• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

The Sabbath Day

Jon0388g

Veteran
Aug 11, 2006
1,259
29
London
✟24,167.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Single
For the sake of reminding my fellow Seventh-day Adventists, our Lord in heaven gave us this special gift:

"Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made." Genesis 2:3

He then goes on to say,

"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labour and do all yourr work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God, in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day and made it holy." Exodus 20:8-11

In these last days, let us hold fast to that blessed day which the Lord our God sanctified from the beginning, and look forward to His Second Coming, turning our eyes to Him and our backs to the sun.

Jon
 

Adventtruth

God is the Gospel!
Sep 7, 2006
1,527
40
Raliegh Durham North Carolina
✟25,683.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
For the sake of reminding my fellow Seventh-day Adventists, our Lord in heaven gave us this special gift:

"Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made." Genesis 2:3

He then goes on to say,

"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labour and do all yourr work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God, in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day and made it holy." Exodus 20:8-11

In these last days, let us hold fast to that blessed day which the Lord our God sanctified from the beginning, and look forward to His Second Coming, turning our eyes to Him and our backs to the sun.

Jon

I thnk we should includ the whole setting and context.

(Exo 19:1) In the third month, when the [glow=red]children of Israel[/glow] were gone forth out of the land of Egypt, the same day came they into the wilderness of Sinai.
(Exo 19:2) For they were departed from Rephidim, and were come to the desert of Sinai, and had pitched in the wilderness; and there Israel camped before the mount.
(Exo 19:3) And Moses went up unto God, and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying, [qlow=red]Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;[/glow]
(Exo 19:4) Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.
(Exo 19:5) Now therefore, [glow=red]if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant,[/glow] then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
(Exo 19:6) And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. [glow=red]These [/glow][glow=red]are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.[/glow]
(Exo 19:7) And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.
(Exo 19:8)[glow=red] And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.[/glow]

This is the old covenant that was made with Israel.


AT:)
 
Upvote 0
O

OntheDL

Guest
For the sake of reminding my fellow Seventh-day Adventists, our Lord in heaven gave us this special gift:

"Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made." Genesis 2:3

He then goes on to say,

"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labour and do all yourr work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God, in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day and made it holy." Exodus 20:8-11

In these last days, let us hold fast to that blessed day which the Lord our God sanctified from the beginning, and look forward to His Second Coming, turning our eyes to Him and our backs to the sun.

Jon

Can unholy man keep the sabbath holy? The transgressor of the least break all of the law.
 
Upvote 0

Adventtruth

God is the Gospel!
Sep 7, 2006
1,527
40
Raliegh Durham North Carolina
✟25,683.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Can unholy man keep the sabbath holy? The transgressor of the least break all of the law.

Well we know a unholy man can't keep it. But what about you ontheDL? The question should be can you keep it holy ontheDL? No you can't cause it finds you as a transgressor.

Look a here...here is the man who think he can keep it.

Romans 7:8-10 (KJV) 8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. 9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

Thats why we are dead to the law...The law shows you your sinful self ontheDL and condemns you to hell. That is why you have to be accounted righteous, or should I say, have anothers righteousness...and that would be Jesus.

AT:)
 
Upvote 0
O

OntheDL

Guest
Well we know a unholy man can't keep it. But what about you ontheDL? The question should be can you keep it holy ontheDL? No you can't cause it finds you as a transgressor.

Look a here...here is the man who think he can keep it.

Romans 7:8-10 (KJV) 8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. 9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

Thats why we are dead to the law...The law shows you your sinful self ontheDL and condemns you to hell. That is why you have to be accounted righteous, or should I say, have anothers righteousness...and that would be Jesus.

AT:)

This is why you are on my ignore list. Because you go beyond what's necessary all the time.

I don't read your posts I don't know if you keep the sabbath or not. But you just proved my point anyhow.
 
Upvote 0

tall73

Sophia7's husband
Site Supporter
Sep 23, 2005
32,698
6,115
Visit site
✟1,054,571.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Can unholy man keep the sabbath holy? The transgressor of the least break all of the law.

Strangely enough, the very argument that the Alexandrian 2nd century writer of the epistle of Barnabas used to say that we should not keep the Sabbath now, but the eigth day--but that we would keep the Sabbath later.
 
Upvote 0
O

OntheDL

Guest
Strangely enough, the very argument that the Alexandrian 2nd century writer of the epistle of Barnabas used to say that we should not keep the Sabbath now, but the eigth day--but that we would keep the Sabbath later.

what's funny though...Barnabas was a Jew who supposedly wrote 'we keep the eighth day'. The 'eighth day' is a Roman Catholic term for sunday. And these '4th century' manuscripts would magically appear one day in the trash bin in 1843. :confused:
 
Upvote 0

tall73

Sophia7's husband
Site Supporter
Sep 23, 2005
32,698
6,115
Visit site
✟1,054,571.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
what's funny though...Barnabas was a Jew who supposedly wrote 'we keep the eighth day'. The 'eighth day' is a Roman Catholic term for sunday. And these '4th century' manuscripts would magically appear one day in the trash bin in 1843. :confused:

A. It is highly doubtful he was "roman" catholic, given that he follows the Alexandrian School, and is quoted by Alexandrian writers. Some see an origin in Asia Minor or Palestine, etc. but I haven't seen much on a Roman origin. The church was a whole church, comprising far more than Rome at the time. Unless you admit that the papacy was the head of the church from the beginning. Now it is true that at Rome and to some degree Alexandria the Sabbath started to dissappear earlier, as Socrates Scholasticus points out in his history. But the term 8th day is not an inherently Roman phrase.

