The Resurrection of Jesus

[Jesus is YHWH]

Where's the scripture? Did Jesus actually say that?
"My resurrected body IS FLESH and BONES."

try reading your bible, if you don't have one I will give you a link to one on the internet.

 

[Ed Parenteau]

same goes for anyone who opposes Jesus words below:

Jesus said His resurrected body IS FLESH and BONES.

next....................................

The fact He shed His blood does not make His flesh eternal. Neither does the fact that there were holes in His hands and feet and side.
That would be a contradiction to scripture. 2 Corinthians 4:18 18So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.
Are your eyes fixed on Jesus--Is He physical and therefore visible and temporary?

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

The fact He shed His blood does not make His flesh eternal. Neither does the fact that there were holes in His hands and feet and side.
That would be a contradiction to scripture. 2 Corinthians 4:18 18So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.
Are your eyes fixed on Jesus--Is He physical and therefore visible and temporary?

another misquoted verse ripped from its context to deny Jesus words post Resurrection.

a spirit does not have FLESH and bones as you see that I have.

Luke 24:39
See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.

 

[Saint Steven]

try reading your bible, if you don't have one I will give you a link to one on the internet.

More Bible reading will certainly not make me agree with your hairsplitting opinions. On the contrary.

 

[Saint Steven]

another misquoted verse ripped from its context to deny Jesus words post Resurrection.

a spirit does not have FLESH and bones as you see that I have.

Luke 24:39
See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.

So, you don't know the difference between a misquote and context?

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

So, you don't know the difference between a misquote and context?

Do you know the difference between a spirit and flesh ?

 

[Ed Parenteau]

another misquoted verse ripped from its context to deny Jesus words post Resurrection.

a spirit does not have FLESH and bones as you see that I have.

Luke 24:39
See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.

Maybe it would help if I quoted a couple of scholars from the past as to what I am trying to say.
Philippians 3:21
John Gill:
that it might be fashioned like unto his glorious body; or "the body of his glory", as it is now in heaven, and of which his transfiguration on the mount was an emblem and pledge; for glory, power, incorruption, and immortality, the bodies of the saints in the resurrection shall be like to Christ's, though not equal to it, and shall shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father.

Albert Barnes:
That it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body - Greek, "The body Of his glory;" that is, the body which he has in his glorified state. What change the body of the Redeemer underwent when he ascended to heaven, we are not informed - nor do we know what is the nature, size, appearance, or form of the body which he now has. It is certain that it is adapted to the glorious world where he dwells; that it has none of the infirmities to which it was liable when here; that it is not subject; as here, to pain or death; that it is not sustained in the same manner. The body of Christ in heaven is of the same nature as the bodies of the saints will be in the resurrection, and which the apostle calls "spiritual bodies,"

John Calvin
We see, on the one hand, in life, but chiefly in death, the present meanness of our bodies; the glory which they will have, conformably to Christ's body, is incomprehensible by us: for if the disciples could not endure the slight taste which he afforded [206] in his transfiguration, (Matthew 17:6,) which of us could attain its fullness?

 

[Saint Steven]

Do you know the difference between a spirit and flesh ?

What do you think the difference is?

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Maybe it would help if I quoted a couple of scholars from the past as to what I am trying to say.
Philippians 3:21
John Gill:
that it might be fashioned like unto his glorious body; or "the body of his glory", as it is now in heaven, and of which his transfiguration on the mount was an emblem and pledge; for glory, power, incorruption, and immortality, the bodies of the saints in the resurrection shall be like to Christ's, though not equal to it, and shall shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father.

Albert Barnes:
That it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body - Greek, "The body Of his glory;" that is, the body which he has in his glorified state. What change the body of the Redeemer underwent when he ascended to heaven, we are not informed - nor do we know what is the nature, size, appearance, or form of the body which he now has. It is certain that it is adapted to the glorious world where he dwells; that it has none of the infirmities to which it was liable when here; that it is not subject; as here, to pain or death; that it is not sustained in the same manner. The body of Christ in heaven is of the same nature as the bodies of the saints will be in the resurrection, and which the apostle calls "spiritual bodies,"

John Calvin
We see, on the one hand, in life, but chiefly in death, the present meanness of our bodies; the glory which they will have, conformably to Christ's body, is incomprehensible by us: for if the disciples could not endure the slight taste which he afforded [206] in his transfiguration, (Matthew 17:6,) which of us could attain its fullness?

try quoting them on Luke 24:39

nice try

BTW- are you REFORMED ? yes or no

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

What do you think the difference is?

