The Rule of faith and practice is not scripture "alone"

[Hawkins]

Of course I agree with Romans 3:28. There is no conflict. 1) "works of the law" does not mean "all works". 2) Justification is not a one time event.

Well we explained it exactly in a way which is not contradictory. Your's here is rather an assertion.

Faith is justified apart from (any) works of Law. Judgment can be a one time event based on faith which is apart from the works of Law.

 

[Swag365]

Well we explained it exactly in a way which is not contradictory. Your's here is rather an assertion.

No, your explanation contradicts James. James states "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." Your explanation is that "A man is justified by faith only, and not by works." It is exactly the opposite of James. Thus, you contradict James.

Faith is justified apart from (any) works of Law. Judgment can be a one time event based on faith which is apart from the works of Law.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Faith is justified."

As for "Judgment can be a one time event based on faith which is apart from the works of Law" can you provide the verse that supports that view?

For example, Romans 2, which speaks of judgment, states this:

He will render to each one according to his works: 7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8 but for those who are self-seeking1 and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. 11 For God shows no partiality.​

 

[Albion]

No, your explanation contradicts James. James states "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." Your explanation is that "A man is justified by faith only, and not by works." It is exactly the opposite of James. Thus, you contradict James.

It only seems that way if the Epistle is subjected to being cherry-picked as was done here.

 

[Swag365]

It only seems that way if the Epistle is subjected to being cherry-picked as was done here.

Nonsense.

 

[YeshuaFan]

No. Neither of the examples had anything to do with being justified before men. Nor does the text state "justified before men." And the context of the section is salvation. That is why James asks "Can faith save him?" He did not ask "Can faith vindicate him before men?" That is not what the chapter is about.

faith alone, saving faith in Lord Jesus produces real works is James point!

 

[YeshuaFan]

No, the text does not state that the man in question does not really have faith. The text asks "Can faith save him?" If he doesn't even have faith the question makes no sense whatsoever.

James wants to emphasis that real saving faith can be shown by ones good works, not the cause, but the result!

 

[Swag365]

faith alone, saving faith in Lord Jesus produces real works is James point!

No, the text states that faith was completed by his works.

 

[Swag365]

James wants to emphasis that real saving faith can be shown by ones good works, not the cause, but the result!

No, the text does not state anything about a "real saving faith".

 

[YeshuaFan]

No, the text states that faith was completed by his works.

Good works showed that he had saving faith!

 

[YeshuaFan]

No, the text does not state anything about a "real saving faith".

James stated that real saving faith will give evidence by your good works!

 

[Swag365]

Good works showed that he had saving faith!

How many good works demonstrate a saving faith?

 

[Swag365]

James stated that real saving faith will give evidence by your good works!

No, the phrase "real saving faith" appears nowhere in the book of James. Nor does James imply that concept.

 

[YeshuaFan]

How many good works demonstrate a saving faith?

Those that are done in the name of jesus!

 

[YeshuaFan]

No, the phrase "real saving faith" appears nowhere in the book of James. Nor does James imply that concept.

Yes James does, as he is showing there is a big difference between professing Jesus as your Messaih and Lord, and actually having Him as such!

 

[LoveofTruth]

Hi. How can i get in touch directly with you? I have some questions regarding this subject, and others, i think you might be able to help me better elucidate.
Please let me know.

Hello and God bless,
We can talk here if you want I live in Canada in the Toronto are outskirts

I will seek to answer any questions you have by the grace of God.

 

[i submitted to the Lord]

Hello and God bless,
We can talk here if you want I live in Canada in the Toronto are outskirts

I will seek to answer any questions you have by the grace of God.

Thanks so much. Peace and grace to you.

In my endeavor of seeking the God and Father of Jesus Christ, to truly grow in perfection to the full measure of Christ, I've come across many who have claimed to be His'. Yet, in time they revealed to be not, for many reasons too lengthy to go into now, but that can be summarized by this: people largely and ultimately seek themselves and their own desires; their comfort, their prejuidices, their satisfaction and so on and, ultimately deceive themselves or allow themselves to be deceived into believing that their own desires are God's will for them and others. Really, I've met many people like this, under a great variety of guises. So, at several times I have abandoned the idea of ever having fellowship with others.... Until i read several of your postings and about the Quakers. You really appear to be seeking God, and so did the Quakers at some point.

I particularly found encouraging the writings of Mr. Barclay, although somewhat saddened at seeing how the Quaker church has been corrupted and deteriorated with time. Probably not all of it, but a great part of it. How do you take that? Are you part of any physical fellowship or gathering? How has been your experience with actual fellowships, understanding the ideas and beliefs you seem to understand?