B. While found with Sinaiticus, Scholars do not date this work itself in the 4th century. It actually appears in a number of manuscripts (though this was the most complete), and is quoted by more than one patristic writer. Notice these quotes that discuss why it is dated around 130 A.D. at the latest (and I would tend to doubt the earlier dates):

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/barnabas.html

In 16:3-4, the Epistle of Barnabas says: "Furthermore he says again, 'Lo, they who destroyed this temple shall themselves build it.' That is happening now. For owing to the war it was destroyed by the enemy; at present even the servants of the enemy will build it up again." This clearly places Barnabas after the destruction of the temple in 70 CE. But it also places Barnabas before the Bar Kochba revolt in 132 CE, after which there could have been no hope that the Romans would help to rebuild the temple. This shows that the document comes from the period between these two revolts.

It must be written before its first undisputable use in Clement of Alexandria, ca. 190.



Clement, Origen and Eusibius reference it, though the last rejected it, therefore noting that it was quite early.

The Catholic Encyclopedia also notes that it makes reference to the prohibition of circumcision, thereby likely dating it around 130-131.

Also upholding this date is the rash of ant-Jewish apologies of the time, which this could be classified as.

In any case, my point is not really to dispute that Barnabas was wrong, as I clearly think he was. He was also a bit out there in general in his Scriptural interpretation.

But I was noting that the same argument was used :)

And Barnabas is a very early argument against the Sabbath and for Sunday.

Adventists have not always dealt with that fact, preferring to point to Constantine's time as the transition point. Though of course Bacchiocchi, and Andrews before him, and likely a few others, addressed the text.
 
Upvote 0

reddogs

Contributor
Site Supporter
Dec 29, 2006
9,235
512
✟559,731.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
AT, here are a part of the text from the Catholic Mirror which ran a series of articles discussing the right of the Protestant churches to worship on Sunday:


......"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy."
No Protestant living today has ever yet obeyed that command, preferring to follow the (Catholic Church)referred to than his teacher the Bible, which, from Genesis to Revelation, teaches no other doctrine, should the Israelites and Seventh-day Adventists be correct. Both sides appeal to the Bible as their "infallible" teacher. Let the Bible decide whether Saturday or Sunday be the day enjoined by God.. It resolves itself into a few plain questions easy of solution:
  • 1st. Which day of the week does the Bible enjoin to be kept holy?
  • 2nd. Has the New Testament modified by precept or practice the original command? ....
...[From the Catholic Mirror of Sept. 9, 1893]
"... we proceed to unmask one of the most flagrant errors and most unpardonable inconsistencies of the Sola Scriptura rule of faith. Lest, however, we be misunderstood, we deem it necessary to premise that Protestantism recognizes no rule of faith, no teacher, save the "infallible Bible." As the Catholic yields his judgment in spiritual matters implicitly, and with the unreserved confidence, to the voice of his church, so, too, the Protestant recognizes no teacher but the Bible. ..we will now proceed to discuss the merits of the question involved in our last issue.

Recognizing what is undeniable, the fact of a direct contradiction between the teaching and practice of Protestant Christianity -- the Seventh-day Adventists excepted -- on the one hand, and that of the Jewish people on the other, both observing different days of the week for the worship of God, we will proceed to take the testimony of the teacher common to both claimants, the Bible. The first expression with which we come in contact in the Sacred Word, is found in Genesis 2:2 "And on the seventh day He [God] rested from all His work which He had made." The next reference to this matter is to be found in Exodus 20, where God commanded the seventh day to be kept, because He had himself rested from the work of creation on that day; and the sacred text informs us that for that reason He desired it kept, in the following words; "wherefore, the Lord blessed the seventh day and sanctified it." (1) Again we read in chapter 31, verse 15: "Six days you shall do work; in the seventh day is the Sabbath, the rest holy to the Lord;" sixteenth verse: "it is an everlasting covenant," "and a perpetual sign," "for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and in the seventh He ceased from work."
(1) Of course the scriptures quoted throughout in these editorials are from the Douay, or Catholic, Version, --ED.
In the Old Testament, reference is made one hundred and twenty-six times to the Sabbath, and all these texts conspire harmoniously in voicing the will of God commanding the seventh day to be kept, because God Himself first kept it, making it obligatory on all as "a perpetual covenant." Nor can we imagine any one foolhardy enough to question the identity of Saturday with the Sabbath or seventh day, seeing that the people of Israel have been keeping the Saturday from the giving of the law, A.M. 2514 to A.D. 1893, a period of 3383 years. With the example of the Israelites before our eyes today, there is no historical fact better established than that referred to; viz., that the chosen people of God, the guardians of the Old Testament, the living representatives of the only divine religion hitherto, had for a period of 1490 years anterior to Christianity, preserved the weekly practice the living tradition of the correct interpretation of the special day of the week, Saturday, to be kept "holy to the Lord," which tradition they have extended by their own practice to an additional period of 1893 years more, thus covering the full extent of the Christian dispensation. We deem it necessary to be perfectly clear on this point, for reasons that will appear more fully hereafter. The Bible -- the Old Testament -- confirmed by the living tradition of a weekly practice for 3383 years by the chosen people of God, teaches, then, with absolute certainty, that God had, Himself, named the day to be "kept holy to Him",-- that the day was Saturday, and that any violation of that command was punishable with death. "Keep you My Sabbath, for it is holy unto you; he that shall profane it shall be put to death; he that shall do any work in it, his soul shall perish in the midst of his people." Ex 31:14.
It is impossible to realize a more severe penalty than that so solemnly uttered by God Himself in the above text, on all who violate a command referred to no less than one hundred and twenty-six times in the old law. The ten commandments of the Old Testament are formally impressed on the memory of the child of the Biblical Christian as soon as possible, but there is not one of the ten made more emphatically familiar, both in Sunday School and pulpit, than that of keeping "holy" the Sabbath day.

