The Resurrection

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Off topic, please read the OP.

And evolution and the creation of the universe is not off topic? Interesting.

 

[popsthebuilder]

The word earth in the first parts of the text denote matter, not the planet.

In the first part of the text liquid or likeness to water is in reference to the substance used with God's light(big bang) to create all things. It explains the formation of earth as a planet of water. It mentions pangea.

Lastly I will state that this information, though inspired by God was still somewhat limited by man's understanding at that time, to some extent.

Peace

 

[popsthebuilder]

Thought we were talking about the resurrection?

 

[Hawkins]

That still does not make Genesis compatible with science.

1. Earth before the sun=wrong
2. Water canopy=wrong
3. Birds before land animals=wrong

I've heard some brilliant defenses:

1. Earth is not depicted as preceeding sun: from observer's perspective on earth, the dark clouds block the sun in the beginning
2. Water canopy = Oort Cloud
3. [No defense]

Even modern humans don't have concept about what time-space can be. God hinted what it is, but not necessarily make it crystal clear to the ancient humans such as Moses.

Earth can be before the Sun as God doesn't need to create earth in its current position, He doesn't need to even create the earth in its current time-space.

Birds can be created before land animals, if you are willing to put aside your faith in the ToE.

 

[AV1611VET]

There is quite literally no point in you being here on the apologetics forums.

See that s-word underneath my name?

Does that mean anything to you?

 

[AV1611VET]

Lastly I will state that this information, though inspired by God was still somewhat limited by man's understanding at that time, to some extent.

And scientists today in the 21st century, with all their myopic-busting equipment and 10¢ telescopes & microscopes, do?

They can do everything from mapping genomes to putting men on the moon to reclassifying planets, but they can't see Jesus, can they?

(Not with their equipment, anyway.)

 

[popsthebuilder]

And scientists today in the 21st century, with all their myopic-busting equipment and 10¢ telescopes & microscopes, do?

They can do everything from mapping genomes to putting men on the moon to reclassifying planets, but they can't see Jesus, can they?

(Not with their equipment, anyway.)

I'm sorry but I missed your point could you restate it differently?

 

[AV1611VET]

I'm sorry but I missed your point could you restate it differently?

Sure.

The earth is round.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Sure.

The earth is round.

Uhm...yes I agree.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

It was against Jewi9sh practice to touch a dead body. Those whi did have touch one were then considr4d unclean:

Lev_5:2 Or if a soul touches any unclean thing, or the unclean dead body of an animal, or the unclean dead body of livestock, or the dead body of unclean swarming things, it being hidden from him that he is unclean and is guilty,
Lev_11:25 And anyone who lifts up their dead body shall wash his garments and shall be unclean until the evening;

There are over 20 verses about this---it was the Roman guards themselves who went to the authorities about Jesus being gone and the authorities would have been the ones to go looking for the body. The guards were facing death if it was proven they fell asleep on duty. Unfortunately, CSI was not around at the time for DNA testing and so forth--and there is no way in the world that the Romans would have admitted that they couldn't find him so they had to tell everybody that the Jews took the body. Defeats were not recorded, either in battle, or otherwise. In fact, the records of battles could be quite the opposite of what actually happened as others would record what actually happened and there are records where the kings would say they fought a victorious battle and the records of others would indicate otherwise. Face saving. There were no cameras recording everything that happened so what makes you think that the Romans didn't move heaven and earth to try and find that body?? They would have loved to announce to the whole world that it was all a lie and the best they could do was try to shut the whole thing up---didn't work.

And the only way the Jews could have stolen the body was to defeat a Roman Guard - which would have led to a war right then and there. And what is really confusing is why the Jews would want to steal his body - since they did not believe he was the Messiah. Stealing his body would only support his Messiah-ship - the exact opposite of the reasons they wanted to put him to death in the first place. People don't reason very well when they try to make up excuses to deflect the truth.

Some say it was a Jewish Temple guard - who would have even more reason than the Romans to make sure his body did not disappear, being as they are the ones that had him put to death and hiding his body would have only furthered the claims of Messiah, not caused them to die out.

 

[Tawhano]

It is a fact that no investigation is presented in the gospels. That is the only fact I'm citing. And it IS evidence that no miracle occurred. I'm not saying it's proof. It's a weight on the scales.

It is not “weight on the scales” at all; it is plain and simple a fallacy called a slippery slope:

Description of Slippery Slope:
The Slippery Slope is a fallacy in which a person asserts that some event must inevitably follow from another without any argument for the inevitability of the event in question. In most cases, there are a series of steps or gradations between one event and the one in question and no reason is given as to why the intervening steps or gradations will simply be bypassed. This "argument" has the following form:

1.Event X has occurred (or will or might occur).
2.Therefore event Y will inevitably happen.

