The Return of My Apple Challenge

[Vene]

Ask Noah.

He didn't even do that right.

 

[dad]

Well known to be non-existent.

Since you think that about God, and all spirits, that is fine. I will remind you that your mythical past is non existent.

No, dad. No. The results corroborate each other on their own.

False, each are set to the same clock.

Also, the assumptions on their own do not yield any kind of results. It turns out that the different methods would give wildly different results if the assumptions are wrong.

Nope. The assumptions all are myth based.

So the assumptions are right.

Yap yap.

 

[dad]

Why is it that God must kill what he already made before he creates again?

Well, if the earth is recreated, what happens to all the men on it before that?

 

[dad]

You are reminding me of why I got sad when you left the first time.

Keep going; Here's hoping you'll become as funny as you used to be.

Don't think that my concern in life is being funny. Just try and get used to enjoying losing debates. That will provide the consistency you seem to need.

 

[dad]

Everlasting means without end. What we have is a poor translation where the original documents use a word that does nto mean ever lasting nor forever nor eternity yet have been translated as such and as a result many like you have the wrong idea as to what it means. The word generally specifies a period of time long in general but related to the object of the sentence. We see numerous examples throughout the bible where it can be a few days, years, centuries, eons. The thing that is totally clear is that it is not absolute and has no definite time in the word itself.

Well, so you say.
Ps 89:1 -I will sing [SIZE=-1][/SIZE] of the lovingkindness of the LORD forever; To all generations I will make[SIZE=-1][/SIZE] known Your faithfulness [SIZE=-1][/SIZE] with my mouth.
"

1. [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Geneva]
   [*] long duration, antiquity, futurity, for ever, ever, everlasting, evermore, perpetual, old, ancient, world
   1. ancient time, long time (of past)
   2. (of future)
      1. for ever, always
      2. continuous existence, perpetual
      3. everlasting, indefinite or unending future, eternity"
   [/FONT]

http://www.studylight.org/isb/view.cgi?number=05769

Get a grip, man.

What's more Jesus explicitly says that the earth shall pass away. So either Jesus was wrong or you are. Science tells us that the earth will pass away, the exact cause and time are unknown but it will happen of that you can be sure.

It shall, only in the sense that this state will end, as well as the whole surface of the earth be burned up! The foundations of the earth are for eternity.

"[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Geneva] perpetuity, for ever, continuing future

1. ancient (of past time)
2. for ever (of future time)
   1. of continuous existence
3. for ever (of God's existence)"

[/FONT]

One, earth is part of the universe. If the universe passes away so does earth.

It will all be made new. A new heavens and a new earth. But it is the same earth, just not this state.

Two, the bible explicitly states that the earth shall pass away and that a new earth shall be formed.

No, just the surface is burned, the foundations are clearly forever.

Three, as already pointed out the word translated as forever does not in any case literally mean forever but when speaking of the earth does entail a great deal of time, billions of years to be sure.

Nope, as defined here already for you. Read and learn.

Wrong, the entire book of revelation is symbolic and metaphor

You were misinformed. That is lukewarm pusillanimous balderdash.

you err to take it literally as for the sheep and the goats they are not divided by blind belief in nonsese but rather by thier heart and if they have cared for thier fellow man when needed.

Works don't save anyone. They never have.

 

[dad]

*Snicker-snack!*
Dead for a ducat, Dead!

Well, bolt, I see you like to say dead a lot. Not sure why, or hwta it does for you. But thanks for that.

 

[dad]

Ask Noah.

The earth was not destroyed, just some creatures on it, because they were wicked beyond all reasonable tolerance, and so much so, that mankind was in danger of being too far gone for any salvation possibility.

 

[FishFace]

Since you think that about God, and all spirits, that is fine. I will remind you that your mythical past is non existent.

No, you see, there is a pretty good reason to believe that the past exists. But you have never ever provided a good reason for all of your fantasy nonsense.

False, each are set to the same clock.

Details, dad, details.

Nope. The assumptions all are myth based.

What's the myth, dad? Details.

Yap yap.

Can't deal with first-order logic so you have to resort to yapping like a dog? Understandable I suppose.

1. If the assumptions were correct, the data would not corroborate
2. The data corroborates
3. The assumptions are therefore correct.

Pick a premise or a logical step and attack it. Give reasons. (Your usual belated vagaries are never good enough)

 

[dad]

No, you see, there is a pretty good reason to believe that the past exists. But you have never ever provided a good reason for all of your fantasy nonsense.

