The relationship between the Ten Commandments, the Sabbath, and the New Covenant

Studyman · Jun 5, 2025

DamianWarS said:
My point is that Christ's words regarding hate are not contained in the 6th commandment. We may infer it through the law complete but regarding the 6th or the 10 as a whole does not take it to that level.

There is no one in the Holy Scriptures who said, suggested or even implied that the "10 Commandments" carried more weight than Lev. 19 or anywhere else God delivered His instruction in righteousness. Or that men were to "Live By" SOME of God's Instruction. I don't understand what you point is. The Law and Prophets were not "Written for them", they were "Written for us", for "Our Admonition, upon whom the ends of the world have come", "For OUR Sakes no doubt".

In Matt. 5, Jesus referenced Ex. 20, Lev. 19, Duet 23, even Proverbs. Are these things not True, according to the God Inspired Holy Scriptures?

DamianWarS said:
Christ tells us he came to fulfill law not to destroy. Clearly there are aspects of the law that are no longer in operation, that we may call fulfilled (and we do not call destroyed) these aspects are not erased but their reliance has been revealed through Christ. For example, we still need sanctifying blood, but the sacrafical system is shown as incomplete to accomplish this, and Christ is shown as complete.

But the "Aspects" of the Law that are no longer in operation, where Prophesied to end. The Priesthood "Order" was Prophesied to change. The Laws of God were Prophesied to no longer be placed in the Ark of the Covenant, but in the hearts of God's People.

God's Sabbath, however, was never prophesied to change, "Till heaven and earth pass, "Till ALL be fulfilled". If the Christ, the Holy One of Israel doesn't return, Abraham's Faith and my Faith are in vain. So clearly "ALL" has not been fulfilled, therefore men still need to, as Ezekiel teaches, "Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit", or as Paul also teaches:

Eph. 4: 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

DamianWarS said:
Universal morals don't need to be written down, they are universal for that reason. They are always good, not just good in season or once a week. Commandments like not to worship other gods or not to sleep with your neighbour's wife are self-evident.

This might be your philosophy, but it certainly isn't God's. If this were true, then God wouldn't have had them written down?

Where was Eve's "Universal morals"? This is why it's so important to listen to God's Word, and not the "Other voices" in the garden God placed us in.

DamianWarS said:
Sure surrounding cultures had different values which is why the 10 can be seen as a polemic to these cultures. Commitment to monotheism means one God and any hint of another god is in violation of monotheism, this is self-evident in a commitment to monothesim. Do doubt some had difficulty in monotheistic beliefs as polytheism/paganism was the norm (hence the defaulting to things like a golden calf when in trouble) so the law reinforces monotheistic practices but laws like having no other gods before God are implicit in the call to monothesim. For laws about moral behaviour to each other are also self-evident. I don't need to be told that my neighbour doesn't like it when I sleep with his wife, lie to him, or plot his death. We already know these are not things we desire for ourselves, and it should be clear neither would our neighbour like them. Surrounding cultures had different values, which again is why the 10 can be seen as a polemic to these cultures.

But commandments that follow ritual or ceremony are not self-evident. Sacrificial laws are such laws, but let's called a spade a spade here, Sabbath is of ritual substance, not of moral substance, nor is the letter self-evident. We cannot innately know the sabbath law requirement unless it is told to us, sure we can land upon natural rhythms of rest, but they will not align with the 4th day requirement, for that to happen, we need specific instruction to follow and failing the instruction, we would always violate the 4th commandment and it would never come through natural means. Love to God is a love to an authority over you, and it's innate values are universal for any system of mono-authoritarian power. by nature of one authority we cannot look for competing authorities, through other gods, through idols, or through disrespect of the authority (commandments 1-3). But Sabbath practice does not fit this and cannot be naturally inferred from simply saying "there is one God therefore I must keep Sabbath". But we can say "... therefore there is no other god" or "...therefore I will keep no graven image", or "...therefore I will respect his name" because these are natural products of "one-God" and show our committed values to a single source. But sorry, "...therefore I must keep the Sabbath" is not a natural product because we need to be told that instruction first to understand it.

