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Sure it's a Pauline expression that indicates the blessings and callings for the faithful.
People are dead in sin if they do not believe in Christ, and that means they do not have life, and they wont see life either.
John 3:36
He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
If you shall not see life, well then, your going to see nothing but death, physical and spiritual death.
All naturally born creatures see natural death. Only spiritually born of God people have spiritual life.
Holy angels never die, since they did not sin. The devil and his angels, and the demons are all spiritually dead too, otherwise they would live eternally with God having the divine nature of eternal life. Interesting to think the devil who is a spirit is spiritually dead. The slave does not abide in the house of the Lord forever, all those enslaved to sin are separated from life and die eventually being cut off the true vine, Christ who is the resurrection and the life..
Those who are spiritually dead are not in Christ.
I have thought about it, and rethought it and presently revisiting the topic again.
You guys try to pass yourself as well versed and pious but truth is I don't think you care what the Scriptures teach.
Their names are not found written in the book of life, no they are not the redeemed of the Lord.
i will leave it to others stronger than i...
i can no longer STAND to even hear about the hate, the fear, the cruelty
i just got up, and i'm going to work... have 'fun' y'all
God loves the whole world (Jn.3:16). He's not an eternal sadist.
Mt.18:23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. 24 And when he had begun to reckon...
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
Furthermore, the context of Matthew 5:25-26, both before & after those 2 verses, is making references to Gehenna. Verses 21-26 have to do with anger & being reconciled & v.22 warns of Gehenna. In verses 27-30 the subject is adultery & v.30 warns regarding Gehenna.
Matt 5:25-26 Come to terms quickly with your adversary before it is too late and you are dragged into court, handed over to an officer, and thrown in jail. I assure you that you won't be free again until you have paid the last penny.
"They must pay (as GMac says) the uttermost farthing -- which is to say, they must tender the forgiveness of their brethren that is owed, the repentance and sorrow for sin that is owed, etc. Otherwise they do stay in prison with the tormenters. (their guilt? their hate? their own filthiness?) At last resort, if they still refuse to let go that nasty pet they've been stroking, they must even suffer the outer darkness. God will remove Himself from them to the extent that He can do so without causing their existence to cease. As Tom Talbot points out so well, no sane person of free will (and the child must be sane and informed to have freedom) could possibly choose ultimate horror over ultimate delight throughout the unending ages." https://forum.evangelicaluniversalist.com/t/why-affirm-belief-in-hell/4967/12
Do you see the words "SONS OF MEN" or "Lord's people":
Lamentations 3:22 and 3:31-33, The steadfast love of the Lord NEVER ceases, his mercies NEVER come to an end. . . .
Lam.3:31 For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:
32 For if He causes grief, Then He will have compassion According to His abundant lovingkindness. 33 For He does not afflict willingly Or grieve the SONS OF MEN.…
Death will be abolished (1 Cor.15:26). Then God will be "all in all" (v.28), and all who were in Adam will be "in Christ" (v.22).
"Just as surely as the abolition of slavery entails freedom for those formerly enslaved, the abolition of death entails life for those formerly dead."
Of course, like all sinners, which all men are before salvation, they must be saved before they can enter the New Jerusalem. That's why it's gates will never be shut.
On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. (Rev.21:25)
The kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it:
24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. 25 On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. 26 The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it.
How can they do that unless they were outside the city gates before?
"In the Book of Revelation, the phrase "kings of the earth" appears 7 times in Rev 6:15; 17:2,18; 18:3,9; 19:19; 21:24. In all but the last citation the kings of the earth are portrayed in Revelation as aligned with Mystery Babylon and are the enemies of God. Yet, in 21:24 we find that the "kings of the earth" will one day bring their splendor into the New Jerusalem. One must therefore ask how or why are the kings of the earth who are consistently and without exception portrayed in Revelation as evil and unrepentant, allowed into the New Jerusalem where "nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life" (21:27). I cannot find any scriptural evidence that these kings of the earth are any different than the previous references. Therefore the only conclusion I can arrive at is it that appears that even the kings of the earth after having spent some unknown time in the lake of fire will one day repent and be allowed to enter into the New Jerusalem."
