The Rule of faith and practice is not scripture "alone"

[WarriorAngel]

No, it’s only by the Spirit and revelation and consider these verses to understand

1 Corinthians 2: 11. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. ..14. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.”

1 John 2: 20. But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things…27. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.”

But you lack in acknowledging HE is powerful enough to carry His same Church throughout all time, without it being changed 1500 + years later.

Quote the canon all you like, the Church decided it. You're just borrowing that choice.

 

[LoveofTruth]

But you lack in acknowledging HE is powerful enough to carry His same Church throughout all time, without it being changed 1500 + years later.

Quote the canon all you like, the Church decided it. You're just borrowing that choice.

I show you scripture to correct things and you act as if you can ignore it???

And I am the one showing God’s order for the church further back than you go. I go to the scriptures and quote men like Jesus, Paul , Peter, John etc. But you go beyond that which is written and quote so called “church fathers”. And that is when the church started to change. Paul was a wise master builder and God gave him the order others also in Christ walked in that order for the churches and this order was the same in all the churches. The things Paul wrote were for all the churches and they were the commandments of the Lord for all if any are ignorant or ignore those things, they are also ignorant and will be ignored as God said through Paul.

Consider,

1 Corinthians 14: 37. If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 38. But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.”

1 Corinthians 4: 17. For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.”

I speak of this order from the beginning of the church.

 

[WarriorAngel]

I show you scripture to correct things and you act as if you can ignore it???

And I am the one showing God’s order for the church further back than you go. I go to the scriptures and quote men like Jesus, Paul , Peter, John etc. But you go beyond that which is written and quote so called “church fathers”. And that is when the church started to change. Paul was a wise master builder and God gave him the order others also in Christ walked in that order for the churches and this order was the same in all the churches. The things Paul write were for all the churches and they were the commandments of the Lord for all if any are ignorant or ignore those things they are also ignorant and will be ignored as Gid said through Paul.

Consider,

1 Corinthians 14: 37. If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 38. But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.”

1 Corinthians 4: 17. For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.”

I speak of this order from the beginning of the church.

I have the Church the Lord set up, I have historical fathers henceforth explaining them.
I do not follow exegesis of 2024.

Interesting to NOTE you just posted verses of St Paul again reiterating to Timothy, [who was ordained] to follow the teachings - oral - to remember them because well, obviously THE LORD WILL bring you into REMEBERENCE because HE DID NOT in fact write them down.

Over 2000 years of writings of the same Traditions.

Now here is something, despite any schisms, the Church all have a base of those similar Traditions. Protestants do not have those bases.
They have exegesis...

Did you ever wonder why the Church the Lord set up is being protested?
Isn't that a form of distrusting His power?

 

[LoveofTruth]

I have the Church the Lord set up, I have historical fathers henceforth explaining them.
I do not follow exegesis of 2024.

Interesting to NOTE you just posted verses of St Paul again reiterating to Timothy, [who was ordained] to follow the teachings - oral - to remember them because well, obviously THE LORD WILL bring you into REMEBERENCE because HE DID NOT in fact write them down.

Over 2000 years of writings of the same Traditions.

Now here is something, despite any schisms, the Church all have a base of those similar Traditions. Protestants do not have those bases.
They have exegesis...

Did you ever wonder why the Church the Lord set up is being protested?
Isn't that a form of distrusting His power?

What Paul taught, everywhere and in every church and this order of God for the churches we have the evidence of this all through scripture .

And the traditions handed to them are found in scripture also, not later traditions that make another gospel and deny the death of Christ and his burial and resurrection for salvation, like Scapulars to save from hell fire by just wearing them , or sacraments or the real presence or water baptism for salvation. Or going to Mary (so called) instead of Jesus etc etc .

 

[WarriorAngel]

What Paul taught, everywhere and in every church and this order of God for the churches we have the evidence of this all through scripture .

And the traditions handed to them are found in scripture also, not later traditions that make another gospel and deny the death of Christ and his burial abd resurrection for salvation, like Scapulars to save from hell fire by just wearing them , or sacraments or the real presence or water baptism for salvation. Or going to Mary (so called) instead of Jesus etc etc .

Indeed, if you have the original teachings of the meaning of scriptures, which had been numerously expounded in the writings through time of the fathers, then you would understand.

But St John said, not everything was written.
No where do they write the 40 days of teaching after He rose again.

Do you think:

1. The Lord did not know people would walk away from His Church, and so St Peter warned people not to take it upon themselves to wrest anything?

