The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism

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FineLinen

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Catherine Marshall

"..Nothing can be lost that is not first owned. Just as a parent is compelled by civil law to be responsible for his family and his property, so the Creator --by His own divine law--is compelled to take care of the children He has created. And that means not only caring for the good children, but for the bad ones and lost ones as well. So the word lost came to be for Mrs. Smith, a term of greatest comfort. If a person is a "lost sinner" it only means that he is temporarily separated from the Good Shepherd who owns him. The Shepherd is bound by all duties of ownership to go after all those who are lost until they are found. -Catherine Marshall- (Beyond Ourselves)

Note

Mrs. Smith= Hannah W. Smith
 
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BNR32FAN

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BNR32FAN

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Catherine Marshall

"..Nothing can be lost that is not first owned. Just as a parent is compelled by civil law to be responsible for his family and his property, so the Creator --by His own divine law--is compelled to take care of the children He has created. And that means not only caring for the good children, but for the bad ones and lost ones as well. So the word lost came to be for Mrs. Smith, a term of greatest comfort. If a person is a "lost sinner" it only means that he is temporarily separated from the Good Shepherd who owns him. The Shepherd is bound by all duties of ownership to go after all those who are lost until they are found. -Catherine Marshall- (Beyond Ourselves)

Note

Mrs. Smith= Hannah W. Smith

Where does the Bible say that everyone is a child of God?

“Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has become a child of God. And everyone who loves the Father loves his children, too. We know we love God’s children if we love God and obey his commandments. Loving God means keeping his commandments, and his commandments are not burdensome. For every child of God defeats this evil world, and we achieve this victory through our faith. And who can win this battle against the world? Only those who believe that Jesus is the Son of God.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:1-5‬

“Dear friends, let us continue to love one another, for love comes from God. Anyone who loves is a child of God and knows God. But anyone who does not love does not know God, for God is love.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭4:7-8‬

“Dear children, don’t let anyone deceive you about this: When people do what is right, it shows that they are righteous, even as Christ is righteous. But when people keep on sinning, it shows that they belong to the devil, who has been sinning since the beginning. But the Son of God came to destroy the works of the devil. Those who have been born into God’s family do not make a practice of sinning, because God’s life is in them. So they can’t keep on sinning, because they are children of God. So now we can tell who are children of God and who are children of the devil. Anyone who does not live righteously and does not love other believers does not belong to God.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:7-10‬
 
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FineLinen

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I’m curious how universalists explain the book of life? Only those written in the book of life will be saved and the Bible says those who worship the beast and the world are not written in the book of life.

Dear BNR: In Hebr. 12 we read of of coming to Mt. Zion & to "firstborn" who are enrolled in heaven. I believe these are the very ones whose names are recorded in heaven in Luke's gospel. The book of life is the continuation of that theme.

The world at large is oblivious to the Realm of God, lost in sin and despair. Their appetites are their God requiring an intervention from Abba. Our God is consuming fire, He also is the Limne of Theos that radiates with theion. I have strong confidence that meeting Him in either environment involves radical change & transformation!

'God IS the Saviour of all mankind

especially

those who believe/ trust in Him. Command this & teach this"
 
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BNR32FAN

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Dear BNR: In Hebr. 12 we read of of coming to Mt. Zion & to "firstborn" who are enrolled in heaven. I believe these are the very ones whose names are recorded in heaven in Luke's gospel. The book of life is the continuation of that theme.

The world at large is oblivious to the Realm of God, lost in sin and despair. Their appetites are their God requiring an intervention from Abba. Our God is consuming fire, He also is the Limne of Theos that radiates with theion. I have strong confidence that meeting Him in either environment involves radical change & transformation!

'God IS the Saviour of all mankind

especially

those who believe/ trust in Him. Command this & teach this"

I don’t see what your talking about in Hebrews 12. The book of life was written before creation so I also don’t understand what you mean by it being a continuation of those mentioned in Hebrews 12. The book of life was written by God’s foreknowledge of who would endure and be victorious over the world.
 