This is fascinating. This entire religious philosophy is created to justify this world's popular tradition of rejected God's Sabbath Commandment. You have all the examples written for your admonition, of others "that professed to know God", who rejected God's Sabbath, and how God, who is said not to change, responded to them. And all these Words of God are in your own home, and they tell you that the very purpose of these very Words are to warn you, so that you wouldn't lust after the same disobedience to God that they lusted after. And yet here you are all these years later, believing that somehow you have discovered a loop hole in the Oracles of God that not ONE person in the entire Holy Scriptures was able to find, nor is there any prophesies that speak to a time before the return of Christ, when God's sabbath wasn't honored and respected by His People. Even in the New Earth, it is written,

Is. 66: 22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

At some point a man seeking God must consider the Holy Scriptures as trustworthy for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works., and not all the "other voices" in the garden God placed us in.

"Many" who call Jesus Lord Lord, believe they have found another way through the teaching of these "another voices". Jesus sheds some light on this in Matt. 7:22 which speak to HIS return and the appeal to His Judgment that "Many", who call Jesus Lord, Lord, will bring forth after seeing the Judgment they received. I'll paraphrase, "Wait a minute Jesus, didn't we do all these "Good Deeds" IN YOUR NAME"?

Men can find His Response if they are interested, in the Oracles of God.

BobRyan · Jun 5, 2025

JesusFollowerForever said:
The relationship between the Ten Commandments, the Sabbath, and the New Covenant is a profound subject with significant implications for biblical theology and Christian practice.
At the heart of this discussion lies the assertion that the Decalogue, as articulated in Exodus 34:28 and Deuteronomy 4:13, constitutes the very covenant God established with Israel.

And in Ex 20:1-17 where He spoke the Ten Commandments "And added no more" Deut 5:

Deut 5:22 “These words the Lord spoke to all your assembly at the mountain from the midst of the fire, of the cloud and of the thick gloom, with a great voice, and He added no more. He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

JesusFollowerForever said:
The text is explicit: “He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant—the Ten Commandments.”

amen

JesusFollowerForever said:
As the biblical texts confirms, the Ten Commandments are the covenant and the new covenant is characterized by the internalization of these laws, then the Sabbath, as an integral part of the Decalogue, must also be understood as retaining its relevance and authority. The new covenant does not negate the Sabbath, but rather inscribes its meaning more deeply within the believer’s consciousness and spiritual identity.

Jeremiah's readers would have already known that God wrote the TEN and "Added no more" so in Jer 31:31-34 the "Law written on the heart" would most certainly have to include the TEN

Studyman · Jun 6, 2025

timothyu said:
And every generation tells the next they are naked

Actually it is just the opposite. We are taught by the prince of this world, who profess to know God, "You shall surely not die". And as it is also written:

Jer. 23: 17 "They say still" unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.

Jesus warns of this very same thing.

Matt. 24: 4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many "shall come" in my name, saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; "and shall deceive" many.

Studyman · Jun 6, 2025

timothyu said:
Even then only the will of the Father was followed.

Again, this is true. The Christ only Spoke those Words that His Father Gave Him. Even to Abraham and Moses.

Bob S · Jun 6, 2025

Studyman said:
But the "Aspects" of the Law that are no longer in operation, where Prophesied to end. The Priesthood "Order" was Prophesied to change. The Laws of God were Prophesied to no longer be placed in the Ark of the Covenant, but in the hearts of God's People.

Where is it written that certain aspects of the Law would end? I am not familiar with those verses.

The prophecy in Jeremiah doesn't say that what is written on our hearts is the laws placed in the Ark. "My Laws" does not translate to the Ten Commandments like you would like everyone to believe.

Studyman said:
God's Sabbath, however, was never prophesied to change,

Neither was any other law.

Studyman said:
"Till heaven and earth pass,

The passing of Heaven and Earth is a metaphor. If that was a real truth, then the Israelites, to whom the Law was given, would still be under every jot and tittle. They would still be held accountable by God to slaughter animals as retribution for sins. Anyone trying to live by the Laws given at Sinai, written on stone or spoken by God would need to follow every aspect. no picking and choosing, not one jot or one tittle.

