THE RICH MAN AND LAZARUS (Luke 16) IS NOT A PARABLE

[Der Alte]

***

Not all Bibles are created equally. (biased to Damnationism)
Matthew 25:46 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'

The word "aiōnios" is an adjective, the nonsensical UR term "age-during" is a verb. To make Matt 25:46 fit their false narrative UR-ites ignore Greek grammar and presto-chango an adjectives becomes an verb.

YOUNG, ROBERT: Lay theologian and orientalist; b. at Edinburgh Sept. 10, 1822; d. there Oct. 14, 1888. He received his education at private schools, 1827-38; served an apprenticeship to the printing business, 1838-45, using his spare time to study the oriental languages; became a communicant in 1842; joined the Free Church, and became a Sabbath-school teacher in 1843. In 1847 he took up printing and bookselling on his own account, proceeding to publish books that tended to further the study of the Old Testament and its ancient versions; his first publication was an edition with translation of Maimonides' 613 precepts.
Young's Literal Translation​

…..Greek is now, and has always been, the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church. Who, better than the native Greek speaking scholars who translated the "literal" Eastern Orthodox Bible [EOB], know the correct meaning of Greek words, e.g. “Gehenna,””aiōnios” and “kolasis?”
….. EOB, footnote pg. 180

Hades is the realm of the dead. The upper part of hades was considered to be luminous and it was called “paradise” or "Abraham's bosom.” Hades is not to be confused with hell (Gehenna) which is the final place of state or place of the damned (“the lake of’ fire”).​

= = = = = = = = = =

The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96
Matthew 25:46 Then he will answer them saying ‘Amen. I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' “These [[ones on the left]] will go away into eternal punishment.[κολασιν αιονιον/kolasin aiōnion] but the righteous into eternal life.
= = = = = = = = = =
KJV Romans 16:26 [EOB 14:25]
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [αιωνιου/aiōniou] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:​

In the EOB Paul, the same writer, in the same writing, uses αιωνιου/aiōniou],” in Rom 16:26 synonymous with αιδιος/aidios in Rom 1:20, below.

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world, his invisible things are clearly seen. They perceived through created things, even his everlasting [τε αιδιος/te aidios] power and divinity.
= = = = = = = =
https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/books/or...tament-(The-Eastern-Greek-Orthodox-Bible).pdf​

The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96 can be D/L at the link above. If anyone has doubts about the EOB version I suggest they read the preface which documents the extensive Greek scholarship supporting this translation.

 

[FineLinen]

Wrong.

DEATH is the time sensitive factor.

John 3:16 is either right or it is wrong......
“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

Good grief!

God indeed loves the whole world. The WHOLE world encompasses the first-fruits of His love, (the elect), and the rest of the dirty rotten scoundrels who have yet to believe in the dispensation of the fulness of times.

Further:

God loves the whole world and in my Bible (s) includes v.17 what goes with it!

I repeat:

The salvation of the Lord is not based in anything but Himself. When each person comes into the realization of that fact is not time sensitive.

For the vast, vast majority it will occur in the dispensation of the fulness of times when the all of ta pavnte heads Home into Him.

The identical many made sinners = the many made righteous.

 

[Saint Steven]

47 out of 50 translations say...…"Forever and ever".

The YLT being one of them.

Now you post the Scriptures which tell us that "ALL" of those individuals will accept Christ and be saved and then removed from the Lake of Fire" and delivered to Heaven with God.

That is exactly what all of you have been saying. NOW PROVE IT!

Do you not believe that God is capable to do just that? Or that he is somehow unwilling? Is it not his will that all be saved?

Under the earth. In heaven and on earth and under the earth. (in the realm of the dead)
Every knee will bow and every tongue confess. Anyone missing?
Everyone will acknowledge openly (whole-heartedly), without reservation that Jesus Christ is Lord. No one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,”, you will be saved.

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says,
“Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

 

[Saint Steven]

No sir. But you did not read the post where I detailed that the righteousness of God is only added to THOOSE WHO BELIEV AND ACCEPT CHRIST.

We are not saying that the righteousness of God will be added to those who DO NOT believe and accept Christ. We only differ on when this can happen. Where was Christ for three days before his resurrection? And what did he do? (took captivity captive from the realm of the dead)

Saint Steven said: ↑
So you only believe half of what verse 18 teaches and half of what verse 19 teaches based on your claim that Universalism isn't biblical. That's rich. - lol

Romans 5:18-19
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

 

[FineLinen]

My dear brother, "ALL" who by CHOICE find themselves in the 2nd Death, will be "Hurt/TORMENTED " eternally as the 2nd Death IS THE lake of fire.