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FineLinen

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I don’t see what your talking about in Hebrews 12. The book of life was written before creation so I also don’t understand what you mean by it being a continuation of those mentioned in Hebrews 12. The book of life was written by God’s foreknowledge of who would endure and be victorious over the world.

Dear BNR: My friend, the book of life and the firstborn are both flowing from the God who calls the "especially" to His side. They are the first fruits of His love & grace and the crowning work of what follows in the "all the more" working of reconciliation extending to the ta panta.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Dear BNR: My friend, the book of life and the firstborn are both flowing from the God who calls the "especially" to His side. They are the first fruits of His love & grace and the crowning work of what follows in the "all the more" working of reconciliation extending to the ta panta.

So what about all the verses pertaining to those who will not enter heaven? The goats for example or the tares, or the branches who are cut off from the vine (Jesus),

““Don’t be afraid of those who want to kill your body; they cannot touch your soul. Fear only God, who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭10:28‬

How does this result in salvation?
 
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FineLinen

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So what about all the verses pertaining to those who will not enter heaven? The goats for example or the tares, or the branches who are cut off from the vine (Jesus),

““Don’t be afraid of those who want to kill your body; they cannot touch your soul. Fear only God, who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭10:28‬

How does this result in salvation?

Dear BNR: Have you ever considered the context of St. Matthew 25? Why in this one chapter is the Master speaking of virgins (5 wise & 5 foolish) but virgins, not harlots or loose women, pure virgins. Why is the Master speaking of investors (some investing carelessly), and lastly, why is the Master speaking of two clean animals (sheep & goats) rather than one clean and one unclean: why?
 
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ClementofA

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I’m curious how universalists explain the book of life? Only those written in the book of life will be saved and the Bible says those who worship the beast and the world are not written in the book of life.

Where does the Bible say anyone will never be written in the book of life?

Everyone will obtain life & justification:

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."
Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."

Paul makes a parallel between "the many" who were condemned & sinners and those who will be justified & constituted just.

“In Romans 5, the justification is co-extensive with the condemnation. Since all share in one, all share in the other. If only a certain portion of the human race had partaken of the sin of Adam, only a certain portion would partake of the justification of Christ. But St. Paul affirms all to have been involved in one, and all to be included in the other.”

Therefore there is salvation after death. And corrective punishment.

Jesus shall see of the travail of His soul & be satisfied. Not satisfied a little bit, but the vast majority fried alive forever.

"He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities." (Isa.53:11).

For how "many" (not few) did He "bear their iniquities"? All.

"Paul declares, however, that the effects of Christ's obedience are far greater for mankind than the effect of Adam's fall. For the third (5:15) and fourth (5:17) times in this chapter he makes explicit use of the 'qal wahomer' ("from minor to major") form of argument that is commonly used in rabbinic literature, expressed by "much more"...cf. earlier use at 5:9,10...And as in the case of the typology previously used (5:14), here, too, the form of the argument is antithetical. The grace of God extended to humanity in the event of Christ's death has abounded "for the many" (5:15b), which corresponds to the "all" of 5:12,18. The free gift given by God in Christ more than matches the sin of Adam and its effects; it exceeds it..."

"Contrasts are also seen in the results of the work of each. Adam's trespass or disobedience has brought condemnation (κατάκριμα, 5:18); through his act many were made sinners (5:19). Christ's "act of righteousness" results in "justification of life" (δικαίωσιν ζωῆς) for all (5:18). The term δικαίωσιν can be translated as "justification" (NIV, NRSV; but RSV has "acquittal") - the opposite of "condemnation". The word ζωῆς ("of life") is a genitive of result, providing the outcome of justification, so that the phrase may be rendered "justification resulting in life". 108

108. BDAG 250 (δικαίωσιν): "acquittal that brings life". The construction is variously called a "genitive of apposition", an "epexegetical genitive" or "genitive of purpose". Cf. BDF 92 (S166). The meaning is the same in each case: justification which brings life."