Having secured the absolute certainty the will of God as regards the day to be kept holy, from His Sacred Word, because He rested on that day, which day is confirmed to us by the practice of His chose people for thousands of years, we are naturally induced to inquire when and where God changed the day for His worship; for it is patent to the world that a change of day has taken place, and inasmuch as no indication of such change can be found within the pages of the Old Testament, nor in the practice of the Jewish people who continue for nearly nineteen centuries of Christianity obeying the written command, we must look to the exponent of the Christian dispensation; viz., the New Testament, for the command of God canceling the old Sabbath, Saturday.
We now approach a period covering little short of nineteen centuries, and proceed to investigate whether the supplemental divine teacher -- the New Testament -- contains a decree canceling the mandate of the old law, and, at the same time, substituting a day for the divinely instituted Sabbath of the old law, viz., Saturday; for, inasmuch as Saturday was the day kept and ordered to be kept by God, divine authority alone, under the form of a canceling decree, could abolish the Saturday covenant, and another divine mandate, appointing by name another day to be kept "holy," other than Saturday, is equally necessary to satisfy the conscience of the Christian believer. The Bible being the only teacher recognized by the Biblical Christian, the Old Testament failing to point out a change of day, and yet another day than Saturday being kept "holy" by the Biblical world, it is surely incumbent on the reformed Christian to point out in the pages of the New Testament the new divine decree repealing that of Saturday and substituting that of Sunday, kept by the Biblicals since the dawn of the Reformation. Examining the New Testament from cover to cover, critically, we find the Sabbath referred to sixty-one times. We find, too, that the Saviour invariably selected the Sabbath (Saturday) to teach in the synagogues and work miracles. The four Gospels refer to the Sabbath (Saturday) fifty-one times.
In one instance the Redeemer refers to Himself as "the Lord of the Sabbath," as mentioned by Matthew and Luke, (2) but during the whole record of His life, whilst invariably keeping and utilizing the day (Saturday), He never once hinted at a desire to change it. His apostles and personal friends afford to us a striking instance of their scrupulous observance of it after His death, and, whilst His body was yet in tomb, Luke (23:56) informs us: "And they returned and prepared spices and ointments, and rested on the sabbath day according to the commandment." "but on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came, bringing the spices they had prepared." The "spices" and "ointments" had been prepared Good Friday evening, because "the Sabbath drew near." Verse 54. This action on the part of the personal friends of the Saviour, proves beyond contradiction that after His death they kept "holy" the Saturday, and regarded the Sunday as any other day of the week. Can anything, therefore, be more conclusive than the apostles and the holy women never knew any Sabbath but Saturday, up to the day of Christ's death?
We now approach the investigation of this interesting question for the next thirty years, as narrated by the evangelist, St. Luke, in his Acts of the Apostles. Surely some vestige of the canceling act can be discovered in the practice of the Apostles during that protracted period.
(2) It is also referred to in Mark 2:28.---ED.
But, alas! we are once more doomed to disappointment. Nine (3) times do we find the Sabbath referred to in the Acts, but it is the Saturday (the old Sabbath). Should our readers desire the proof, we refer them to chapter and verse in each instance. Acts 13:14, 27, 42, 44. Once more, Acts 15:21; again, Acts 16:13; 17:2; 18:4. "And he [Paul] reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and Greeks." thus the Sabbath (Saturday) from Genesis to Revelation!!! Thus, it is impossible to find in the New Testament the slightest interference by the Saviour or his Apostles with the original Sabbath, but on the contrary, an entire acquiescence in the original arrangement; nay a plenary endorsement by Him, whilst living; and an unvaried, active participation in the keeping of that day and not other by the apostles, for thirty years after His death, as the Acts of the Apostles has abundantly testified to us.
(3) This should be eight.
Hence the conclusion is inevitable; viz., that of those who follow the Bible as their guide, the Israelites and Seventh-day Adventists have exclusive weight of evidence on their side, whilst the Biblical Protestant has not a word in self-defense for his substitution of Sunday for Saturday.......


