The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism

[Noxot]

seeing all things in the light of love in the liberty of the Son of God frees ones view from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

 

[needhugs]

i typed it in google, and i got up to 'destroy' and google finished my sentence with stuff like 'the temple' and such, but there was ZERO finishing of my sentence when i typed in 'the works of the devil'

i found this page http://www.samstorms.com/enjoying-god-blog/post/jesus-came-to-destroy-the-works-of-the-devil

which effectively says NOTHING lol except that we are fighting a defeated foe

there must be something!

i have been thru 'deliverance' before, and the demons just laughed.

 

[Pneuma3]

maybe it was the scripture in John... let me find it again... in some version, when i first saw it, it said 'and if they listen, they shall be saved' and God made that scripture SLAM into my heart, i knew it was a secret only i knew lol but i still chose to believe

John 5:25
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

https://www.biblestudytools.com/john/5-25-compare.html

i've shown people that scripture before, and they said 'oh that's just about the resurrection'

and i thought maybe i had the wrong scripture, but it says 'and now is' so that's not the resurrection... AND it seems there is a choice whether to listen to Jesus or not, and that's not the ressurection either... BUT there are a lot of people who think that the soul sleeps until the resurrection. and for various reasons, including this one, i don't believe that.

Hi hugs, i am pretty sure it was in Revelation, just not sure were the exact location but I think it was the scriptures that I used in my second post.

Anyway it was like a slap in the face wake up that I have never been able to get out of my head, not that I would want to.

 

[needhugs]

Hi hugs, i am pretty sure it was in Revelation, just not sure were the exact location but I think it was the scriptures that I used in my second post.

Anyway it was like a slap in the face wake up that I have never been able to get out of my head, not that I would want to.

yeah!! same with that John scripture for me!! totally NEVER got it out of my head! but since i had never heard of anything like UR... well, i thought it was a secret between me and God

i wonder which scripture it was in revelation??(hint hint, repost lol) THAT'S an awesome place to put 'revelation of a second chance'

you know what's odd tho? i got demonized in the late 90's and i TRIED to become a Christian but failed... and I got that John scripture way back THEN...

i got in WORSE demonic trouble in 2001, and that time, God came to save me, gave me visions and answers to questions, the works

but, gosh, it took YEARS for me to let go of the doctrine of ET!!!

it actually was only a few months ago that i threw myself down and RESAID the sinner's prayer to THE REAL Jesus Who DOESN'T burn people for ETERNITY!!

not that i was getting 'a different Jesus'... but i remembered that scripture where Jesus said 'you do not know what spirit you are of'

His disciples thought they were being Godly, as in OT Godly, and Jesus clearly said it was some sort of wrong spirit, and i just think that teaching people, or believing it oneself, that God burns people for eternity, well THAT'S a wrong spirit!!!

 

[Pneuma3]

yeah!! same with that John scripture for me!! totally NEVER got it out of my head! but since i had never heard of anything like UR... well, i thought it was a secret between me and God

i wonder which scripture it was in revelation??(hint hint, repost lol) THAT'S an awesome place to put 'revelation of a second chance'

you know what's odd tho? i got demonized in the late 90's and i TRIED to become a Christian but failed... and I got that John scripture way back THEN...

i got in WORSE demonic trouble in 2001, and that time, God came to save me, gave me visions and answers to questions, the works

but, gosh, it took YEARS for me to let go of the doctrine of ET!!!

it actually was only a few months ago that i threw myself down and RESAID the sinner's prayer to THE REAL Jesus Who DOESN'T burn people for ETERNITY!!

not that i was getting 'a different Jesus'... but i remembered that scripture where Jesus said 'you do not know what spirit you are of'

His disciples thought they were being Godly, as in OT Godly, and Jesus clearly said it was some sort of wrong spirit, and i just think that teaching people, or believing it oneself, that God burns people for eternity, well THAT'S a wrong spirit!!!

Lol never thought of that but it is an awesome place to get a revelation.

I have used that same scripture in exactly that way hugs.

 

[needhugs]

Lol never thought of that but it is an awesome place to get a revelation.

I have used that same scripture in exactly that way hugs.

lol you know what else i was thinking?

how dispensationalists say there there is a different gospel for each age?

i was thinking about how UR is probably the gospel for the last age spoken of in the Bible

where the lion and the lamb lay together, and all the tears are wiped away...

because i've been demonized horribly since the 90's and it wasn't until i resaid the sinner's prayer like that, that i started getting better... and now? i feel so good it's kinda bizzare!

i can still feel demons, and can't help but think of 'submit to God, resist the devil, and he will flee'... i have NEVER been able to figure out what makes the devil flee!!! and i daresay that nobody else has either... especially those in deliverance ministries!!