That is wonderfully glorious news for the broken and bruised seed of Adam1.

And

The choicest of the choice over-comers who follow the Lamb in the withersoever.

 

[FineLinen]

47 out of 50 translations say...…"Forever and ever".

The YLT being one of them.

Young's Literal Translation
Chapter Parallel

Matthew 25:46 (YLT) And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'

One more time Major:

What are the 5 (five) qualifications for aionios kolasis?

 

[Der Alte]

***

Young's Literal Translation

Chapter Parallel
Matthew 25:46 (YLT) And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'
One more time Major:
What are the 5 (five) qualifications for aionios kolasis?

Previously posted this thread.
The word "aionios" is an adjective, the nonsensical UR term "age-during" is a verb. To make this verse fit the false UR narrative they have to ignore grammar and change an adjective into a verb.

YOUNG, ROBERT: Lay theologian and orientalist; b. at Edinburgh Sept. 10, 1822; d. there Oct. 14, 1888. He received his education at private schools, 1827-38; served an apprenticeship to the printing business, 1838-45, using his spare time to study the oriental languages; became a communicant in 1842; joined the Free Church, and became a Sabbath-school teacher in 1843. In 1847 he took up printing and bookselling on his own account, proceeding to publish books that tended to further the study of the Old Testament and its ancient versions; his first publication was an edition with translation of Maimonides' 613 precepts.
Young's Literal Translation​

…..Greek is now, and has always been, the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church. Who, better than the native Greek speaking scholars who translated the "literal" Eastern Orthodox Bible [EOB], know the correct meaning of Greek words, e.g. “Gehenna,””aiōnios” and “kolasis?”
….. EOB, footnote pg. 180

Hades is the realm of the dead. The upper part of hades was considered to be luminous and it was called “paradise” or "Abraham's bosom.” Hades is not to be confused with hell (Gehenna) which is the final place of state or place of the damned (“the lake of’ fire”).​

= = = = = = = = = =

The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96
Matthew 25:46 Then he will answer them saying ‘Amen. I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' “These [[ones on the left]] will go away into eternal punishment.[κολασιν αιονιον/kolasin aiōnion] but the righteous into eternal life.
= = = = = = = = = =
KJV Romans 16:26 [EOB 14:25]
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [αιωνιου/aiōniou] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:​

In the EOB Paul, the same writer, in the same writing, uses αιωνιου/aioniou],” in Rom 16:26 synonymous with αιδιος/aidios in Rom 1:20, below.

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world, his invisible things are clearly seen. They perceived through created things, even his everlasting [τε αιδιος/te aidios] power and divinity.
= = = = = = = =
https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/books/or...tament-(The-Eastern-Greek-Orthodox-Bible).pdf​

The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96 can be D/L at the link above. If anyone has doubts about the EOB version I suggest they read the preface which documents the extensive Greek scholarship supporting this translation.

​

 

[Shrewd Manager]

I agree almost completely with you. God's salvation is for ALL human beings.

The penalty paid by Christ was for ALL sinners. As Christ laid down his life voluntarily for our sins, he paid the full penalty for all sin, of all people, of all time -- past, present, and future.

How can anyone think different than what is written 1 Peter 3:18 ………...

"For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit".

However, how can anyone deny the words from the same written Word from God Himself in Revelation 20:14-15.....
"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

Is one Scripture right and one wrong????

NO! They are both right and the answer is that God in Christ made salvation possible when He paid for the sins of ALL men, but to obtain that salvation one must come to and accept Jesus Christ by faith.

Ephesians 2:8-9 is either right or it is wrong.......
"We sare saved by GRACE THROUGH FAITH and not by ourselves, it is the gist of God".

Yes sir, the teachings of 1 Pet 3:18, Rev 20:14-15 and Eph 2:8-9 are entirely consistent with UR. I'd go further and suggest they cannot be coherent except under UR.

As Peter therein makes clear, Christ died for all sinners, not just the elect. The means by which he and we are to be brought to God requires the flesh to be killed so as to attain life in the spirit. This is clearly metaphor, referring to overcoming carnal desires, to fix our minds on things above.

