Dear Fundy: As usual you blunder. Your mistakes, to add to the rest you have demonstrated to date=
1. The ages (plural) carry on for undisclosed time & are followed by additional ages.
2. There is no such dimension of being "destroyed forever"
Everlasting destruction (oleqron aiwnion).
The phrase nowhere else in N.T. In LXX, 4 Macc. x. 15. Rev. properly, eternal destruction. It is to be carefully noted that eternal and everlasting are not synonymous. See additional note at the end of this chapter.
From the presence (apo proswpou). Or face. Apo from has simply the sense of separation. Not from the time of the Lord's appearing, nor by reason of the glory of his presence. Proswpon is variously translated in A.V. Mostly face: also presence, Acts iii. 13, 19; v. 41: person, Matthew xxii. 16; Luke xx. 21; Gal. ii. 6: appearance, 2 Cor. v. 12; x. 1; fashion, Jas. i. 11. The formula ajpo proswpou or tou proswpou occurs Acts iii. 19; v. 41; vii. 45; Apoc. vi. 16; xii. 14; xx. 11. In LXX, Gen. iii. 8; iv. 14, 16; Exod. xiv. 25, and frequently.
Glory of his power (doxhv thv iscuov autou). For glory see on 1 Thessalonians ii. 12. Iscuv power, not often in Paul. It is indwelling power put forth or embodied, either aggressively or as an obstacle to resistance: physical power organized or working under individual direction. An army and a fortress are both ijscurov. The power inhering in the magistrate, which is put forth in laws or judicial decisions, is ijscuv, and makes the edicts ijscura valid and hard to resist. Dunamiv is the indwelling power which comes to manifestation in ijscuv The precise phrase used here does not appear elsewhere in N.T. In LXX, Isa. ii. 10, 19, 21. The power (dunamiv) and glory of God are associated in Matthew xxiv. 30; Mark xiii. 26; Luke xxi. 27; Apoc. iv. 11; xix. 1. Comp. kratov thv doxhv aujtou strength of his glory, Col. i. 11.
10. To be glorified (endoxasqhnai). Only here and ver. 12 in N.T. Repeatedly in LXX. See Exod. xiv. 4, 17; Isa. xlv. 26. oClass.
11. Wherefore (eiv o). Better, to which end. Comp. Col. i. 29. The end is, "that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, " ver. 5. The same thought is continued in ver. 11.
Count - worthy (axiwsh). Comp. 1 Tim. v. 17; Heb. iii. 3; x. 29. Your calling (thv klhsewv). Including both the act and the end of the Christian calling. Comp. Philip. iii. 14; 1 Thess. ii. 12; Eph. iv. 1.
All the good pleasure of his goodness (pasan eudokian agaqwsunhv). Wrong. Paul does not mean all the goodness which God ts pleased to bestow, but the delight of the Thessalonians in goodness. He prays that God may perfect their pleasure in goodness. So Weizsacker, die Freude an allem Guten. The Rev. desire for eujdokian is infelicitous, and lacks support. Agaqwsunh goodness (P. see on Rom. iii. 19) is never predicated of God in N.T. In LXX, see Neh. ix. 25, 35. Eudokia good pleasure, delight, is a purely Biblical word. As related to one's self, it means contentment, satisfaction: see Sir. xxix. 23; Ps. of Sol. iii. 4; xvi. 12. As related to others, good will, benevolence. Luke x. 21, Eph. i. 5, 9; Philip. i. 15; ii. 13; Ps. of Sol. viii. 39.
12. The name (to onoma). In no case where it is joined with Jesus, or Christ, or Lord Jesus, does it mean the title or dignity. 33 Paul follows O.T. usage, according to which the name of the Lord is often used for all that the name covers; so that the name of the Lord = the Lord himself.
ADDITIONAL NOTE ON oleqron aijwnion eternal destruction, 2 TH. i. 9.
Aiwn transliterated eon, is a period of time of longer or shorter duration, having a beginning and an end, and complete in itself. Aristotle (peri oujranou, i. 9, 15) says: "The period which includes the whole time of each one's life is called the eon of each one." Hence it often means the life of a man, as in Homer, where one's life (aiwn) is said to leave him or to consume away (Il. v. 685; Od. v. 160). It is not, however, limited to human life; it signifies any period in the course of events, as the period or age before Christ; the period of the millenniam; the mytho-logical period before the beginnings of history. The word has not "a stationary and mechanical value" (De Quincey). It does not mean a period of a fixed length for all cases. There are as many eons as entities, the respective durations of which are fixed by the normal conditions of the several entities. There is one eon of a human life, another of the life of a nation, another of a crow's life, another of an oak's life. The length of the eon depends on the subject to which it is attached.