2. Do you not understand nobody can change or top what the Lord already established?

3. Do you not know, the chosen canon [OT and NT] were chosen by the Church and the Pope, and as such, how do you proclaim to know what is meant when you completely argue with the Church who is protector of their canon?

 

[LoveofTruth]

I have the Church the Lord set up,

No you don’t. I could show you from scripture what the early church was and the order they had (all seen in scripture) and you would see how different your church is from this. Just body ministry in homes as they had a full meal together and all could wait on the Lord for ministry and plurality of male, humble, elders watching over us is soo different from the church of today many are in. With thier large castle like structures instead of meeting in homes and exalted men over all no body ministry or gifts (1 Cor. 14:26-37, 1 Peter 4:20-11) instead of plural elders and body ministering in Christ as He works in all (Ephesians 4:15,16)

Did you ever wonder why the Church the Lord set up is being protested?
Isn't that a form of distrusting His power?

Paul said he protested some who went away from God’s order and truth

1 Corinthians 15: 31. I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.”

Paul would “protest” many things today as well and especially in the Catholic Church and other religious forms.

 

[WarriorAngel]

No you don’t. I could show you from scripture what the early church was and the order they had (all seen in scripture) and you would see how different your church is from this. Just body ministry in homes as they had a full meal together and all could wait on the Lord for ministry abd plurality of make humble elders watching over us soo different from the church of today many are in. With thier large castle like structures instead of meeting in homes and exalted men over all no body ministry or gifts (1 Cor. 14:26-37, 1 Peter 4:20-11) instead of plural elders and body ministering in Christ as He works in all (Ephesians 4:15,16)

Paul said he protested sone who went away from Gods order and truth

1 Corinthians 15: 31. I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.”

Paul would protest many things today as well and especially in the Catholic Church and other religious forms.

So Paul left the Apostles and created his own Church?

Is that what you are saying now?

 

[WarriorAngel]

One Church is not plural.

And if you say that Church is in error now, you defy the faith that the Lord Who created, so it can be faulted.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Indeed, if you have the original teachings of the meaning of scriptures

All scripture is given by inspiration of God and preserved by him and the only way to understand scripture is to be in the rule of the Spirit and revelation of all things by God.

, which had been numerously expounded in the writings through time of the fathers, then you would understand.

I do not put the so called “fathers” above that which is written in scripture. And Jesus said to call no man father for a good reason, perhaps this is one of them.

But St John said, not everything was written.
No where do they write the 40 days of teaching after He rose again.

Yes. But we have the Spirit the anointing to teach all things and the body and scriptures that are to furnish through faith all things needed.

God still speaks to all His children.

Do you think:

1. The Lord did not know people would walk away from His Church, and so St Peter warned people not to take it upon themselves to wrest anything?

Paul warned about men rising up drawing away disciples after themselves (Acts20) We see this with many exalted men who Lord over the church who wear long robes and called “master, father, pope”, etc

2. Do you not understand nobody can change or top what the Lord already established?

That is established in every believer as he works effectually on the body to the edifying of itself in love (Ephesians 4:25,16) and he has shown the order in scripture, as understood in Christ alone, as we walk in the Spirit and revelation of God.

Otherwise, none can understand the scriptures unless they are in the first rule of living in Christ and walking in the Spirit.

3. Do you not know, the chosen canon [OT and NT] were chosen by the Church and the Pope, and as such, how do you proclaim to know what is meant when you completely argue with the Church who is protector of their canon?

No, holy men of God wrote scripture as they were inspired by the Spirit and God watched over it and preserved it . Even in OT times the Levites wrote scripture copies and yet even if they were saved or not God watched over it.

You speak things here that are not accurate

And all believers can know all things by the anointing which teaches all things and this is by the Spirit and revelation as I showed already,

Consider carefully here,

1 John 2: 27. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.”

And read 1 Cor 2:11,12, 14,15 again in prayer.

 

[LoveofTruth]

So Paul left the Apostles and created his own Church?

Is that what you are saying now?

No, not at all Paul was called the apostle of the Gentiles and Peter went primarily to the Jews read Galatians 2

 

[LoveofTruth]

One Church is not plural.

And if you say that Church is in error now, you defy the faith that the Lord Who created, so it can be faulted.

There is one body of Christ worldwide one church in the sense of Christ is the head of the church. But we read of many churches all over.

And the Roman Church was just one of the churches. But the believers who were in the times of Constantine and the changing of church order in Rome under a different head than Christ did not follow those. During this time many in the church joined or married with the world and false doctrines and confusion.

