mass every day.

"The Faith Explained" - by Leo Trese
Catholic Commentary on the Baltimore Catechism - after Vatican II.

(from "The Faith Explained" page 243

"we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day- which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...​
"The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...​
nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholics who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church”​
 
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BobRyan

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That must mean that the vast majority of humanity are living in serious sin because they only work five days a week and, even at that, only eight hours per day. The commandment is clear - you must work six days a week.
It does not say that your work is only what you do in your occupation. Nor is there any case where if someone takes a break on one of the six days - that Moses or any other person in the OT (including God Himself) accused them of Sabbath breaking.. I guess we all knew that.
 
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bbbbbbb

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It does not say that your work is only what you do in your occupation. Nor is there any case where if someone takes a break on one of the six days - that Moses or any other person in the OT (including God Himself) accused them of Sabbath breaking.. I guess we all knew that.

Then it is fine for some folks to rest every day of the week. I can go with that.
 
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BobRyan

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Then it is fine for some folks to rest every day of the week. I can go with that.
A lot of the sick and infirmed do rest during the week - but that does not make it Sabbath.

Sabbath is not only a day of rest, but a day of holy convocation Lev 23:3 and as the Sabbath commandment Ex 20:8-11 points out - it refers the one keeping it directly to the Gen 2:2-3 fact of creation week and the fact that our week is 7 days.. .not 6 days. The 7th day being a holy day set apart, sanctified for holy use in Gen 2:2-3 for Adam.
 
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bbbbbbb

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A lot of the sick and infirmed do rest during the week - but that does not make it Sabbath.

Sabbath is not only a day of rest, but a day of holy convocation Lev 23:3 and as the Sabbath commandment Ex 20:8-11 points out - it refers the one keeping it directly to the Gen 2:2-3 fact of creation week and the fact that our week is 7 days.. .not 6 days. The 7th day being a holy day set apart, sanctified for holy use in Gen 2:2-3 for Adam.
Did I say that every day of the week was Sabbath?
 
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Clare73

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Working is not just going to work- it could include doing laundry, going shopping, gardening. God gives us six days to get all our work and labors done Exo 20:9 and only asks for one day back to keep holy for a full day. Exo 20:8 He set aside one day, the seventh day Sabbath Gen 2:1-3 Exo 20:8-11, Isa 58:13 that He blessed, sanctified and made for holy use to spend time with man, because man cannot sanctify themselves, only God can Eze 20:12.
There remains, after God denied rest (Ps 95:11) to those who refused to go into Canaan, another Sabbath-rest for the people of God (Heb 4:9); for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his (Heb 4:10).

That Sabbath rest is in Jesus Christ, rest from our own work to save and in his work which saves completely.
Jesus Christ is the NT tull-time Sabbath-rest.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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There remains, after God denied rest (Ps 95:11) to those who refused to go into Canaan, another Sabbath-rest for the people of God (Heb 4:9); for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his (Heb 4:10).
God said not to edit His commandments Deut 4:2 so no interpterion can ever mean otherwise, just a false interpretation leading people to break one of the commandments of God written and spoken by God and no one is above God's works Exo 32:16

The rest in Psalms 95:11 is not referring to the Sabbath commandment every time we see "rest" does not mean the Sabbath commandment as we see in Psalms 95:11. The rest here is referring to the rest into Canaan, that God gives. We do not receive the rest in Christ when we are in rebellion to Him- there is no rebellion in Christ rest- just compliance which results in peace. Isaiah 48:18

What we do see in Hebrews 4:9 NIV which is referring to the seventh day Sabbath, is that it remains (not changed) for God's people. Heb 4:9 NIV

Those who disobey God does not enter His rest Hebrews 4:6 which is why we are not to follow the same path as the Israelites Heb 4:11 who profaned the Sabbath in the wilderness Eze 20:21 Eze 20:12 those who enter into God's rest also rest on the seventh day just as God did Hebrews 4:10 NIV Heb 4:4 and why Sabbath keeping remains for God's people. Heb 4:9 NIV
That Sabbath rest is in Jesus Christ, rest from our own work to save and in his work which saves completely.
Jesus Christ is the NT tull-time Sabbath-rest.
No scripture says this.
 
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The Catholic Mass imitates Christ. This occurred on the first day of the week soon after his resurrection. As recorded in the Gospel of Luke

15 And it came to pass, that while they talked and reasoned with themselves, Jesus himself also drawing near, went with them.

16 But their eyes were held, that they should not know him. 17 And he said to them: What are these discourses that you hold one with another as you walk, and are sad? 18 And the one of them, whose name was Cleophas, answering, said to him: Art thou only a stranger to Jerusalem, and hast not known the things that have been done there in these days? 19 To whom he said: What things? And they said: Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, who was a prophet, mighty in work and word before God and all the people; 20 And how our chief priests and princes delivered him to be condemned to death, and crucified him.

