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Featured The Resurrection of Jesus

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Jesus is YHWH, Sep 8, 2020.

  1. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

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    Without the bodily resurrection which was permanent one has no Savior and you are still dead in your sins according to the Apostle Paul. 1 Corinthians 15:17

    Many deny Jesus was Resurrected and Ascended into heaven bodily( a human body with real flesh and bones) and are still dead in their sins even though they might claim to be a christian. That is an oxymoron.

    Luke 24:37-43
    37 But they were startled and frightened and thought that they were seeing a spirit. 38 And He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39 "See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." 40 And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet. 41 While they still could not believe it because of their joy and amazement, He said to them, "Have you anything here to eat?" 42 They gave Him a piece of a broiled fish; 43 and He took it and ate it before them.

    John 20:24-25
    24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples were saying to him, "We have seen the Lord!" But he said to them, "Unless I see in His hands the imprint of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe."

    John 20:27-28
    27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Stop doubting and believe." 28 Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

    There is one Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. (1Timothy 2:5) post ascension.

    Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever.(Hebrews 13:5) Changeless, Immutable. Jesus was a man when He walked this earth, when He Ascended and when He will return again at His 2nd Coming.

    1 Corinthians 15:1-8
    Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

    3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; 7 then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; 8 and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also.

    1 Corinthians 15:14-18
    14 and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain. 15 Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised; 17 and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.

    2 Corinthians 5:1-10
    For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands. 2 We grow weary in our present bodies, and we long to put on our heavenly bodies like new clothing. 3 For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies. 4 While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it's not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life. 5 God himself has prepared us for this, and as a guarantee he has given us his Holy Spirit.6 So we are always confident, even though we know that as long as we live in these bodies we are not at home with the Lord. 7 For we live by believing and not by seeing. 8 Yes, we are fully confident, and we would rather be away from these earthly bodies, for then we will be at home with the Lord. 9 So whether we are here in this body or away from this body, our goal is to please him.


    In Heaven.... Hebrews 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken [this is] the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

    8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

    Look up the meaning of the word soma below, it always means a physical body in relation to anthropos(man).

    His Body.....Philippians 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

    Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

    Matthew 27:52-53
    52 The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

    Philippians 3:20-21
    And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

    1 Corinthians 15:44-45
    44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

    Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15 that if Christ be not risen your faith is in vain and you are still dead in your sins- an unbeliever who is lost. Those who deny the physical bodily resurrection of Jesus such as the JW's who teach that Jesus is now a spirit based being fit into this camp. They deny the resurrection.

    If we look at what Paul is saying in this passage, it is that corruptible flesh and blood shall not enter the kingdom. Paul says corruptible does not inherit the incorruptible. Paul is not saying the resurrection body will not have flesh but what he declares is that the resurrected body will not have perishable flesh. Remember in Luke Jesus said see here My hands and feet, touch Me a spirit/ghost does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have. Peter, Paul and John all agree that Jesus still had flesh well after His ascension. 1 John being the last of the books of the three Apostles declared that Jesus having come in the flesh and those who deny this are the spirit of antichrist. John makes it clear that the Incarnation was permanent. Jesus is forever both God and man. This is what Paul teaches in the whole 15th chapter of 1 Corinthians. The glorious physical bodies that we will have in the resurrection. We will have incorruptible bodies just as Jesus now has in heaven.

    hope this helps !!!
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2020
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  2. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

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    Correcting the false teaching that flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God, a spiritual body is immaterial and the meaning of a life giving Spirit.

    1 CORINTHIANS 15:50: “Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.”

    Jehovah’s Witnesses claim that Jesus could not have risen in His human body of flesh and bones, because Scripture states that “flesh and blood” cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Notice that Jesus did not say that His resurrected body was made of “flesh and blood.” Rather, He said His body was made of “flesh and bone” (Luke 24:39). This is significant because the term “flesh and blood” is often used in Scripture to refer to mortal humanity,in contrast to the imperishable, resurrected body alluded to by the phrase, “flesh and bones.”