It is sometimes translated world; world representing a period or a series of periods of time. See Matt. xii. 32; xiii. 40, 49; Luke i. 70; 1 Corinthians i. 20; ii. 6; Eph. i. 21. Similarly oiJ aijwnev the worlds, the universe, the aggregate of the ages or periods, and their contents which are included in the duration of the world. 1 Cor. ii. 7; x. 11; Heb. i. 2; ix. 26; xi. 3.
The word always carries the notion of time, and not of eternity.
It always means a period of time. Otherwise it would be impossible to account for the plural, or for such qualifying expressions as this age, or the age to come. It does not mean something endless or everlasting. To deduce that meaning from its relation to ajei is absurd; for, apart from the fact that the meaning of a word is not definitely fixed by its derivation, ajei does not signify endless duration. When the writer of the Pastoral Epistles quotes the saying that the Cretans are always (aei) liars (Tit. i. 12), he surely does not mean that the Cretans will go on Iying to all eternity. See also Acts vii. 51; 2 Cor. iv. 11; vi. 10; Heb. iii. 10; 1. Peter iii. 15. Aei means habitually or continually within the limit of the subject's life. In our colloquial dialect everlastingly is used in the same way. "The boy is everlastingly tormenting me to buy him a drum."
In the New Testament the history of the world is conceived as developed through a succession of eons.
A series of such eons precedes the introduction of a new series inaugurated by the Christian dispensation, and the end of the world and the second coming of Christ are to mark the beginning of another series. See Eph. iii. 11. Paul contemplates eons before and after the Chuistian era. Eph. i. 21; ii. 7; iii. 9, 21; 1 Corinthians x. 11; comp. Heb. ix. 26.
He includes the series of eons in one great eon, oJ aijwn twn aijwnwn the eon of the eons (Eph. iii. 21); and the author of the Epistle to the Hebrews describes the throne of God as enduring unto the eon of the eons (Heb. i. 8).
The plural is also used, eons of the eons, signifying all the successive periods which make up the sum total of the ages collectively. Rom. xvi. 27; Gal. i. 5; Philip. iv. 20, etc. This plural phrase is applied by Paul to God only.
The adjective aijwniov in like manner carries the idea of time. Neither the noun nor the adjective, in themselves, carry the sense of endless or everlasting.
They may acquire that sense by their connotation, as, on the other hand, ajidiov, which means everlasting, has its meaning limited to a given point of time in Jude 6. Aiwniov means enduring through or pertaining to a period of time. Both the noun and the adjective are applied to limited periods. Thus the phrase eijv ton aijwna, habitually rendered forever, is often used of duration which is limited in the very nature of the case. See, for a few out of many instances, LXX, Exod. xxi. 6; xxix. 9; xxxii. 13; Josh. xiv. 9; 1 Sam. viii. 13; Lev. xxv. 46; Deut. xv. 17; 1 Chronicles xxviii. 4. See also Matt. xxi. 19; John xiii. 8; 1 Cor. viii. 13. The same is true of aijwniov. Out of 150 instances in LXX, four-fifths imply limited duration. For a few instances see Gen. xlviii. 4; Numbers x. 8; xv. 15; Prov. xxii. 28; Jon. ii. 6; Hab. iii. 6; Isa. lxi. 17.
Words which are habitually applied to things temporal or material can not carry in themselves the sense of endlessness. Even when applied to God, we are not forced to render aijwniov everlasting.
Of course the life of God is endless; but the question is whether, in describing God as aijwniov,. it was intended to describe the duration of his being, or whether some different and larger idea was not contemplated. That God lives longer than men, and lives on everlastingly, and has lived everlastingly, are, no doubt, great and significant facts; yet they are not the dominant or the most impressive facts in God's relations to time. God's eternity does not stand merely or chiefly for a scale of length. It is not primarily a mathematical but a moral fact. The relations of God to time include and imply far more than the bare fact of endless continuance. They carry with them the fact that God transcends time; works on different principles and on a vaster scale than the wisdom of time provides; oversteps the conditions and the motives of time; marshals the successive eons from a point outside of time, on lines which run out into his own measureless cycles, and for sublime moral ends which the creature of threescore and ten years cannot grasp and does not even suspect.