The past did exist. So? Not your fantasy past, of course.

Details, dad, details.

Well, we assume a same past state, then we look at decay as if it was in place in the past, and cook up an old age. Then, we look at trees, and assume growth rates were the same. Then, we might look at varves, and assume they were deposited as they are now. Then, we might look at how fast the continents now move, and etc etc etc.

What's the myth, dad? Details.

That the present universe was in place as is way back when.

Can't deal with first-order logic so you have to resort to yapping like a dog? Understandable I suppose.

Tut tut.

Pick a premise or a logical step and attack it. Give reasons. (Your usual belated vagaries are never good enough)

This thread is about an apple. One that was created. I have no problem with that.

 

[Soul Searcher]

Well, so you say.

In this case your definitions are meaningless. One major problem with lexicons is that they use a preconceived view of scripture in creating thier definitions, while in general they are pretty good and always helpful they fall on thier face here. You could show me a million texts that say the word means forever but I can show you bible verses where it literally refers to less than a week. If you want to continue arguing this point you will do it alone as I will not waste my time arguing against your imagionation.

It will all be made new. A new heavens and a new earth. But it is the same earth, just not this state.

Once again making it up as you go I see.

No, just the surface is burned, the foundations are clearly forever.

Ah the foundations back when they believed that the earth was actually setting on a foundation or four of them as it were. Total nonsense my man. We know for a fact that no such foundation exists outside mythology.

Nope, as defined here already for you. Read and learn.

Somehow I doubt that there is much you can teach me other than how to use my imagionation to come up with wild claims and no support. Johan was not in the whale forever, a man does not live forever, the kingdoms did not last forever, a slave does not serve his master forever yet this is the word that is used. It clearly does not literally mean forever, of that you can be sure.

You were misinformed. That is lukewarm pusillanimous balderdash.

Really, The first few verses of revelation says that it is just that so if I have been misinformed it was the bible that did so and that is what you call boulderdash. I see.. so you not only make up your history but the bible as well.

Works don't save anyone. They never have.

Yet the sheep and the goats is definitely talking about works and makes no mention at all of faith. Need I remind you that it was you who brought that up and it failed.

As I said the earth has a begining and it will have an end. This is a fact. You can deny it till the day you die but the fact will not change. You should really consider joining the rest of us here in reality for a while.

 

[dad]

In this case your definitions are meaningless. One major problem with lexicons is that they use a preconceived view of scripture in creating thier definitions, while in general they are pretty good and always helpful they fall on thier face here. You could show me a million texts that say the word means forever but I can show you bible verses where it literally refers to less than a week. If you want to continue arguing this point you will do it alone as I will not waste my time arguing against your imagionation.

Well, since God is eternal, and gave us eternal life, your attempt to misuse the concept on some mickey mouse lesser application is of no consequence. Unless you want to claim God will die in a week. Preposterous lukewarmedness.

Once again making it up as you go I see.

Ps 104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be
removed for ever.

Re 20:9 -And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. (this is just before the new heavens)

Ah the foundations back when they believed that the earth was actually setting on a foundation or four of them as it were. Total nonsense my man. We know for a fact that no such foundation exists outside mythology.

No you don't! They are there. No idea what "four" you mean. But the basement is a forever foundation.

Somehow I doubt that there is much you can teach me other than how to use my imagionation to come up with wild claims and no support. Johan was not in the whale forever, a man does not live forever, the kingdoms did not last forever, a slave does not serve his master forever yet this is the word that is used. It clearly does not literally mean forever, of that you can be sure.

An age is one connotation, true, but so what??? There is also, 'ages and ages', and all the rest I already posted. It is patently obvious that God and man will live forever, in the normal sense of the word.

Really, The first few verses of revelation says that it is just that so if I have been misinformed it was the bible that did so and that is what you call boulderdash. I see.. so you not only make up your history but the bible as well.

The first few verse of Revelation are these.


1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.


Now, what are you talking about?????

Yet the sheep and the goats is definitely talking about works and makes no mention at all of faith. Need I remind you that it was you who brought that up and it failed.

Well, let us say it separates the men from the boys in the faith dept.

As I said the earth has a begining and it will have an end.

No, only the present state of earth ends, the earth is forever, absolutely.

This is a fact. You can deny it till the day you die but the fact will not change. You should really consider joining the rest of us here in reality for a while.

