The Rule of Scripture ("Sola Scriptura" as Luther and Calvin called it)

[razeontherock]

In Matthew 18, Jesus gives the Apostles (plural) the power of 'binding and loosing.' I do not deny that.

However, in Matthew 16, Jesus speaks to Peter (singular) and promises him the keys. I do not see Jesus promising the keys to anyone else.

Falso dichoto ... nm

 

[razeontherock]

I believe Peter is preeminate as an example both good & bad among apostles, but not preeiminate as an authority figure.

Good thing too:

smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered (Zech 13:7)

 

[Rick Otto]

quote=ivebeenshown;Alright.
Why don't you believe we can measure spiritual truths by consulting the teachers God appointed?

We can learn from & study with them, but they are not themselves scripture.

Isaiah prophesied a promise from God, that our teachers would not be hidden from us, that we would see them with our eyes, and we would hear a voice telling us 'this is the Way, walk in it.' It is in the thirtieth chapter of the book of Isaiah.

It is written.
The Holy Spirit & the inspired words of God are not hidden. A little obscured, but nothing due diligence can't handle.

I believe that we Christians are children of God and that God followed through on his promises.

Me too, as I understand them.

How can you say that our Lord does that when the Word of God says that we are to submit to our leaders because they give account of our soul?

It's right there in Luke. I'm not saying don't submit to your leaders, I'm saying be more careful who you choose to follow.

The Apostles were leaders in their day, and they appointed others.

Who is appointed as your apostle? How many apostles are currently serving the RCC?

 

[ivebeenshown]

Jesus iterates the powers right after figuratively giving the figurative keys.

In the sixteenth chapter of the book of Matthew, Jesus says to Peter "I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven andwhatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Jesus tells Peter three clauses, which I have individually underlined. Why should we interpret the binding and the loosing as being powers of the keys?

John3:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
[32] And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

If being free means being in the kingdom, the gospel truths are the keys into it.

The truth will make us free from sin. Being free from sin, we will be free to enter the Kingdom. Nothing with sin may enter the Kingdom. Paul wrote to the Galatians:

"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these... seditions, heresies... they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

And in the Apocalypse of John:

"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."

"And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life."

 

[ivebeenshown]

Falso dichoto ... nm

There is no "either, or" presented, so 'false dichotomy' does not apply.

 

[razeontherock]

In Matthew 18, Jesus gives the Apostles (plural) the power of 'binding and loosing.' I do not deny that.

However, in Matthew 16, Jesus speaks to Peter (singular) and promises him the keys. I do not see Jesus promising the keys to anyone else.

Yes, that is an either scenario. I'm saying the one is defined by the other, so they are not separate. It's in the text.

 

[ivebeenshown]

Yes, that is an either scenario. I'm saying the one is defined by the other, so they are not separate. It's in the text.

I did not use an either/or argument. I said that I do not see Jesus promising the keys to anyone but Peter.

 

[Rick Otto]

quote=ivebeenshown; In the sixteenth chapter of the book of Matthew, Jesus says to Peter "I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven andwhatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Jesus tells Peter three clauses, which I have individually underlined. Why should we interpret the binding and the loosing as being powers of the keys?

It would be difficult to imagine that He is changing subjects mid-sentence. It would cause conversational whiplash.

The truth will make us free from sin.

Like a key unlocking a chain...

 

[razeontherock]

@ post # 627 Either he defined the keys as binding and loosing, or He did not. If they are one and the same, they are not separate.

 

[ARBITER01]

In Matthew 18, Jesus gives the Apostles (plural) the power of 'binding and loosing.' I do not deny that.

However, in Matthew 16, Jesus speaks to Peter (singular) and promises him the keys. I do not see Jesus promising the keys to anyone else.

Well we are back to square one then again, show me an event that singled out this happening to Peter if you wish to assert this idea of yours.

Just reiterating yourself over and over on this doesn't make your words truth if you are unable to find additional relevance in scripture on this. Let your words be established by two or more witnesses, as it is written.