This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because there is no reason to believe that one event must inevitably follow from another without an argument for such a claim. This is especially clear in cases in which there is a significant number of steps or gradations between one event and another. (From the work of Dr. Michael C. Labossiere posted on www.nizkor.org)​

As I already mentioned, and that you predictably ignored, your argument is wholly based on your opinion which is based on a fallacy and nothing else.

It is a fact that no investigation is presented in the gospels.

It is not a fact. I supplied the verses and you rejected it by splitting hairs in saying they didn’t send someone “AFTER” the guards reported their investigating findings. There was no need to send anyone as it was the duty of the guards, already posted at the sepulcher, to investigate after the stone was rolled away. This they did and they reported their findings.

they left and did not come back

I provided the verse that gives the account that only some of the guards left. Your assertion that none remained is unfounded.

So if you go off topic, I ignore it.

So let me see if I have your position straight on this: I quote you on several post you made and ask if you can confirm your position and that, in your opinion, is off-topic and that is why you refuse to answer those questions?

I'll answer your off-topic questions if you answer mine.

I’m guessing you have me confused with another poster as you haven’t asked me any off-topic question that I recall. In fact all you have done is post unsubstantiated accusations against me without making one effort to provide the reasons behind it.

I asked why no one went to VISIT the EMPTY tomb AFTER Easter Sunday. The guards you describe DID NOT visit the EMPTY tomb; they left and did not come back. They told their story to the pharisees who did not go investigate, nor did they send anyone to investigate. WHY?

I answered this question but it is clear you do not possess the skills or perhaps the desire to comprehend the answer. The guards not only visited the sepulcher but made sure it was secured. This was rejected by you because it didn’t happen “AFTER”. They remained at their post and when they noticed the stone was rolled away investigated the sepulcher and found that Jesus’s body was no longer there.

“Some of the guards (“outside of Christ's circle”) upon seeing that the stone was rolled away and the sepulcher was empty went to tell the chief priests (“outside of Christ's circle”) what happened. How could the guards tell them what happened if they didn’t investigate the sepulcher? How did the chief priest know Jesus’s body was no longer in the sepulcher if the guards who were there did not tell them? Your question was answered and yet you continue to post asking the same question over and over again. Why is that?“

This question is on-topic but you refuse to answer it. Why is that?

 

[HitchSlap]

“Some of the guards (“outside of Christ's circle”) upon seeing that the stone was rolled away and the sepulcher was empty went to tell the chief priests (“outside of Christ's circle”) what happened. How could the guards tell them what happened if they didn’t investigate the sepulcher? How did the chief priest know Jesus’s body was no longer in the sepulcher if the guards who were there did not tell them? Your question was answered and yet you continue to post asking the same question over and over again. Why is that?“

What's your source for this?

 

[Nihilist Virus]

The word earth in the first parts of the text denote matter, not the planet.

In the first part of the text liquid or likeness to water is in reference to the substance used with God's light(big bang) to create all things. It explains the formation of earth as a planet of water. It mentions pangea.

Lastly I will state that this information, though inspired by God was still somewhat limited by man's understanding at that time, to some extent.

Peace

So no defense of point 3 then?

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Even modern humans don't have concept about what time-space can be. God hinted what it is, but not necessarily make it crystal clear to the ancient humans such as Moses.

Earth can be before the Sun as God doesn't need to create earth in its current position, He doesn't need to even create the earth in its current time-space.

Birds can be created before land animals, if you are willing to put aside your faith in the ToE.

God can certainly do whatever he wants. I am simply saying that Genesis cuts against the scientific model. You seem to have missed that point.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

See that s-word underneath my name?

Does that mean anything to you?

No.

 

[civilwarbuff]

What's your source for this?

Mat 28:11-15
The guards could not tell the priests He was gone without looking. The other guards remained behind because you don't abandon your post without orders...especially if you are Roman.

 

[HitchSlap]

Mat 28:11-15
The guards could not tell the priests He was gone without looking. The other guards remained behind because you don't abandon your post without orders...especially if you are Roman.

Who wrote "The Gospel According to Matthew"?

 

[civilwarbuff]

Who wrote "The Gospel According to Matthew"?

That was not the question, this was:

What's your source for this?

Here is the answer:

Mat 28:11-15
The guards could not tell the priests He was gone without looking. The other guards remained behind because you don't abandon your post without orders...especially if you are Roman.

