The Rule of faith and practice is not scripture "alone"

[fhansen]

So, we can admit that the words on the back of such a thing called a “scapular” are extremely false and a lie and another gospel? And that wearing such a thing is to deny the finished work of Christ and to proclaim to the world that Christ died ion vain if you wear it at all? And that the lie that is said on the back of it about escaping eternal flames by wearing it(which many popes and millions of Catholics do) is totally false and another gospel and should be stopped immediately and repented of and millions of Catholics should be warned? And that wearing such a thing with the inscription on it is dangerous spiritually for all?

That’s a start if you agree here.That is just the start of the many things to be exposed.

Of course I agree that wearing a little trinket will not bring one anything except possibly a skin rash. OTOH, the finished work of Jesus means nothing if we don't grab hold of the life He's made possible for us and live it, as set apart from the rest of world, which is what the original folks were doing by donning a different set of robes. Wearing such a thing without that intention and believing it will magically help you in some manner is silly, foolish, superstitious, spiritually dangerous, and unCatholic.

 

[Valletta]

So, we can admit that the words on the back of such a thing called a “scapular” are extremely false and a lie and another gospel? And that wearing such a thing is to deny the finished work of Christ and to proclaim to the world that Christ died ion vain if you wear it at all? And that the lie that is said on the back of it about escaping eternal flames by wearing it(which many popes and millions of Catholics do) is totally false and another gospel and should be stopped immediately and repented of and millions of Catholics should be warned? And that wearing such a thing with the inscription on it is dangerous spiritually for all?

That’s a start if you agree here.That is just the start of the many things to be exposed.

Brother. Leave the judging to Jesus. Establish a personal relationship with Him. Spend time in prayer. Familiarize yourself with Catholic prayer and devotions and saints and intercessors and relics, and how they are inferred from Holy Scripture. Did you know that the early martyrs called for the help of martyrs before them, or that the first churches were built over the relics of saints? The scapular reinforces the message of the Gospel, such practices of prayer that go along with it are what Jesus taught us.

 

[Fidelibus]

Hello,

Hello.

I never said scripture alone is the sole rule of faith.

Interesting, you do list yourself as a Christian, correct? Would that be a Protestant Christian?
If so, it has been my experience that most members of Protestant, non-denominational, Independent, and home churches or sects are adherents to the belief of "sola scriptura", a.k.a. believers of the 'bible alone.'

So, I would like to ask, as you stated above, "I never said scripture alone is the sole rule of faith" what other then the bible/scripture do you believe that justifies as a sole rule of faith?

The verse I showed shows that if men walk in the light that is in them from God, that light will agree with God’s word and bear witness if it is God’s word is spoken or written.

Could I ask how you came to this understanding, and meaning of this bible passage? Would I be correct in assuming you believe this to be your personal, and correct interpretation of this passage? If so, by what authority would you be able to make this claim, and why should we believe your personal interpretation of this passage is the correct interpretation?

This also answers the objections of sone that there is no light in us.

Would you please elaborate further on what you believe the answers to be?
Also, would you please consider giving a response to the question posed in my last post regarding Isa. 8: 11-23. I will re-post it for you.

"What should Isaiah and his disciples be prepared to answer to what the people will claim as their rights and what will be the outcome?"


Have a Blessed Day!

 

[LoveofTruth]

Hello.



Interesting, you do list yourself as a Christian, correct? Would that be a Protestant Christian?
If so, it has been my experience that most members of Protestant, non-denominational, Independent, and home churches or sects are adherents to the belief of "sola scriptura", a.k.a. believers of the 'bible alone.'

So, I would like to ask, as you stated above, "I never said scripture alone is the sole rule of faith" what other then the bible/scripture do you believe that justifies as a sole rule of faith?



Could I ask how you came to this understanding, and meaning of this bible passage? Would I be correct in assuming you believe this to be your personal, and correct interpretation of this passage? If so, by what authority would you be able to make this claim, and why should we believe your personal interpretation of this passage is the correct interpretation?