"The universality of grace in Christ is shown to surpass the universality of sin. Christ's "act of righteousness" is the opposite of Adam's "tresspass" and equivalent to Christ's "obedience", which was fulfilled in his being obedient unto death (Phil 2:8). The results of Christ's righteous action and obedience are "justification resulting in life for all persons"...5:18...and "righteousness" for "many" (5:19). The term "many" in 5:19 is equivalent to "all persons", and that is so for four reasons: (1) the parallel in 5:18 speaks in its favor; (2) even as within 5:19 itself, "many were made sinners" applies to all mankind, so "many will be made righteous" applies to all; (3) the same parallelism appears in 5:15, at which "many" refers to "all"; and (4) the phrase "for many" is a Semitism which means "all", as in Deutero-Isaiah 52:14; 53:11-12; Mark...10:45; 14:24; Heb.12:15. The background for Paul's expression is set forth in Deutero-Isaiah, where it is said that "the righteous one"...the Lord's servant, shall make "many" to be accounted righteous, and he shall bear their sins ...Isa.53:11..."

"It is significant, and even astounding, that justification is here said to be world-embracing. Nothing is said about faith as a prerequisite for justification to be effective, nor about faith's accepting it."

(Paul's Letter To The Romans: A Commentary, Arland J. Hultgren, Eerdmans, 2011, 804 pg, p.227, 229)
 
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BNR32FAN

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Dear BNR: Have you ever considered the context of St. Matthew 25? Why in this one chapter is the Master speaking of virgins (5 wise & 5 foolish) but virgins, not harlots or loose women, pure virgins. Why is the Master speaking of investors (some investing carelessly), and lastly, why is the Master speaking of two clean animals (sheep & goats) rather than one clean and one unclean: why?

I don’t know
 
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ClementofA

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So what about all the verses pertaining to those who will not enter heaven?

The Bible never says anyone will never enter heaven.

The goats for example or the tares, or the branches who are cut off from the vine (Jesus),

““Don’t be afraid of those who want to kill your body; they cannot touch your soul. Fear only God, who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭10:28‬

How does this result in salvation?

That has been addressed many times before in this forum.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.

God "can" destroy. That doesn't mean He will. Nor does "destroy" mean endless annihilation.

In the book of Daniel King Nebuchadnezzar lost his soul when God made him act insanely like an animal for 7 years. God's destruction/ruining of the kings' soul meant the loss of his soul for the king.

Likewise the prodigal son "lost" (same Greek word as "destroyed" in Mt.10:28) his soul when he left his father for the world. Later when he "came back to his senses", he "found" his soul. His Father said his son was "dead" and "lost" (i.e. destroyed). Though he was obviously never annihilated.

How is it that God is "able" to destroy body & soul in Gehenna. Supposedly if angels cast people into it, that in itself could destroy their mortal bodies, due to the fires in Gehenna. But how would literal fire destroy a non corporeal soul? If Satan & demons are there to possess people, just casting them into Gehenna could result in them being spiritually & psychologically destroyed/ruined in a multitude of ways we cannot even imagine, e.g. demon possession. I'm sure that experienced shrinks have a bit of an idea of what that might involve. Or deliverance ministers/exorcists.

Not only is God "able" to destroy [or ruin, lose] both body and soul...Jesus followers are told they must destroy their own souls to "find" them:

Mt.10:39 He who is finding his soul will be destroying it, and he who destroys his soul on My account will be finding it. clv
Mt.10:28 And do not fear those who are killing the body, yet are not able to kill the soul. Yet be fearing Him, rather, Who is able to destroy the soul as well as the body in Gehenna.

Others can kill your body, but not your soul. God can destroy soul and body in Gehenna. v.28

You can destroy your own soul. v.39...that is, ruin it.

By speaking of destroying your own soul, v.39 refers not to endless annihilation of your soul. So, in context, neither does verse 28 when God speaks of destroying a soul.

