The Resurrection

[throughfiierytrial]

1. I fail to see where you are responding to the OP
2. Please don't talk to me about prophecies when you failed to explain how Matthew's citation of Isaiah 7:14 is not deceptive

I never failed at an attempt to explain Isaiah 7:14 and that is unrelated to the fact that Matthew 28:11-14 is a direct response to the OP and in fact does away with the OP entirely b/c its premises is found wanting.

You also fail to recognize that the Bible word "prophecy" carries more than one meaning:
1. foreseen events
2. spiritual insight from the written Word of God.
3. proclamation of Scripture.

So then, when I say the Bible is a book of prophecy I am saying it is a very straight forward, simple book for the simple as well as a very complex book full of Truthes which are intricately woven and suitable to answer questions of all occasions for all people (God-breathed). Scripture states that the unbeliever is unable to accept spiritual truths and in fact they sound like nonsense to him. So your answer is of no surprise...thought I'd make an attempt though.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Under that umbrella excuse, can you even say there is a holy book that has gotten it wrong?

Most of them do not go into the creation of existence. It isn't needed. I have yet to read one that has gotten everything wrong, or too much of anything for that matter. All of them have minor flaws through interpretation and translation, but by studying them and remembering to go by what a written on your heart with utter honesty and lack of bias or greed, one can easily recognize the uniting, beneficial direction of each, and spot the discrepancies or opposite direction.

 

[Tawhano]

You insult my intelligence more than once. Thank you so much. Now let's see if this goes over your head:

You made it quite clear that you did not comprehend the concept of the slippery slope fallacy by your attempt to provide an example of your own which did not meet the requirements of the definition of a slippery slope. I simply brought this to your attention and tried to provide a much simpler explanation. Nothing you have posted has gone over my head. I completely see the misconceptions and unsubstantiated remarks you make trying to make an argument for your fallacious OP.

You quote me but never answer my questions nor do you directly address my comments except to whine about me insulting your intelligence. All you have been able to contribute to this thread is to repeat the same fallacious argument over and over again.

All of these sound unlikely to you

And just how do you know how that sounds to me?

All of these sound unlikely to you, but how likely do you think a resurrection sounds?

This statement lends nothing to your argument. What I think, or for that matter what you think, is irrelevant to this debate. You continually use the word “facts” and so far have not provided one fact, just your unsubstantiated opinions.

Even more bizarre is the thought that the pharisees actually did believe the guards, that they did believe a miracle occurred, and somehow did not believe Jesus was Lord.

This is the main problem with your arguments; you make unsubstantiated remarks pretending to know something that you have no possible way of knowing. Where does it say that the Pharisees believed a miracle occurred? Where does it say the guards believed a miracle occurred and reported that occurance? All we can conclude from the Biblical account is that the guards witness an earthquake and noticed the stone sealing the sepulcher was no longer in place. When they investigated they saw that the sepulcher was empty. Some of them went to report their investigative findings to the priest. The priest fearing that people would believe a miracle had happen bribed the guards to say they fell asleep and Jesus’s body was stolen. Making a conclusion of anything other than that would be pure conjecture.

Now I know this has gone over your head, so just think of it like this:

1. Your wife is murdered
2. The only "witness" somehow fell asleep, did not see the actual murder, and reports seeing one or more demons afterward
3. No investigation

Why my wife in your example? Do not think for a minute I do not see through your hateful remark.

This has not gone over my head; it has gone over yours. I already showed you, many times now, that there was an investigation. You simply repeat your fallacious argument and say none took place the day after. It makes no difference what day the investigation took place. If the sepulcher was empty when the guards investigated on Easter Sunday then the sepulcher would still be empty the day after regardless if it was a miraculous resurrection or the body was stolen. It is a fallacious argument to propose that because there was no record of an investigation a day after Easter Sunday that the miracle never happened.

If you cannot contribute anything other than the incessant repeating of your fallacious argument that no investigation after Easter Sunday means no miracle took place then you have nothing.

 

[Tawhano]

What's your source for this?

Sorry I missed this question. I explained this in post #108 and again in #180. It is from Matthew 27:62-66 and Matthew 28:11-15

 

[Tawhano]

So it would be moronic to dispatch an investigation team to see whether there are bloody footprints or bloody drag marks in the case of a resurrection claim where the person said to be raised from the dead had already been known to perform hundreds of miracles?

The answer to that is yes. The guards who were on watch investigated the sepulcher and they would have seen the blood and reported it when they reported to the priest. Seriously, do you actually have even one logical argument to submit?