I asked you

 

[Ed Parenteau]

try quoting them on Luke 24:39

nice try

BTW- are you REFORMED ? yes or no

With regards to soteriology, yes. I also agree with them 100% on the resurrection and 100% post ascension.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

try quoting them on Luke 24:39

nice try

With regards to soteriology, yes. I also agree with them 100% on the resurrection and 100% post ascension.

Then you believe Jesus is now a man with a real human body that is physical and not a spirit.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Maybe it would help if I quoted a couple of scholars from the past as to what I am trying to say.
Philippians 3:21
John Gill:
that it might be fashioned like unto his glorious body; or "the body of his glory", as it is now in heaven, and of which his transfiguration on the mount was an emblem and pledge; for glory, power, incorruption, and immortality, the bodies of the saints in the resurrection shall be like to Christ's, though not equal to it, and shall shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father.

Albert Barnes:
That it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body - Greek, "The body Of his glory;" that is, the body which he has in his glorified state. What change the body of the Redeemer underwent when he ascended to heaven, we are not informed - nor do we know what is the nature, size, appearance, or form of the body which he now has. It is certain that it is adapted to the glorious world where he dwells; that it has none of the infirmities to which it was liable when here; that it is not subject; as here, to pain or death; that it is not sustained in the same manner. The body of Christ in heaven is of the same nature as the bodies of the saints will be in the resurrection, and which the apostle calls "spiritual bodies,"

John Calvin
We see, on the one hand, in life, but chiefly in death, the present meanness of our bodies; the glory which they will have, conformably to Christ's body, is incomprehensible by us: for if the disciples could not endure the slight taste which he afforded [206] in his transfiguration, (Matthew 17:6,) which of us could attain its fullness?

Below Geisler confirms the historic position of the church with the physical material bodily Resurrection of Christ.

The New Testament declares that without Christ's bodily resurrection there is no salvation (Rom. 10:9-10). For He "was delivered up because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification" (Rom. 4:25). The physical resurrection of Christ's body is just as much a part of the gospel as His death (1 Cor. 15:1-5). The Apostle Paul insisted that if Jesus did not rise bodily from the dead, then (a) the faith of believers is useless, (b) they are still in their sins, (c) departed loved ones are lost, (d) the apostles are false witnesses, and (e) "we are of all men most to be pitied" (1 Cor. 15:14-19).!

The Orthodox View of the Resurrection Body of Christ Orthodox Christianity has always confessed two things about the resurrection body of Christ. First, it was the same physical body in which Jesus was crucified. Second, Jesus' body, at the moment it was resurrected, became an immortal, glorified body, a body that was physical but was also imperishable. Both are important to a biblical view of the resurrection, but the former is the primary focus of this discussion. In his classic History of Christian Doctrine, William G. T. Shedd noted that "the doctrine of the resurrection of the body was from the beginning a cardinal and striking tenet of the Christian *• A previous version of this argument appeared in Norman L Geisler, "The Apologetic Significance of the Bodily Resurrection of Christ," Bulletin of the Evangelical Philosophical Society 10 (1987) 15-37 148 The Significance of Christ's Physical Resurrection 149 Church."

2 Historically the bodily resurrection has been taken to mean a literal physical body. Indeed even some scholars who oppose the phrase admit that "until the time of the Reformation the creeds of the West spoke only of the resurrection of the flesh (sarkos anastasis; resurrectio carnis)."

3 The Second Creed of Epiphanius (A D. 374) confessed that Christ "suffered in the flesh; and rose again; and went into heaven in the same body, sat down gloriously at the right hand of the Father."

4 In emphasizing the material nature of the resurrection body Augustine confidently pronounced, "It is indubitable that the resurrection of Christ, and His ascension into heaven with the flesh in which He rose, is already preached and believed in the whole world."