If you don't willingly destroy your soul (v.39) in this life, God will/is able to do it for you in the afterlife (v.28). But whether He does it for you or not, you will surely destroy your own soul by "finding" it (v.39) in this life. Since you destroy [but not annihilate] your own soul by finding it, why would God need to destroy it again, even though He is "able"? Though it is conceivable He could destroy it to a greater degree than it was destroyed before. Especially if people in Gehenna continued to rebel and harden themselves...cf Lk.11:26; Mt.12:45...7 times worse can occur. Scripture speaks of evil men shall becoming worse and worse, of the deep things of satan some have known, being possessed with a legion of demons, & few and many stripes (Lk.12:47-48).

What does it mean that God "can" ruin or destroy a soul in Gehenna? Would this be ruin as in cessation of existence or something like a spiritual death as in, for example, dead in sins (Eph.2:1)? Or as in what God did to the king in the book of Daniel in making him act like an animal for 7 years, before returning his soul back to sanity, resulting in him being humbled & worshiping God? Or, as in being delivered to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme (1 Tim.1:20)? BTW, Satan will be there in the LOF with human blasphemers.
Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme (1 Tim.1:20).

Even in this life one can be delivered to Satan for destruction that one may be saved:
1 Cor.5:5 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

Of course the spiritually dead are already dead in sins. But this does not preclude there being various degrees of spiritual deadness or destruction (i.e. ruin) of their souls.

Similarly the Scriptures speak of those who are worthy of few stripes & others who are worthy of many stripes, & similarly. Surely a distinction is to be made between a relatively innocent infant or child, a rebellious teenager & those who have apostacized from the faith, or demons & Satan. It is conceivable that it is always possible for the spiritually dead to experience greater degrees of destruction to their souls should they continue to rebel in the LOF and until they finally repent. Though, ever given the choice to turn to God, it is mathematically impossible that they would continue to reject God for eternity.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.

A building that is "destroyed" is not annihilated forever or even annihilated. It is ruined. Then it can be rebuilt, restored or repaired. Like the fixing of a car engine:

"When shopping for a used car, one of the kinds of vehicles that buyers may come across is rebuilt cars. While there are slight variations from state to state, rebuilt cars are cars that have been, through accident or other means, totaled and repaired or rebuilt from the ground up."

As to the meaning of the word "destroy", Websters' first definition is "ruin" and second definition is to "put out of existence":

Definition of DESTROY

A common definition of "destroy":

"ruin (someone) emotionally or spiritually.
"he has been determined to destroy her" "

The same Greek word at Mt.10:28 for "destroy" is used of the "lost" [destroyed, ruined, damaged] prodigal son who was later found, who was said to be dead, but later became alive.

The same Greek word is used later in Mt.10:

Mt.10:39 He who is finding his soul will be destroying it, and he who destroys his soul on My account will be finding it. clv

By speaking of "destroying" our own "soul" [v.39] did Jesus mean we could annihilate it out of existence? Evidently not. So why should we think He meant annihilation of the soul earlier in the context [v.28] when speaking of the exact same thing, i.e. a soul being destroyed?

A passage in Matthew that has been interpreted as speaking of the possibility of release from "hell" (Gehenna) is:

Matt 5:25-26 . .Come to terms quickly with your adversary before it is too late and you are dragged into court, handed over to an officer, and thrown in jail. I assure you that you won't be free again until you have paid the last penny.

This is spoken of by Jesus in the context of references to Gehenna, both before and after this passage.

Mt.18:23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. 24 And when he had begun to reckon...

34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Furthermore, the context of Matthew 5:25-26, both before & after those 2 verses, is making references to Gehenna. Verses 21-26 have to do with anger & being reconciled & v.22 warns of Gehenna. In verses 27-30 the subject is adultery & v.30 warns regarding Gehenna.

Matt 5:25-26 Come to terms quickly with your adversary before it is too late and you are dragged into court, handed over to an officer, and thrown in jail. I assure you that you won't be free again until you have paid the last penny.

