The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism

FineLinen · Jul 29, 2019

Dear Hillsage: Think of all we are learning. Every word of Scripture is "plain and clearly stated." 2000 years ago the Master called disciples unto Himself: His words were clear "You did NOT choose me." Today 2000 years later we have evolved in the Churchianity world to>>> "You must choose Me."

It is always a pleasure seeing you again. BNR, must come by the way of disclosure, without which he will wander among the gravestones of orthodoxy. Maybe, just maybe, He will come to the One who changes crawling creatures into butterflies by metamoroo!

BNR32FAN · Jul 29, 2019

And yet still no one has explained how universalism doesn’t contradict the verses I’ve given. Luke 12:10, Mark 3:29, Matthew 12:31 and Matthew 7:21. They always seem to go off on a different subject instead of addressing these verses.

FineLinen · Jul 29, 2019

BNR32FAN said:
And yet still no one has explained how universalism doesn’t contradict the verses I’ve given. Luke 12:10, Mark 3:29, Matthew 12:31 and Matthew 7:21. They always seem to go off on a different subject instead of addressing these verses.

Dear BNR: My suggestion to you is stand in the Blaze of His Presence & ask Him to disclose Himself to you.

“Earth's crammed with heaven,
And every common bush afire with God,
But only he who sees takes off his shoes;
The rest sit round and pluck blackberries.”

BNR32FAN · Jul 29, 2019

FineLinen said:
Dear BNR: My suggestion to you is stand in the Blaze of His Presence & ask Him to disclose Himself to you.

I pray for guidance and understanding of His word every day.

Saint Steven · Jul 29, 2019

Hillsage said:
… There are those who have been indoctrinated to believe that yielding an inch on any doctrine is 'forsaking the faith' (though no such verse exists). Therefore they cling so tightly to the 'shouted lie' that they can never hear the Spirit as He 'whispers the truth'.

That is so true.

FineLinen · Jul 29, 2019

BNR32FAN said:
I pray for guidance and understanding of His word every day.

Dear BNR: Keep praying, and while you pray listen!

"Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing."

The quote of the day=

The Scriptures are "plain and clearly stated."

Saint Steven · Jul 29, 2019

BNR32FAN said:
The term “the ages” means forever which also means eternal. The definition of eternal not only means without beginning or end it can also mean without end. I already showed you examples in the scriptures that both forms of the word can mean eternal, everlasting, or forever. Aion does not typically imply a temporary situation.

Which of these two options best describe where you are at with Universalism?
1) You hope it is true and want to have a better understanding of it.
2) You know it is false and hope to disprove it.

Lazarus Short · Jul 29, 2019

BNR32FAN said:
And yet still no one has explained how universalism doesn’t contradict the verses I’ve given. Luke 12:10, Mark 3:29, Matthew 12:31 and Matthew 7:21. They always seem to go off on a different subject instead of addressing these verses.

Luke 12:10 - "...it shall not be forgiven." I know I always come back to this, but if that sin is never, ever forgiven, how is God to become All in all? But He is.

Mark 3:29 - I looked this one up in an interlinear format, and came across that pesky word "aionios." We can argue over this "forever," but the definition I find on Biblehub has both "agelong" and "eternal." Take your pick, but keep in mind that "eternal," "forever" and "forever and ever" are not set in stone.

Matthew 12:31 - As per Luke 12:10.

Matthew 7:21 - Does this verse state that those of "not every one" will NEVER do the the Will of the Father? No, it does not, and UR teaches that God will transform ALL into those that do. What the Word does state is that EVERY knee will bow, EVERY tongue confess...and God will be All in all.

Saint Steven · Jul 29, 2019

Lazarus Short said:
Luke 12:10 - "...it shall not be forgiven." I know I always come back to this, but if that sin is never, ever forgiven, how is God to become All in all? But He is.

Mark 3:29 - I looked this one up in an interlinear format, and came across that pesky word "aionios." We can argue over this "forever," but the definition I find on Biblehub has both "agelong" and "eternal." Take your pick, but keep in mind that "eternal," "forever" and "forever and ever" are not set in stone.

Matthew 12:31 - As per Luke 12:10.

Matthew 7:21 - Does this verse state that those of "not every one" will NEVER do the the Will of the Father? No, it does not, and UR teaches that God will transform ALL into those that do. What the Word does state is that EVERY knee will bow, EVERY tongue confess...and God will be All in all.