John envisions that all those who are dead in the sea, death and hades are cast into the LoF, and this is the second death. These ppl are already 'dead' when thrown into the LoF, so how can they die a second time? The answer must be that the flesh is being killed, figuratively speaking.

This can be verified by the 'nations', who as unbelievers (Revelation 21:8) are consigned to the LoF. We later, however, see them return to worship God in Revelation 21:24-26, just as prophesied in Isaiah and Revelation 15:4.

So the LoF is an illustration of the process described by Peter, using apocalyptic imagery.

That then fits with Eph 2:8-9, where it is by the 'gist of God' that the stubbornly unrepentant are 'cast into' the LoF in order to save them by grace through faith (ie by killing off the sin attachments holding them back). The LoF is a metaphor for exposure to the full force of God's passionate covenantal love.

This can be verified by many universalist promises and prophecies (eg every knee will bow), by the fact that God is making everything new (Revelation 21:5) the Pearly Gates are always open (Revelation 21:25), the standing offer to sinners to wash the robes ie purify the flesh of the residue of sin and death (Revelation 22:14) and encouragements to come in for the free gift of the water of life (Revelation 22:17).

Making sense yet?

 

[Der Alte]

...
Making sense yet?

Not even!
…..According to three irrefutable Jewish sources; the Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Judaica and the Talmud, quoted below, among the יהודים/Yehudim/ιουδαιων/Youdaion/Jews in Israel before and during the time of Jesus there was a belief in a place of everlasting torment of the wicked and they called it both sheol and gehinnom, translated hades and gehenna in the LXX and NT.
…..There were different groups within Judaism; Sadducees, Pharisees, Essenes etc. and there were different beliefs about resurrection, hell etc. That there were differing beliefs does not rebut, refute, change or disprove anything in this post.

Jewish Encyclopedia, Gehenna
The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch … in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). … the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a);[“Soon” in this verse would be about 700 BC +/-]​

[Note, this is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT supposed bias of modern Christian translators. DA]

(I)n general …sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell(B.M. 83b).
But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).[/i]
… heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b). When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [שאול/Sheol] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch [x. 6, xci. 9, etal] also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al). "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according toIsa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b).
Link: Jewish Encyclopedia Online
Note, scripture references are highlighted in blue.
= = = = = = = = = =
Encyclopedia Judaica:
Gehinnom (Heb. גֵּי בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּי בְנֵי הִנֹּם, גֵּיא בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּיא הִנֹּם; Gr. Γέεννα; "Valley of Ben-Hinnom, Valley of [the Son (s) of] Hinnom," Gehenna), a valley south of Jerusalem on one of the borders between the territories of Judah and Benjamin, between the Valley of *Rephaim and *En-Rogel (Josh. 15:8; 18:16). It is identified with Wadi er-Rababi.
…..During the time of the Monarchy, Gehinnom, at a place called Topheth, was the site of a cult which involved the burning of children (II Kings 23:10; Jer. 7:31; 32:35 et al.; ). Jeremiah repeatedly condemned this cult and predicted that on its account Topheth and the Valley of the Son of Hinnom would be called the Valley of the "Slaughter" (Jer. 19:5–6).
In Judaism the name Gehinnom is generally used as an appellation of the place of torment reserved for the wicked after death. The New Testament used the Greek form Gehenna in the same sense.
Gehinnom
= = = = = = = = = =
Talmud -Tractate Rosh Hashanah Chapter 1.
The school of Hillel says: . . . but as for Minim, [followers of Jesus] informers and disbelievers, who deny the Torah, or Resurrection, or separate themselves from the congregation, or who inspire their fellowmen with dread of them, or who sin and cause others to sin, as did Jeroboam the son of Nebat and his followers, they all descend to Gehenna, and are judged there from generation to generation, as it is said [Isa. lxvi. 24]:
"And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written[Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more.
Concerning them Hannah says [I Sam. ii. 10]: "The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces."
Link: Tract Rosh Hashana: Chapter I.​

When Jesus taught e.g.,

• “Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:” Matthew 25:41
• "these shall go away into eternal punishment, Matthew 25:46"
• "the fire of hell where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die, 3 times Mark 9:43-48"
• "cast into a fiery furnace where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth,” Matthew 13:42, Matthew 13:50
• “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.” Matthew 18:6
• “And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” Matthew 7:23
• “woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born. ” Matthew 26:24
• “But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.” Luke 10:12​

…..These teachings tacitly reaffirmed and sanctioned a then existing significant Jewish view of eternal hell, outlined above. In Matt. 18:6, 26:24 and Luk 10:12, see above, Jesus teaches that there is a punishment worse than death or nonexistence.
…..A punishment worse than death without mercy is also mentioned in Hebrews 10:28-31.

Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.​

…..Jesus is quoted as using the word death 17 times in the gospels, if He wanted to say eternal death in Matt 25:46, that is what He would have said but He didn’t, He said “eternal punishment.” The Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection, they knew that everybody died; rich, poor, young, old, good, bad, men, women, children, infants and knew that often it had nothing to do with punishment and was permanent. When Jesus taught “eternal punishment” they would not have understood it as merely death, it would have meant something worse to them.
…..Concerning “punishment” one early church father wrote,

“‘Then these reap no advantage from their punishment, as it seems: moreover, I would say that they are not punished unless they are conscious of the punishment.” Justin Martyr [A.D. 110-165.] Dialogue with Trypho Chapter 4​

…..Jesus undoubtedly knew what the Jews, believed about hell. If that Jewish teaching was wrong, why didn’t Jesus tell them there was no hell, no eternal punishment etc? Why would Jesus teach “eternal punishment,” etc. to Jews who believed, "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity," which would only encourage and reinforce their beliefs?

 

[Major1]

Yes sir, the teachings of 1 Pet 3:18, Rev 20:14-15 and Eph 2:8-9 are entirely consistent with UR. I'd go further and suggest they cannot be coherent except under UR.

As Peter therein makes clear, Christ died for all sinners, not just the elect. The means by which he and we are to be brought to God requires the flesh to be killed so as to attain life in the spirit. This is clearly metaphor, referring to overcoming carnal desires, to fix our minds on things above.

John envisions that all those who are dead in the sea, death and hades are cast into the LoF, and this is the second death. These ppl are already 'dead' when thrown into the LoF, so how can they die a second time? The answer must be that the flesh is being killed, figuratively speaking.

This can be verified by the 'nations', who as unbelievers (Revelation 21:8) are consigned to the LoF. We later, however, see them return to worship God in Revelation 21:24-26, just as prophesied in Isaiah and Revelation 15:4.

So the LoF is an illustration of the process described by Peter, using apocalyptic imagery.

That then fits with Eph 2:8-9, where it is by the 'gist of God' that the stubbornly unrepentant are 'cast into' the LoF in order to save them by grace through faith (ie by killing off the sin attachments holding them back). The LoF is a metaphor for exposure to the full force of God's passionate covenantal love.

This can be verified by many universalist promises and prophecies (eg every knee will bow), by the fact that God is making everything new (Revelation 21:5) the Pearly Gates are always open (Revelation 21:25), the standing offer to sinners to wash the robes ie purify the flesh of the residue of sin and death (Revelation 22:14) and encouragements to come in for the free gift of the water of life (Revelation 22:17).

Making sense yet?

You said...………….
"The means by which he and we are to be brought to God requires the flesh to be killed so as to attain life in the spirit".

That is incorrect brother.

1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 ......
"For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the LORD's word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the LORD, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the LORD himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the LORD in the air. And so we will be with the LORD forever."

That is the RAPTURE and those alive will be caught up in the air to meet Jesus.

You have totally missed the Scriptures which tell us about the TWO Resurrections.

The FIRST Resurrection is in various stages. Jesus Christ Himself (the “first fruits,” 1 Corinthians 15:20), paved the way for the resurrection of all who believe in Him. There was a resurrection of the Jerusalem saints (Matthew 27:52-53) which should be included in our consideration of the first resurrection. Still to come are the resurrection of “the dead in Christ” at the Lord’s return at the RAPTURE (1 Thessalonians 4:16) and the resurrection of the martyrs at the end of the Tribulation (Revelation 20:4).

However there is a SECOND Resurrection. Rev. 20:12-13.....
" And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. "

The second resurrection as the wicked judged by God at the Great White Throne Judgment prior to being cast into the lake of fire. The second resurrection, then, is the raising of all unbelievers bodies to be reunited with their spirits that have been in Sheol/Torments.

The second resurrection is connected to the second death. It corresponds with Jesus’ teaching of the “resurrection of damnation” in John 5:29.

 

[Major1]

That is wonderfully glorious news for the broken and bruised seed of Adam1.

And

The choicest of the choice over-comers who follow the Lamb in the withersoever.

