The replacement

[Lion King]

Where does it say that?

In the book of Romans.

For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:


“ The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”

28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all. 33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!Romans 11:25-33



"And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again." Romans 11:23

 

[visionary]

And the replacements were given teeth..

The Constantine Creed

“I renounce all customs, rites, legalisms, unleavened breads and sacrifices of lambs of the Hebrews, and all the other feasts of the Hebrews, sacrifices, prayers, aspirations, purifications, sanctifications, and propitiations, and fasts and new moons, and Sabbaths, and superstitions, and hymns and chants, and observances and synagogues. absolutely everything Jewish, every Law, rite and custom and if afterwards I shall wish to deny and return to Jewish superstition, or shall be found eating with Jews, or feasting with them, or secretly conversing and condemning the Christian religion instead of openly confuting them and condemning their vain faith, then let the trembling of Cain and the leprosy of Gehazi cleave to me, as well as the legal punishments to which I acknowledge myself liable. And may I be an anathema in the world to come, and may my soul be set down with Satan and the devils.”
(Stefano Assemani, Acta Sanctorium Martyrum Orientalium at Occidentalium, Vol. 1, Rome 1748, page 105)

Furthermore, any follower of the “Jewish Messiah” (Yeshua HaMashiach) who wished to join this “holy community” was compelled to adopt a different set of rules and customs. Subsequently special creeds were drafted, to which the Christian would have to swear such as:

“I accept all customs, rites, legalism, and feasts of the Romans, sacrifices. Prayers, purifications with water, sanctifications by Pontificus Maxmus (high priests of Rome), propitiations, and feasts, and the New Sabbath “So! dei” (day of the Sun, ), all new chants and observances, and all the foods and drinks of the Romans. In other words, I absolutely accept everything Roman, every new law, rite and custom, of Rome, and the New Roman Religion.”

Additionally, in approximately 365 AD, the Council of Laodicea wrote, in one of their canons:
Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day. Rather, honoring the Lord’s Day. But if any shall be found to be Judaizers, let them be anathema (against) from Christ”.

 

[RND]

In the book of Romans.

For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:


“ The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”

28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all. 33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!Romans 11:25-33

This doesn't say that "the same branches that have been broken off will be grafted back in when Israel turns back to Christ."

Where, in what you quoted, does it say Israel will turn back to Christ?

 

[RND]

And the replacements were given teeth..

The Constantine Creed

“I renounce all customs, rites, legalisms, unleavened breads and sacrifices of lambs of the Hebrews, and all the other feasts of the Hebrews, sacrifices, prayers, aspirations, purifications, sanctifications, and propitiations, and fasts and new moons, and Sabbaths, and superstitions, and hymns and chants, and observances and synagogues. absolutely everything Jewish, every Law, rite and custom and if afterwards I shall wish to deny and return to Jewish superstition, or shall be found eating with Jews, or feasting with them, or secretly conversing and condemning the Christian religion instead of openly confuting them and condemning their vain faith, then let the trembling of Cain and the leprosy of Gehazi cleave to me, as well as the legal punishments to which I acknowledge myself liable. And may I be an anathema in the world to come, and may my soul be set down with Satan and the devils.”
(Stefano Assemani, Acta Sanctorium Martyrum Orientalium at Occidentalium, Vol. 1, Rome 1748, page 105)

Furthermore, any follower of the “Jewish Messiah” (Yeshua HaMashiach) who wished to join this “holy community” was compelled to adopt a different set of rules and customs. Subsequently special creeds were drafted, to which the Christian would have to swear such as:

“I accept all customs, rites, legalism, and feasts of the Romans, sacrifices. Prayers, purifications with water, sanctifications by Pontificus Maxmus (high priests of Rome), propitiations, and feasts, and the New Sabbath “So! dei” (day of the Sun, ), all new chants and observances, and all the foods and drinks of the Romans. In other words, I absolutely accept everything Roman, every new law, rite and custom, of Rome, and the New Roman Religion.”

Additionally, in approximately 365 AD, the Council of Laodicea wrote, in one of their canons:
Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day. Rather, honoring the Lord’s Day. But if any shall be found to be Judaizers, let them be anathema (against) from Christ”.

Nice.

 

[Lion King]

This doesn't say that "the same branches that have been broken off will be grafted back in when Israel turns back to Christ."

Where, in what you quoted, does it say Israel will turn back to Christ?

Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: Romans 11:22-26

 

[RND]

Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: Romans 11:22-26

Ah, I see. So you didn't quote that. No problem. Now here's my question....Who is Israel? Is one saved just because they were born in Israel and have Jewish blood?

Rom 2:25 ¶ For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

Rom 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

Rom 2:27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

Rom 2:29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.


Just because one is born in the modern, secular nation-state of Israel with "Jewish" blood coursing through their veins doesn't mean they are saved. Far from it.


Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

[Lion King]

Ah, I see. So you didn't quote that. No problem. Now here's my question....Who is Israel? Is one saved just because they were born in Israel and have Jewish blood?