21 But we hoped, that it was he that should have redeemed Israel: and now besides all this, today is the third day since these things were done. 22 Yea and certain women also of our company affrighted us, who before it was light, were at the sepulchre, 23 And not finding his body, came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, who say that he is alive. 24 And some of our people went to the sepulchre, and found it so as the women had said, but him they found not. 25 Then he said to them: O foolish, and slow of heart to believe in all things which the prophets have spoken.

26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and so to enter into his glory? 27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded to them in all the scriptures, the things that were concerning him. 28 And they drew nigh to the town, whither they were going: and he made as though he would go farther. 29 But they constrained him; saying: Stay with us, because it is towards evening, and the day is now far spent. And he went in with them. 30 And it came to pass, whilst he was at table with them, he took bread, and blessed, and brake, and gave to them.

31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him: and he vanished out of their sight. 32 And they said one to the other: Was not our heart burning within us, whilst he spoke in this way, and opened to us the scriptures? 33 And rising up, the same hour, they went back to Jerusalem: and they found the eleven gathered together, and those that were staying with them, 34 Saying: The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon. 35 And they told what things were done in the way; and how they knew him in the breaking of the bread.



This is how the Catholic Mass is ordered. We read scripture and they are opened and expounded upon, then we recognize Our Lord in the breaking of bread, by His example on a Sunday, the day of his Resurrection, and His command that unless we eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, we have no life in us.


For you to be believed, Bob, we would have to agree that the Church went apostate early in her formation, and the promise given to the Apostles that the Church being built would be strong enough to withstand the gates of hell was false.
I have seen the SDA reject Justin Martyr and Iraneus. These are early Church fathers that fought the heresy that was taking place in the second century. All the heresies had a common element in that they broke with apostolic tradition.
The scriptures are insufficient to stand on their own and have to be opened to our understanding as shown in the Gospel of Luke quoted above. When individuals well meaning thought some are try to conform the scriptures to their own understanding, even though the Bible says to lean not to your own understanding, we get the 40,000 denominations that we have today. They can’t all be right.
What causes you to elevate your understanding of the Bible above the apostles?
You can’t say the Bible, as it is your understanding of the Bible that you preach. There are thousands of others that read the same Bible and do not come to your understanding. Are you sure that you can’t be wrong? Would you stand before God and try to use His words to trap Him, just as the scribes and Pharisees did? Or is it the wiser course to submit to God and to admit that you are not all knowing and there are things about the Bible that you do not understand, though you read them everyday?
 
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Clare73

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God said not to edit His commandments Deut 4:2 so no interpterion can ever mean otherwise, just a false interpretation leading people to break one of the commandments of God written and spoken by God and no one is above God's works Exo 32:16
The rest in Psalms 95:11 is not referring to the Sabbath commandment every time we see "rest" does not mean the Sabbath
That the writer is referring to Sabbath rest is seen in Heb 4:1-5:
"On the seventh day God rested from all his work. And again. . ."They shall never enter my rest." (Heb 4:4-5)

That he uses it interchangeably with Canaan rest is seen in Heb 4:8-9.
"If Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day.
There remains then a Sabbath-rest for the people of God." (Heb 4:8-9)

That Sabbath rest for the people of God is in gospel grace, comfort and holiness,
as well as in an eternal rest in glory.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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That te writer is referring to Sabbath rest is seen in Heb 4:1-5:
"On the seventh day God rested from all his work. And again. . ."They shall never enter my rest." (Heb 4:4-5)

That he uses it interchangeably with Canaan rest is seen in Heb 4:8-9.
"If Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day.
There remains then a Sabbath-rest for the people of God." (Heb 4:8-9)

That Sabbath rest for the people of God is in gospel grace, comfort and holiness,
as well as in an eternal rest in glory.
We do not determine context, scripture does- there is no where in Hebrews 4:1-3 that it says the Sabbath rest. You are adding to what's not there.

This is the rest it is referring to....no mention of the Sabbath.

katapausis: rest
Original Word: κατάπαυσις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: katapausis
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-ap'-ow-sis)
Definition: rest
Usage: (in the Old Testament of the rest attained by the settlement in Canaan), resting, rest, dwelling, habitation.

The only place it is referring to the Sabbath rest is Hebrews 4:4, 9, 10 which is the example God gives and we enter His rest when we ALSO rest from our works as God did from His (on the seventh day Hebrews 4:4 Sabbath Exodus 20:10) Hebrews 4:10 NIV There are two rests being referred to in Hebrews 4, not one

The Sabbath rest is not interchangeable with Christ rest as we clearly see, different rests with different meanings.