NO! It is terrible news. It is BAD, really BAD news but it is non the less the Words of God.

The only way,,,ONLY WAY that you can make your theology work is to completely IGNORE and REJECT the written Word of God as the fact, there is no Universalism found in the Bible.

 

[Major1]

We are not saying that the righteousness of God will be added to those who DO NOT believe and accept Christ. We only differ on when this can happen. Where was Christ for three days before his resurrection? And what did he do? (took captivity captive from the realm of the dead)

Saint Steven said: ↑
So you only believe half of what verse 18 teaches and half of what verse 19 teaches based on your claim that Universalism isn't biblical. That's rich. - lol

Romans 5:18-19
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Christ was in the PARADISE side of SHAOL.

 

[Major1]

Do you not believe that God is capable to do just that? Or that he is somehow unwilling? Is it not his will that all be saved?

Under the earth. In heaven and on earth and under the earth. (in the realm of the dead)
Every knee will bow and every tongue confess. Anyone missing?
Everyone will acknowledge openly (whole-heartedly), without reservation that Jesus Christ is Lord. No one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,”, you will be saved.

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says,
“Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Steve....I have asked all the UR believers...…….
Now you post the Scriptures which tell us that "ALL" of those individuals will accept Christ and be saved and then removed from the Lake of Fire" and delivered to Heaven with God.

That is exactly what all of you have been saying. NOW PROVE IT!

There has been more than enough words, and comments and this and that. Just post the Scriptures that validate your opinion and we can put all of this to bed.

Will you please post those Scriptures??????

 

[Saint Steven]

Christ was in the PARADISE side of SHAOL.

Well, might interesting to see who you might encounter there.
Those who were disobedient in the days of Noah. Paradise indeed.
Only eight in all were saved.

1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

 

[Saint Steven]

Steve....I have asked all the UR believers...…….
Now you post the Scriptures which tell us that "ALL" of those individuals will accept Christ and be saved and then removed from the Lake of Fire" and delivered to Heaven with God.

That is exactly what all of you have been saying. NOW PROVE IT!

There has been more than enough words, and comments and this and that. Just post the Scriptures that validate your opinion and we can put all of this to bed.

Will you please post those Scriptures??????

I already did.
Tell me who is not included in "every knee" and "every tongue"?
What part of "every" don't you understand?

Maybe I gave you too many scriptures. Let's try less.
Who is not included in "all"?

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

 

[Major1]

Well, might interesting to see who you might encounter there.
Those who were disobedient in the days of Noah. Paradise indeed.
Only eight in all were saved.

1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

There is NO ONE in the PARADISE side of Shaol Steve. The Torments side is occupied by the spirits of the lost from Genesis to today and they will be reunited with their bodies at the 2nd Resurrection.

Hebrews 9:12 states,

"...But by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us."

He then returned to Earth and walked 40 days before His final Ascension. (Acts 1:3, 9-11).

At His Ascension, he emptied the saved out of Paradise in the heart of the Earth, taking them to Heaven with Him. Ephesians 4:8 makes this clear:

"Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men."

Paradise is no longer in the center of the Earth, but is now in Heaven. This is revealed in 2 Corinthians 12:2,4 which describes a man,

 

[Major1]

I already did.
Tell me who is not included in "every knee" and "every tongue"?
What part of "every" don't you understand?

Maybe I gave you too many scriptures. Let's try less.
Who is not included in "all"?

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

NO Steve you have not. YOU are evading the question.....WHY IS THAT????
To say that "Every knee will bow and every tongue confess" IS NOT what I asked for. There is not one single word in those phrase about the LOF or torments or death, hell or being saved and going to heaven.

YOU as a Universalist believe that EVERYONE will be saved who is in the Lake of Fire and then be taken to heaven.

WHERE are TOSE words in the Bible my brother.

What YOU posted is what YOU want to believe and what I Am asking for is where in the Bible are the words....
IN THE LAKE OF FIRE, STAN AND ALL THE DEMONS AND ALL THE WICKED LOST WILL ACCEPT CHRIST AND BE SAVED AND THEN GO TO HEAVEN".

So...…..2nd chance! What are those verse?

 

[Major1]

Young's Literal Translation
Chapter Parallel

Matthew 25:46 (YLT) And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'

One more time Major:

What are the 5 (five) qualifications for aionios kolasis?