    Far from claiming that the resurrected human body cannot inherit God’s kingdom, this passage asserts that the mortal, perishable human body (made of flesh and blood) cannot inherit the immortal, imperishable kingdom of God. Indeed as 1 Corinthians 15:53 states, “this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.”

    A spiritual body denotes an immortal body. A spiritual body is one that is dominated by the spirit, not one that is devoid of matter. The Greek word pneumatikos means a body that is directed by the spirit as opposed to one under the dominion of the flesh. It is not ruled by the flesh that perishes but by the spirit that endures. (1 Corinthians 15:50-58). A spiritual body does no mean immaterial or invisible but immortal and imperishable. Paul makes these parallels:

    Earthly- Heavenly (verse 40)
    Perishable- Imperishable (verse 42)
    Weak- Powerful(verse 43)
    Natural-Supernatural(verse 44)
    Mortal- Immortal(verse 53)

    The content shows that spiritual (pneumatikos) could be translated supernatural in contrast to natural from the parallels of perishable and imperishable, corruptible and incorruptible. Pneumatikos is translated supernatural in 1 Corinthians 10:4 regarding the supernatural rock that followed them in the wilderness. In the translation spiritual refers to physical objects. In 1 Corinthians 10:45 Paul spoke of the spiritual rock that followed Israel in the wilderness from which they got spiritual drink 1 Corinthians 10:4.But the OT story (Exodus 17,Numbers 20)reveals it was a physical rock from which they got literal water to drink. The actual water they drank from the material rock was produced supernaturally. Further Paul spoke about a spiritual man 1 Corinthians 2:15 he obviously did not mean an invisible, immaterial man with no corporeal body. He was as a matter of fact speaking of a flesh and blood human being whose life is lived by the supernatural power of God, a literal person whose life is Spirit directed. A spiritual man is one who is taught by the Spirit and who receives the things that come from the Spirit of God. (1 Corinthians 2:13-14). The resurrection body can be called a spiritual body in much the same way we speak of the bible being a spiritual book. Regardless of their spiritual source and power both the resurrection body and the bible are material objects.

    Life giving Spirit does not speak of the nature of Christ’s resurrected body but of the divine origin of the resurrection. Jesus physical body came back to life only by the power of God.(Romans 1:4). Paul is speaking about its spiritual source not its physical substance as a material body. If spirit describes the nature of Christ’s resurrected body then Adam with whom He is contrasted must not have a soul since he is described as of the earth, made of dust (verse 47). But the bible clearly says that Adam was a living soul(Genesis 2:7). Christ’s body is called a spiritual body(soma) which always means a physical body when referring to an individual human being. The resurrected body is called spiritual and life giving spirit because its source is in the spiritual realm, not because its substance is immaterial. Christ’s supernatural resurrection body is from heaven as Adams natural body was from the earth. (verse 47). But just as the one from earth has an immaterial soul even so the One from heaven has a material body. Rhodes

    hope this helps !!!
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2020
  3. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

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    Survey: Majority of American Christians Don’t Believe the Gospel( The core of the gospel is the Resurrection)

    The Story: A new survey finds that a majority of people who describe themselves as Christian accept a “works-oriented” means to God’s acceptance.

    The Background: A survey conducted by the Cultural Research Center at Arizona Christian University find that American adults today increasingly adopt a “salvation-can-be-earned” perspective. A plurality of adults (48 percent) believe that if a person is generally good, or does enough good things during their life, they will “earn” a place in heaven. Only one-third of adults (35 percent) disagree.

    A majority of Americans who describe themselves as Christian (52 percent) also accept a “works-oriented” means to God’s acceptance—even those associated with churches whose official doctrine says eternal salvation comes only from embracing Jesus Christ as savior. Almost half of all adults associated with Pentecostal (46 percent), mainline Protestant (44 percent), and evangelical (41 percent) churches, as well as nearly two-thirds of Catholics (70 percent), hold that view.