Would you please elaborate further on what you believe the answers to be?
Also, would you please consider giving a response to the question posed in my last post regarding Isa. 8: 11-23. I will re-post it for you.

"What should Isaiah and his disciples be prepared to answer to what the people will claim as their rights and what will be the outcome?"


Have a Blessed Day!

Hello,

Read my first few post in this discussion I started this talk from page one. I describe clearly what I mean by these things. From page 1 the first three post

 

[LoveofTruth]

Brother. Leave the judging to Jesus. Establish a personal relationship with Him. Spend time in prayer. Familiarize yourself with Catholic prayer and devotions and saints and intercessors and relics, and how they are inferred from Holy Scripture. Did you know that the early martyrs called for the help of martyrs before them, or that the first churches were built over the relics of saints? The scapular reinforces the message of the Gospel, such practices of prayer that go along with it are what Jesus taught us.

Hello,, God bless

Consider this in response to judging righteous judgment

1 Corinthians 2: 15. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.”

1 Corinthians 5: 3. For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,”

1 Corinthians 6: 2. Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3. Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?”

And as believers are commanded by Jesus

John 7: 24. Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.”

1 Corinthians 14: 24. But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 25. And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.”

Philippians 1: 9. And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;”

And

1 John 4: 1. Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.”

 

[LoveofTruth]

It seems unwise to follow teachers in these last days. Men will heap teachers to themselves to tickle their ears. Meanwhile we have the scriptures (the real teachers) to guide us and we have the Spirit as well.

Yes there are many fake teachers but we still need to allow Christ to work effectually in the body to edify one snother in Christ as he works in us.

As scripture shows

Ephesians 4: 15. But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16. From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.”

 

[Fidelibus]

Hello,

Read my first few post in this discussion I started this talk from page one. I describe clearly what I mean by these things. From page 1 the first three post

They are very long posts. Before I read them, could you please inform me if the three first posts you speak of are your own personal words, or words from some other source. If they are from some other source, could you please provide the source.


Have a Blessed Day!

 

[WarriorAngel]

Hello and God bless,

I was led by God put of the Roman Catholic Church many years ago, about 40 years or so ago and never gone back. There were so many reasons and doctrines that were not as God showed me and were contrary to the Spirits witness in scripture also.

A simple one was the host, the mass, sacraments, or Mary issues or scapulars.

Consider that many Popes and many possibly millions of Roman Catholics west a thing called a “Scapular” around their neck that says on the back of it that;

“Whosoever dies wearing this scapular shall not suffer eternal fire”

That’s another gospel and spiritual very troubling. The true saving gospel is in 1 Corinthians 15:1-5. We must not add to the gospel or change it or the warnings of Galatians 1 come into play.

If all a person had to do to escape the eternal flames was to wear that scapular around thier neck then Christ died in vain for them and they trust another gospel:

I would like to hear your reasons for going back to the Roman Catholic Church.

One would then surmise the Holy Spirit is a flip flopper eh?

I mean Jesus established the One Church with Peter.
But how many broke off with 'wresting scriptures' as Peter warned leads to damnation?
Basically every single Church since and during the reformation.

There's really no argument. It's either people are wresting their own opinions of scriptures or they are not and if not they follow the Teacher of all set up by Christ, still today called Catholic [named as much in scriptures] to mean universal.

 

[LoveofTruth]

You claimed that 2 Cor 13:3 says that Christ spoke in Paul, and that he 'also' spoke in the Corinthians.

It says nothing of the sort.

The verse says that exactly…

 

[LoveofTruth]

They are very long posts. Before I read them, could you please inform me if the three first posts you speak of are your own personal words, or words from some other source. If they are from some other source, could you please provide the source.


Have a Blessed Day!

My words as led by God to the measure of faith and maturity in the Lord and I quote scripture and use scripture .