Studyman said:
"Till ALL be fulfilled". If the Christ, the Holy One of Israel doesn't return, Abraham's Faith and my Faith are in vain. So clearly "ALL" has not been fulfilled, therefore men still need to, as Ezekiel teaches, "Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit", or as Paul also teaches:

Are you trying to teach the readers of your post that Jesus didn't fulfill all He came to do???? He said He came to fulfill the Law, not part of it. In the same sentence, He said He came to fulfill the prophets meaning the prophecies concerning His coming. He brought those prophecies to an end. He fulfilled them. Now, does anyone see two meanings for the word "fulfill"? If Jesus brought to an end the prophecies concerning his coming, then He also brought to an end the Law.

Studyman said:
This is fascinating. This entire religious philosophy is created to justify this world's popular tradition of rejected God's Sabbath Commandment. You have all the examples written for your admonition, of others "that professed to know God", who rejected God's Sabbath, and how God, who is said not to change, responded to them. And all these Words of God are in your own home, and they tell you that the very purpose of these very Words are to warn you, so that you wouldn't lust after the same disobedience to God that they lusted after. And yet here you are all these years later, believing that somehow you have discovered a loop hole in the Oracles of God that not ONE person in the entire Holy Scriptures was able to find, nor is there any prophesies that speak to a time before the return of Christ, when God's sabbath wasn't honored and respected by His People. Even in the New Earth, it is written,

Is. 66: 22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Are you aware that Isiah also wrote about the New Earth in chapter 65? Yep, he wrote:
“Never again will there be in it
an infant who lives but a few days,
or an old man who does not live out his years;
the one who dies at a hundred
will be thought a mere child;
the one who fails to reach[a] a hundred
will be considered accursed.

Studyman said:
"Many" who call Jesus Lord Lord, believe they have found another way through the teaching of these "another voices". Jesus sheds some light on this in Matt. 7:22 which speak to HIS return and the appeal to His Judgment that "Many", who call Jesus Lord, Lord, will bring forth after seeing the Judgment they received. I'll paraphrase, "Wait a minute Jesus, didn't we do all these "Good Deeds" IN YOUR NAME"?

Men can find His Response if they are interested, in the Oracles of God.

In other words, Studyman is proclaiming that if man does not observe the Sabbath of the old covenant, like he does, woo be it unto him. To believe as Studyman does, one must ignore all the admonition in the New Testament that tells us we are not under the Law, that the Sabbath was a shadow and Jesus is reality, that the ten commandments were the ministry of death and have been done away, that Jesus destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulation, and Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come.

BobRyan · Jun 6, 2025

Bob S said:
Where is it written that certain aspects of the Law would end? I am not familiar with those verses.

read Hebrews 10

Bob S said:
The prophecy in Jeremiah doesn't say that what is written on our hearts is the laws placed in the Ark.

Left as an exercise for the reader since apparently the following groups already see the point

The Baptist Confession of Faith section 19
[*]The Westminster Confession of Faith section 19
[*]Voddie Baucham
[*]C.H. Spurgeon
[*]D.L. Moody
[*]Dies Domini by Pope John Paul II
[*]D. James Kennedy
[*]R.C. Sproul

Bob S said:
"My Laws" does not translate to the Ten Commandments

until you read Deut 4 and 5 where God says "He spoke these ten and added no more"

Reading Jeremiah's readers would have known about.

Studyman · Jun 6, 2025

Bob S said:
Where is it written that certain aspects of the Law would end? I am not familiar with those verses.

I was replying to the statement "Clearly there are aspects of the law that are no longer in operation".

One such LAW that was Prophesied to end, was the Law concerning the Levite Priest.

Duet. 18: 18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

Also, the manner in which God's Laws are received was to change. "After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people". Prior to "After those days", People received God's Laws through the Levitical Priesthood, as they were commanded to serve God "in the Priests office". Hebrews also understood this prophesied change in the Law.

Heb. 7: 11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise "after the order of Melchisedec", and not be called after the order of Aaron?

Bob S said:
The prophecy in Jeremiah doesn't say that what is written on our hearts is the laws placed in the Ark. "My Laws" does not translate to the Ten Commandments like you would like everyone to believe.