God has always had his church even if many are in error or have gone away from the truth. They are to come out of all error and out of mystery Bablyon.

Even as in the past, with the Jews, when many bowed down to the idol, God had reserved 7000 to himself.

God always has a remnant in all times:

To try and put the Roman Catholic church above all the rest is not right and there are many who withdrew from those who do not walk in the truth as believers are told to do in scripture.

2 Thessalonians 3: 6. Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.”

These traditions are not what modern day men make them in many cases. The traditions are found often in scripture. We see the tradition they did.

And told to the Roman believers of the past to mark those who go against the doctrine they learned.

Romans 16: 17. Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.”

Revelation 18: 4. And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.”

Some of God’s people are in this falsehood.

 

[LoveofTruth]

I couldn't find a single commentator that agrees with your bizarre view of Romans 10.

I showed many.

But it is clear that God is the divine preacher. Read any of the prophets, The word of God came to them and they spoke. God was speaking in them and through them first person many times. Gods would say to the people direct words from himself. And speak to them directly even though the preacher was speaking.

We also read that the gospel was preached before unto Abraham.

God soo often preaches directly and through me . But he also speaks to the hearts of all men if they hear and come to the light.

"Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly. 21 Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the LORD. 22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life: 23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

 

[th1bill]

I showed many.

But it is clear that God is the divine preacher. Read any of the prophets, The word of God came to them and they spoke. God was speaking in them and through them first person many times. Gods would say to the people direct words from himself. And speak to them directly even though the preacher was speaking.

We also read that the gospel was preached before unto Abraham.

God soo often preaches directly and through me . But he also speaks to the hearts of all men if they hear and come to the light.

"Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly. 21 Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the LORD. 22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life: 23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

I recall this passage but most will not because you did not give the name of the book nor the chapter. My Pastor and Teachers always make it clear from whince they preach.

 

[th1bill]

There is one body of Christ worldwide one church in the sense of Christ is the head of the church. But we read of many churches all over.

And the Roman Church was just one of the churches. But the believers who were in the times of Constantine and the changing of church order in Rome under a different head than Christ did not follow those. During this time many in the church joined or married with the world and false doctrines and confusion.

God has always had his church even if many are in error or have gone away from the truth. They are to come out of all error and out of mystery Bablyon.

Even as in the past, with the Jews, when many bowed down to the idol, God had reserved 7000 to himself.

God always has a remnant in all times:

To try and put the Roman Catholic church above all the rest is not right and there are many who withdrew from those who do not walk in the truth as believers are told to do in scripture.

2 Thessalonians 3: 6. Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.”

These traditions are not what modern day men make them in many cases. The traditions are found often in scripture. We see the tradition they did.

And told to the Roman believers of the past to mark those who go against the doctrine they learned.

Romans 16: 17. Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.”

Revelation 18: 4. And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.”

Some of God’s people are in this falsehood.

You are right but there are so very many false teachers that call themselves "The Church" until it is becoming quite difficult to Fellowship because of Satan's presence in the Pulpits.

 

[LoveofTruth]

You are right but there are so very many false teachers that call themselves "The Church" until it is becoming quite difficult to Fellowship because of Satan's presence in the Pulpits.

Yes, and one of the dangers is if men go away from the body ministry to one another as Christ works in every part (Ephesians 4:15,16) as the head of the church and they instead set up a one man pastor over the church who controls and dominates over all. We do not find a one man pastor over a. Church in the New Testament. This allows the devil to affect the one man over all and to control all the body. In the multitude of counsel there is safety. And God’s way for oversight has always been a plurality of elders in every church (Acts 24:23, James 5:14) If all the body is walking in the rule of Christ working in them in the new creation then all can edify one another .

Believers are commanded to edify one another, where all can share and use thier gifts, but today the spirit is so often quenched .

Consider,

1 Corinthians 14: 26. How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, everyone of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying… 29. Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. 30. If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. 31. For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. 32. And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33. For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints…. 37. If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 38. But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.”

Ephesians 4: 15. But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16. From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.”

1 Peter 4: 10. As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God. 11. If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.”

 

[LoveofTruth]

I recall this passage but most will not because you did not give the name of the book nor the chapter. My Pastor and Teachers always make it clear from whince they preach.