[From the Catholic Mirror of Sept. 16, 1893.]
...Having proved to a demonstration that the Redeemer, in no instance, had, during the period of His life, deviated from the faithful observance of the Sabbath (Saturday), referred to by the four evangelists fifty-one times, although He had designated Himself "Lord of the Sabbath," He never having once, by command or practice, hinted at a desire on His part to change the day by the substitution of another and having called special attention to the conduct of the apostles and the holy women, the very evening of His death, securing beforehand spices and ointments to be used in embalming His body the morning after the Sabbath (Saturday), as St. Luke so clearly informs us (Luke 24:1), thereby placing beyond peradventure, the divine action and will of the Son of God during life by keeping the Sabbath steadfastly; and having called attention to the action of His living representatives after his death, as proved by St. Luke; having also placed before our readers the indisputable fact that the apostles for the following thirty years (Acts) never deviated from the practice of their divine Master in this particular, as St. Luke (Acts 18:4) assures us: "And he [Paul] reasoned in the synagogues every Sabbath [Saturday], and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks." The Gentile converts were, as we see from the text, equally instructed with the Jews, to keep the Saturday, having been converted to Christianity on that day, "the Jews and the Greeks" collectively.
Having also called attention to the texts of the Acts bearing on the exclusive use of the Sabbath by the Jews and Christians for thirty years after the death of the Saviour as the only day of the week observed by Christ and His apostles, which period exhausts the inspired record, we now proceed to supplement our proofs that the Sabbath (Saturday) enjoyed this exclusive privilege, by calling attention to every instance wherein the sacred record refers to the first day of the week.....
 
Upvote 0

reddogs

Contributor
Site Supporter
Dec 29, 2006
9,235
512
✟559,731.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Here is the other part:

The first reference to Sunday after the resurrection of Christ is to be found in St. Luke's Gospel, chapter 24, verses 33-40, and St. John 20:19.
The above texts themselves refer to the sole motive of this gathering of the part of the apostles. It took place on the day of the resurrection (Easter Sunday), not for the purpose of inaugurating "the new departure" from the old Sabbath (Saturday) by keeping "holy" the new day, for there is not a hint given of prayer, exhortation, or the reading of the Scriptures, but it indicates the utter demoralization of the apostles by informing mankind that they were huddled together in that room in Jerusalem "for fear of the Jews," as St. John, quoted above, plainly informs us.
The second reference to Sunday is to be found in St. John's Gospel, 20th chapter, 26th to 29th verses: And after eight days, the disciples were again within, and Thomas with them." The resurrected Redeemer availed Himself of this meeting of all the apostles to confound the incredulity of Thomas, who had been absent from the gathering on Easter Sunday evening. This would have furnished a golden opportunity to the Redeemer to change the day in the presence of all His apostles, but we state the simple fact that, on this occasion, as on Easter day, not a word is said of prayer, praise, or reading of the Scriptures.
The third instance on record, wherein the apostles were assembled on Sunday, is to be found in Acts 2:1: "The apostles were all of one accord in one place." (Feast of Pentecost -- Sunday.) Now, will this text afford to our Biblical Christian brethren a vestige of hope that Sunday substitutes, at length, Saturday? For when we inform them that the Jews had been keeping this Sunday for 1500 years, and have been keeping it for eighteen centuries after the establishment of Christianity, at the same time keeping the weekly Sabbath, there is not to be found either consolation or comfort in this text. Pentecost is the fiftieth day after the Passover, (4) which was called the Sabbath of weeks, consisting of seven times seven days; and the day after the completion of the seventh weekly Sabbath day, was the chief day of the entire festival, necessarily Sunday. What Israelite would not pity the cause that would seek to discover the origin of the keeping of the first day of the week in his festival of Pentecost, that has been kept by him yearly for over 3,000 years? Who but the Biblical Christian, driven to the wall for a pretext to excuse his sacrilegious desecration of the Sabbath, always kept by Christ and His apostles, would have resorted to the Jewish festival of Pentecost for his act of rebellion against his God and his teacher, the Bible?
Once more, the Biblical apologists for the change of day call our attention to the Acts, chapter 20, verses 6 and 7: "and upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread," etc. To all appearances, the above text should furnish some consolation to our disgruntled Biblical friends, but being Marplot, we cannot allow them even this crumb of comfort. We reply by the axiom: "Quod probat nimis, probat nihil" -- "What proves too much, proves nothing." Let us call attention to the same Acts 2:46: "And they, continuing daily in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house," etc. Who does not see at a glance that the text produced to prove the exclusive prerogative of Sunday, vanishes into thin air -- an ignis fatuus -- when placed in juxtaposition with the 46th verse of the same chapter? What Biblical Christian claims by this text for Sunday alone the same authority, St. Luke, informs us was common to every day of the week:
“And they continued daily in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house.”
(4) The Passover was always the fourteenth day of the first month, without any reference whatever to any particular day of the week, and therefore it was impossible that the Pentecost should always be "necessarily Sunday," as stated. This note is inserted merely in the interests of accuracy, and not with the intention that it should have any bearing on the controversy in the text. -- ED.
One text more presents itself, apparently leaning toward a substitution of Sunday for Saturday. It is taken from St. Paul, 1 Cor. 16:1,2: "Now concerning the collection for the saints," "On the first day of the week, let every one of you lay by him in store," etc. Presuming that the request of St. Paul had been strictly attended to, let us call attention to what had been done each Saturday during the Saviour's life and continued for thirty years after, as the book of Acts informs us.
The followers of the Master met "every Sabbath" to hear the word of God; the Scriptures were read "every Sabbath day." "And Paul, as his manner was to reason in the synagogue every Sabbath, interposing the same of the Lord Jesus Christ," etc. Acts 18:4. What more absurd conclusion that to infer that reading of the Scriptures, prayer, exhortation, and preaching, which formed the routine duties of every Saturday, as had been abundantly proved, were overslaughed by a request to take up a collection on another day of the week?
In order to appreciate fully the value of this text now under consideration, it is only needful to recall the action of the apostles and holy women on Good Friday before sundown. They brought spices and ointments after He was taken down from the cross; they suspended all action until the Sabbath "holy to the Lord" had passed, and then took steps on Sunday morning to complete the process of embalming the sacred body of Jesus.
Why, may we ask, did they not proceed to complete the work of embalming on Saturday? -- Because they knew well that the embalming of the sacred body of their Master would interfere with the strict observance of the Sabbath, the keeping of which was paramount; and until it can be shown that the Sabbath day immediately preceding the Sunday of our text had not been kept (which would be false, inasmuch as every Sabbath had been kept), the request of St. Paul to make the collection on Sunday remains to be classified with the work of the embalming of Christ's body, which could not be effected on the Sabbath, and was consequently deferred to the next convenient day; viz., Sunday, or the first day of the week.
Having disposed of every text to be found in the New Testament referring to the Sabbath (Saturday), and to the first day of the week (Sunday); and having shown conclusively from these texts, that, so far, not a shadow of pretext can be found in the Sacred Volume for the Biblical substitution of Sunday for Saturday.....