It is true that "Your Laws" and God's Laws are two completely different "Ways". That part I agree with you on. "Your Laws" most definitely doesn't translate to God's Laws, including the 10 Commandments.

Now Abraham's Laws, Caleb's Laws, David's Laws, Shadrack's Laws, Zacharias and Elizabeth's Laws, James Laws, Paul's Laws, and most importantly, the Jesus "of the Bible's" Laws, DO translate to God's Laws, including by not limited to HIS LAWS as defined in the 10 Commandments.

So when God says "My Laws", to Abraham, to Caleb, to David, to Shadrack, to Zacharias, to James, to Paul, they all understood and believed they translated to the Laws of God including the 10 Commandments.

At least this is what the Bible teaches.

Bob S said:
Neither was any other law.

In your adopted religion, this might be the case, but not according to what is written in Scriptures.

Bob S said:
The passing of Heaven and Earth is a metaphor. If that was a real truth, then the Israelites, to whom the Law was given, would still be under every jot and tittle. They would still be held accountable by God to slaughter animals as retribution for sins.

This is, of course, foolishness. The entire Sacrificial system was Temporary from it's conception.

1 Sam. 15: 22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

This Sacrificial system foreshadowed what the Priesthood the "Priest of God after the Order of Melchizedek", that Moses spoke to in Duet. 18, would usher in. As it is written, "For I WILL forgive their sins." No more taking a goat to the Levite Priest. This is confirmed by the undeniable Biblical Fact that Jesus forgave sins and cleansed Lepers, but didn't follow the Priesthood Laws "After the Order of Aaron" to do it. And HE walked in ALL of God's Laws. So we have already established that "Your" Laws, and God's Laws are not the same, therefore it is no surprise that you don't know these things.

But the truth is, if an Israelite was to offer the blood of a goat to some priest today, for the remission of his Sins, he would be in direct disobedience to Moses, "BECAUSE" not one title or jot has passed from the Law.

Bob S said:
Anyone trying to live by the Laws given at Sinai, written on stone or spoken by God would need to follow every aspect. no picking and choosing, not one jot or one tittle.

I agree. But a person would need to understand the Parables and the Spiritual Intent of the Laws. As they were written for us, not them. And the things that happened to them, happened to teach us, for our admonition, for "our sakes no doubt".

I don't believe God had His Holy Scriptures created so that you or others could use them as a tool to justify disobedience to Him. But clearly I am in the minority.

Bob S said:
Are you trying to teach the readers of your post that Jesus didn't fulfill all He came to do????

Of course HE didn't fulfill "ALL" of the things HE came to do. If HE doesn't come back, the dead are not raised, there is no Reward and no Judgment.

John 14: 1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And "if I go" and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

Rev. 22: 12 And, behold, "I come quickly"; and my reward is with me, to give "every man" according as his work shall be.

It is Jesus Himself that told you what has yet to be fulfilled.

What you guys have not been taught by this world religious system, is that Passover IS the BEGINNING of Salvation, not the End.

Bob S said:
He said He came to fulfill the Law, not part of it.

Explain to me how Jesus fulfilled God's Law "Thou shall not Kill"? Was God's Law, Thou shall not kill, "ADDED because of Transgressions 430 years after God said that Abraham "obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."? And God's Law "thou shall not Kill" was only to be in force, "Till the Seed should come"? Consider how foolish such a religious philosophy is.

But if the Scriptures are true, and it was the Priesthood Law that changed, and Jesus ushered in the New Priesthood prophesied from the very beginning, "After the Order of Melchizedek", then truly HE fulfilled that Law that was ADDED, till HE was to come.

And HE will return as Prophesied, only this time, not as a sheep to the slaughter.

Matt. 13: 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Matt. 24: 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

So Bob, should I hear, and hearken to the Lord's Christ as to what is finished, and has yet to be fulfilled?

Bob S said:
In the same sentence, He said He came to fulfill the prophets meaning the prophecies concerning His coming.

Where you are deceived, is that you have been taught to ignore the Prophesies "of His Glorious return", without which His Death and Resurrection would have NO Meaning at all.

But to believe what Jesus actually says would mean to question your own religion. And Jesus said you would not be persuaded to so, not even by HIS Own Words.