Now it all depends on how you read Revelation... if you read it as a thing to come in this world, or if you read it as symbology... if it's symbology then you WANT to talk to the Jesus at the end of the Book lol 'know wha i'm sayin'?

i mean it wouldn't be in the Bible if it wasn't 'there' for us, right?

 

[Pneuma3]

lol you know what else i was thinking?

how dispensationalists say there there is a different gospel for each age?

i was thinking about how UR is probably the gospel for the last age spoken of in the Bible

where the lion and the lamb lay together, and all the tears are wiped away...

because i've been demonized horribly since the 90's and it wasn't until i resaid the sinner's prayer like that, that i started getting better... and now? i feel so good it's kinda bizzare!

i can still feel demons, and can't help but think of 'submit to God, resist the devil, and he will flee'... i have NEVER been able to figure out what makes the devil flee!!! and i daresay that nobody else has either... especially those in deliverance ministries!!

Now it all depends on how you read Revelation... if you read it as a thing to come in this world, or if you read it as symbology... if it's symbology then you WANT to talk to the Jesus at the end of the Book lol 'know wha i'm sayin'?

I see it more as the gospel of the ages as scripture testifies that the restitution of all things was in the mouth of all the holy prophets of old.

Revelation is indeed a strange book as it is all about the revealing of Christ and Christ in us.

 

[needhugs]

I see it more as the gospel of the ages as scripture testifies that the restitution of all things was in the mouth of all the holy prophets of old.

Revelation is indeed a strange book as it is all about the revealing of Christ and Christ in us.

so we agree then? i mean i'm not SURE if i believe the Revelation is about our personal journey but, i'm teetering on the edge of believing it... why do YOU believe that? has it been 'revealed' to you?

and i have sorta believed that about the WHOLE BIBLE as well... that it can be read that way i mean, on some higher spiritual level, it's our journey... but i'm more inclined to just read that way about Revelation

 

[Anto9us]

Isa 11:6

The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.


The LION and the LAMB are both Jesus.

 

[needhugs]

Isa 11:6

The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.


The LION and the LAMB are both Jesus.

don't open up THAT can of worms!! it's a mandela effect

 

[FineLinen]

I define perfection as an ascending forever.

Rev 14:11 (ESV2011)
And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”

Perhaps friend, you would like to define aionios in relation to aidios and olam. If you have the slightest struggle, Clement of A will help you (Yes, & Pneuma.) Just seek and you will have your assistance.

Revelation 14:11 (YLT) "and the smoke of their torment doth go up to ages of ages; and they have no rest day and night, who are bowing before the beast and his image, also if any doth receive the mark of his name."

Remember Rule #1

"From Him the all comes, through Him the all exists, and in Him the all ends..."

Ta pante= the all.

 

[Noxot]

Perhaps friend, you would like to define aionios in relation to aidios and olam. If you have the slightest struggle, Clement of A will help you (Yes, & Pneuma.) Just seek and you will have your assistance.

Revelation 14:11 (YLT) "and the smoke of their torment doth go up to ages of ages; and they have no rest day and night, who are bowing before the beast and his image, also if any doth receive the mark of his name."

Remember Rule #1

"From Him the all comes, through Him the all exists, and in Him the all ends..."

Ta pante= the all.

I was wondering what "ta pante" means. now I noticed it looks similar to pantokrator. I see why now.

yes the king of kings the lord of lords the god of gods holy of holies ect, all means the same thing to me.

I do see in revelation a image of the process of salvation. I see how the harlot is the virgin and the beast is our flesh and ect. I see it as this:

 

[FineLinen]

Perfect=

Brought to consummation or completeness; completed.

Not defective nor redundant.

Having all the properties or qualities requisite to its nature and kind;

Without flaw, fault, or blemish;

Without error; mature; whole; pure; sound; right; correct.

A complete and satisfactory close in harmony.

A tense which expresses an act or state completed.

To make perfect; to finish or complete, so as to leave nothing wanting; to give to anything all that is requisite to its nature and kind.

Rectitude=

Straightness.

Rightness of principle or practice.

Exact conformity to truth by Divine laws.

Uprightness of mind.

Uprightness/ integrity/ honesty/ justice.

Right judgment.

Assured probity.

High ideal.

Incorruptibility.