Hope that helps to better understanding.

Red
 
Upvote 0
O

OntheDL

Guest
A. It is highly doubtful he was "roman" catholic, given that he follows the Alexandrian School, and is quoted by Alexandrian writers. Some see an origin in Asia Minor or Palestine, etc. but I haven't seen much on a Roman origin. The church was a whole church, comprising far more than Rome at the time. Unless you admit that the papacy was the head of the church from the beginning. Now it is true that at Rome and to some degree Alexandria the Sabbath started to dissappear earlier, as Socrates Scholasticus points out in his history. But the term 8th day is not an inherently Roman phrase.

B. While found with Sinaiticus, Scholars do not date this work itself in the 4th century. It actually appears in a number of manuscripts (though this was the most complete), and is quoted by more than one patristic writer. Notice these quotes that discuss why it is dated around 130 A.D. at the latest (and I would tend to doubt the earlier dates):

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/barnabas.html

In 16:3-4, the Epistle of Barnabas says: "Furthermore he says again, 'Lo, they who destroyed this temple shall themselves build it.' That is happening now. For owing to the war it was destroyed by the enemy; at present even the servants of the enemy will build it up again." This clearly places Barnabas after the destruction of the temple in 70 CE. But it also places Barnabas before the Bar Kochba revolt in 132 CE, after which there could have been no hope that the Romans would help to rebuild the temple. This shows that the document comes from the period between these two revolts.

It must be written before its first undisputable use in Clement of Alexandria, ca. 190.


Clement, Origen and Eusibius reference it, though the last rejected it, therefore noting that it was quite early.

The Catholic Encyclopedia also notes that it makes reference to the prohibition of circumcision, thereby likely dating it around 130-131.

Also upholding this date is the rash of ant-Jewish apologies of the time, which this could be classified as.

In any case, my point is not really to dispute that Barnabas was wrong, as I clearly think he was. He was also a bit out there in general in his Scriptural interpretation.

But I was noting that the same argument was used :)

And Barnabas is a very early argument against the Sabbath and for Sunday.

Adventists have not always dealt with that fact, preferring to point to Constantine's time as the transition point. Though of course Bacchiocchi, and Andrews before him, and likely a few others, addressed the text.

Adventists do not teach it was Constantine who changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday. He only made Sunday a civil observence.

It was the papacy who made the transference from Saturday to Sunday. The Roman Catholic Church claims it as the proof of her authority. And the bible confirms it.

I know apostasy creeped into the early christian church particularly in Rome and Alexandria. But the christian in Judea and Antioch continued to keep the 7th day sabbath into the fifth century until they were persecuted and driven to seclusion by the papal power.

Bible and history tell us who's responsible for the change. What Bacchiocchi thinks is irrelevant. I can not accept the revisionists' view which absolves the papal responsibility on the change.

...He shall think to change times and law... Daniel 7:25.
 