Luke 16: 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Studyman · Jun 6, 2025

Bob S said:
He brought those prophecies to an end. He fulfilled them.

His first coming, not His Prophesied Second.

Heb. 9: 28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them "that look for him" shall he appear "the second time" without sin unto salvation.

Bob S said:
Now, does anyone see two meanings for the word "fulfill"? If Jesus brought to an end the prophecies concerning his coming, then He also brought to an end the Law.

In your religion, your Jesus brought an end to God's Instruction in Righteousness. But as you can clearly see, the Jesus "of the Bible" did no such thing. Not because I think so, or some popular religion you have adopted says so, but because the Jesus "of the Bible" says so.

I can only post HIS Words, I can't make you believe them.

Bob S said:
Are you aware that Isiah also wrote about the New Earth in chapter 65? Yep, he wrote:
“Never again will there be in it
an infant who lives but a few days,
or an old man who does not live out his years;
the one who dies at a hundred
will be thought a mere child;
the one who fails to reach[a] a hundred
will be considered accursed.

Isaiah 65 doesn't justify disobedience, it exposes it.

Is. 65: 1 I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name. 2 I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;

3 A people "that provoketh me to anger continually to my face"; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick;

4 Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels;

5 Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.

6 Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom,

7 Your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the LORD, which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom.

8 Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do "for my servants' sakes", that I may not destroy them all.

9 And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.

Of all the Scriptures to choose from, you chose Isaiah to justify your rejection of God's Laws.

If only you could hear what he is actually teaching.

Bob S said:
In other words, Studyman is proclaiming that if man does not observe the Sabbath of the old covenant, like he does, woo be it unto him.

Actually, I am simply posting God's Words which bring a completely different gospel than your words, and I am advocating that men stop listening to all the "other voices" in the garden God placed us in, voices that you are promoting.

Bob S said:
To believe as Studyman does, one must ignore all the admonition in the New Testament that tells us we are not under the Law,

Under what Law? "Thou shall not Kill?" "Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him."

Duet 11: 1 Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, alway?

Or is it just the Laws of God you don't like?

I know your masters will not allow you to consider All of Paul's Teaching, as we have been here many times, but for those reading along, let's look at what he actually says.

Rom. 6: 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members "as instruments of righteousness unto God."

14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, (Dead in trespasses and sins) but under grace. (Alive by the Grace of God)

15 What then? "shall we sin", because we are not under the law, (dead in trespasses and sins) but under grace? (Alive by the Grace of God) "God forbid". That means NO Bob, we should continue in trespasses and sins, because we are no longer under the law.

So why are we to NOT to transgress God's Laws, after we repent and are forgiven, and are no longer dead in trespasses and sins? Paul explains exactly why, but Bob must omit this from his mind, as it is contrary to his adopted religion.

16 Know ye not, (Bob doesn't know) that "to whom ye yield yourselves" servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin (transgression of God's Laws) unto death, or of obedience (to God's Laws) unto righteousness?

On the one hand, a man serves sin, which still brings death, according to Paul. It's right there. But for the truly repentant Paul says,

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. (Yielded yourself and your body, to God)

18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of (God's) righteousness.

Bob S said:
that the Sabbath was a shadow and Jesus is reality,

God's Feasts and Sabbaths are shadows of things "yet to come", for a time that has not yet happened. That is why His People are told to honor them because they are most Holy. That's why Jesus, Paul and the First Church of God under HIS new Priesthood honored them. Not to you of course, they are not Holy to you, nor are they Holy to "Many" who come in Christ's Name. But they are Holy unto God.

Ex. 31: 14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

These Words of God became Flesh, in the person of the Jesus "of the Bible". He is truly the Lord of the Sabbath.

But "many", who call Jesus Lord, Lord, have yielded themselves servants to another Jesus.

Bob S said:
that the ten commandments were the ministry of death and have been done away,

No Bob, the Priesthood where animals were killed every day, was the "Ministry of death", and truly this Priesthood became old was was ready to vanish away.

But the Commandment "thou shall not kill, or "thou shall Love the Lord thy God", though has been done away with by "many" who profess to know God, they have never been done away with, by those who "Yield themselves" a servant to obey God.