Getting desperate now, by trying to claim popular support for silly notions, and hiding in a safe place you like to call reality. OK. Run if you must. Your lukewarm notions were dealt with.

 

[NailsII]

Yes, bible evidence. Plants were made just a few days before we and animals were made, and we ate them. Also Noah sent a bird out, -no tree. A week later, voila, a tree twig.

And how exatly does that make all trees dead and re-created ifully matured nside a week?
My interpretation would be that all the trees were covered by water, as were all the mountains - Or they had drifted too far from land for the bird to find a tree.
But as it is purely mythology, the point is mute.

Science is fine. You just need to keep it in it's little present place.

I agree.
The only place for science is in medicine, research, education, technology and such.
By the same token, religion should be confined to the church from whence it came - and certainly not in politics, education or scientific research.
And don't try to argue that religion offers superior morals, we all know how absurd such a claim is.

I do not mistrust science at all. Just the two bit fables posing as science, that run around crossing God, and bad mouthing the truths of the bible past and future. That shoddy little act should cease and desist.

Funny how you object to the interpretation that it conflicts with religion, but i bet youare perfectly happy with the same science (genetics and evolutionary theory, nuclear theory, germ theory etc.) when it aids justice, medicine and powers our streets and homes.
You can't have it both ways, it is either all correct or all wrong.

Tell, us how, precisely does gravity work?!!! (Not what does it do, but how it works)
Once you do that, then the tricky part comes in. Prove it used to operate the same way.

Funny, I though i had asked you that question.

No worries, all will know, and every knee will bow. Those who survive into that golden age, likely will be honestly unaware, not deliberate liars.

So, god loves us and makes us all bow to him.
The only way i will bow to god is:
1. Under torture. I'm not a martyr, I would admit to fantising about pixies while wearing women's clothing if it meant being set free and being without pain.
2. If he simply revealed himself in an un-ambigous way - thus providing evidence.

That is no crime. The crime is to love darkness rather than light, not have a weak light at the start of their life. All should get their opportunity to hear about Jesus in a real way.

But what if you are raised to belief that darkness is the true light?
Why should someone be punished for ignorance?

Absolutely. Dead wrong, bet your life on it. Thanks, I am a little busy to mop up the mess personally.

They'll probably have me taken away in a straight jacket, you know.

Why is it that God must kill what he already made before he creates again?

Exactly.
With all the planets in the universe, why not just abandon the bad one and start again on another?
Simple answer - 2,000+ years ago they thought this was the only planet.

The earth was not destroyed, just some creatures on it, because they were wicked beyond all reasonable tolerance, and so much so, that mankind was in danger of being too far gone for any salvation possibility.

Did't work though, did it.

 

[Tiberius]

Well, if the earth is recreated, what happens to all the men on it before that?

What, God can't do it on another planet? He can do ANYTHING, can't he?

 

[dad]

And how exatly does that make all trees dead and re-created ifully matured nside a week?
My interpretation would be that all the trees were covered by water, as were all the mountains - Or they had drifted too far from land for the bird to find a tree.
But as it is purely mythology, the point is mute.

There was no land, up till they crash landed on the side of a mountain, as the waters went down. They were in the ark over a year. No tree can live under water that long.

Gen 8: 10 And he stayed yet other seven days; and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark; 11 And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.


The clear indication here is that Noah was comforted by the firm knowledge that trees were now growing again.

I agree.
The only place for science is in medicine, research, education, technology and such.
By the same token, religion should be confined to the church from whence it came - and certainly not in politics, education or scientific research.

Well, that depends if the population is religious. If it is, why, the belief that is chosen for creation ought to be up to them.

And don't try to argue that religion offers superior morals, we all know how absurd such a claim is.

No, I do not really know much about religion, sorry. But any heart that really has Jesus in it is a true heart. One to be trusted.

Funny how you object to the interpretation that it conflicts with religion, but i bet youare perfectly happy with the same science (genetics and evolutionary theory, nuclear theory, germ theory etc.) when it aids justice, medicine and powers our streets and homes.
You can't have it both ways, it is either all correct or all wrong.

There is no same science from creation, as there is in the present. That is the point. Regardless of the mickey mouse benefits, the fact that all men are endangered by the WOMD moots the glories of PO science.

Funny, I though i had asked you that question.

Gravity, as I understand it, is not understood. Forget the forces that existed in some unknown past.

So, god loves us and makes us all bow to him.