 

[razeontherock]

Killjoy. Adhering to Scriptural principle, the noive a some people!

 

[ivebeenshown]

Well we are back to square one then again, show me an event that singled out this happening to Peter if you wish to assert this idea of yours.

Jesus gave the keys to Peter in the sixteenth chapter of Matthew, verses 17-19.

"Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Do you deny that Jesus told Peter "I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven"?

Just reiterating yourself over and over on this doesn't make your words truth if you are unable to find additional relevance in scripture on this.

Do you deny that Jesus told Peter "I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven"? Or do you believe it? Please answer me in charity.

Let your words be established by two or more witnesses, as it is written.

Why must God's Word say something more than once before we can accept it?

 

[ARBITER01]

Killjoy. Adhering to Scriptural principle, the noive a some people!

Quite the novel idea huh?

 

[ivebeenshown]

It would be difficult to imagine that He is changing subjects mid-sentence. It would cause conversational whiplash.

You can suppose these things, but Jesus does not clearly define binding and loosing as powers of the keys. The grammar of the passage does not necessitate such a notion.

Like a key unlocking a chain...

Why should we believe that being free from sin is equivalent to entering the kingdom of heaven?

 

[razeontherock]

Why must God's Word say something more than once before we can accept it?

It's a Scriptural principle, established by Moses, and confirmed by our Lord. If we find something only in one place, we have imposed our own will upon the text. If the intent is actually there, we will find it elsewhere as well. And I have found that if G-d really means what we're thinking, there will also be a third Scriptural witness, even if that one is veiled.

 

[razeontherock]

Why should we believe that being free from sin is equivalent to entering the kingdom of heaven?

Give that one some thought

 

[ARBITER01]

Do you deny that Jesus told Peter "I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven"?

Do you deny that Jesus told Peter "I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven"? Or do you believe it? Please answer me in charity.

The issue here is your declaration that Peter received these keys "alone" as in, no one else did.

Why must God's Word say something more than once before we can accept it?

I didn't set the standard for us, GOD did.

Are people just to accept your personal ideas as fact when you can't present them correctly taught within various places in scripture? Being able to rightly divide the word is an indication of Spiritual maturity.

 

[ivebeenshown]

The issue here is your declaration that Peter received these keys "alone" as in, no one else did.

Well, if I am wrong in declaring such, please show me where Jesus promises the keys to anyone else. If you were charitable, and wanted me to know the truth, you would show it to me.

I didn't set the standard for us, GOD did. Are people just to accept your personal ideas as fact when you can't present them correctly taught within various places in scripture?

The Word of God says that Jesus promised the keys to Peter. I see no reason from Scripture to believe that Jesus promised them to anyone else. If you have a reason, please show me.

Being able to rightly divide the word is an indication of Spiritual maturity.

The attitude and manner in which we communicate to each other is also an indication of Spiritual maturity.

 

[ivebeenshown]

It's a Scriptural principle, established by Moses, and confirmed by our Lord. If we find something only in one place, we have imposed our own will upon the text. If the intent is actually there, we will find it elsewhere as well. And I have found that if G-d really means what we're thinking, there will also be a third Scriptural witness, even if that one is veiled.

If the Word of God says "the sky is blue", then the sky is blue, regardless of how many times it is found in the Word of God. The Word of God records Jesus promising the keys of the kingdom of heaven to Peter.

 

[ARBITER01]

Well, if I am wrong in declaring such, please show me where Jesus promises the keys to anyone else. If you were charitable, and wanted me to know the truth, you would show it to me.

The Word of God says that Jesus promised the keys to Peter. I see no reason from Scripture to believe that Jesus promised them to anyone else. If you have a reason, please show me.

The attitude and manner in which we communicate to each other is also an indication of Spiritual maturity.

No, the way this works in Christianity is, you first present an idea, then you back that idea with 2 or more places in scripture. That is rightly dividing the word of GOD.

You don't try to require me to prove your case for you. I'm surprised that you are even bringing that to me as a suggestion.