Bob S said:
that Jesus destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,

Only the devil teaches that God's Laws created a "wall of separation" between Jews and non-jews. Or that God's Laws were against us. It was not God's Laws that led people astray, although the deceivers of this world promote just that. It was the preachers who "transgressed God's Commandments by their own religious traditions", the "other voice" in the garden. There is not One Law of God that relegated a faithful non-Jew as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world". And Paul tells you who promoted such falsehoods. But again, to believe what is written, you would have to question your own religion. Neither you, nor the Pharisees Loved God enough to believe in Him.

Bob S said:
by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulation,

He did expose the children of the devil, and their false teaching that led so many people astray. What is SAD, is that you too, have fallen for the deception that Jesus exposed His Father's Laws on the cross, Laws that HE Himself gave Moses in the first place.

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, You and the prince of this world teaches everyone that the principalities and powers Jesus spoiled "was HIS OWN POWER", before HE became Flesh and Blood. That is just stupid, and yet, that is exactly what you are promoting.

he made a shew of them openly, You and the prince of this world preach to anyone who will listen, that Jesus exposed "HIMSELF" openly, as HE was the One who created the Law YOU preach Jesus made a show of.

triumphing over them in it. You and the prince of this world preach to everyone that Jesus triumphed over His Own Laws on the cross.

And why? So you can make a little extra money each year? So you can live after the imagination of your own heart?

Bob S said:
and Why, then, was the law given at all?

That's easy, even a child can understand. "To teach men in the way they should go".

Is. 48: 16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

18 O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:

Bob S said:
It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come.

There is a Law that was ADDED until the Prophesied Priest of God came, that Abraham or Noah didn't have.

You say God "ADDED" His Sabbath. But God's Sabbath was instituted at creation. God's Sabbath was given before the Golden calf. The command for a common man to bring a goat to the Levite Priest for the remission of his sins, wasn't "ADDED" until after the Golden calf. At least this is what the Spirit of Christ had written in the Holy Scriptures.

Jer. 7: 22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.

The Law commanding the man who sinned, to kill a goat before forgiveness could be provided for, wasn't "ADDED" until 430 years after Abraham. And it was ADDED "because of Transgression", Till the Seed should come.

It's right there in your own Bible, if you would only believe.

Bob S · Jun 7, 2025

Studyman said:
His first coming, not His Prophesied Second.

So you admit Jesus fulfilled (brought to an end) the prophecies concerning His first coming, yet deny He fulfilled (brought to an end) the Sinai covenant laws. How can I trust anything you are trying to proclaim?

Studyman said:
Heb. 9: 28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them "that look for him" shall he appear "the second time" without sin unto salvation.

In your religion, your Jesus brought an end to God's Instruction in Righteousness. But as you can clearly see, the Jesus "of the Bible" did no such thing. Not because I think so, or some popular religion you have adopted says so, but because the Jesus "of the Bible" says so

As I have written over and over, laws concerning morality are forever. They existed from the beginning and will be with us until the end. All laws dealing with morality are summed up in the Royal Law of Love. If we love others as Jesus loves us, we will never ever do them harm. You cannot deny that 2Cor 3: 6-11 tells us we are not under the Ten Commandments. The Ten were only given to one nation in a covenant that that nation broke so many times. God gave all mankind a new and better covenant, and in our new and better covenant is the beautiful Royal Law of Love. Jesus proclaimed this law as new. Never before in any law has there been a requirement to give our lives for others. Jn 15:14. The new covenant does away with the Levitical Priesthood, Jesus is forever our High Priest, and when the Priesthood changed, also did the ritual laws. Jesus told us to go into all the world and spread the Good News. The Sabbath God gave to Israel was to be a day to remember God's freeing them from slavery in Egypt. Gentile nations were never enslaved in Egypt, so why would God require Gentiles to recognize and reverence a day made only for Israel?

Studyman said:
.I can only post HIS Words, I can't make you believe them.

The problem is that your postings weave a false narrative.

Studyman said:
Isaiah 65 doesn't justify disobedience, it exposes it.