 

[LoveofTruth]

Thanks so much. Peace and grace to you.

In my endeavor of seeking the God and Father of Jesus Christ, to truly grow in perfection to the full measure of Christ, I've come across many who have claimed to be His'. Yet, in time they revealed to be not, for many reasons too lengthy to go into now, but that can be summarized by this: people largely and ultimately seek themselves and their own desires; their comfort, their prejuidices, their satisfaction and so on and, ultimately deceive themselves or allow themselves to be deceived into believing that their own desires are God's will for them and others. Really, I've met many people like this, under a great variety of guises. So, at several times I have abandoned the idea of ever having fellowship with others.... Until i read several of your postings and about the Quakers. You really appear to be seeking God, and so did the Quakers at some point.

I particularly found encouraging the writings of Mr. Barclay, although somewhat saddened at seeing how the Quaker church has been corrupted and deteriorated with time. Probably not all of it, but a great part of it. How do you take that? Are you part of any physical fellowship or gathering? How has been your experience with actual fellowships, understanding the ideas and beliefs you seem to understand?

Hello again, God bless.

yes I believe gathering in homes with others and ministering as you are led by the Spirit is God’s order. We had home meetings for about 18 years. And we had about 6 churches gathering in six homes or more. I meet wherever the church meets snd getters in Christ. My work recently has been more itinerant. But a while back I worked with another worker to help a meeting to gather in Gods order in Niagra falls. I also saw the result of much work in the city and great meetings we had in Ryerson where we used a large room there. Eventually they had two home meetings. The Ryerson school was right down town so there were a few evangelist and others we met from the area.
And yes, I find the early Quaker’s very interesting. Although I disagree with some of thier views. But they had some wonderful meetings as I read. Today they seem largely in error. I visited a meeting in a large old house in Toronto and when they say in a large circle waiting for ministry I was lead to ideal and the second time they tried to silence me. This was because I used scripture and I saw no bibles there. I also spoke of the peace that Christ brings in contrast to one person who got up and read a poem of worldly peace.

 

[i submitted to the Lord]

Hello again, God bless.

yes I believe gathering in homes with others and ministering as you are led by the Spirit is God’s order. We had home meetings for about 18 years. And we had about 6 churches gathering in six homes or more. I meet wherever the church meets snd getters in Christ. My work recently has been more itinerant. But a while back I worked with another worker to help a meeting to gather in Gods order in Niagra falls. I also saw the result of much work in the city and great meetings we had in Ryerson where we used a large room there. Eventually they had two home meetings. The Ryerson school was right down town so there were a few evangelist and others we met from the area.
And yes, I find the early Quaker’s very interesting. Although I disagree with some of thier views. But they had some wonderful meetings as I read. Today they seem largely in error. I visited a meeting in a large old house in Toronto and when they say in a large circle waiting for ministry I was lead to ideal and the second time they tried to silence me. This was because I used scripture and I saw no bibles there. I also spoke of the peace that Christ brings in contrast to one person who got up and read a poem of worldly peace.

Thanks for your reply. What do you disagree on with the early Quakers? I haven't read all of their writings and beliefs, but those you linked on an old message you posted and were authored by Mr. Barclay. I found his expositions clear and truthful.

And this brings to mind, something I'd very much like to read your opinion on. You and i agree on the Quakers being largely in error nowadays. My question is, how can you tell they are in error and you are right? How can you tell you are right at all? This is critical to me.I have read many of your posts on this site, not all of course, and I agree with all I've read for except one thing, which puzzles me and I'll ask you about that later on. But my question is, how can you tell your beliefs are right?

For example, on this site there are a lot of discussions about doctrines, points of view, and often, these simply aren't compatible. Some are outright opposites. Yet, everyone believes to be in the right regarding their beliefs and postures, and no matter how lengthy or detailed an explanation is given on the opposite view, it is just not accepted. Is, then everything accurate, right and true? Of course not. But everyone believes to be in the right, to be inspired by the Holy Spirit and honest and accurate in their individual or groupal interpretation of Scripture. Of course, thus happened too, between Christ and the Pharisees and Sadducees. Paul and the Judaizers and so on. Few, I would dare to say, are knowingly mistaken and deceitful. Many really believe whatever they believe and to have ears to truly hear. Of course, there are those too, who are unsure and they sway to and fro here to there and everywhere.

Have you ever pondered all if this in detail?