Pure/stainless/unimpeachable/worthy.

 

[FineLinen]

I was wondering what "ta pante" means. now I noticed it looks similar to pantokrator. I see why now.

You now know the strongest word for all in Scripture!

The King of kings, and Lord of lords hopefully will advance your understanding a mite further!

Yes, Aidios, found only twice in Scripture is the only word which means eternal and is in union with pantokratór

http://biblehub.com/greek/3841.htm

 

[Pneuma3]

so we agree then? i mean i'm not SURE if i believe the Revelation is about our personal journey but, i'm teetering on the edge of believing it... why do YOU believe that? has it been 'revealed' to you?

and i have sorta believed that about the WHOLE BIBLE as well... that it can be read that way i mean, on some higher spiritual level, it's our journey... but i'm more inclined to just read that way about Revelation

sorry for keep popping in and out on ya hugs but I am at work right now so get interrupted, you would think they would realize that I have better things to do

Anyway I see the whole bible as speaking of the inner and outer or the old and new man. Much, if not all, of the conflict we read about in the OT is about the conflict within. I see it this way because scripture in the NT tells me that the OT was written in shadow but the body is of Christ.

 

[needhugs]

sorry for keep popping in and out on ya hugs but I am at work right now so get interrupted, you would think they would realize that I have better things to do

Anyway I see the whole bible as speaking of the inner and outer or the old and new man. Much, if not all, of the conflict we read about in the OT is about the conflict within. I see it this way because scripture in the NT tells me that the OT was written in shadow but the body is of Christ.

some times peeps just don't understand lol but that's ok, i'm usually sitting here doing nothing, so it could get out of hand fast if you responded right away lol

i had a terrrible spiritual journey that made me think of the Bible that way, but i wasn't sure if it was a 'doctrine of demons' or not... it kind of does make sense to think of it that way, but i just don't knoooow.

 

[FineLinen]

Please Note

To you out there in internet land who are following this wee corner of this link>>>>>>>

I make all things new

More than a few have charged that universalists operate with an overly sentimental conception of God's love. But no one actually reads the early Christian universalists, such as Origen or St. Gregory of Nyssa, could possibly come away with that conception.

If anything, the idea that God will in the end destroy sin altogether rests upon a more rigorous conception of God's holy love than does the idea that He will keep sin alive throughout an eternity of hell.

For according to the former idea, God will not permit any us to cling forever to our allusions or to remain forever ignorant of the true nature of our selfish choices. We are free to sin and perhaps even to sin with relative impunity for a while, but in no way are we free to sin with impunity forever.

So unless we first repent of our sin and step into the life that Christ brings to us, God will sooner or later--in the next life, if not in this one--permit our illusions to shatter against the hard rock of reality.

In that respect, God's holy love is a consuming fire, it will continue to burn us until it finally purges us of all that is false within us. The more we freely rebel against it and try to defeat it, the more deeply and inexorably it will burn, until every conceivable motive for disobedience is consumed and we are finally transformed from the inside out.

And so God will eventually destroy sin in the only way short of annihilation: by redeeming the sinners themselves.

 

[FineLinen]

Two of the parables of Christ are responsible more than anything else for the prevailing views of future judgment. The catch phrases from these two parables, which have been quoted more than any others, and upon which the terrific structure of the doctrine of endless punishment has been erected, are possibly the two phrases, one of which is found in the story of the rich man and Lazarus, where Abraham is reported to have said, "Between us and you there is a great gulf fixed"; and the equally much quoted verse in the parable of the sheep and the goats, which contains the sentence of the King, "These shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal."

By means of these, and perhaps several other striking and isolated fragments, the process of the reasoning out of the truth concerning future judgment has been inverted. Instead of ascertaining from Scripture, by a general survey of its teaching on this great subject, upon what principle God will judge mankind, and then fitting in these parables in their proper niches, the method of framing the teaching upon these parables has been followed, and then making all the teaching of Scripture fall into line. It is little wonder that the utmost confusion has resulted.

God In Judgement Continued Below

http://www.theheraldofgodsgrace.org/Saxby/GodInCreationRedemptionJudgmentAndConsummation.htm

 

[FineLinen]

"Through one trespass the judgment came Upon ALL MEN. To condemnation.

EVEN SO

Through one righteous act. The free gift came. Upon ALL MEN. To justification of life.