The words for “all”, “every”, “whosoever” etc. are often singular, NOT plural. Thus they refer to:

“all” the one [group],

or “the whole” of the class,

or “the entire” of the class. +

To grasp the use of this particular “all” in Greek and Hebrew, consider:

“And ALL the peoples of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of Jehovah, and they shall be afraid of you” (Deuteronomy 28:10).

Here, “all the peoples of the earth” does NOT include Israel. In the same way, “go ye into all the world” is NOT inclusive of every race. Failure to understand this is the source of error in the modern popular evangelical teaching.
The Misuse of the Words, "All," "Every," "Whoseoever," Etc.

 

[FineLinen]

The words for “all”, “every”, “whosoever” etc. are often singular, NOT plural. Thus they refer to:

“all” the one [group],

or “the whole” of the class,

or “the entire” of the class. +

To grasp the use of this particular “all” in Greek and Hebrew, consider:

“And ALL the peoples of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of Jehovah, and they shall be afraid of you” (Deuteronomy 28:10).

Here, “all the peoples of the earth” does NOT include Israel. In the same way, “go ye into all the world” is NOT inclusive of every race. Failure to understand this is the source of error in the modern popular evangelical teaching.
The Misuse of the Words, "All," "Every," "Whoseoever," Etc.

You poor dear laddy: Pas indeed radically means all!

Again: there is what is known as a metonomy & a synecdoche
in a very few Scripture, very few indeed.

In the following passages please identify which ones are either tis or pas.

The New Radical Unbelief Bible

1 Cor. 15:22

“For as in Adam some die, so also in Christ some shall be made alive. But each in his own order; Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, then comes the end, when He delivers up the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished some rule and some authority and power.”

Rev. 5:13

“And some created things that are in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and some things in them, I heard saying, To Him who sits on the throne and the Lamb, be blessing and honour and glory and dominion and power forever.”

Col. 1:18-20

“He too is that head whose body is the Church, the Firstborn from the dead, he is to the Church the Source of its life, that in some things He might occupy the foremost place/ to be in some things alone supreme . For it pleased the Father that in him the divine nature in some of its fulness should dwell. And, having made peace through the blood of His cross, by him to reconcile some things unto Himself ; by him, I say, whether they be things on earth, or things in heaven. And you that were sometimes alienated…”

Acts 3:20,21

“And He will send Jesus, your destined Christ, yet heaven must retain Him, until the restitution of some things. ( when some things are put right) ”

1 Cor. 15:28

“And when some things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him that put some things under Him, that God may be some in some.”

1 Cor. 15:25,27

“For He must reign until He hath put some enemies under His feet…For He hath put some things under His feet. But when He saith some things are put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted, which did put some things under Him.”

Romans 11:32

“For God has consigned some men to disobedience that He might have mercy upon some.”

Eph. 4:10

“Yea, He who came down is the same who is gone up, far above some heavens, that He might fill some things with His Presence.”

John 5:28

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which some that are in the graves shall hear His voice. Those who have done good will to live and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.”

1 Timothy 2:4

“For this is good and pleasing in the eyes of God our Saviour; who will have some men to be saved and come to an increasing knowledge of the truth.”

1 Timothy 2:6

“For there is one intermediary (One who brings God and men together) who gave Himself a ransom in behalf of some to be testified in due time.”

Cor. 5:15

“For the love of God overmasters us because we judge that if one died for some, then were some dead; And that His purpose in dying for some was that men, while still in life, should cease to live for themselves, and should live for Him who for their sake died and was raised to life.”

Col. 1:16

"For by Him were some things created, of things in heaven and on earth, things seen and things unseen (angels or archangels and some of the powers of Heaven)… some things were created by Him, and for Him (some were made by Christ for His own use and glory.)

John 3:35

“The Father loves the Son, and has given some things into His hand (has given Him control over less than everything). Whoever trusts on the Son possesses eternal life and he who does not obey the Son, God’s displeasure hangs over him continually.”

Gal. 3:20

“But the Scripture has concluded/consigned some without exception to the custody of sin, in order that the promise by faith in Christ Jesus might be given to those who believe in Him.”

Heb. 1:2

“God…hath in these days spoken unto us in His Son who is the predestined Lord of the universe. (whom he has appointed heir of some things)”

2 Cor. 5:14

“For the love of Christ constraineth/overmasters/compels/controls us, and this is the conviction we have reached; if one man died on behalf of some, then some thereby became dead men. Christ died for some, so that being alive should no longer mean living with our own life, but with his life who died for some of us and has risen again.”