Thank you again, for reading all this and for your time in writing back to me. If you want, I'd really appreciate if you xan write me back to: anikkazu@protonmail.ch. it is more feasible for me to write an email, than using this site.

Grace, peace, wisdom and love from God to you.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Thanks for your reply. What do you disagree on with the early Quakers? I haven't read all of their writings and beliefs, but those you linked on an old message you posted and were authored by Mr. Barclay. I found his expositions clear and truthful.

And this brings to mind, something I'd very much like to read your opinion on. You and i agree on the Quakers being largely in error nowadays. My question is, how can you tell they are in error and you are right? How can you tell you are right at all? This is critical to me.I have read many of your posts on this site, not all of course, and I agree with all I've read for except one thing, which puzzles me and I'll ask you about that later on. But my question is, how can you tell your beliefs are right?

For example, on this site there are a lot of discussions about doctrines, points of view, and often, these simply aren't compatible. Some are outright opposites. Yet, everyone believes to be in the right regarding their beliefs and postures, and no matter how lengthy or detailed an explanation is given on the opposite view, it is just not accepted. Is, then everything accurate, right and true? Of course not. But everyone believes to be in the right, to be inspired by the Holy Spirit and honest and accurate in their individual or groupal interpretation of Scripture. Of course, thus happened too, between Christ and the Pharisees and Sadducees. Paul and the Judaizers and so on. Few, I would dare to say, are knowingly mistaken and deceitful. Many really believe whatever they believe and to have ears to truly hear. Of course, there are those too, who are unsure and they sway to and fro here to there and everywhere.

Have you ever pondered all if this in detail?

Thank you again, for reading all this and for your time in writing back to me. If you want, I'd really appreciate if you xan write me back to: anikkazu@protonmail.ch. it is more feasible for me to write an email, than using this site.

Grace, peace, wisdom and love from God to you.

Hello again and God bless.
There are a few things that the early Quakers say Were they look at some scriptures as apocalyptic and in thier present age which Question and it seems they promoted revelation in speaking and prophecy but they didn’t seem to stress a teaching gift in gatherings as much. . And I have a few issues with some ideas and doctrines. I like a Robert Barclays apology in many areas but some things he says I don’t see when I listen in the Spirit and compare scripture with.
It is a long complicated discussion and too much to get into detail right now about.

I can know the truth as I abide in faith and have the witness of God in my spirit with the holy scriptures and the body of believers. I know all groups might claim as much but these three are the way to know. The inner work of Hod and Hod witness, the holy scriptures which answer to that witness and the body of Christ in the multitude of counsel for such safety.

the Issue with other groups is that many of them do not allow all three of these proofs. For example manny churches did not believe in body ministry to one another Amgen they gather as scripture commands and Some don’t believe in the inner voice of God leading etc.
I find that many groups go off on one of these points or more. But if we are to be perfect we need all three. God working in us to make us perfect into every good work Hebrews 13:20,21, the body of Christ and ministry for the perfecting of the saints Ephesians 4:10-16 and the Holy scriptures in faith in Christ which are able to make us perfect unto every good work .

God bless.
And let every man be fully persuaded in his own conscience before God. If in anything we be lacking God shall reveal even this to us.

 

[i submitted to the Lord]

What you say is true in my view. I've come to that conclusion too by observing, analyzing and learning from the natural world too, which even if corrupted, it continues to retain a significant manifestation of the nature of our Creator and purpose of His creation.

But i also think that the most important of those three points is the witness of God's light in each believer. Without it, everything else is useless. A community of people who believes in lies and whose hearts are enrooted in darkness can't ever discern Scripture. Let alone correct each other in the true justice, goodness and wisdom of God. So, where does that leave us?

Again, the most important part is that witness of Christ's light in us which, nonetheless, is the impossible point to prove, just like we can't prove the existence of consciousness, we only experience it and it manifests itself, but only to those who can truly see it.

But what we experience may be darkness instead of light, not truly knowing which is which. If the light within you is darkness... I've seen this happen to people and it's an awful sight... And they just can't see, but believe they can, and call you blind and evil when you don't agree with their views.

This has happened to me, and as a result
I've scrutinized my beliefs over and over again and prayed to not be blind while believing I can see. However, i know this for certain: God knows who are his.

With the previous in mind, and knowing it is important to have a fellowship with true brethren, I'd like to know if you would allow me to be more in contact with you. Not just about questions, but to edify one another in Christ, hoping that will truly be the result of my request.

If you agree, please kindly reply to the email I've already provided. I don't think this is the appropriate venue for anything else than asking and replying some questions.

Peace, grace, wisdom and love, from God, to you.