The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism

FineLinen · Jul 18, 2019

Christ Triumphant -Thomas Allin-

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin

The 2nd death & The Restitution of all things -Andrew Jukes-

The Second Death and the Restitution of All Things by Andrew Jukes (Index)

Hope Beyond Hell -Gerry Beauchemin-

Hope Beyond Hell

No more let sin and sorrow grow, nor thorns infest the ground, He comes to make His blessings flow>>>>>

Far as the curse is found.

Saint Steven · Jul 18, 2019

Here's a question for whoever...

How does Universalism effect your world view?

In one of the links provided, the presenter said it made him look at people differently. He could see them as those who would one day be restored, rather than lost without hope. In what other ways does Universalism effect your perception?

Saint Steven · Jul 18, 2019

Another question for whoever...

Universalism teaches that we are dealing with "ages" rather than a single eternal continuum. If I can state it that way. Here's the question...

Do we know that this is the first age of many, or are we in the middle of a series of ages?

If so, the "all things" that are being restored only refers to the "all things" of this age.
I suppose God could be juggling universes like a juggler with seven balls in the air. Being careful not to drop one. - lol

Romans 16:25-26
Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, 26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience that comes from faith—

Ephesians 3:8-9
Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things.

Hebrews 9:26
Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Jude 1:25
to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.

FineLinen · Jul 18, 2019

The Doctrine Of The Ages

The Doctrine of the Ages in the Bible

What if I am wrong?

Aionios

The Hell Verses Project

TheHellVerses | Verse #9 - John 3:16

(Conducted by a team of more than 35 pastors, seminarians, authors, and lay persons.)

A few thoughts on “decisional regeneration” or the notion that John 3:16 is an ultimatum.

If we are saved, redeemed, justified, etc. by making a decision, that makes our salvation a partnership. Jesus did His part, now I do must do my portion.
Some maintain that we must decide to accept Christ. His mercy and grace is a gift and it is essential that it be “accepted.” If this is true, then does that mean that the gift you left on the table at the last wedding you attended, was not the bride and grooms gift until they acknowledged or "accepted" it?
If I were mayor of a city, proclaiming that every citizen of that city would receive a tax reduction. Would it be appropriate to apply the reduced tax only to those who "asked" for the reduction?
If a large coast guard rescue boat came back from the site of a sinking ship with twenty three people while their were still seventy five people still in the freezing ocean - would that be considered a successful rescue mission? After all, the seventy five did not ask to be rescued?

Hillsage · Jul 18, 2019

Jude1:3Contendforthefaith said:
The Canons and Decrees of The Ecumenical Councils are Infallible.

.

So am I to assume your 'LIKE' on the mods post is now GOADING ME??? Got to admit a that 'icon' infraction is new to me. But don't worry, I've never reported anyone, for anything, after being here for 10 years, and wouldn't start now. But then I came here when this FORUM was called the CONTROVERSIAL forum. The reason it was called that, was because 'arm chair' theological 'know it all's' abound here and the old administration knew that. So we were all 'basically' forewarned that having a 'thin skin' is not a fruit of the Spirit.

Having said that, I admit, I'm tired of 'your opinion'. But I also had no interest in debating either.

But when you make it sound like all EASTERN ORTHODOXY is anti UNIVERSALISM, I just find that comment hilarious. Especially since I have a very good friend who is NO LONGER a CATACHUMEN such as yourself. He was actually one of the main founders of the Eastern Orthodox 'The church of the three Heirarchs', here in my hometown. Having just got off the phone with him he told me that all three of those heirarchs were pro Universalism.

Basil the Great, Gregory of Nyssa and John Chrysostom.

I told him of your presence on this thread, and your complete refusal to acknowledge anything historically on UNIVERSALISM. That's when he said "The problem with CATECHUMENs is that their world has really just been opened up for the first time and unfortunately they think they know it all, so try to be merciful to him." So I will do that and keep my 'smileys' to myself.