 

[LoveofTruth]

They are very long posts. Before I read them, could you please inform me if the three first posts you speak of are your own personal words, or words from some other source. If they are from some other source, could you please provide the source.


Have a Blessed Day!

Hello again, God bless.

The post are a bit long but not that long. It is good to consider these things and read through the first few post I posted here.

 

[LoveofTruth]

One would then surmise the Holy Spirit is a flip flopper eh?

I mean Jesus established the One Church with Peter.
But how many broke off with 'wresting scriptures' as Peter warned leads to damnation?
Basically every single Church since and during the reformation.

There's really no argument. It's either people are wresting their own opinions of scriptures or they are not and if not they follow the Teacher of all set up by Christ, still today called Catholic [named as much in scriptures] to mean universal.

No, I was led put of that religious system to Christ himself.

And you say Jesus established the one true church with Peter,

Yet Peter didn’t say that or Paul

In fact we read some interesting verses that you may want to consider,

Paul (not Peter here) said,

2 Corinthians 11: 28. Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.”


Galatians 2:. 6. But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person:) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me: 7. But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8. (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles. 9. And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. 10. Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do. 11. But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed”

 

[LoveofTruth]

One would then surmise the Holy Spirit is a flip flopper eh?

I mean Jesus established the One Church with Peter.
But how many broke off with 'wresting scriptures' as Peter warned leads to damnation?
Basically every single Church since and during the reformation.

There's really no argument. It's either people are wresting their own opinions of scriptures or they are not and if not they follow the Teacher of all set up by Christ, still today called Catholic [named as much in scriptures] to mean universal.

Also consider

1 John 2: 26. These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.”

 

[Valletta]

Also consider

1 John 2: 26. These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.”

Exactly. But how do you know that you are not the one following the teachings of man rather than God? There are good prayerful people that differ yet all believe they are the ones led by the Holy Spirit.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Exactly. But how do you know that you are not the one following the teachings of man rather than God? There are good prayerful people that differ yet all believe they are the ones led by the Holy Spirit.

Well, this verse alone shows what I am saying. Some say, that we need such men to teach us and over us in authority and dominion but this verse says you don’t need any man to teach you the same anointing teaches you all things.

But those who say, no, you cannot understand anything without the priest or popes or those who teach you, would fight against this verse and many other verses.

And yes, God also gives teacher gifts to the body who are to walk in that anointing.

Jesus himself was asked by spiritually dead religious leaders, by what authority he did the things he did and speak the things he did? His authority was when he spoke the word which is His authority. They challenged him thinking that he had no authority of man to do what he did very similar to many today. He also asked them by what authority John spoke?

Believers in Christ as they walk in ther light and continue in His word have authority in word and life for all to see.

Even the young man with the Spirit of God and scripture has more authority than those who do not walk in the rule of God.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Exactly. But how do you know that you are not the one following the teachings of man rather than God? There are good prayerful people that differ yet all believe they are the ones led by the Holy Spirit.

Also,

Romans 14: 5. One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.”

We must all follow the three safeguards as I showed earlier in many posts. The inner witness of Gid working in us directly, the body of Christ as multitude of witness in them, and the Holy scriptures.

Now, the body of Christ as a group of believers may be contrary to Gods order of mutual edification as Christ works in all and be under the Lording over dominant controlling false authority of a one man over all that quenches the spirit abd they may be bound up under one false leaders deception. In this case, we can only hope that God will bring other witness from outside to come among them and share truth abd scripture to help or that enough of them will hear Gods innerveutness abd confirmation from scripture to help them.

We see this deception in scripture many times where one man or a few men bind up the assembly and lord over the flock quenching the spirit and hurting the flock spiritually. We read of Diotreohese who loved to have the preeminence and wouldn’t receive the brethren etc.

3 John 1: 9. I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not. 10. Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church. 11. Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.”

And here are just a few more verses of many about this earning. We see these dangers all over in the assembly of the saints today.

Acts 20: 29. For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 31. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. 32. And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.”

And

Matthew 20: 25. But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. 26. But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; 27. And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant.”