Nothing anywhere about being released from.perdition.This includes everyone in the universe, including the dead and demons:
This sounds like just payback, not endless annihilation or tortures:
Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."
Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."
Paul makes a parallel between "the many" who were condemned & sinners and those who will be justified & constituted just.
“In Romans 5, the justification is co-extensive with the condemnation. Since all share in one, all share in the other. If only a certain portion of the human race had partaken of the sin of Adam, only a certain portion would partake of the justification of Christ. But St. Paul affirms all to have been involved in one, and all to be included in the other
Sure they do if they survive final judgment. In Christ is a key Pauline expression, if not in Christ you are lost. Now my journey has been a mere 35 years but in that time I took the pains to learn the Scriptures, even pursuing a bachelors in Bible and theology. The subject matter here is something I only recently started taking seriously but I thought you guys were just some harmless Jehovah's Witnesses spouting something from the Watchtower and tract society. Turns out you not but a much more hardened movement. So since I have an interest in apologetics and pursue work in doctrine I decided I take a closer look at this. My friends who told me about this I thought were exaggerating, they didnt tell the half of it. It's Ben a while since I went wholesale apologetic on an issue but this one warrents it. Let the expositions roll on.Union in Christ Jesus comes as a result of the call of God as He draws each one to Himself. For me, it began 60 years ago. The final demonstration radiates out to every dimension of the heavens, the earth & the underworld. All dimensions ultimately worship IN the Name of Jesus. Every last one, in every dimension!
Wrong! And who cares what - you - [erroneously] think about us? Keep your vain imaginations to yourself. See also Rev.21:8 about liars.
Of course, like all sinners, which all men are before salvation, they must be saved before they can enter the New Jerusalem. That's why it's gates will never be shut.
On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. (Rev.21:25)
The kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it:
24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. 25 On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. 26 The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it.
How can they do that unless they were outside the city gates before?
"In the Book of Revelation, the phrase "kings of the earth" appears 7 times in Rev 6:15; 17:2,18; 18:3,9; 19:19; 21:24. In all but the last citation the kings of the earth are portrayed in Revelation as aligned with Mystery Babylon and are the enemies of God. Yet, in 21:24 we find that the "kings of the earth" will one day bring their splendor into the New Jerusalem. One must therefore ask how or why are the kings of the earth who are consistently and without exception portrayed in Revelation as evil and unrepentant, allowed into the New Jerusalem where "nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life" (21:27). I cannot find any scriptural evidence that these kings of the earth are any different than the previous references. Therefore the only conclusion I can arrive at is it that appears that even the kings of the earth after having spent some unknown time in the lake of fire will one day repent and be allowed to enter into the New Jerusalem."
An interesting attempt at an exegesis but I'm not seeing much there supporting universalism.My friend Mark: you take all the time you so desire. It may take less than the 10 years Hillsage took, but in the end as you wait before Him, your revisiting will bear fruit!
My friend Jonathan Mitchell has taken 22 years translating the koine Greek. You will hopefully appreciate the following>>>>
ETERNAL (EONIAN) LIFE – ALL – JUDGMENT
http://jonathanmitchellnewtestament.com/jonathan-s-writings/eternal-eonian-life/
HEY!!!!! fudge off!!!!Oh stop with the mellodrama, its not hate or fear or cruel to speak the truth in love. It's what happens when you tell Christians one thing and the Scrptures say another. Have a nice day at work.