    While about 65 percent of American adults describe themselves as Christians, only about half (54 percent) believe they will experience heaven after they die. Only one-third of adults (33 percent) believe they will go to heaven solely because of confessing their sins and embracing Jesus as their savior. Another one-in-five expecting to experience heaven are counting on earning their way in or because they embrace universalism (i.e., that God will let all people into heaven).

    Among those with other views, 15 percent said they don’t know what will happen after they die; 13 percent said there is no life after death; 8 percent expect to be reincarnated; and another 8 percent believe they will go to a place of purification prior to entering heaven. A mere 2 percent believe they will go to hell.

    Based on age groups, just 20 percent of people age 18 to 29 believe that when they die they will go to heaven only because they have confessed their sins and have accepted Jesus as their savior; 30 percent of those 30 to 49 and 40 percent of adults 50 and older hold that belief. Women were more likely than men (36 percent versus, 30 percent, respectively), and those who have conservative political views were much more likely to hold that belief (52 percent) than were political moderates (28 percent) or liberals (16 percent). More than one-third of whites and blacks (35 percent each) also held this view compared to only one quarter of Hispanics did (25 percent).

    What It Means: Christians who believe that salvation can be earned need to read the New Testament.

    The Gospel of Matthew tells of a rich young man who asked Jesus what good works he must do to inherit eternal life (Matt. 19:16). Jesus responded that if the man wanted to be judged by his works, then he must keep the entire Law—and do so perfectly. The young man thought he had done enough good works to earn a place in heaven because he was judging himself by man-made standards rather than the perfect standard of God. But that’s not how it works. As the apostle James clarifies, “For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all” (Jam. 2:10).

    Because we can’t keep the Law perfectly, we have to rely on someone who did—Jesus (1 Pet. 2:22). When we believe in who Jesus and what he did our “faith is credited as righteousness” (Rom. 4:5). That the good news; that’s the gospel.

    The gospel according to Paul is simultaneously an affirmation of who Jesus is (Rom. 1:3-4) as well as of what he has done (1 Cor. 15). In Romans 1, Paul says he was “set apart for the gospel of God which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures, concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord . . .” Then, in 1 Corinthians 15, Paul adds:

    Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.

    Simon Gathercole summarizes the Pauline definition of the gospel as: God’s account of his saving activity in Jesus the Messiah, in which, by Jesus’s death and resurrection, he atones for sin and brings new creation. Our faith in Jesus, not our works, makes us right with God (Rom. 3:28).Survey: Majority of American Christians Don’t Believe the Gospel

    hope this helps !!!
     
  4. mlepfitjw

    mlepfitjw May you be blessed!

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    You are getting pretty well versed in the resurrection.
     
  5. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

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    Its has been my passion for the past 40 years. Its at the very center of the Gospel and without it our faith is vain and we are still dead in our Sins with no Savior according to Paul in 1 Corinthians 15.
     
  6. prodromos

    prodromos Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Who are these 'many' people? I can't say that I have found any who claim to be Christian yet deny the resurrection
     
  7. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

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    You would be very surprised once you start asking people about the Resurrection and if they think Jesus is still human with a real tangible body. I'm on 2 other forums where numerous people that call themselves christians and go to church regularly that deny Jesus is still a man with a human body that is immortal and incorruptible and believe He morphed into a spirit with no body.
     
  8. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Sounds like a ton of doctrinal hair-splitting to make such conclusive judgments. You seem to be claiming that the majority of Christians don't believe in the resurrection based on your claims about whether his body is now physical or spiritual. This seems like a VERY gray area to make such black and white distinctions. Here's your published headline again below. Which is not substantiated by your facts.

    Survey: Majority of American Christians Don’t Believe the Gospel( The core of the gospel is the Resurrection)
     
  9. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

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    Either Jesus BODY was Resurrected from the dead or not.