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Comment to Tawhano-
Thank you for your testimony on this thread!
I should re-read, but from memory the earthquake took place when Jesus died on the cross and many holy people came out of their graves and the curtain in the temple was torn in two as well at that time.
Therefore, I believe it to be even more remarkable that the posted Roman guards who are accountable for their actions and under penalty of death report the missing body. The soldiers were guarding the tomb the entire time including the time Jesus rose...doesn't say they fell asleep or that an earthquake scattered them.
This comment is to you because I don't believe there was an earthquake while Jesus was in His sepulcher. Point being the guards had no excuse of earthquake. (That I know of).

To N.V.-
The Bible appears to confine itself to salvation matters not proofs for atheists. Therefore for fuller understanding of the Bible take this passage to heart:
Hebrews 11:6:
And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

The bible promotes slavery. I guess that settles it?

That's not entirely true.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Who wrote "The Gospel According to Matthew"?

Who wrote any of history? The side that wants their side to be heard. Our own history books are no different - we only put in them what we want the next generation to know about. Roman history did not want Jesus to be known about - and so left it out.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

The bible promotes slavery. I guess that settles it?

Slaves were commanded to be loyal, but to seek their freedom if possible.
(Slaves should Submit: ...Ephesians 6:5-6; Colossians 3:22; I Timothy 6:2; Titus 2:9; I Peter 2:18-19)
(Seek their freedom if possible:...I Corinthians 7:21-23)

Slave owners were commanded to treat their slaves kindly. (Ephesians 6:9; Colossians 4:1)

Slave traders were not viewed as being in any way fit for the Kingdom of Heaven:
I Timothy 1:8-11:
8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

We could go into OT LAW as well to see what type of slavery was originally sanctioned...the LAW provided for fairness to slaves and for their release in each Year of Jubilee. Sounds like many slaves were slaves b/c they were broke and thus sold themselves to their brothers as slaves. However, Israel also acquired slaves via conquest of heathen lands.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Where does it say that the Pharisees believed a miracle occurred? Where does it say the guards believed a miracle occurred and reported that occurance? All we can conclude from the Biblical account is that the guards witness an earthquake and noticed the stone sealing the sepulcher was no longer in place. When they investigated they saw that the sepulcher was empty.

Matthew 28:2-4 says,

And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.

His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:

And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.

And then verse 11:

Now when they were going, behold, some of the watch came into the city, and shewed unto the chief priests all the things that were done.

Had you bothered to read the accounts in Matthew then you would have seen that the answer was there.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Who wrote any of history? The side that wants their side to be heard. Our own history books are no different - we only put in them what we want the next generation to know about. Roman history did not want Jesus to be known about - and so left it out.

Another overblown persecution remark. Persecution didn't start until the fire of Rome.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Slaves were commanded to be loyal, but to seek their freedom if possible.
(Slaves should Submit: ...Ephesians 6:5-6; Colossians 3:22; I Timothy 6:2; Titus 2:9; I Peter 2:18-19)
(Seek their freedom if possible:...I Corinthians 7:21-23)

Slave owners were commanded to treat their slaves kindly. (Ephesians 6:9; Colossians 4:1)

Slave traders were not viewed as being in any way fit for the Kingdom of Heaven:
I Timothy 1:8-11:
8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

We could go into OT LAW as well to see what type of slavery was originally sanctioned...the LAW provided for fairness to slaves and for their release in each Year of Jubilee. Sounds like many slaves were slaves b/c they were broke and thus sold themselves to their brothers as slaves. However, Israel also acquired slaves via conquest of heathen lands.

Slaves set free every Jubilee... so you could be a slave from birth until your 50th birthday. How humane of them.

Also you were allowed to beat your slaves so the garbage you're saying is either a lie or else you don't know what the Bible teaches.

I never failed at an attempt to explain Isaiah 7:14 and that is unrelated to the fact that Matthew 28:11-14 is a direct response to the OP and in fact does away with the OP entirely b/c its premises is found wanting.

You also fail to recognize that the Bible word "prophecy" carries more than one meaning:
1. foreseen events
2. spiritual insight from the written Word of God.
3. proclamation of Scripture.

So then, when I say the Bible is a book of prophecy I am saying it is a very straight forward, simple book for the simple as well as a very complex book full of Truthes which are intricately woven and suitable to answer questions of all occasions for all people (God-breathed). Scripture states that the unbeliever is unable to accept spiritual truths and in fact they sound like nonsense to him. So your answer is of no surprise...thought I'd make an attempt though.

Ok. Anything else?