"They must pay (as GMac says) the uttermost farthing -- which is to say, they must tender the forgiveness of their brethren that is owed, the repentance and sorrow for sin that is owed, etc. Otherwise they do stay in prison with the tormenters. (their guilt? their hate? their own filthiness?) At last resort, if they still refuse to let go that nasty pet they've been stroking, they must even suffer the outer darkness. God will remove Himself from them to the extent that He can do so without causing their existence to cease. As Tom Talbot points out so well, no sane person of free will (and the child must be sane and informed to have freedom) could possibly choose ultimate horror over ultimate delight throughout the unending ages."

Why affirm belief in Hell?

Matthew was probably written to Jews & in the opening chapter of this book he told his readers that Jesus shall save His people from their sins (1:21), i.e. His people Israel (2:6). I take that to include people like Judas Iscariot & wicked Pharisees who died in their sins. But lest anyone think that is a licence to live sinfully, Jesus gives warnings such as those in Mt.10:28.
 
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FineLinen

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My friend: That is an excellent answer! This is your mission: open your being to the anointing of the Holy Ghost and let Him speak to you. This is the cornerstone passage of fundamentalism for "everlasting punishment", but alas, like many things surrounding our God, completely beyond our thinking.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Where does the Bible say anyone will never be written in the book of life?

“Then death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the second death. And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:14-15‬

“Nothing evil will be allowed to enter, nor anyone who practices shameful idolatry and dishonesty—but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:27‬

“And all the people who belong to this world worshiped the beast. They are the ones whose names were not written in the Book of Life that belongs to the Lamb who was slaughtered before the world was made.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭13:8‬

“The beast you saw was once alive but isn’t now. And yet he will soon come up out of the bottomless pit and go to eternal destruction. And the people who belong to this world, whose names were not written in the Book of Life before the world was made, will be amazed at the reappearance of this beast who had died.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:8‬

Where does the Bible say anyone will never be written in the book of life?

Everyone will obtain life & justification:

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."
Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."

Paul makes a parallel between "the many" who were condemned & sinners and those who will be justified & constituted just.

“In Romans 5, the justification is co-extensive with the condemnation. Since all share in one, all share in the other. If only a certain portion of the human race had partaken of the sin of Adam, only a certain portion would partake of the justification of Christ. But St. Paul affirms all to have been involved in one, and all to be included in the other.”

Therefore there is salvation after death. And corrective punishment.

Jesus shall see of the travail of His soul & be satisfied. Not satisfied a little bit, but the vast majority fried alive forever.

"He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities." (Isa.53:11).

For how "many" (not few) did He "bear their iniquities"? All.

"Paul declares, however, that the effects of Christ's obedience are far greater for mankind than the effect of Adam's fall. For the third (5:15) and fourth (5:17) times in this chapter he makes explicit use of the 'qal wahomer' ("from minor to major") form of argument that is commonly used in rabbinic literature, expressed by "much more"...cf. earlier use at 5:9,10...And as in the case of the typology previously used (5:14), here, too, the form of the argument is antithetical. The grace of God extended to humanity in the event of Christ's death has abounded "for the many" (5:15b), which corresponds to the "all" of 5:12,18. The free gift given by God in Christ more than matches the sin of Adam and its effects; it exceeds it..."

"Contrasts are also seen in the results of the work of each. Adam's trespass or disobedience has brought condemnation (κατάκριμα, 5:18); through his act many were made sinners (5:19). Christ's "act of righteousness" results in "justification of life" (δικαίωσιν ζωῆς) for all (5:18). The term δικαίωσιν can be translated as "justification" (NIV, NRSV; but RSV has "acquittal") - the opposite of "condemnation". The word ζωῆς ("of life") is a genitive of result, providing the outcome of justification, so that the phrase may be rendered "justification resulting in life". 108

108. BDAG 250 (δικαίωσιν): "acquittal that brings life". The construction is variously called a "genitive of apposition", an "epexegetical genitive" or "genitive of purpose". Cf. BDF 92 (S166). The meaning is the same in each case: justification which brings life."