In reference to every knee bowing and every tongue confessing Jesus Christ is Lord...
No one can say "Jesus is Lord" except by the Holy Spirit.

So how is it that everyone "in heaven and on earth and under the earth" will "acknowledge" Jesus Christ as Lord? Only by the indwelling Spirit. Who has the indwelling Spirit? (the redeemed of the Lord)

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Philippians 2:9-11
Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

FineLinen · Jul 29, 2019

Saint Steven said:
In reference to every knee bowing and every tongue confessing Jesus Christ is Lord...
No one can say "Jesus is Lord" except by the Holy Spirit.

So how is it that everyone "in heaven and on earth and under the earth" will "acknowledge" Jesus Christ as Lord? Only by the indwelling Spirit. Who has the indwelling Spirit?

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Philippians 2:9-11
Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

Dear Steve: the bowing and confession is not by perfunctory genuflections at the sound of His holy Name, but IN/EN that Name. Yes, and every dimension of creation in the heavens, the earth, and the underworld joins in antiphonal worship!

Every knee, every tongue, every dimension!

FineLinen · Jul 29, 2019

Lazarus Short said:
Luke 12:10 - "...it shall not be forgiven." I know I always come back to this, but if that sin is never, ever forgiven, how is God to become All in all? But He is.

Mark 3:29 - I looked this one up in an interlinear format, and came across that pesky word "aionios." We can argue over this "forever," but the definition I find on Biblehub has both "agelong" and "eternal." Take your pick, but keep in mind that "eternal," "forever" and "forever and ever" are not set in stone.

Matthew 12:31 - As per Luke 12:10.

Matthew 7:21 - Does this verse state that those of "not every one" will NEVER do the the Will of the Father? No, it does not, and UR teaches that God will transform ALL into those that do. What the Word does state is that EVERY knee will bow, EVERY tongue confess...and God will be All in all.

Dear Laz: it is always a joy seeing you. I have been down at my favorite place of contemplation again tonight and heard this in my old being>>>>

"Are your ears awake? Listen. Listen to the Wind Words, the Spirit blowing through the churches. I’ll give the sacred manna to every conqueror...."

Ah, "the wind words" blowing upon us, what a glorious message for awakened ears to hear!

FineLinen · Jul 29, 2019

The Judgment of God -John Gavazonni-

I dare say that, for the average person, the thought of facing the judgment of God is not a pleasant one. Even with those who, by their own estimation, expect to be greeted with glowing commendation by the One who has the final say as to the worth of our works, beneath their facade of self-righteousness, lies an insecurity that drives their attempts at self-assurance: create said facade so it, in effect, will speak back to them, "see all the good things you have amassed; they prove you're a good person whose goodness will be recognized by God." It's the constant pressure of keeping such insecurity suppressed that made the Pharisees of old, and makes the contemporary versions, so really miserable and unattractive.>>>>

The Judgment of God

Index Of Writings Of John Gavazzoni

Lazarus Short · Jul 29, 2019

Saint Steven said:
In reference to every knee bowing and every tongue confessing Jesus Christ is Lord...
No one can say "Jesus is Lord" except by the Holy Spirit.

So how is it that everyone "in heaven and on earth and under the earth" will "acknowledge" Jesus Christ as Lord? Only by the indwelling Spirit. Who has the indwelling Spirit?

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Philippians 2:9-11
Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

Do you limit the Holy Spirit so much? Just as I, a confident atheist, was dragged into the Kingdom, almost kicking and screaming...so will ALL be remade, just as Jesus the Christ boasted that He has/will make ALL things new, into new beings willing and able to bow the knee and confess with the tongue. Do you doubt this?

Saint Steven · Jul 30, 2019

Lazarus Short said:
Do you limit the Holy Spirit so much? Just as I, a confident atheist, was dragged into the Kingdom, almost kicking and screaming...so will ALL be remade, just as Jesus the Christ boasted that He has/will make ALL things new, into new beings willing and able to bow the knee and confess with the tongue. Do you doubt this?

Sorry. I wondered if my post was clear, or if some might mistake what I had written.
I edited my question by adding my obvious answer.

Who has the indwelling Spirit? (the redeemed of the Lord)

Therefore all will be restored as indicated by the needed Holy Spirit to make the declaration that Jesus Christ is Lord.