Upvote 0

reddogs

Contributor
Site Supporter
Dec 29, 2006
9,235
512
✟559,731.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Here is the historical background I found:




Emperor Aurelian begins new Sun cult. (274 A.D.)
[p. 55] In 274, Aurelian … created a new cult of the “Invincible Sun.” Worshipped in a splendid temple, served by pontiffs who were raised to the level of the ancient pontiffs of Rome, celebrated every fourth year by magnificent games, Sol Invictus was definitely promoted to the highest rank in the divine hierarchy and became the official protector of the Sovereigns and of the Empire… He [Aurelian] placed in his new sanctuary the images of Bel and Helios, which he captured at Palmyra. In establishing this new State cult, Aurelian in reality proclaimed the dethronement of the old Roman idolatry and the accession of Semitic Sun-worship…​
[p. 56] This sidereal theology, founded on ancient beliefs of Chaldean astrologers, transformed in the Hellenistic age under the twofold influence of astronomic discoveries and Stoic thought, [was] promoted, after becoming a pantheistic Sun-worship, to the rank of official religion of the Roman Empire.​
Source: Franz Cumont, Astrology and Religion Among the Greeks and Romans (reprint; New York: Dover Publications, Inc., 1960), pp. 55, 56.
First Sunday Law enacted by Emperor Constantine -



March, 321 A.D.
On the venerable Day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits; because it often happens that another day is not so suitable for grain-sowing or for vine-planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost. (Given the 7th day of March, Crispus and Constantine being consuls each of them for the second time [A.D. 321].)​
Source: Codex Justinianus, lib. 3, tit. 12, 3; trans. in Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, Vol. 3 (5th ed.; New York: Scribner, 1902), p. 380, note 1.



Transition of "Day of the Sun"
[p. 122] This legislation by Constantine probably bore no relation to Christianity; it appears, on the contrary, that the emperor, in his capacity of Pontifex Maximus, was only adding the day of the Sun, the worship of which was then firmly [p. 123] established in the Roman Empire, to the other ferial days of the sacred calendar…​
[p. 270] What began, however, as a pagan ordinance, ended as a Christian regulation; and a long series of imperial decrees, during the fourth, fifth, and sixth centuries, enjoined with increasing stringency abstinence from labour on Sunday.​
Source: Hutton Webster, Rest Days, pp. 122, 123, 270. Copyright 1916 by The Macmillan Company, New York.



Pagan Festivals and Church Policy
The Church made a sacred day of Sunday … largely because it was the weekly festival of the sun; for it was a definite Christian policy to take over the pagan festivals endeared to the people by tradition, and to give them a Christian significance.​
Source: Arthur Weigall, The Paganism in Our Christianity, p. 145. Copyright 1928 by G. p. Putnam’s Sons, New York.

The most likely church for the source of this change is the Church of Rome. Here can be found the social, religious and political conditions which permitted and encouraged the abandonment of Sabbathkeeping and the adoption of Sunday worship instead.​
Predominance of Gentile Converts. Contrary to most Eastern churches, the Church of Rome was predominantly composed of Gentile converts. Paul in his Epistle to this Church explicitly affirms: "I am speaking to you Gentiles" (Romans 11:13).13 The predominant Gentile membership apparently contributed to an early Christian differentiation from the Jews in Rome. In 64 A.D., for instance, Nero placed the charge of arson exclusively on Christians, thus distinguishing them from the Jews.​
Repressive Measures. Beginning with the First Jewish Revolt against Rome (66 A.D.), various repressive measures–military, political and fiscal–were imposed upon the Jews, especially as their resurgent nationalism resulted in violent uprisings in many places outside of Palestine. Militarily, Vespasian and Titus crushed the First Jewish Revolt; and Hadrian, the Second Jewish Revolt (132-135 A.D.). Politically, Vespasian (69-79 A.D.) abolished the Sanhedrin and the office of the High Priest; later Hadrian outlawed the practice of Judaism altogether(ca. 135 A.D.). Fiscally, the Jews were subjected to a discriminatory tax (the fiscus judaicus) which was introduced by Vespasian and increased first by Domitian (81-96 A.D.) and later by Hadrian.​
Anti-Jewish Contempt. That these repressive measures were intensely experience in Rome is indicated by the contemptuous anti-Jewish literary comments of such writers as Seneca (d. 65 A.D.), Persius (34-62 A.D.), Petronius (ca. 66 A.D.), Quintillian (ca. 35-100 A.D.), Martial (ca. 40-104 A.D.), Plutarch (ca. 46-119 A.D.), Juvenal (125 A.D.) and Tacitus (ca. 55-120 A.D.), all of whom lived in Rome most of their professional lives.15 They revile the Jews racially and culturally, deriding Sabbathkeeping and circumcision as examples of Judaism’s degrading superstitions.​
The mounting hostility of the Roman populace against the Jews forced Titus, though "unwilling" (invitus), to ask the Jewess Berenice, sister of Herod the Younger, whom he wanted to marry, to leave Rome. These circumstances as well as the conflict between Jews and Christians, apparently encouraged not only the production of a whole body of anti-Jewish literature in which a "Christian" theology of contempt for the Jews was developed, but also the repudiation of characteristic Jewish customs such as Sabbath keeping.​
Measures Taken by the Church of Rome. The Church of Rome adopted concrete measures to wean Christians away from Sabbathkeeping and to encourage Sunday worship instead. Justin Martyr, for instance, writing in the mid-second century reduces the observance of the Sabbath to a temporary Mosaic ordinance which God imposed exclusively on the Jews as "a mark to single them out for punishment they so well deserve for their infidelities."16​
This kind of negative reinterpretation of the Sabbath led Christians to transform their Sabbath observance from a day of feasting, joy and religious celebration into a day of fasting, with no eucharistic celebration or religious assemblies permitted.17 The Saturday fast served not only to express sorrow for Christ’s death, but also, as emphatically stated by Pope Sylvester (314-335 A.D.), to show "contempt for the Jews" (exsecratione Judaeorum) and for their Sabbath "feasting" (destructione ciborum).18 The sadness and hunger resulting from the fast would enable Christians to avoid "appearing to observe the Sabbath with the Jews"19 and would encourage them to enter more eagerly and joyfully into the observance of Sunday.​
 