-Dr. Marvin Vincent-
1. The ages (plural) carry on for undisclosed time & are followed by additional ages.
2. There is no such dimension of being "destroyed forever"
Everlasting destruction (oleqron aiwnion).
The phrase nowhere else in N.T. In LXX, 4 Macc. x. 15. Rev. properly, eternal destruction. It is to be carefully noted that eternal and everlasting are not synonymous. See additional note at the end of this chapter.
From the presence (apo proswpou). Or face. Apo from has simply the sense of separation. Not from the time of the Lord's appearing, nor by reason of the glory of his presence. Proswpon is variously translated in A.V. Mostly face: also presence, Acts iii. 13, 19; v. 41: person, Matthew xxii. 16; Luke xx. 21; Gal. ii. 6: appearance, 2 Cor. v. 12; x. 1; fashion, Jas. i. 11. The formula ajpo proswpou or tou proswpou occurs Acts iii. 19; v. 41; vii. 45; Apoc. vi. 16; xii. 14; xx. 11. In LXX, Gen. iii. 8; iv. 14, 16; Exod. xiv. 25, and frequently.
Glory of his power (doxhv thv iscuov autou). For glory see on 1 Thessalonians ii. 12. Iscuv power, not often in Paul. It is indwelling power put forth or embodied, either aggressively or as an obstacle to resistance: physical power organized or working under individual direction. An army and a fortress are both ijscurov. The power inhering in the magistrate, which is put forth in laws or judicial decisions, is ijscuv, and makes the edicts ijscura valid and hard to resist. Dunamiv is the indwelling power which comes to manifestation in ijscuv The precise phrase used here does not appear elsewhere in N.T. In LXX, Isa. ii. 10, 19, 21. The power (dunamiv) and glory of God are associated in Matthew xxiv. 30; Mark xiii. 26; Luke xxi. 27; Apoc. iv. 11; xix. 1. Comp. kratov thv doxhv aujtou strength of his glory, Col. i. 11.
10. To be glorified (endoxasqhnai). Only here and ver. 12 in N.T. Repeatedly in LXX. See Exod. xiv. 4, 17; Isa. xlv. 26. oClass.
11. Wherefore (eiv o). Better, to which end. Comp. Col. i. 29. The end is, "that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, " ver. 5. The same thought is continued in ver. 11.
Count - worthy (axiwsh). Comp. 1 Tim. v. 17; Heb. iii. 3; x. 29. Your calling (thv klhsewv). Including both the act and the end of the Christian calling. Comp. Philip. iii. 14; 1 Thess. ii. 12; Eph. iv. 1.
All the good pleasure of his goodness (pasan eudokian agaqwsunhv). Wrong. Paul does not mean all the goodness which God ts pleased to bestow, but the delight of the Thessalonians in goodness. He prays that God may perfect their pleasure in goodness. So Weizsacker, die Freude an allem Guten. The Rev. desire for eujdokian is infelicitous, and lacks support. Agaqwsunh goodness (P. see on Rom. iii. 19) is never predicated of God in N.T. In LXX, see Neh. ix. 25, 35. Eudokia good pleasure, delight, is a purely Biblical word. As related to one's self, it means contentment, satisfaction: see Sir. xxix. 23; Ps. of Sol. iii. 4; xvi. 12. As related to others, good will, benevolence. Luke x. 21, Eph. i. 5, 9; Philip. i. 15; ii. 13; Ps. of Sol. viii. 39.
12. The name (to onoma). In no case where it is joined with Jesus, or Christ, or Lord Jesus, does it mean the title or dignity. 33 Paul follows O.T. usage, according to which the name of the Lord is often used for all that the name covers; so that the name of the Lord = the Lord himself.
ADDITIONAL NOTE ON oleqron aijwnion eternal destruction, 2 TH. i. 9.
Aiwn transliterated eon, is a period of time of longer or shorter duration, having a beginning and an end, and complete in itself. Aristotle (peri oujranou, i. 9, 15) says: "The period which includes the whole time of each one's life is called the eon of each one." Hence it often means the life of a man, as in Homer, where one's life (aiwn) is said to leave him or to consume away (Il. v. 685; Od. v. 160). It is not, however, limited to human life; it signifies any period in the course of events, as the period or age before Christ; the period of the millenniam; the mytho-logical period before the beginnings of history. The word has not "a stationary and mechanical value" (De Quincey). It does not mean a period of a fixed length for all cases. There are as many eons as entities, the respective durations of which are fixed by the normal conditions of the several entities. There is one eon of a human life, another of the life of a nation, another of a crow's life, another of an oak's life. The length of the eon depends on the subject to which it is attached.