5 The Westminster Confession (1647) reads, "On the third day He arose . . . with the same body in which He suffered" (8. 4). THE MATERIAL NATURE OF THE RESURRECTION BODY Evangelicals have always stressed the physical nature of Christ's resurrection body. To emphasize this, it was even called the resurrection of the "flesh."

6 However, many evangelical confessions have been content simply with the word "body," since the ordinary meaning implies that which is material and physical. This belief is based on the fact that at His resurrection Jesus permanently vacated the tomb in the same physical body in which He was crucified. Furthermore Jesus' resurrection body had crucifixion scars, could be seen and handled, and could eat food. Jesus even said His body was a body of "flesh and bones" (Luke 24:39). THE IMMORTAL NATURE OF THE RESURRECTION BODY In addition to the physical nature of the resurrection body evangelicals have also affirmed its immortal and imperishable dimension (1 Cor. 15:42-43). It is a glorified and heavenly body (Phil. 3:21; 1 John 3:2). That is, it is one specially suited for abode in 1 William G Τ Shedd, A History of Christian Doctrine, 2 vols (reprint, Minneapolis Klock & Klock Christian Publishers), 2 403 ^ See Murray J Harris, Raised Immortal Resurrection and Immortality in the New Testament (Grand Rapids Wm Β Eerdmans Publishing Co , 1985), ρ 132 Harris adds, "Here 'flesh' refers to the material components, the substance, of the body the flesh-body as distinct from the soul " 4 Philip Schaff, The Creeds of Christendom The Greek and Latin Creeds, 3 vols (1919, reprint, Grand Rapids Baker Book House, 1983), 2 37 5 Augustine The City of God 22 5 6 Ibid, 22 20-21 150 Bibliotheca Sacra / April-June 1989 heaven where perishable "flesh and blood" cannot enter (1 Cor. 15:50). Jesus, as the "firstfruits" of the resurrection (1 Cor. 15:20), was the first one to have a permanent, imperishable, glorified resurrection body. However, while His resurrection body is more than mortal, it is not less than physical. What is unique about the resurrection body is not a lack of materiality but the presence of imperishability (1 Cor. 15:42). Christ was not the first to be raised in a physical body (Luke 7:11-15; 8:49-56; John 11:43-44), but He was the first to be raised in an immortal physical body (1 Cor. 15:54; 2 Tim. 1:10). The others, who were resuscitated to their former life, still had their same mortal bodies. Jesus, when He was resurrected, had the same body He had before His death, but it was made immortal.

 

[Ed Parenteau]

Then you believe Jesus is now a man with a real human body that is physical and not a spirit.

No, NOT NOW in the body that was crucified, shed of its blood, beard pulled out, holes in his hands, his feet and side, but rather what I had quoted from the scholars I did. None of them held He was a human physical man after the ascension.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

No, NOT NOW in the body that was crucified, shed of its blood, beard pulled out, holes in his hands, his feet and side, but rather what I had quoted from the scholars I did. None of them held He was a human physical man after the ascension.

The you deny the historical position of the church on the Resurrection.

Here is the biblical,historic and reformed position below:

The Resurrection of Jesus

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Maybe it would help if I quoted a couple of scholars from the past as to what I am trying to say.
Philippians 3:21
John Gill:
that it might be fashioned like unto his glorious body; or "the body of his glory", as it is now in heaven, and of which his transfiguration on the mount was an emblem and pledge; for glory, power, incorruption, and immortality, the bodies of the saints in the resurrection shall be like to Christ's, though not equal to it, and shall shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father.

Albert Barnes:
That it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body - Greek, "The body Of his glory;" that is, the body which he has in his glorified state. What change the body of the Redeemer underwent when he ascended to heaven, we are not informed - nor do we know what is the nature, size, appearance, or form of the body which he now has. It is certain that it is adapted to the glorious world where he dwells; that it has none of the infirmities to which it was liable when here; that it is not subject; as here, to pain or death; that it is not sustained in the same manner. The body of Christ in heaven is of the same nature as the bodies of the saints will be in the resurrection, and which the apostle calls "spiritual bodies,"

John Calvin
We see, on the one hand, in life, but chiefly in death, the present meanness of our bodies; the glory which they will have, conformably to Christ's body, is incomprehensible by us: for if the disciples could not endure the slight taste which he afforded [206] in his transfiguration, (Matthew 17:6,) which of us could attain its fullness?