    BTW it sounds like allot of biblical exegesis on the Resurrection through decades of study on the subject. And Paul said if Christ is not Risen from the dead(bodily) your faith is in vain and you are still dead in your sins. So a persons salvation hinges on the bodily Resurrection of Jesus as per 1 Corinthians 15.

    Let me ask you this one question. Does the "spiritual " man have a real human body ? yes or no

    1 Cor 2:15
    The spiritual man judges all things, but he himself is not subject to anyone’s judgment.

    Paul contrasts the natural man with the spiritual man.

    And your hilited red above is what is known as a false dichotomy. Its not either a physical or spiritual body, its BOTH.

    hope this helps !!!
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2020
  10. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

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    1 Corinthians 15:38-41
    But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

    A summary of the bodies mentioned above are all PHYSICAL in nature

    1- people
    2- seed
    3-animals
    4-birds
    5-fish
    6- heavenly - the sun, moon and stars
    7- earthly- all inclusive 1-5

    So as we can see BODY above are all PHYSICAL in nature.


    These Greek Lexicons agree that soma is physical just like Paul declares in 1 Corinthians 15

    Every Greek Lexicon and Dictionary agrees with me regarding the Resurrected BODY(SOMA).

    Strong's Concordance
    sóma: a body
    Original Word: σῶμα, ατος, τό
    Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
    Transliteration: sóma
    Phonetic Spelling: (so'-mah)
    Definition: a body
    Usage: body, flesh;
    HELPS Word-studies
    4983 sṓmathe physical body.

    NT:4983) is "the body as a whole, the instrument of life," whether of man living, e. g., Matt 6:22, or dead, Matt 27:52; or in resurrection, 1 Cor 15:44; or of beasts, Heb 13:11; of grain, 1 Cor 15:37-38; of the heavenly hosts, 1 Cor 15:40.

    (from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, Copyright © 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers.)

    More proof soma is physical

    as in Greek writings from Hesiod down, the living body: — of animals, James 3:3; — of man: τό σῶμα, absolutely, Luke 11:34; Luke 12:23; 1 Corinthians 6:13, etc.; ἐν σώματι εἶναι, of earthly life with its troubles, Hebrews 13:3; distinguished from τό αἷμα, 1 Corinthians 11:27; τό σῶμα and τά μέλη of it, 1 Corinthians 12:12, 14-20; James 3:6; τό σῶμα the temple of τό ἅγιον πνεῦμα, 1 Corinthians 6:19; the instrument of the soul, τά διά τοῦ σωματου namely, πραχθεντα, 2 Corinthians 5:10; it is distinguished — from τό πνεῦμα, in Romans 8:10; 1 Corinthians 5:3; 1 Corinthians 6:20 Rec.; ; James 2:26 (4 Macc. 11:11); — from ἡ ψυχή, in Matthew 6:25; Matthew 10:28; Luke 12:22 (Wis. 1:4 Wis. 8:19f; 2 Macc. 7:37 2Macc. 14:38; 4 Macc. 1:28, etc.); — from ἡ ψυχή and τό πνεῦμα together, in 1 Thessalonians 5:23 (cf. Song of the Three, 63); σῶμα ψυχικόν and σῶμα πνευματικόν are distinguished, 1 Corinthians 15:44 (see πνευματικός, 1 and ψυχικός, a.); τό σῶμα τίνος, Matthew 5:29; Luke 11:34; Romans 4:19; Romans 8:23 (cf. Winer's Grammar, 187 (176)), etc.; ὁ ναός τοῦ σωματου αὐτοῦ, the temple which was his body, John 2:21; plural, Romans 1:24; 1 Corinthians 6:15; Ephesians 5:28; the genitive of the possessor is omitted where it is easily learned from the context, as 1 Corinthians 5:3; 2 Corinthians 4:10; 2 Corinthians 5:8; Hebrews 10:22(23), etc.; τό σῶμα τῆς ταπεινώσεως ἡμῶν, the body of our humiliation (subjective genitive), i. e. which we wear in this servile and lowly human life, opposed to τό σῶμα τῆς δόξης αὐτοῦ (i. e. τοῦ Χριστοῦ), the body which Christ has in his glorified state with God in heaven, Philippians 3:21; διά τοῦ σωματου τοῦ Χριστοῦ, through the death of Christ's body, Romans 7:4; διά τῆς προσφοράς τοῦ σωματου Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, through the sacrificial offering of the body of Jesus Christ, Hebrews 10:10; τό σῶμα τῆς σαρκός, the body consisting of flesh, i. e. the physical body