It is sometimes translated world; world representing a period or a series of periods of time. See Matt. xii. 32; xiii. 40, 49; Luke i. 70; 1 Corinthians i. 20; ii. 6; Eph. i. 21. Similarly oiJ aijwnev the worlds, the universe, the aggregate of the ages or periods, and their contents which are included in the duration of the world. 1 Cor. ii. 7; x. 11; Heb. i. 2; ix. 26; xi. 3.
The word always carries the notion of time, and not of eternity.
It always means a period of time. Otherwise it would be impossible to account for the plural, or for such qualifying expressions as this age, or the age to come. It does not mean something endless or everlasting. To deduce that meaning from its relation to ajei is absurd; for, apart from the fact that the meaning of a word is not definitely fixed by its derivation, ajei does not signify endless duration. When the writer of the Pastoral Epistles quotes the saying that the Cretans are always (aei) liars (Tit. i. 12), he surely does not mean that the Cretans will go on Iying to all eternity. See also Acts vii. 51; 2 Cor. iv. 11; vi. 10; Heb. iii. 10; 1. Peter iii. 15. Aei means habitually or continually within the limit of the subject's life. In our colloquial dialect everlastingly is used in the same way. "The boy is everlastingly tormenting me to buy him a drum."
In the New Testament the history of the world is conceived as developed through a succession of eons.
A series of such eons precedes the introduction of a new series inaugurated by the Christian dispensation, and the end of the world and the second coming of Christ are to mark the beginning of another series. See Eph. iii. 11. Paul contemplates eons before and after the Chuistian era. Eph. i. 21; ii. 7; iii. 9, 21; 1 Corinthians x. 11; comp. Heb. ix. 26.
He includes the series of eons in one great eon, oJ aijwn twn aijwnwn the eon of the eons (Eph. iii. 21); and the author of the Epistle to the Hebrews describes the throne of God as enduring unto the eon of the eons (Heb. i. 8).
The plural is also used, eons of the eons, signifying all the successive periods which make up the sum total of the ages collectively. Rom. xvi. 27; Gal. i. 5; Philip. iv. 20, etc. This plural phrase is applied by Paul to God only.
The adjective aijwniov in like manner carries the idea of time. Neither the noun nor the adjective, in themselves, carry the sense of endless or everlasting.
They may acquire that sense by their connotation, as, on the other hand, ajidiov, which means everlasting, has its meaning limited to a given point of time in Jude 6. Aiwniov means enduring through or pertaining to a period of time. Both the noun and the adjective are applied to limited periods. Thus the phrase eijv ton aijwna, habitually rendered forever, is often used of duration which is limited in the very nature of the case. See, for a few out of many instances, LXX, Exod. xxi. 6; xxix. 9; xxxii. 13; Josh. xiv. 9; 1 Sam. viii. 13; Lev. xxv. 46; Deut. xv. 17; 1 Chronicles xxviii. 4. See also Matt. xxi. 19; John xiii. 8; 1 Cor. viii. 13. The same is true of aijwniov. Out of 150 instances in LXX, four-fifths imply limited duration. For a few instances see Gen. xlviii. 4; Numbers x. 8; xv. 15; Prov. xxii. 28; Jon. ii. 6; Hab. iii. 6; Isa. lxi. 17.
Words which are habitually applied to things temporal or material can not carry in themselves the sense of endlessness. Even when applied to God, we are not forced to render aijwniov everlasting.
Of course the life of God is endless; but the question is whether, in describing God as aijwniov,. it was intended to describe the duration of his being, or whether some different and larger idea was not contemplated. That God lives longer than men, and lives on everlastingly, and has lived everlastingly, are, no doubt, great and significant facts; yet they are not the dominant or the most impressive facts in God's relations to time. God's eternity does not stand merely or chiefly for a scale of length. It is not primarily a mathematical but a moral fact. The relations of God to time include and imply far more than the bare fact of endless continuance. They carry with them the fact that God transcends time; works on different principles and on a vaster scale than the wisdom of time provides; oversteps the conditions and the motives of time; marshals the successive eons from a point outside of time, on lines which run out into his own measureless cycles, and for sublime moral ends which the creature of threescore and ten years cannot grasp and does not even suspect.
-Dr. Marvin Vincent-
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