HatGuy · Jul 18, 2019

Having spent considerable time reading Eastern Orthodox sources, I can also state with quite a bit of confidence that Christian Universalism is not so "anathema" as dogmatists would like to say it is. Both historically and today.

After a fair amount of years debating this subject in my own mind and researching it, actually, I've found that this view is actually quite strong historically and amongst all traditions is far more accepted than many think. Even amongst evangelicals, there's an openness to it.

HatGuy · Jul 18, 2019

Saint Steven said:
Here's a question for whoever...

How does Universalism effect your world view?

In one of the links provided, the presenter said it made him look at people differently. He could see them as those who would one day be restored, rather than lost without hope. In what other ways does Universalism effect your perception?

Kind of similar for me.

Every person truly now has value, rather than just hypothetically, because if God has not given up on them, I have no right to either.

Hillsage · Jul 18, 2019

HatGuy said:
Kind of similar for me.

Every person truly now has value, rather than just hypothetically, because if God has not given up on them, I have no right to either.

And me 'three'.

I believe it has given me the Father's heart for people. The same heart which Jesus had when he was the "friend of publicans and SINNERS". And, along those same lines, I believe it's given me the same disdain for the PHARISEEs of today that Jesus had for them back then.

Also, for me, UR/UNI may not answer all the questions, but for me it has answered them better than ORTHODOXY...no matter which branch one is a part of.....after the 'great apostasy' of 500 AD.

Jude1:3Contendforthefaith · Jul 18, 2019

Hillsage said:
So am I to assume your 'LIKE' on the mods post is now GOADING ME??? Got to admit a that 'icon' infraction is new to me. But don't worry, I've never reported anyone, for anything, after being here for 10 years, and wouldn't start now. But then I came here when this FORUM was called the CONTROVERSIAL forum. The reason it was called that, was because 'arm chair' theological 'know it all's' abound here and the old administration knew that. So we were all 'basically' forewarned that having a 'thin skin' is not a fruit of the Spirit.

Having said that, I admit, I'm tired of 'your opinion'. But I also had no interest in debating either.

But when you make it sound like all EASTERN ORTHODOXY is anti UNIVERSALISM, I just find that comment hilarious. Especially since I have a very good friend who is NO LONGER a CATACHUMEN such as yourself. He was actually one of the main founders of the Eastern Orthodox 'The church of the three Heirarchs', here in my hometown. Having just got off the phone with him he told me that all three of those heirarchs were pro Universalism.

Basil the Great, Gregory of Nyssa and John Chrysostom.

I told him of your presence on this thread, and your complete refusal to acknowledge anything historically on UNIVERSALISM. That's when he said "The problem with CATECHUMENs is that their world has really just been opened up for the first time and unfortunately they think they know it all, so try to be merciful to him." So I will do that and keep my 'smileys' to myself.

The Council has already happened. It doesn't matter what our individual opinions are about the matter. The Canons and Decrees of the Ecumenical Councils are Infallible.

Universalism has already been condemned and defeated for more than 1,400 years.

The Anathemas of the Emperor Justinian Against Origen ______________________________________________________________

9

If Anyone Says Or Thinks That The Punishment Of Demons And Of Impious Men Is Only Temporary, And Will One Day Have An End, And That A Restoration Will Take Place Of Demons And Of Impious Men, Let Him Be Anathema.

CHURCH FATHERS: Second Council of Constantinople (A.D. 553)

.

Hillsage said:
So we were all 'basically' forewarned that having a 'thin skin' is not a fruit of the Spirit.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, Kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
• Galatians 5:22-23

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Jude1:3Contendforthefaith · Jul 18, 2019

Hillsage said:
So I will do that and keep my 'smileys' to myself.

Please remove the Goading icon from post # 3195.

.