    Thayers Greek Lexicon
     
  11. mlepfitjw

    mlepfitjw May you be blessed!

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    There are people who believe we will be given bodies depending on the glory that we receive when we pass away.

    My thoughts on 1 Corinthians 15, have always maintained the idea of what God gives us that is pleasing to him in his sight. And that it is a spiritual body, though it is very well that I could be wrong.

    That was something my teacher taught, was building the spiritual body up here on earth, and after we leave this life, God will see that and we will receive that glory of a new body, which is spiritual.

    2 Corinthians 3:18 says, "And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit." Some translations say, "being transformed from glory to glory."
     
  12. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

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    read post 10
     
  13. mlepfitjw

    mlepfitjw May you be blessed!

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    This is the confusing part:

    There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies

    We has humans understand that we have bodies. What is a heavenly body? What is an earthly body?

    that is what im trying to get you to see.

    @Jesus is YHWH @Post 14, okay thank you.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2020
  14. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

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    I explained it in that post but I will paste it below. Follow the bold which are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies in the text.

    1-5 below are the earthly bodies
    6- are the heavenly bodies


    1 Corinthians 15:38-41
    But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

    A summary of the bodies mentioned above are all PHYSICAL in nature

    1- people
    2- seed
    3-animals
    4-birds
    5-fish
    6- heavenly - the sun, moon and stars
    7- earthly- all inclusive 1-5

    So as we can see BODY above are all PHYSICAL in nature.
     
  15. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    I think Paul's answer was to the general question of whether there even is a resurrection from the dead FOR EVERYONE not for Christ. So the point was not on the particulars, but in the broader sense. The context should bear this out. It seems that you are emphasizing something that was intended to be the emphasis. Thus you make YOUR point about the bodily resurrection to be a DENIAL of Christ's resurrection for those who either don't understand the difference or who disagree with your interpretation of it.

    1 Corinthians 15:12-17
    But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.
     
  16. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

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    The very spirit of antichrist teaches that Jesus did not come in the flesh and remain in the flesh. The bible is a whole not arts and is in perfect harmony from cover to cover and like many facets to a diamond so to are there many facets to Jesus Deity and permanent humanity as a man in the flesh.

    If we go back to the beginning of 1 John, we read that which we he beheld, and actually touched concerning the Word of life. That is a term expressing the very deity of Christ. Christ emanates from God as His living Word. He was with the Father in the beginning in 1:2. Jesus was One with the Father sharing the same essence with the Father in heaven with Him before the foundation of the world. John says He was manifested to us. John's language then starts out with the fact that Jesus Christ emanates from God as the very living Word of God. Jesus is the living Word of God,the One John says that was from the beginning that we heard, we saw and we touched. Jesus the Word of life was the eternal One who was with the Father prior to His Incarnation and was then manifested to us in the flesh that we could see and hear and touch according to John. Therefore, we can clearly see Jesus is the very Word of God Incarnate. He is the eternal life who became flesh. The Word who was with God, the Word who was God, was the One who John says was manifested to us. This is how we can tell the spirit of truth from the spirit of antichrist. Can you confess Jesus is God Incarnate?