Testimony.
While I was involved in prison ministry I was dealing with a disruptor in one of our meetings. I asked him to say "Jesus Christ is Lord." He couldn't do it. I pressed him to say it. After all it was "just four words." Why should that be a problem? He rattled on and on with all the reasons he couldn't say it. I had to interrupt him each time to request he say it. He finally got up and stormed out of the room and we were free of the distraction. I had discerned that there was a spirit at work in him. This test seemed to prove it.

BNR32FAN · Jul 30, 2019

Lazarus Short said:
Luke 12:10 - "...it shall not be forgiven." I know I always come back to this, but if that sin is never, ever forgiven, how is God to become All in all? But He is.

Mark 3:29 - I looked this one up in an interlinear format, and came across that pesky word "aionios." We can argue over this "forever," but the definition I find on Biblehub has both "agelong" and "eternal." Take your pick, but keep in mind that "eternal," "forever" and "forever and ever" are not set in stone.

Matthew 12:31 - As per Luke 12:10.

Matthew 7:21 - Does this verse state that those of "not every one" will NEVER do the the Will of the Father? No, it does not, and UR teaches that God will transform ALL into those that do. What the Word does state is that EVERY knee will bow, EVERY tongue confess...and God will be All in all.

What verse are you referring to saying that God is all in all? In what context is that verse referring to? Ephesians 1:22 is referring to His church. Ephesians 4:4-6 May be referring to His church or may be referring to God’s reign. It’s hard to say exactly.

“And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1:22-23‬ ‭NASB‬‬

“There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:4-6‬ ‭NASB‬‬

So this phrase “all in all” does not negate what Jesus said in Luke 12:10 as it does not apply to all people according to the context in which it is used. All are not in the body and all who are under God’s reign are not promised to receive salvation. This is why universalism stands on shaky ground because it rests on extremely vague verses interpreted in such a way that it contradicts verses that are clearly and plainly stated. There is no question about what Luke 12:10 is referring to exactly.

As for Mark 3:29, the scriptures cannot contradict themselves. These are parallel verses to Luke 12;10 and Matthew 12:31-32. If Luke 12:10 says blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven and Matthew 12:31 says the exact same thing then the terms aion and aionis cannot refer to a temporary situation. The way universalists interpret these verses makes them contradictory to one another instead of interpreting them the only way that they are not contradictory to one another.

Matthew 7:21
“"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭NASB

If universalists are correct then all who say to Him Lord Lord will enter heaven and again Luke 12:10 and Matthew 12:31 are contradicted. It doesn’t line up with all scripture without contradiction.

Hillsage · Jul 30, 2019

Saint Steven said:
Sorry. I wondered if my post was clear, or if some might mistake what I had written.
I edited my question by adding my obvious answer.

Who has the indwelling Spirit? (the redeemed of the Lord)

Therefore all will be restored as indicated by the needed Holy Spirit to make the declaration that Jesus Christ is Lord.

Testimony.
While I was involved in prison ministry I was dealing with a disruptor in one of our meetings. I asked him to say "Jesus Christ is Lord." He couldn't do it. I pressed him to say it. After all it was "just four words." Why should that be a problem? He rattled on and on with all the reasons he couldn't say it. I had to interrupt him each time to request he say it. He finally got up and stormed out of the room and we were free of the distraction. I had discerned that there was a spirit at work in him. This test seemed to prove it.

I had to read your post a couple of times before deciding that's what you meant. After the 'first read' I just thought; "Oh, Steve just backslid."

I've heard someone else on CF say something about an unbeliever 'literally' can't say those four words. I still don't buy it as a litmus. I guess I need to try it out next time I talk to my atheist attorney.

FineLinen · Jul 30, 2019

BNR32FAN said:
What verse are you referring to saying that God is all in all? In what context is that verse referring to? Ephesians 1:22 is referring to His church. Ephesians 4:4-6 May be referring to His church or may be referring to God’s reign. It’s hard to say exactly.

“And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1:22-23‬ ‭NASB‬‬

“There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:4-6‬ ‭NASB‬‬

So this phrase “all in all” does not negate what Jesus said in Luke 12:10 as it does not apply to all people according to the context in which it is used. All are not in the body and all who are under God’s reign are not promised to receive salvation. This is why universalism stands on shaky ground because it rests on extremely vague verses interpreted in such a way that it contradicts verses that are clearly and plainly stated. There is no question about what Luke 12:10 is referring to exactly.