 

[HitchSlap]

That was not the question, this was:

Here is the answer:

I asked a second question. That's how conversations work.

ETA: In all honesty, it was a rhetorical question. I don't know who the author of Matthew is either, which leaves us with only copies of copies written by an anonymous author, making extraordinary claims about dead bodies coming back to life. So, what's easier, in your opinion, fabricating a resurrection story (for which we have many other examples of), or a dead body actually coming back to life three days later (for which we have no examples of).

 

[Nihilist Virus]

It is not “weight on the scales” at all; it is plain and simple a fallacy called a slippery slope:

Description of Slippery Slope:
The Slippery Slope is a fallacy in which a person asserts that some event must inevitably follow from another without any argument for the inevitability of the event in question. In most cases, there are a series of steps or gradations between one event and the one in question and no reason is given as to why the intervening steps or gradations will simply be bypassed. This "argument" has the following form:

1.Event X has occurred (or will or might occur).
2.Therefore event Y will inevitably happen.

This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because there is no reason to believe that one event must inevitably follow from another without an argument for such a claim. This is especially clear in cases in which there is a significant number of steps or gradations between one event and another. (From the work of Dr. Michael C. Labossiere posted on www.nizkor.org)​

As I already mentioned, and that you predictably ignored, your argument is wholly based on your opinion which is based on a fallacy and nothing else.

So then it is a slippery slope to argue that if someone is shot in the head on the street corner, that people in vehicles will show up and take pictures of the body, remove it, and devote hours of their lives trying to find out who did it.

Because you are literally saying this:

1. Jesus performed more miracles than could be physically recorded at the time, including healing handicapped persons and even raising others from the dead
2. The guards did not see Jesus' body being stolen, nor did they actually see the risen Jesus
3. There is no need to investigate

So you are being quite intellectually dishonest.

I can fully admit that my worldview does not account for everything in nature. There are holes yet to be filled. But Christians like you who act like you know everything make pursuit of the truth a pointless effort.

It is not a fact. I supplied the verses and you rejected it by splitting hairs in saying they didn’t send someone “AFTER” the guards reported their investigating findings. There was no need to send anyone as it was the duty of the guards, already posted at the sepulcher, to investigate after the stone was rolled away. This they did and they reported their findings.

The events after Easter Sunday are the entire point of the thread. You are on the wrong thread apparently.

I provided the verse that gives the account that only some of the guards left. Your assertion that none remained is unfounded.

How long did they stay there, and what did they do?

So let me see if I have your position straight on this: I quote you on several post you made and ask if you can confirm your position and that, in your opinion, is off-topic and that is why you refuse to answer those questions?

Yes.

I’m guessing you have me confused with another poster as you haven’t asked me any off-topic question that I recall. In fact all you have done is post unsubstantiated accusations against me without making one effort to provide the reasons behind it.

The confusion is on your part. You are chopping up my words instead of replying line by line. Take a look at what you ignored:

Or do I have to phrase it in the form of a question for you? Fine. Why should we be responsible for our transgressions against a set of laws written by a band of racist, sexist, genocidal, barbaric, slave-driving rapists? Happy now?

I answered this question but it is clear you do not possess the skills or perhaps the desire to comprehend the answer. The guards not only visited the sepulcher but made sure it was secured. This was rejected by you because it didn’t happen “AFTER”. They remained at their post and when they noticed the stone was rolled away investigated the sepulcher and found that Jesus’s body was no longer there.

OK let me get this straight. Your answer dealt entirely with matters occurring on Easter Sunday. You comprehend that my question is about events occurring after Easter Sunday. You claim to have answered my question.

If this thread is too nit-picky for you, then you can devote your efforts elsewhere.

“Some of the guards (“outside of Christ's circle”) upon seeing that the stone was rolled away and the sepulcher was empty went to tell the chief priests (“outside of Christ's circle”) what happened. How could the guards tell them what happened if they didn’t investigate the sepulcher? How did the chief priest know Jesus’s body was no longer in the sepulcher if the guards who were there did not tell them? Your question was answered and yet you continue to post asking the same question over and over again. Why is that?“

My question was answered? So the reason casual observers did not show up to rubberneck the empty tomb of a man who committed more miracles than could have been physically recorded is ____?

This question is on-topic but you refuse to answer it. Why is that?

The answer is pretty obvious. If the report you're getting is that the guards fell asleep and didn't see what happened, and the body is gone, YOU GO INVESTIGATE. If the report is that something supernatural happened and the body is gone, YOU GO INVESTIGATE. If not, it's because you simply don't care or are unable to physically go investigate.