FineLinen · Jul 18, 2019

Jude1:3Contendforthefaith said:
The Council has already happened. It doesn't matter what our individual opinions are about the matter. The Canons and Decrees of the Ecumenical Councils are Infallible.

Universalism has already been condemned and defeated for more than 1,400 years.

Dear Jude: The canon and decrees of the echumenical councils, with "infallible" added, are not in union with the first centuries of the church. Wake up or you will never be a full catechumen!

"In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six known theological schools, of which four (Alexandria… Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa or Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality; one (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked. Other theological schools are mentioned as founded by Universalists, but their actual doctrine on this subject is unknown.”

Schaff, Phillip, The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge – Vol 12, Baker Book House, 1950

The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, Vol XIII: Index - TOC

Hillsage · Jul 18, 2019

Jude1:3Contendforthefaith said:
Please remove the Goading icon from post # 3195.
.

Your wish has been fulfilled Catechumen.

Jude1:3Contendforthefaith · Jul 18, 2019

Hillsage said:
Your wish has been fulfilled Catechumen.

Thanks.

.

FineLinen · Jul 18, 2019

Hillsage said:
Your wish has been fulfilled Catechumen.

Dear Hillsage: I have every hope Jude will spend some time with us on this wee link. Perhaps he can advance from being taught the principles of Christianity at an elementary level, to grasping a measure of the great mysteries of the Living One. Perhaps?

Mystery= musterion=

That which, being outside the range of unassisted natural apprehension, can be made known only by Divine revelation, and is made known in a manner and at a time appointed by God, and to those only who are illumined by His Spirit.

Saint Steven · Jul 18, 2019

FineLinen said:
The Hell Verses Project

Wow.
That's the best presentation about the Greek in Matt.25:46 that I have yet to see.
He really knows his stuff. (NT Greek)

FineLinen · Jul 18, 2019

Saint Steven said:
Wow.
That's the best presentation about the Greek in Matt.25:46 that I have yet to see.
He really knows his stuff. (NT Greek)

Dear S.S.: the entire project is a combined effort conducted by a team of more than 35 pastors, seminarians, authors, and lay persons.

https://www.thehellverses.com/verse-9-john-3-16

Jude1:3Contendforthefaith · Jul 18, 2019

FineLinen said:
Perhaps he can advance from being taught the principles of Christianity at an elementary level, to grasping a measure of the great mysteries of the Living One.

Canons and Decrees of The Ecumenical Ecumenical Councils are the most advanced principles of Christianity and literal dogmas of Christ's Church on the earth.

.

FineLinen · Jul 19, 2019

“The popular view is familiar, and most men do not realize its true bearing, or the light in which it really presents the character of God. But consider how this dogma of endless evil must strike an inquirer after God, one outside the pale of Christianity, but sincerely desirous of learning the truth. There are such men -there are many such.

You tell this inquirer that God is not Almighty only, but all good; that God is indeed love; that God is his Father. But these terms are words without any justification at all, if they have not their common ordinary sense when applied to God.” -Thomas Allin (Christ Triumphant)-

FineLinen · Jul 19, 2019

Universalism:
The Prevailing Doctrine
Of The Christian Church
During Its First Five Hundred Years

Universalism: The Prevailing Doctrine of the Christian Church During Its First Five Hundred Years

FineLinen · Jul 19, 2019

"He saves the sheep, the goats he doth not save!"
So rang Tertullian's sentence on the side
of that unpitying Phrygian sect which cried,--
'Him can no fount of fresh forgiveness lave,
Whose sins once washed by the baptismal wave!'
So spake the fierce Tertullian. But she sighed,
The infant Church,--of love she felt the tide
Stream on her from her Lord's yet recent grave,
And then she smiled, and in the Catacombs,
With eyes suffused but heart inspired true,
On those walls subterranean, where she hid
Her head in ignominy, death and tombs,
She her Good Shepherd's hasty image drew
And on his shoulders not a lamb, a kid!"

The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism

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