Is. 65: 1 I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name. 2 I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;

3 A people "that provoketh me to anger continually to my face"; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick;

4 Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels;

5 Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.

6 Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom,

7 Your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the LORD, which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom.

8 Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do "for my servants' sakes", that I may not destroy them all.

9 And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.

Of all the Scriptures to choose from, you chose Isaiah to justify your rejection of God's Laws.

If only you could hear what he is actually teaching.

If only you would open your eyes to the whole story in place of all your false "proof texts".

Studyman said:
Actually, I am simply posting God's Words which bring a completely different gospel than your words, and I am advocating that men stop listening to all the "other voices" in the garden God placed us in, voices that you are promoting.

Actually, you have closed your mind to anything others understand as truth. Continuously ignoring or trying to change the meaning of key verses that prove my points by telling me I have a completely different gospel doesn't help prove that you have the real truth.

Studyman said:
Or is it just the Laws of God you don't like?

That is not a nice question. It proves that you don't digest my posts.

Studyman said:
I know your masters will not allow you to consider All of Paul's Teaching, as we have been here many times, but for those reading along, let's look at what he actually says.

Rom. 6: 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members "as instruments of righteousness unto God."

14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, (Dead in trespasses and sins) but under grace. (Alive by the Grace of God)

15 What then? "shall we sin", because we are not under the law, (dead in trespasses and sins) but under grace? (Alive by the Grace of God) "God forbid". That means NO Bob, we should continue in trespasses and sins, because we are no longer under the law.

So why are we to NOT to transgress God's Laws, after we repent and are forgiven, and are no longer dead in trespasses and sins? Paul explains exactly why, but Bob must omit this from his mind, as it is contrary to his adopted religion.

16 Know ye not, (Bob doesn't know) that "to whom ye yield yourselves" servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin (transgression of God's Laws) unto death, or of obedience (to God's Laws) unto righteousness?

On the one hand, a man serves sin, which still brings death, according to Paul. It's right there. But for the truly repentant Paul says,

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. (Yielded yourself and your body, to God)

18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of (God's) righteousness.

Studyman said:
No Bob, the Priesthood where animals were killed every day, was the "Ministry of death", and truly this Priesthood became old was was ready to vanish away.

Take heed if false doctrine is being taught. Paul wrote that the ministry of death is the following: 7But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,
2Cor3

Studyman said:
But the Commandment "thou shall not kill, or "thou shall Love the Lord thy God", though has been done away with by "many" who profess to know God, they have never been done away with, by those who "Yield themselves" a servant to obey God.

Only the devil teaches that God's Laws created a "wall of separation" between Jews and non-jews. Or that God's Laws were against us. It was not God's Laws that led people astray, although the deceivers of this world promote just that. It was the preachers who "transgressed God's Commandments by their own religious traditions", the "other voice" in the garden. There is not One Law of God that relegated a faithful non-Jew as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world". And Paul tells you who promoted such falsehoods. But again, to believe what is written, you would have to question your own religion. Neither you, nor the Pharisees Loved God enough to believe in Him.

So, are you calling Paul the devil?
11 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. Eph 2

timothyu · Jun 7, 2025

Bob S said:
He fulfilled (brought to an end) the Sinai covenant laws

Thought. Is that not irrelevant? Regardless of what laws, it is not the laws that matter but the will of God which is behind them. His will first... that will never come to an end. It didn't then, nor will it now or in the future.

Studyman · Jun 8, 2025

Bob S said:
So you admit Jesus fulfilled (brought to an end) the prophecies concerning His first coming, yet deny He fulfilled (brought to an end) the Sinai covenant laws. How can I trust anything you are trying to proclaim?

Bob, try and put aside the philosophies of your adopted religious sect for just a moment, and consider what is actually written in the Scriptures. Jesus is the Prophesied High Priest of God, and is the only Advocate between God and man that we have. He replacing the Temporary Advocate known as the Levitical Priesthood, in His First coming. He ushered in the New Priesthood. But all of this is to prepare the world for His second Coming, without which our Faith, that He promoted, is in vain. I posted His Own Words regarding this undeniable Biblical Truth, and you don't even trust His Word enough to even acknowledge it, much less trust it.