"The universality of grace in Christ is shown to surpass the universality of sin. Christ's "act of righteousness" is the opposite of Adam's "tresspass" and equivalent to Christ's "obedience", which was fulfilled in his being obedient unto death (Phil 2:8). The results of Christ's righteous action and obedience are "justification resulting in life for all persons"...5:18...and "righteousness" for "many" (5:19). The term "many" in 5:19 is equivalent to "all persons", and that is so for four reasons: (1) the parallel in 5:18 speaks in its favor; (2) even as within 5:19 itself, "many were made sinners" applies to all mankind, so "many will be made righteous" applies to all; (3) the same parallelism appears in 5:15, at which "many" refers to "all"; and (4) the phrase "for many" is a Semitism which means "all", as in Deutero-Isaiah 52:14; 53:11-12; Mark...10:45; 14:24; Heb.12:15. The background for Paul's expression is set forth in Deutero-Isaiah, where it is said that "the righteous one"...the Lord's servant, shall make "many" to be accounted righteous, and he shall bear their sins ...Isa.53:11..."

"It is significant, and even astounding, that justification is here said to be world-embracing. Nothing is said about faith as a prerequisite for justification to be effective, nor about faith's accepting it."

(Paul's Letter To The Romans: A Commentary, Arland J. Hultgren, Eerdmans, 2011, 804 pg, p.227, 229)

Im sorry but that is total nonsense and while looking at the only the verses shown in this example it can appear to be true except when you compare it to other scriptures.

““Don’t be afraid of those who want to kill your body; they cannot touch your soul. Fear only God, who can destroy both soul and body in hell.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭10:28‬

If Christ’s atonement is for the sins of all men why do nonbelievers go to the lake of fire?
 
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FineLinen

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If Christ’s atonement is for the sins of all men why do nonbelievers go to the lake of fire?
Dear BNR: There is no "if"!

"Jesus Christ is the propitiation for our sins

AND

Not for our sins ONLY/monon

BUT

For the sins of the WHOLE world"

My friend: Jesus Christ is the hilasmos of the holos!

The Lake of Fire=

The Limne of Theos. The Limne radiates with theion. The foundation for theion=Theos

Your question= "why do unbelievers go there?"

I do not intend to overload you, but the Limne & our God the consuming fire is the destination for ALL. Some will not be hurt by the 2nd death because they have been hurt over, and over & over again: there is nothing left to "hurt". I will leave it there for now, but rest assured there is no "free ride"!
 
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BNR32FAN

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The Bible never says anyone will never enter heaven.

““Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:21

Not everyone will enter. If they will not enter that means never. If they were to ever enter heaven even later in the future then everyone who calls out to Him Lord Lord will enter heaven and Jesus’ statement is false. Now you might try to argue that they will later do the will of God and be allowed to enter but that still means that everyone who calls Lord Lord will enter. So the Bible does say that some will never enter heaven.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Dear BNR: There is no "if"!

"Jesus Christ is the propitiation for our sins

AND

Not for our sins ONLY/monon

BUT

For the sins of the WHOLE world"

My friend: Jesus Christ is the hilasmos of the holos!

The Lake of Fire=

The Limne of Theos. The Limne radiates with theion. The foundation for theion=Theos

Your question= "why do unbelievers go there?"

I do not intend to overload you, but the Limne & our God the consuming fire is the destination for ALL. Some will not be hurt by the 2nd death because they have been hurt over, and over & over again: there is nothing left to "hurt". I will leave it there for now, but rest assured there is no "free ride"!

Then you believe people will suffer for their sins? Like a universal purgatory?
 
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BNR32FAN

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My friend: That is an excellent answer! This is your mission: open your being to the anointing of the Holy Ghost and let Him speak to you. This is the cornerstone passage of fundamentalism for "everlasting punishment", but alas, like many things surrounding our God, completely beyond our thinking.

I’m not going to try to read into what is not there. If I had to guess I would say these similarities could represent believers. Some were obedient and produced fruit and some did not. The disobedient ones who didn’t produce fruit were condemned to the lake of fire. That’s what I see.
 
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