Upvote 0

djconklin

Moderate SDA
Sep 8, 2003
4,019
26
75
Visit site
✟26,806.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
This history doesn't start early enough. The early Christians started worshiping on Sunday long before A.D. 274. This is apparent from the writings of the Early Church Fathers, including Ignatius, who wrote very early in the Christian era; he was martyred in A.D. 107. Here is what he wrote to the Magnesians about the Sabbath (quoting from the shorter recension):
If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death. . . . (ch. 9)

There are major problems with the above translation. From http://www.cogwriter.com/ignatius.htm

"But is that correct?

Interestingly, like Lake and Hall/Napier, Dr. Lightfoot failed to translate Κατα, which is in the text [14] as "according to". Yet, Lightfoot did translate Κατα as "according to" in three other places in this letter (verses 3.1,10.1, 13.2 [15]). He also failed to do so in his translation of the Didache, where he began verse 14.1 with "And on" [16]--an apparently intentional and improper translation as discussed above (Lightfoot translated as "according to" five other times in the Didache [17]).

It is sad that these translators, all born in the 19th century, all decided to selectively change the meaning of a word.
While in Greece, I was able to verify that the word in koine Greek translated as “Lord’s Day” in both the Didache and the Letter to the Magnesians, κυριακήν, could not be translated as "Lord's Day" as the Greek word for day is not present in the texts nor required by the contexts for either.


In Ignatius’ Letter to the Magnesians, like in the Didache, κυριακήν would be better translated as “Lord’s way” or combined with the Greek word that follows it , ζωντες [18] , “Lord’s way of life” or “Lord’s living”. This is also consistent with what Paul wrote:
When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory (Colossians 3:4, NKJV throughout unless otherwise noted).​

Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ (1 Corinthians 11:1).​
It was the custom of Jesus (e.g. Luke 4:16) and Paul to regularly keep the Sabbath (Acts 17:2). The Sabbath was part of the Lord's way of life, and Paul imitated Christ that way. Understanding Jesus' life is critical to understanding Ignatius.

Furthermore, to better understand Ignatius' letter, we should look at more of the context and not just just separate verse 9.1. as some Sunday advocates have.


A more literal (though not grammatical) translation of the relevant portion from Ignatius’ letter appears to be,
8.1 Be not seduced by strange doctrines nor by antiquated fables, which are profitless.​

8.2 For if even unto this day we live according to the manner of Judaic concepts, we admit that we have not received grace: for the godly prophets lived after Christ Jesus. For this cause also they were persecuted, being inspired by His grace to the end that they which are disobedient might be fully persuaded that there is one God who manifested Himself through Jesus Christ His Son, who is His Word that proceeded from silence, who in all things was well-pleasing unto Him that sent Him.​

9.1 If then those who had walked in ancient practices attained unto newness of hope, no longer keeping sabbaths contrariwise according to the Lord's way of life, on which our life also arose through Him and through His death which some men deny – a mystery whereby we attained unto belief, and for this cause we endure patiently, that we may be found disciples of Jesus Christ our only teacher –​

9.2 if this be so, how shall we be able to live apart from Him? Seeing that even the prophets, being His disciples, were expecting Him as their teacher through the Spirit. And for this cause He whom they rightly awaited, when He came, raised them from the dead.​
 
Upvote 0

djconklin

Moderate SDA
Sep 8, 2003
4,019
26
75
Visit site
✟26,806.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
part two of above:

"According to a scholar of koine Greek who I consulted with (a non-Sabbathkeeper), the first portion of 9.1 would grammatically be better translated as:
“If then those who had walked in ancient practices attained unto newness of hope, no longer {Judaically} keeping sabbaths but according to the Lord's way of life…”​
This is because she insisted that the term ‘but’ (or ‘contrariwise’ as translated earlier above) had to refer to the "Lord’s way" instead of the Sabbath.
There are at least two reasons for this. The first is that the godly prophets had been keeping the seventh day Sabbath. And the second is since the portion of the Greek term translated as the first part of “no longer” is a ‘qualified negative’ [19] the context supports that the ‘Judaic concepts’ (verse 8.2) are part of the qualification. It may be of interest to note that the terms first, day, or Sun are not in the above passages.
She confirmed with me that this section is certainly speaking about the same ancient prophets throughout, hence since they actually kept the Sabbath (and not Sunday), she felt that the idea of Judaically would have had to been in Ignatius’ mind. And that this type of reference was required in English to properly understand what Ignatius was writing (and I also had this confirmed by two others with a working knowledge of koine Greek).