Rom 2:25 ¶ For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

Rom 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

Rom 2:27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

Rom 2:29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.


Just because one is born in the modern, secular nation-state of Israel with "Jewish" blood coursing through their veins doesn't mean they are saved. Far from it.


Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Go to Romans 11, it explains everything in full HD (1080p).

"And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either." Romans 11:17-21

Some of the Jews who did not believe in Jesus Christ were broken off from the tree, and the gentiles (who believe in Jesus Christ) were grafted in.

 

[RND]

One isn't saved just because they have Hebrew blood and were born in Israel. That's the Zionist /dispensationalist perspective that has no basis in biblical fact or reality. I work with a Jew that says he doesn't need Jesus because he is saved no matter what!

http://www.bibleprophecytruth.com/topics/israel-in-prophecy.aspx

 

[Fireinfolding]

That's just the point. Many people insist just that. They think because they've been "free" from certain rituals they are free to consume anything they wish. That's why I ask the question rhetorically.

I am not sure you saw my point. You are the one insisting on the carnal commandments, being free from them meant only that they werent bound to them any long. They are still carnal ordinances.

Well save for your weaker brothers conscience sake (whose eating doesnt come from faith) and who regards them (still) as unclean. If he is distressed over your consumption of them then flaunting a pork chop in his face is not walking toward him in love. In that respect I have regard, not much for the food itself, but my brother.

So if you regard something as unclean for you it is unclean for you

The carnal ordinances dealt with rituals not commandments on how to live a better life.

Then why stop circumcision? I hear it actually keeps things cleaner down there (seems a little of each if you ask me)

Health laws were different than ceremonial laws. See Acts 15 for confirmation.

1Cr 10:25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:

The health of ones conscience appears here (and then anothers conscience) not thine (even if he said it was offered to an idol)

Im not good at fetching verses without keywords but thats ok bro, Im not going to be going back and forth here for long

The law was "magnified" in Christ. Obviously not abolished.

The Love of God in Christ Jesus sure did and I dont see him going on about foods for the belly.

Now brother, given I have had these back and forth conversations for many years and I am very much disinterested in going back and forth on foods, I will let others who are less weary of it then I am continue on with you while I step back out of this conversation.

I dont like to wrangle back and forth for debate sake, specially over food, if you deem something unclean then for you (no doubt it is) abide by your conscience then, and I will abide by mine not to offend you concerning what you chose to refrain from. Hows that?

You can have the last word here brother, forgive me on not wanting to go on with this

 

[Frogster]

That is true but, how does this help your case that the church replaced Israel corporately? Do you consider that replacement permanent?

Would the baptism ever change? It is not a carnal one. Permanent baptism, not about flesh.


Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,


Gal 3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


1 Cor 12:13 For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit.

 

[Frogster]

See, that is what happens when context is removed in favor of a pet doctrine. Paul never showed that they were not in Abraham nor did Paul taught that the church replaced Israel.

Ahhhh..but the definition of abraham was established in Rom 9, not of flesh, and here too. Everywhere Paul used Abe, it was to level either judaism, nationalsim, race or works.


Rom 4;12 and to make him the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.

 

[Frogster]

Not found in the TEN

these 10?

7 Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses' face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end,

 

[Frogster]

.

 

[Frogster]

It's always been about grace. Adam and Eve experienced it, Noah, et al.

They experienced an atribute of God, grace, but no one was under the reign of grace until Christ.

 

[from scratch]

So do the refusals to accept the truth!

If that were qualified to be SDA truth I would accept the statement.

 

[from scratch]

Israel has not been replaced, only the branches which did not believe in Jesus Christ have been broken off, and the Gentiles (who believe in Jesus Christ) have been grafted in.

However, the same branches that have been broken off will be grafted back in when Israel turns back to Christ. They were the original branches, after all.

Is the Root Jesus or Isreal?

 

[from scratch]

That's just the point. Many people insist just that. They think because they've been "free" from certain rituals they are free to consume anything they wish. That's why I ask the question rhetorically.

Nope the issue is which covenant one adheres to.

 

[Frogster]

Studies show that folks that have a diet free of animal products live significantly longer than those who don't.

Eat up folks!

No pulled pork sammies in Heaven!

Abe lived long, and he even ate meat-n-milk together.


8 Then he took curds and milk and the calf that he had prepared, and set it before them. And he stood by them under the tree while they ate.

 

[Frogster]

So are we free to smoke dope, shoot heroin, or snort coke? If not then there remains a law as to what we can or cannot put in our bodies.

Many people love to suggest that we can eat whatever we want without ever realizing that God "set apart" certain animals for food. Pigs were never food. Goes for a lot of different things. Yet many that put their lips to swine have to problem telling others that smoking dope is a sin. That's called, in a word, hypocrisy.

if it moves, just shoot it-n-eat.


3 Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything.

 

[Frogster]

This throwing in the Jews, like they were set apart to do the impossible, doesn't make sense either.

tis a fact though, that all the jewish christians were living like gentiles in antioch. Pork chops, lobster in butter sauce, you name it. Party down!