Comment to Tawhano-
Thank you for your testimony on this thread!
I should re-read, but from memory the earthquake took place when Jesus died on the cross and many holy people came out of their graves and the curtain in the temple was torn in two as well at that time.
Therefore, I believe it to be even more remarkable that the posted Roman guards who are accountable for their actions and under penalty of death report the missing body. The soldiers were guarding the tomb the entire time including the time Jesus rose...doesn't say they fell asleep or that an earthquake scattered them.
This comment is to you because I don't believe there was an earthquake while Jesus was in His sepulcher. Point being the guards had no excuse of earthquake. (That I know of).

To N.V.-
The Bible appears to confine itself to salvation matters not proofs for atheists. Therefore for fuller understanding of the Bible take this passage to heart:
Hebrews 11:6:
And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

Your comment to Tawhano is pretty far off. Extremely far off. Read Matthew 28.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Slaves set free every Jubilee... so you could be a slave from birth until your 50th birthday. How humane of them.

Considering slaves were often broke and had no wherewithall of their own when selling themselves to their brothers as slaves one might say slaves owed their life to their masters. Masters were to be good to their slaves...many times they were fellow Israelites and also would later be released at Jubilee.


Also you were allowed to beat your slaves so the garbage you're saying is either a lie or else you don't know what the Bible teaches.

Where do you find this bit of news in the Scriptures??

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Repost:

Slaves set free every Jubilee... so you could be a slave from birth until your 50th birthday. How humane of them.

Considering slaves were often broke and had no wherewithall of their own when selling themselves to their brothers as slaves one might say slaves owed their life to their masters. Masters were to be good to their slaves...many times they were fellow Israelites and also would later be released at Jubilee.


Also you were allowed to beat your slaves so the garbage you're saying is either a lie or else you don't know what the Bible teaches.

Where do you find this bit of news in the Scriptures??

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Repost:

Slaves set free every Jubilee... so you could be a slave from birth until your 50th birthday. How humane of them.

Considering slaves were often broke and had no wherewithall of their own when selling themselves to their brothers as slaves one might say slaves owed their life to their masters. Masters were to be good to their slaves...many times they were fellow Israelites and also would later be released at Jubilee.


Also you were allowed to beat your slaves so the garbage you're saying is either a lie or else you don't know what the Bible teaches.

Where do you find this bit of news in the Scriptures??

Exodus 21:20-21

 

[AV1611VET]

Slaves set free every Jubilee...

The Bible doesn't call them slaves.

In fact, the Bible uses a term that we should strive for: servant.

Paul used it often, and even considered himself one.

Only a small portion of the population was treated as animals.

In short, "slave" is a perjorative term for servant/bond servant.

Typical of science in action.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Slaves were commanded to be loyal, but to seek their freedom if possible.
(Slaves should Submit: ...Ephesians 6:5-6; Colossians 3:22; I Timothy 6:2; Titus 2:9; I Peter 2:18-19)
(Seek their freedom if possible:...I Corinthians 7:21-23)

Slave owners were commanded to treat their slaves kindly. (Ephesians 6:9; Colossians 4:1)

Slave traders were not viewed as being in any way fit for the Kingdom of Heaven:
I Timothy 1:8-11:
8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

We could go into OT LAW as well to see what type of slavery was originally sanctioned...the LAW provided for fairness to slaves and for their release in each Year of Jubilee. Sounds like many slaves were slaves b/c they were broke and thus sold themselves to their brothers as slaves. However, Israel also acquired slaves via conquest of heathen lands.

Slaves set free every Jubilee... so you could be a slave from birth until your 50th birthday. How humane of them.

Also you were allowed to beat your slaves so the garbage you're saying is either a lie or else you don't know what the Bible teaches.


I had forgotten about this bit of the LAW which you posted from Exodus 21:20-21...sorry.
One can make the inference that God did not like reckless living which resulted in loss of livelihood and also that as today we all face tests, trials and tribulations at time due to no fault of our own. Final and eternal consequences are in the next life so I am not as out-raged as you.

I posted NT teachings which if you were a believer you'd know over-ride the LAW. The following passage gives a clue as to the level of civility in those days:
Matthew 19:8:
Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Slaves set free every Jubilee... so you could be a slave from birth until your 50th birthday. How humane of them.

Your comment to Tawhano is pretty far off. Extremely far off. Read Matthew 28.

I did forget the earthquake upon Christ's resurrection...sorry....however, what I was relating is another part of the passion...which I state...the events at the time of Christ's death....Matthew 27:50-53

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Please fix your posts. You're attributing quotes to me which I have not said.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

I did forget the earthquake upon Christ's resurrection...sorry....however, what I was relating is another part of the passion...which I state...the events at the time of Christ's death....Matthew 27:50-53

The other earthquake is not relevant to the OP.