You bring this up in the controversial theology forum, knowing it will provoke a reaction from Bible believing Christian, and complain your bliss is being disturbed. I know what your talking about and God's remedy for the children of perdition is to destroy body and soul in the lake of fire. What your teaching is contrary to Scripture, expect to be corrected eArly and often. If you were having problems over this doctrine the reaction is to repent and recieve the Savior by faith. Not flatly contradict the clear testimony of Scripture.HEY!!!!! fudge off!!!!
i wasn't talking about YOU and YOUR pathetic attempts to make inroads into our bliss...
i was talking about 'the hate, the fear, the cruelty' of THE DOCTRINE OF ETERNAL HELL
it drove me insane, and I don't like to listen to the people who love it, not anymore...
i would have talked with you if you had watched the videos, but you are not here to learn... so i'm just going to treat you like the troll you are...
THE DOCTRINE OF ETERNAL HELL is not melodrama, you git... if you THOUGHT about what it REALLY means, i think you would go insane too... unless you are a sociopath or a psychopath...
this isn't my thread, i didn't bring it up lolYou bring this up in the controversial theology forum, knowing it will provoke a reaction from Bible believing Christian, and complain your bliss is being disturbed. I know what your talking about and God's remedy for the children of perdition is to destroy body and soul in the lake of fire. What your teaching is contrary to Scripture, expect to be corrected eArly and often. If you were having problems over this doctrine the reaction is to repent and recieve the Savior by faith. Not flatly contradict the clear testimony of Scripture.
What I've been shown are some careless and erroneous expositions these Universalist evangelists can't defend. I'm glad your blissfull, I'm feeling pretty good about the subject matter myself. I've did a fair amount of reading since being introduced to the subject matter and you guys haven't even scratched the surface of the proof text burden. We will see how it goes and I'm here to learn, but my interest is how Universalists reason, I already know how they do an exposition and it's less then impressive.this isn't my thread, i didn't bring it up lol
i don't mind provoking a reaction in people who are WILLING TO LEARN
and i said my bliss WASN'T being disturbed!!!
if God would have corrected me early and often, i would have listened
but He has shown me the truth.
and you flatter yourself if you think you can 'correct' something God has settled my heart in.
that's silly, if you REFUSE to watch a video that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that ALL will be saved... you could have seen how we reason... we reason with reason of courseWhat I've been shown are some careless and erroneous expositions these Universalist evangelists can't defend. I'm glad your blissfull, I'm feeling pretty good about the subject matter myself. I've did a fair amount of reading since being introduced to the subject matter and you guys haven't even scratched the surface of the proof text burden. We will see how it goes and I'm here to learn, but my interest is how Universalists reason, I already know how they do an exposition and it's less then impressive.
Look if you have some video you want me to watch then link it, I assume it's on YouTube. You keep saying you sent it to me and I got no idea what your talking about. As far as toys, what toys, I spent a couple of days reviewing universalism from a biblical perspective which is how I cam to take the subject matter seriously.that's silly, if you REFUSE to watch a video that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that ALL will be saved... you could have seen how we reason... we reason with reason of course
but you are not willing to watch something that proves our position, so i see no reason to keep talking to you, and i'll leave you to the boys.
No God offers you a choice, the truth of God or a lie but men suppress the truth in unrighteousness.
here is the video that proves all means ALL (every one)Look if you have some video you want me to watch then link it, I assume it's on YouTube. You keep saying you sent it to me and I got no idea what your talking about.
An interesting attempt at an exegesis but I'm not seeing much there supporting universalism.
What on earth could that possibly mean, it certainly doesn't pertain to the passage I paraphrased from Romans 1.Sorry Mark: no choices! "You did not (NOT) choose Me">>>>>
"I chose you..."
I don't think so, I think you guys have ran out of material, that's what I think. That's how it usually happens to, first there is this long discussion with expositions and detailed discussion. Pretty soon the posts shrink in a downward spirals until all that is left is pedantic personal remarks, the inevitable ad hominem. I understand you well, I just disagree because you don't know the Scriptures. Basic skills could have guided you around these hazards but you seem oblivious to the natural context these verses you quote are taken from.Dear Mark: It is evident you do not see! I assure you much is evading your grasp, much indeed!
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