He will, yes. After He stops wicked reprobate satan worshiping, killer man, from killing us all.

The only way i will bow to god is:
1. Under torture. I'm not a martyr, I would admit to fantising about pixies while wearing women's clothing if it meant being set free and being without pain.

Unless you were a believer by the time Jesus came back, you likely would not be allowed to be a survivor anyhow. Cheer up. Since I hear there is no free will in hell, that is not an issue. Now is your chance. I suggest you take it.

2. If he simply revealed himself in an un-ambigous way - thus providing evidence.

No, every eye shall see Him, even those that pierced Him.

But what if you are raised to belief that darkness is the true light?
Why should someone be punished for ignorance?

I think He will give all a good chance to see the light, and chose.

Exactly.
With all the planets in the universe, why not just abandon the bad one and start again on another?

Because God ain't like that. His creation will be restored, why would He let His original plan fail??

Simple answer - 2,000+ years ago they thought this was the only planet.

How do you know?

 

[dad]

What, God can't do it on another planet? He can do ANYTHING, can't he?

No, He cannot break His word. Earth is forever. Relax.

 

[Nathan Poe]

No, He cannot break His word. Earth is forever. Relax.

Interesting -- What else is there that your small and limited God cannot do?

 

[dad]

Interesting -- What else is there that your small and limited God cannot do?

It is telling, that some think that breaking your word is an option. Do tell your students that, if you still teach in Catholic school. They need to know what sort of teacher they have.

 

[Soul Searcher]

Well, since God is eternal, and gave us eternal life, your attempt to misuse the concept on some mickey mouse lesser application is of no consequence. Unless you want to claim God will die in a week. Preposterous lukewarmedness.

God is eternal yes but that does nothing for your point about the earth. If I say my life has lasted for a week that would be a true statement but to interpret that as me being one week old would be an error. As for gave us eternal life that doesn't seem to be the case. The bible tells us that our spirit will return to God when we die and then it also tells us that in the fullness of times God will be all in all which strongly indicates that there will come a time when all will be one again just as it was in the begining.

Ps 104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be
removed for ever.

Again there is no word in the Hebrew language that literaly means forever.

Re 20:9 -And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. (this is just before the new heavens)

Verse 21:1 says that the old earth has passed away as have the heavens. In Matthew Jesus says that they will pass away.

No you don't! They are there. No idea what "four" you mean. But the basement is a forever foundation.

The four corners of the earth. Foundations is not a basement. Then again this is just a missunderstanding of scripture on your part. The phrase "foundations of the earth" is refering to the begining of the earth, the formation, the establishment of it. It has nothing to do with a literal foundation as you seem to think it does.

An age is one connotation, true, but so what??? There is also, 'ages and ages', and all the rest I already posted. It is patently obvious that God and man will live forever, in the normal sense of the word.

Actually it is obovious that men die, all men do. I have seen it happen many times myself. As I said before the meaning fo the word is not a literal forever and there is no word in Hebrew that means literaly forever. ages and ages is a non specific period of time but it has both a begining and an end. It is not forever and it is certianly not eternal which has no beining nor end.

The first few verse of Revelation are these.


1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

signified means to show by sign or symbol. The very first verse tells us that it is a book of signs and symbols. It should be obovious that it is so from readng the rest of the text as well. I have known this since I was a little boy. Even at 8 years old I could see this was all symbolic language.

Well, let us say it separates the men from the boys in the faith dept.

How? It does not even so much as mention the word faith nor belief. In fact it has nothing at all to do with it. What it seperates is those who care about others from those who do not.

No, only the present state of earth ends, the earth is forever, absolutely.

The present state of the earth will end before you read this message. It is constantly changing and it will end. Keep lying to yourself if that is what makes you happy but know that you are wrong.

Getting desperate now, by trying to claim popular support for silly notions, and hiding in a safe place you like to call reality. OK. Run if you must. Your lukewarm notions were dealt with.

Desperate? No. Annoyed? Yes. I would I hide from fantasy? It is not real. It can do no harm. Your words have no bite, no fact, no data. You just have a pet belief and you stubbornly stick to it even though it does not match up to reality.

Have fun in your fantasy world.

 

[Soul Searcher]

No, He cannot break His word.

So are you saying that he can not change his mind?

Did he destroy Nineveh as he said he would?

 

[FishFace]

So are you saying that he can not change his mind?

Did he destroy Nineveh as he said he would?

Did Adam die as soon as he ate the fruit?