This assessment is also consistent with later testimony from Jerome who mentioned that the Sabbath-keeping Christians he ran into did not adhere to the Jewish traditions--in other words, although they kept the Sabbath, the Nazarenes did not keep the Sabbath Judaically:
Jerome declares:
"On Isaiah 9:1-4​

"The Nazarenes, whose opinion I have set forth above, try to explain this passage in the following way: When Christ came and his preaching shone out, the land of Zebulon and Naphtali [the region of Galilee] first of all were freed from the errors of the Scribes and Pharisees and he shook off their shoulders the very heavy yoke of the JEWISH TRADITIONS. Later, however, the preaching became more dominant, that means the preaching was multiplied, through the gospel of the apostle Paul who was the last of all the apostles. And the gospel of Christ shone to the most distant tribes and the way of the whole sea. Finally the whole world, which earlier walked or sat in darkness and was imprisoned in the bonds of idolatry and death, has seen the clear light of the gospel" (p.64).​
In this passage, we find that the Nazarene Christians -- like Yeshua the Messiah, Peter, James, John and especially Paul -- rejected Jewish traditionalism, invention, and additions to the Torah or Old Testament. They referred to them as the "very heavy yoke of the Jewish traditions." [20].

Thus, instead of proving Sunday and disproving the Sabbath, Ignatius (and indirectly even Jerome) seems to be warning against incorrectly observing the Sabbath as certain Pharisaical Jews insisted, with their antiquated fables. Or in other words, Ignatius was condemning the observance of traditions of men over the Bible."
 
Upvote 0

reddogs

Contributor
Site Supporter
Dec 29, 2006
9,235
512
✟559,731.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Yes, Paul saw the false docrines from the eastern religions creaping in even while he was alive and tried to warn the church I'll look his warning up, here's the other part of that first post:

Sun Worship and Sunday. The influence of sun worship with its "Sun-day" provides the most plausible explanation. The cult of Sol Invictus–the Invincible Sun–as shown by Gaston H. Halsberghe, became "dominant in Rome and in other parts of the Empire from the early part of the second century A.D."30​
We know that the Roman sun-cults influenced Christian thought and liturgy. The Church Fathers’ frequently rebuke Christians for venerating the sun.31 In early Christian art and literature, the sun is often used as a symbol to represent Christ.32 The orientation of early Christian churches was changed; instead of facing Jerusalem like synagogues, churches were orientated to the East.33 The dies natalis solis Invicti (the birthday of the Invincible Sun) was chosen as the Christian Christmas.​
The Advancement of the Day of the Sun. A second century change in the Roman calendar also suggests that Sun worship influenced the Christian adoption of Sunday as the new day of worship. The seven day week was first adopted by the Roman Empire in the first century A.D. At that time the days of the week were named after the planets (as they still are). Saturn’s day (Saturday) was originally the first day of the week, followed by Sun’s day. Under the influence of the Sun worship, however, a change occurred in the second century: The Sun’s day (Sunday) was advanced from the position of second day of the week to that of first and most important day of the week.34 This required each of the other days to be advanced one day, and Saturn’s day thereby became the seventh day of the week for the Romans, as it had been for the Jews and Christians.​
The advancement of the day of the sun to the first and most important day of the week presumably influenced Roman Christians with a pagan background to adopt and adapt the Sun’s day for their Christian worship. This would serve to emphasize to non-Christian Romans the Christian similarity to Roman practices and the dissimilarity to Jewish customs. All of this supports–if only indirectly–the suggestion that Sunday was chosen for Christian worship because it was the Sun’s day.​
A more direct indication is provided by the use of the sun as a symbol to justify the actual observance of Sunday. The motifs of light and of the sun are frequently invoked by the Church Fathers to develop a theological justification for Sunday worship. God’s creation of light on the first day and the resurrection of the Sun of Justice which occurred on the same day coincided with the day of the sun. Jerome, to cite only one example, explains: "If it is called the day of the sun by the pagans, we most willingly acknowledge it as such, since it is on this day that the light of the world appeared and on this day the Sun of Justice has risen."35​
The day of the Sun, then, may well have been viewed by Christians familiar with its veneration, as a providential and valid substitution for the seventh day sabbath, since the substitution could well explain Biblical mysteries to the pagan mind by means of effective and familiar symbols.36​
Conclusion. Both anti-Judaism and Sun-worship contributed to the change from Sabbath to Sunday. Anti-Judaism led many Christians to abandon the observance of the Sabbath to differentiate themselves from the Jews at a time when Judaism in general and Sabbathkeeping in particular were outlawed in the Roman empire. Sun-worship influenced the adoption of the observance of Sunday to facilitate the Christian identification and integration with the customs and cycles of the Roman empire.​
The change from Sabbath to Sunday was not simply one of names or numbers, but of authority, meaning and experience. It was a change from a holy day divinely established to enable us to experience more freely and more fully the awareness of divine presence and peace in our lives, into holiday which has become an occasion to seek for personal pleasure and profit. This historical change has greatly affected the quality of Christian life of countless Christians who throughout the centuries have been deprived of the physical, moral and spiritual renewal the Sabbath is designed to provide.​
HOW IT CAME ABOUT:FROM SABBATH
TO SUNDAY ?
Samuele Bacchiocchi, Ph. D., Andrews University​
 
Upvote 0