As for Mark 3:29, the scriptures cannot contradict themselves. These are parallel verses to Luke 12;10 and Matthew 12:31-32. If Luke 12:10 says blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven and Matthew 12:31 says the exact same thing then the terms aion and aionis cannot refer to a temporary situation. The way universalists interpret these verses makes them contradictory to one another instead of interpreting them the only way that they are not contradictory to one another.

Matthew 7:21
“"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭NASB

If universalists are correct then all who say to Him Lord Lord will enter heaven and again Luke 12:10 and Matthew 12:31 are contradicted. It doesn’t line up with all scripture without contradiction.

Dear BNR: welcome back to the glorious Gospel proclaiming Jesus Christ as Lord of all. Yes, my friend, every last knee, every last mouth, in all dimensions proclaiming Him Lord in union with His lovely Name.

God, All In All

Please notice the word IN/EN!

FineLinen · Jul 30, 2019

FineLinen said:
Dear BNR: welcome back to the glorious Gospel proclaiming Jesus Christ as Lord of all. Yes, my friend, every last knee, every last mouth, in all dimensions proclaiming Him Lord in union with His lovely Name.

God, All In All

Please notice the word IN/EN!

Dear BNR: Hopefully you can grasp what union IN/EN the Christ entails! This confession is NOT by rote, or perfunctory genuflections.

1 Corinthians 15:28 And when all things have been subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will be made subject to Him who put all things under Him, so that God may be all in all.

Note

"All" not some, "pas" the radical all!

FineLinen · Jul 30, 2019

Hillsage said:
I had to read your post a couple of times before deciding that's what you meant. After the 'first read' I just thought; "Oh, Steve just backslid."

I've heard someone else on CF say something about an unbeliever 'literally' can't say those four words. I still don't buy it as a litmus. I guess I need to try it out next time I talk to my atheist attorney.

Dear Hillsage: I love atheists! It amazes me how they maintain such a concept, but some of the most amazing vessels of His love & grace have been drawn from the atheist pool, including our own Lazarus.

I just posted a story regarding a vessel of exceeding stature pastor Richard Wurmbrand.

post # 451

Stories Of Hope & Inspiration

“God, I know surely that You do not exist. But if perchance You exist, which I contest, it is not my duty to believe in You; it is Your duty to reveal Yourself to me.”

BNR32FAN · Jul 30, 2019

FineLinen said:
Dear BNR: Hopefully you can grasp what union IN/EN the Christ entails! This confession is NOT by rote, or perfunctory genuflections.

1 Corinthians 15:28 And when all things have been subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will be made subject to Him who put all things under Him, so that God may be all in all.

Note

"All" not some, "pas" the radical all!

And Strong’s Concordance has this to say.

For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

all

G3956

Lemma:

πᾶς

Transliteration:

pâs

Pronounce:

pas

Part of Speech:

Adjective

Language:

greek

Description:

1) individually a) each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything

2) collectively a) some of all types"... 'The whole world is gone after him.' Did all the world go after Christ? 'Then went all Judea, and were baptized of him in Jordan.' Was all Judea, or all Jerusalem baptized in Jordan? 'Ye are of God, little children', and 'the whole world lieth in the wicked one.' Does 'the whole world' there mean everybody? If so, how was it, then, that there were some who were 'of God?' The words 'world' and 'all' are used in some seven or eight senses in Scripture; and it is very rarely that 'all' means all persons, taken individually. The words are generally used to signify that Christ has redeemed some of all sorts some Jews, some Gentiles, some rich, some poor, and has not restricted his redemption to either Jew or Gentile." (Charles H. Spurgeon, Particular Redemption, A Sermon, 28 Feb 1858).

Grammar:

including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole:--all (manner of, means), alway(-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no(-thing), X thoroughly, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.

Occurrences in Bible:

1245

Occurrences in Verses:

1075

Again if all means everyone then Luke 12:10, Matthew 12:31, and Matthew 7:21 are incorrect. And also again the definition of pas (all) does not only mean everyone it can also mean all of a certain type. In this case Paul is referring to brethren. Strong’s gives a few examples of pas being used in other verses that indicate that it cannot mean everyone. Was everyone in Judea baptized in Jordan river and confessing their sins?

“And all (pas G3956) the country of Judea was going out to him, and all the people of Jerusalem; and they were being baptized by him in the Jordan River, confessing their sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:5‬ ‭NASB‬‬

So far you still haven’t presented a very strong case at all my friend.

Every knee shall bend and every tongue confess? This can only be achieved by the Holy Spirit? How does that line up with Matthew 7:21?

The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism

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