How shall I describe the blessing that came to my own soul when Jesus Christ revealed to me that as potent as was the power of Adam's disobedience, mightier yet is the power contained in the OBEDIENCE OF THE SON OF GOD. All the languages and dialects of earth do not contain words meaningful enough to describe the immensity of the all embracing work of Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God. I fully expect that I will be misunderstood in these things, but I am assured by the Lord Jesus that one day the truth of it will be common knowledge, and all Christians and all people will be forced to acknowledge it. I suppose that all the arguments and persuasions in the world will not convince some saints today of the incontrovertible truth of the words under consideration:

"Therefore as by the offense of one judgment came upon ALL MEN to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon ALL MEN unto justification of life.

For as by one man's disobedience many (Greek: "the many" - all) were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many (Greek: "the many" - all) be made righteous. Moreover the law entered, that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, GRACE DID MUCH MORE ABOUND" (Rom. 5:18-20).

The Amplified Bible renders verse 20: "But then Law came in, only to expand and increase the trespass. But where sin increased and abounded, GRACE HAS SURPASSED IT AND INCREASED THE MORE AND SUPERABOUNDED."

Grace did "much more" abound. More. MUCH MORE! My deepest prayer is that God may grant understanding to all who read these lines that you may see the wonderful significance of the word "more." You can never comprehend the greatness of God's love, the majesty of His the glories of His Kingdom in the bright ages yet to come purpose, nor unless your spirit can grasp this word "more."

"More" is that which goes beyond the limits.

A pound of beans is a set limit. I pay 53 cents for a pound package of beans. But if I find in my bag a pound and a half or two pounds, that is "more." It surpasses the limits of the 53 cents. I am amazed, delighted, happy, and a sense of well-being pervades me; someone has done MORE than required or paid for. It has a language all its own. That language of MORE THAN is what the Bible is teaching from the first verse in Genesis to the last verse in Revelation. That is what GOD IS AND DOES. That is what LOVE IS AND DOES. That is what GRACE IS AND DOES. That is what SALVATION IS AND DOES!

God Will Have All Men Be Saved - J. Preston Eby

 

[needhugs]

Please Note

To you out there in internet land who are following this wee corner of this link>>>>>>>

I make all things new

More than a few have charged that universalists operate with an overly sentimental conception of God's love. But no one actually reads the early Christian universalists, such as Origen or St. Gregory of Nyssa, could possibly come away with that conception.

If anything, the idea that God will in the end destroy sin altogether rests upon a more rigorous conception of God's holy love than does the idea that He will keep sin alive throughout an eternity of hell.

For according to the former idea, God will not permit any us to cling forever to our allusions or to remain forever ignorant of the true nature of our selfish choices. We are free to sin and perhaps even to sin with relative impunity for a while, but in no way are we free to sin with impunity forever.

So unless we first repent of our sin and step into the life that Christ brings to us, God will sooner or later--in the next life, if not in this one--permit our illusions to shatter against the hard rock of reality.

In that respect, God's holy love is a consuming fire, it will continue to burn us until it finally purges us of all that is false within us. The more we freely rebel against it and try to defeat it, the more deeply and inexorably it will burn, until every conceivable motive for disobedience is consumed and we are finally transformed from the inside out.

And so God will eventually destroy sin in the only way short of annihilation: by redeeming the sinners themselves.

Tell me... have you ever had a full-body electric BUZZZZ!!! from God that leaves you with new knowledge and understanding? that makes you believe a HUGE concept you previously DENIED? That steals away a life time of anger and changes it into gentleness?

well i have had those things, and while it is 'shocking' and INTENSE!!! it does NOT HURT!!!! God can change anyone of anything by that means... God does not need even a temporary hell, just to TOTALLY WIPE OUT SIN.. it's simple, loving and easy for Him.

why would He choose to hurt us? or 'let' us suffer when it is so easy? That's God's own secret... or maybe it's just coz we BELIEVE He 'lets' us suffer...

When i asked God 'WHEN???' because He had promised me healing... He told me that i was like Joseph, and I had to wait... wait to learn? learn what? and is it something that could be taught with a buzz-hug??

Joseph is an OT dude, and if we are correct that the Bible, on a higher spiritual level, is about our personal journey to the end of the Book... i have to ask myself, what am i still doing in the OT???

Tho God told me that many years ago, and now that I'm the UR type, and have my eye on the END of the Book... He has recently given me the faith that i'm already healed... i think He did that last week or so...

am i still like Joseph? maybe not, and maybe that's why i don't have to wait anymore, i have the healing (by faith)

if the Bible is our journey, it's interesting to note that the oldest book is the Book of Job... back then, look at the predicament we were in!! lol