BTW at the Transfiguration Jesus was still human with a physical body.

And for the 100th time spiritual does not mean immaterial as I have proven by Pauls use of the word pneumatikos.

See here:
The Resurrection of Jesus

next.......................................................

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

What do you think the difference is?

Phil 3:20-21
For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; 21 who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.

Rom 8:11
But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you.

Believers bodies will be transformed from its current state which is corrupt, sinful mortal to a body like His which Incorruptible, Holy/Sinless and Immortal in the Resurrection as per 1 Cor 15, Romans 8:11, Phil 3:21.

And when we compare the above with Paul in these passages below we see that the body(soma) in the context is a real material body which is physical in the Resurrection but controlled completely by the Spirit in the afterlife.

Natural(psychikos) body
Spiritual(pneumatikos) body


1 Cor 15:44
it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

Below we see how Paul uses and contrasts the words natural (psychikos) and spiritual (pneumatikos) below;


1 Cor 2:14-16
14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. 15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no man.

Paul is clearly contrasting the unsaved with the saved with the natural man and spiritual man. One is controlled by the natural or the flesh while the other is controlled by the spirit/spiritual- Holy Spirit. Just like in 1 Cor 15:44 where Paul is contrasting the natural body that is controlled by the flesh with the spiritual body that is controlled by the Spirit. Both are real physical bodies but the difference is one is controlled by the flesh which is carnal and the other is controlled by the Spirit and is spiritual. One has the appetites and desires of the flesh while the other has appetites and desires controlled by the Spirit. Hence a spiritual body is one that is controlled by the Spirit of God in the Resurrection.

Paul’s usage below of spiritual(pneumatikos) in 1 Cor 10 where he calls the rock, food and drink spiritual it does not mean an immaterial rock, food and drink but a real Rock, Manna and Water which were with the Israelites in the wilderness wanderings.

1 Cor 10:1-4
For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 and all ate the same spiritual food; 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.

A spiritual man is one who is controlled by the Spirit not the flesh.

The same is true with the spiritual drink, spiritual rock and spiritual food ( manna). All were physical rocks, water and food but were supernaturally provided by God , hence they were SPIRITUAL just like the spiritual man who has a real physical body.

So in the Resurrection our spiritual bodies( soma) are still physical bodies controlled completely by the Spirit. Our heavenly bodies will be transformed from mortal to immortal, corruptible to incorruptible.

Now Paul drives home the point of our new literal physical bodies below in heaven from the text in 2nd Cor 5 below;

2 Cor 5:1-5
For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands. 2 We grow weary in our present bodies, and we long to put on our heavenly bodies like new clothing. 3 For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies. 4 While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it's not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life. 5 God himself has prepared us for this, and as a guarantee he has given us his Holy Spirit.

You see there is no bodiless spirit men in heaven unclothed(no body) but indeed with a heavenly body(like Jesus) has now in heaven which is flesh and bones like He said His Resurrected body was to His Disciples.

hope this helps,

 

[Ed Parenteau]

John 17: 4I have glorified You on earth by accomplishing the work You gave Me to do. 5And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed.
That is what Moses saw a glimpse of.
Eternity by definition is not confined to time and space. Flesh and blood means the same thing as flesh and bone. In the old testament they used the term "bone and flesh" instead of "flesh and blood."

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

John 17: 4I have glorified You on earth by accomplishing the work You gave Me to do. 5And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed.
That is what Moses saw a glimpse of.
Eternity by definition is not confined to time and space. Flesh and blood means the same thing as flesh and bone. In the old testament they used the term "bone and flesh" instead of "flesh and blood."

see posts 115-117 on this page.

 

[Ed Parenteau]

When you spoke of the Transfigured body of Christ that transformed into light, is that what you take as being His Glorious Body? Please explain.