And Paul warned them of such men who exalt themselves and are false

2 Corinthians 11: 12. But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. 13. For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works…. 18. Seeing that many glory after the flesh, I will glory also. 19. For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye yourselves are wise. 20. For ye suffer, if a man bring you into bondage, if a man devour you, if a man take of you, if a man exalt himself, if a man smite you on the face.”

If what we understand goes against these three witnesses, the Lotd in us directly witnessing, the body of Christ as they are freely allowed to edify one another in the Lord, and the Holy scriptures as all can use freely, then we should reconsider what we believe.

 

[rturner76]

No “apostolic succession”, according to scripture as we can see here, just a few verses of many,

Galatians 1: 1. Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead.”

God gives gifts, not men. No man can study thier way to a gift in a thing called “Bible school” or have another give them gifts .God does this as He wills.

Ephesians 4: 11. And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;”

Maybe but according to the Bible was not Peter given the "keys to the kingdom? Who would Peter then pass the keys to? What many Bible worshippers fail to realise is that there was only one Church for the first thousand years of Christiandom. After Luther, anybody could start a church based on whatever they interpret the Bible to say. Still not remembering the the cannon of the New Testament was fnalized by the original Catholic (universal) church. If The Church doesn't ubderstand Biblical interpretation, why would a Protestant believe that their original interpretation of the New Testament was in error? Protestants believe whatever they want while the original Church still holds the keys to the lingdom.

 

[rturner76]

What I wonder is if people hae no concept of Christianity apart from the New Testament, How is it that Christians observed the sacraments and spread the Gospel for 300 years before the New Testament was Cannonized? And.......If we have no reguard for the Church that spread the gospel for 300 years AND were the ones who voted on what books would make up the New Testament, Wherefore does their authority on Christian life come? I mean if the Church that spread the gospel for 3 centuries before they approved what would be included in the New Testament has no authority, I wonder where the Protestant gets their authority from? Being that a new church springs up from every individual interpretation, how can they be the judge on what is scriptural when they has no part in the vote that determined what would be considered scriptual.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Maybe but according to the Bible was not Peter given the "keys to the kingdom? Who would Peter then pass the keys to? What many Bible worshippers fail to realise is that there was only one Church for the first thousand years of Christiandom. After Luther, anybody could start a church based on whatever they interpret the Bible to say. Still not remembering the the cannon of the New Testament was fnalized by the original Catholic (universal) church. If The Church doesn't ubderstand Biblical interpretation, why would a Protestant believe that their original interpretation of the New Testament was in error? Protestants believe whatever they want while the original Church still holds the keys to the lingdom.

Jesus said to all the disciples.This authority is for all believers in Christ.

If the Lord said to a person I give you the authority to cast out devils. That would be true to the person he is talking to .but this power is given to all believers as God leads them.

But consider a correction to your interpretation of Peter being told what he was, abs how this applies to all

Matthew 18: 16. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. 18. Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 19. Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. 20. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.”

Notice how Jesus didn’t say, “tell it unto the priest or Pope”. No, he said bring it before the church. The church as a whole makes decisions and can bind and loose.

 

[LoveofTruth]

What I wonder is if people hae no concept of Christianity apart from the New Testament, How is it that Christians observed the sacraments and spread the Gospel for 300 years before the New Testament was Cannonized? And.......If we have no reguard for the Church that spread the gospel for 300 years AND were the ones who voted on what books would make up the New Testament, Wherefore does their authority on Christian life come? I mean if the Church that spread the gospel for 3 centuries before they approved what would be included in the New Testament has no authority, I wonder where the Protestant gets their authority from? Being that a new church springs up from every individual interpretation, how can they be the judge on what is scriptural when they has no part in the vote that determined what would be considered scriptual.

Revelation 2: 2. I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:”

Since the early days of the church in the new covenant we see false apostles and corruption.

3 John 1: 9. I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not. 10. Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church. 11. Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.”