    1 John 4:2
    By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;

    2 John 7
    For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.

    Erchomenon the present participle in 2 John 7


    Alford- the present tense is timeless(pg 274 RNTC on 2 John)

    Brooke- the Incarnation is not only an event in history, it is an abiding truth(pg 274 RNTC on 2 John)

    Stott- the two natures manhood and Godhood were united already at His birth, never to be divided. In 1 John 4:2 and here in 2 John 7 emphasizes this permanent union of the natures in the One Person ( TNTC pages 209-210) He who denies the Incarnation is not just a deceiver and an antichrist but “the deceiver and the antichrist”. There is in this heresy a double affront: it opposes Christ and deceives men.(stott TNCT page 210)

    Marshall- the use of the present and perfect tenses becomes significant if the point is that Jesus Christ had come and still existed “in flesh”. For him(John) it was axiomatic that there had been a true Incarnation, that the word became flesh and remained flesh. It is a point that receives much stress in 1 John 2:18-28;4:1-6;5:5-8. (NICNT pages 70-71)

    Smalley- the present tense emphasizes the permanent union of the human and Divine natures in Jesus. Gods self disclosure in Jesus took place at a particular moment in history , but it has continuing effects in the present and into the future(Word Biblical Commentary page 317)

    Nicoll- the continuous manifestation of the Incarnate Christ(Expositors Greek Testament Volume 5 page 202)

    Akin- Much has been made of the fact that John uses the present tense in this Christological confession. Literally the verse reads, “Jesus Christ coming in flesh.” “Coming” is a present active participle. This stands out in remarkable contrast to the affirmation of 1 John 4:2, where the text states that “Jesus Christ has [emphasis mine] come in the flesh.” There the perfect active participle is used. The key, it seems, is to discover what John is affirming. Here in 2 John the emphasis falls on the abiding reality of the incarnation. First John 4:2 teaches that the Christ, the Father’s Son (v. 3), has come in the flesh. Second John affirms that the wedding of deity and humanity has an abiding reality (cf. 1 Tim 2:5). The ontological and essential nature of the incarnation that would receive eloquent expression one thousand years later in the writing of St. Anselm (1033–1109) in his classic Cur Deus Homo is already present in seed form in the tiny and neglected letter of 2 John.


    Lenski- In 1 John 4:2 we have ἐν σαρκὶ ἐληλυθότα, the perfect participle, “as having come in flesh” (incarnate, John 1:14); here we have ἐρχόμενον ἐν σαρκί, “as coming in flesh,” although the participle is present in form it is really timeless.of Christ as "still being manifested." See the note at 1 John 3:5. In 1 John 4:2 we have the manifestation treated as a past fact by the perfect tense, ‎eleeluthota ‎"has come

    Robertson- That Jesus Christ cometh in the flesh Ieesoun ‎‎Christon ‎‎erchomenon ‎‎en ‎‎sarki‎. "Jesus Christ coming in the flesh." Present middle participle of ‎erchomai treating the Incarnation as a continuing fact which the Docetic Gnostics flatly denied. In 1 John 4:2 we have ‎eleeluthota ‎(perfect active participle) in this same construction with ‎homologeoo‎, because there the reference is to the definite historical fact of the Incarnation.
     
  17. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

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    I can also PROVE Jesus is still a man from His favorite description of Himself as the " son of man"
     
  18. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

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    I can also PROVE Jesus is still a man from His favorite description of Himself as the " son of man" .

    hope this helps !!!
     
  19. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    You appear to have changed horses midstream here.
    Originally you claimed that the majority of Christians don't believe in the resurrection of Christ. (not true) Then you qualified it by saying they don't believe in the bodily resurrection. (not true) Now you seem to be claiming they don't believe that Christ came in the flesh. Which has nothing to do with where this all started. ???
     
  20. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

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    The Resurrection of Jesus IS BODILY otherwise its not a Resurrection by definition.
     
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