Heb.8:11

“And they shall not teach some men his neighbor, and some his brother, saying get to know the Lord, for some of them shall know me from small to great. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness…”

Acts 10:36

"The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: He is Lord of some.

Rom. 11:36

"For from him some things come; through Him some things exist; and in him some things end. ” (For of him and through him, and to him are some things.)

Eph. 4:6

“One Lord, one faith, one baptism. One God and Father of some, who is over some, and works through some, and dwells in some.”

Heb. 12:23

“To the festal gathering and Church of the first-born, enrolled as citizens in heaven, and to God the Judge of some men and unto the spirits of righteous ones made perfect.”

James 2:10

“For whomsoever shall keep the whole law, but fails in a single point, has become guilty of violating some. ”

Romans 3:22,23

“…the righteous of God which comes by believing in Jesus Christ. …For some have sinned / none have attained the glorious likeness of God/lack the glory that comes from God/ are deprived of the Divine splendour.”

John 17:2

“As thou has made him sovereign over some of mankind that he should give aionios life to as many as thou hast given him.”

Romans 9:5

“The patriarchs are theirs and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ. May God who is supreme above some, be blessed throughout the ages.”

2 Peter 3:9

“The Lord is not slack/does not loiter/ is not dilatory concerning his promise, according to some people’s conception of slowness; but He bears patiently with you, because it is not His will for any to be lost, but for some to come/reach repentance.”

Phil. 2:10,11

In order that in adoration of the Name of Jesus some knees will bow themselves and openly acknowledge with joy, in celebration and praise, that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. This profession and confession of His lordship shall be open and freely proclaimed, acknowledged joyfully by some beings in the heavens, by some beings on the earth and by some beings in the underworld.

Please Remember…

All does not radically mean all.

Whole is not whole.

All = Some

 

[Der Alte]

When "all" does not literally mean "all."
The Greek word κοσμος means world except when it doesn't mean world.

[1]Matthew 16:26
(26) What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul? [Mark 8:36, Luke 9:25]​

Can a person literally inherit the "whole world?"

[2]1 John 5:19
(19) We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.​

Was "the whole world" literally under the control of the evil one?

[3]Revelation 12:9
(9) The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.​

Did Satan literally lead "the whole world" astray?

[4]Revelation 13:3
(3) One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast.​

Did "the whole world" literally follow the beast?

[5]Genesis 41:57 And all the world came to Egypt to buy grain from Joseph, because the famine was severe everywhere.​

Did "all the world" literally buy grain from Egypt?

[6]Acts 17:6 But when they did not find them, they dragged Jason and some other believers before the city officials, shouting: "These men who have caused trouble all over the world have now come here,​

Did the disciples literally cause trouble "all over the world?"

[7]Acts 19:35 The city clerk quieted the crowd and said: "Fellow Ephesians, doesn't all the world know that the city of Ephesus is the guardian of the temple of the great Artemis and of her image, which fell from heaven?​

Did "all the world" literally know that Ephesus was the guardian of the pagan deity Artemis?

[8]Acts 24:5 "We have found this man to be a troublemaker, stirring up riots among the Jews all over the world. He is a ringleader of the Nazarene sect.​

Was Paul literally stirring up riots "all over the world?"

[9]Luke 2:1 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.​

Did Caesar literally tax "all the world?"

[10]Acts 19:27 So that not only this our craft is in danger to be set at nought; but also that the temple of the great goddess Diana should be despised, and her magnificence should be destroyed, whom all Asia and the world worshippeth​

Did "all the world" literally worship the goddess Diana?

[11]Romans 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.​

Was the faith of the Romans literally spoken of throughout "the whole world?"

[12]John 12:19 The Pharisees therefore said among themselves, Perceive ye how ye prevail nothing? behold, the world is gone after him.​

Did the whole world literally go after Jesus?

[13]Acts of the apostles 17:6 And when they found them not, they drew Jason and certain brethren unto the rulers of the city, crying, These that have turned the world upside down are come hither also;​

Did the Paul’s companions literally turn “the world upside down?”

[14]1 Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.​

Did the “ends of the world” literally come upon the Israelite who disobeyed God at Sinai?

[15]James 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.​

Is the tongue literally a world?
Let us use the fallacious UR aion/aionios argument on these verses. The word "world" cannot literally mean the entire planet earth because it refers to/describes things that are not literally "the whole world" and "all the world."