Hebrews 4:9 is referring to the Sabbath-rest which remains for God's people and the rest in this verse literally translates into Sabbath-keeping

sabbatismos: a sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Definition: a sabbath rest
Usage: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

God's people keep God's commandments, including the Sabbath commandment. God does not command Himself something that He does for us. This is a bad doctrinal teaching leading people away from God's Word and the exact opposite of what the warning in Hebrews 3-4 is about. In Christ rest there is no rebellion to Him, so one would be keeping His commandments which of course in includes the Sabbath commandment, which remains for God's people.

We will have to agree to disagree and this will get sorted out soon enough.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Likewise in Col 4:-3.
Relevance?
Suit yourself. We have free will, but Jesus does warn us not to break the least of the commandments of teach others to break Mat 5:19 which is what one is doing by the teaching that Jesus somehow became a commandment or a day, instead of being our Creator and instead of obeying Him the way He asks, and we can just ignore His written and spoken Word. Exodus 20:8-11
 
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BobRyan

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Did I say that every day of the week was Sabbath?
I hope not. But we all worship God every day of the week and I suspect we all take a break for at least some period of time every day of the week.

That does not turn every day of the week into Sabbath -- as I assume we both agree.
 
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BobRyan

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Likewise in Col 4:-3.
Relevance?
Every single reference to the Sabbath as a weekly day of rest in the NT is always to the Bible Sabbath - the 7th day as we see in Acts 13, Acts 15, Acts 17, Acts 18:4 etc.

Not one such week-day-1 example for a weekly day of worship in the NT -- like we have in the examples in the chapters listed above.

No wonder in Is 66:23 we find that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth - "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship"
 
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bbbbbbb

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I hope not. But we all worship God every day of the week and I suspect we all take a break for at least some period of time every day of the week.

That does not turn every day of the week into Sabbath -- as I assume we both agree.
Yes, we agree on that fact.
 
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Clare73

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Suit yourself. We have free will, but Jesus does warn us not to break the least of the commandments of teach others to break Mat 5:19 which is what one is doing by the teaching that Jesus somehow became a commandment or a day, instead of being our Creator and instead of obeying Him the way He asks, and we can just ignore His written and spoken Word. Exodus 20:8-11
Your disagreement is with apostolic teaching.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Your disagreement is with apostolic teaching.
Words mean nothing.... you can make any accusation you want, but its not founded on any teaching of scripture.

This is what the apostles, the followers of Jesus and Jesus taught.

1 Cor 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

James 2: 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. For He who said do not commit adultery and do not commit murder also said Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy found right in this unit of Ten. Exo 20:8-11

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” Same law the Sabbath commandment came from which defines sins

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

What is the example of the apostles who kept all of the commandments including the Sabbath as commanded by Jesus to keep everything He observed. Jesus observed the Sabbath Luke 4:16 and kept all of the commandments John 15:10 and is our example to follow. 1 John 2:6

And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
- Luke 23:56

And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
- Acts 13:42

And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
- Acts 13:44

For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
- Acts 15:21

And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.
- Acts 16:13

And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
- Acts 17:2

And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
- Acts 18:4

God's people keep God's commandments through love and faith. The unedited version given by God Himself that no man has authority to countermand.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

How do we know the Ten Commandments are God's commandments? Because God said so right in the Ten Exodus 20:6 and Jesus says so.

Mat 15:3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; which is only found in the Ten Commandments that God placed together in a unit of Ten Exo 31:18 Exo 32:16 that no man has authority to add to subtract from or tinker with because man is not above God. All we need to do is have faith and live by every Word of God. Mat 4:4
 
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Clare73

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Words mean nothing.... you can make any accusation you want, but its not founded on any teaching of scripture.

This is what the apostles, the followers of Jesus and Jesus taught.
And their NT teaching remains in Heb 4:1-9:

Sabbath rest is seen in Heb 4:1-5:
"On the seventh day God rested from all his work (Sabbath rest). And again. . ."They shall never enter my rest." (Heb 4:4-5)

That he uses it interchangeably with Canaan rest is seen in Heb 4:8-9.
"If Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day.
There remains then a Sabbath-rest for the people of God." (Heb 4:8-9)

That Sabbath rest for the people of God is in gospel grace, comfort and holiness,
as well as in an eternal rest in glory.
 
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Adventist Dissident

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And their NT teaching remains in Heb 4:1-9:

Sabbath rest is seen in Heb 4:1-5:
"On the seventh day God rested from all his work (Sabbath rest). And again. . ."They shall never enter my rest." (Heb 4:4-5)

That he uses it interchangeably with Canaan rest is seen in Heb 4:8-9.
"If Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day.
There remains then a Sabbath-rest
for the people of God." (Heb 4:8-9)

That Sabbath rest for the people of God is in gospel grace, comfort and holiness,
as well as in an eternal rest in glory.
It is also the thousand years of rest on Earth
 
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