Ezekiel 13:20-23

 

[th1bill]

Yes, and one of the dangers is if men go away from the body ministry to one another as Christ works in every part (Ephesians 4:15,16) as the head of the church and they instead set up a one man pastor over the church who controls and dominates over all. We do not find a one man pastor over a. Church in the New Testament. This allows the devil to affect the one man over all and to control all the body. In the multitude of counsel there is safety. And God’s way for oversight has always been a plurality of elders in every church (Acts 24:23, James 5:14) If all the body is walking in the rule of Christ working in them in the new creation then all can edify one another .

Believers are commanded to edify one another, where all can share and use thier gifts, but today the spirit is so often quenched .

Consider,

1 Corinthians 14: 26. How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, everyone of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying… 29. Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. 30. If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. 31. For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. 32. And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33. For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints…. 37. If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 38. But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.”

Ephesians 4: 15. But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16. From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.”

1 Peter 4: 10. As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God. 11. If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.”

I find it sad when people disagree and cannot agree to just let it be resulting in a split of any kind. I feel like, if the truth were known, it is possible to likely the ofended and moving party either has not concurred the pride they carry or they have not fully submitted to the leading of the Ruah and possibly, worst of all, are a Pew Whale and has never known Yashuah. Many attending local services are members of a church but are not members of The Church.

 

[LoveofTruth]

I find it sad when people disagree and cannot agree to just let it be resulting in a split of any kind. I feel like, if the truth were known, it is possible to likely the ofended and moving party either has not concurred the pride they carry or they have not fully submitted to the leading of the Ruah and possibly, worst of all, are a Pew Whale and has never known Yashuah. Many attending local services are members of a church but are not members of The Church.

Yes, and sadly the pride I have met with is like Diotrephes in 3rd John who loved to have the preeminence over others we are warned of these type of men who are like a single leader controlling lording over all of which many scriptures warn against them. But sadly so many love to have them Lord over all, no matter what scriptures says.

Consider;

3 John 1: 9. I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not. 10. Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church. 11. Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.”

Acts 20: 29. For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 31. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.”

Colossians 2: 8. Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:”

2 Corinthians 11: 12. But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. 13. For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works…,18. Seeing that many glory after the flesh, I will glory also. 19. For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye yourselves are wise. 20. For ye suffer, if a man bring you into bondage, if a man devour you, if a man take of you, if a man exalt himself, if a man smite you on the face.”

 

[LoveofTruth]

But you lack in acknowledging HE is powerful enough to carry His same Church throughout all time, without it being changed 1500 + years later.

The body of Christ has Christ in every believer. This has not changed. But as we see in the churches, there are always many doctrinal issues to correct and teach. And most of the letters were corrective in nature.

And that doesn't mean that many of the so called "denominations" today are correct, and that they are all walking in the light". God always has his believers all over. The church is and always has been continuing. But the so called churches of many today do not always line up with God's order and teachings. This would still not mean that the entire church is defeated by the devil. God forbid. Just as many believers can still be saved and have some error and confusion and be tempted etc. they still are believers.

I think some thing that if believers have problems or error etc that maybe they are not prevailing against the devil and the church is not being "carried" by God. This is a false understanding. Christ dwells int he heart by faith and when Christ is formed in a believer this has never changed, the way this is done and the life believers have in the "church" which is his body.

Peter didn't understand that he was to go to the gentiles with Cornelius until God gave him a revelation and vision, even though he told him to do so in Matthew 28. This does not mean that peter was defeated by the devil.

Quote the canon all you like, the Church decided it.

You mean like men like Paul, Peter, John etc. Even they didn't attribute deciding the scripture for or by themselves. We read

“If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.”(1 Corinthians 14:37 KJV(

I also would encourage all to consider tis verse

2 Timothy 2:15​

“Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”

You're just borrowing that choice.

No, I read the scriptures given by God through men like Paul and peter and John and others.

 

[Valletta]

But the believers who were in the times of Constantine and the changing of church order in Rome under a different head than Christ did not follow those. During this time many in the church joined or married with the world and false doctrines and confusion.

Incorrect, you don't seem to have a grasp of history in regard to the Catholic Church--there was no sudden change in Catholic practices during the time of Constantine. The Catholic Church was getting closer and closer to the final selection of the 73 books of the Bible during the reign of Constantine, and the canon was eventually finalized at the end of the century. The priesthood continued on and the mass continued on. Now what did change is that Christians were no longer persecuted and could worship in public. The Catholic Church decided to build churches, there was a hesitation of ten to twenty years before for the building of most churches, thought was put into the structure, and it was decided Catholic churches should be ornate on the inside as a proper house for God.