We still need an Advocate between God and us, "BECAUSE" Sin still exists in the world. Where there is no Law, there is no Sin. For you to imply that there is no longer Sin in the World, denies the very purpose of Christ's Coming.

The popular religious philosophy that you have been snared to promote, that the Christ came to abolish the very Laws HE gave to Moses, is foolishness, and frankly wicked. The Bible doesn't teach it anywhere. Only by taking ONE verse out of the Bible, and separating it from all other Scriptures, and Twisting it, can you support the insidious lie that Jesus came to Abolish His Own Laws.

That you have been convinced that you no longer NEED an advocate, is a wickedness no doubt. But to try and convince others that they no longer Need the Advocate is exceedingly wicked.

You are wise not to trust other men. But you are promoting to me, that I shouldn't Trust the Christ. And that is the exact same thing the serpent convinced Eve of. And how did the serpent deceive Eve? By "professing to know God", and quoting "SOME" of His Words.

You are free to live after the lie that "ALL" that was written about the Christ in the Holy Scriptures has already been fulfilled. And you can reject the Feasts of the Lord" that foreshadow things that are still "YET to COME", as Paul teaches.

But I am also free to warn by brothers to "Take Heed" of the religious sect you have adopted, and encourage them to place their trust in the Holy Scriptures. Not just the few you use to justify your flesh, but "Every Word" as the Jesus of the Bible instructs.

Bob S said:
As I have written over and over, laws concerning morality are forever. They existed from the beginning and will be with us until the end. All laws dealing with morality are summed up in the Royal Law of Love.

You are not the Judge of God, at least not to me. There is no instruction anywhere given in the holy scriptures, where men are tasked with Judging God or God's Laws a moral or immoral.

The hubris that must exist within the heart of men, that they have the authority to Judge God's Laws, some as moral, some as not moral, is astounding. I will have nothing to do with such a religious system. It's no wonder Jesus said to "Come out of her".

The entire foundation of your adopted religion is founded on falsehoods. You won't answer questions. You won't acknowledge or discuss Scriptures. When one falsehood is exposed, you just move to another.

I know from experience that you are here on a mission to promote your adopted religious philosophy, and are therefore not interested in honest discussion concerning what is actually written. So I could continue pointing out what the bible actually says, but you will just move to the next falsehood. And for what reason? So you can make 52 more days of income? So you can get in 18 more holes a week?

Duet. 6: 5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

This is the First and Greatest Commandment in the Law of Liberty, the Royal Law. Teaching people to reject or Judge God's Laws, is not loving Him, and it's not Loving them, at least according to HIS definition of Love, as defined in the Holy Scriptures..

Until you deny your flesh and come to terms with this Milk of the Word, there is no reason to continue.

KevinT · Jun 8, 2025

As I read the back and forth between the posters to this thread, it strikes me that it is the particular "Sabbath" commandment that seems to get people's back up against a wall.

Perhaps, when considering issues about the law, we should replace commandment #4 (Sabbath) with commandment #7 (adultery), and then see if the same arguments hold?

KT

JesusFollowerForever · Jun 8, 2025

KevinT said:
As I read the back and forth between the posters to this thread, it strikes me that it is the particular "Sabbath" commandment that seems to get people's back up against a wall.

Perhaps, when considering issues about the law, we should replace commandment #4 (Sabbath) with commandment #7 (adultery), and then see if the same arguments hold?

KT

I think that part of the problem is that the sabbath command, part of the covenant was replaced by men who do not have authority do to so, they hide behind what is describes in Acts where people gathered on Sunday to honour Christ's resurrection, however even in Acts, the disciples and paul did observe the sabbath, another part of the problem if the church did change the day from Saturday to Sunday in direct contradiction to God's command

Another part of the problem, people are entrenched in these false doctrines and do not want to change even of they know the truth, in effect, they reject the truth, they reject GOD.

Some might say, what difference if we observe Sunday instead of Saturday? well God did ask us to keep the last day of the week, Obedience is the key here. We should do God's will and not ours, God had a plan and does things for us, for our benefit always.

Bob S · Jun 8, 2025

Bob S said:
So you admit Jesus fulfilled (brought to an end) the prophecies concerning His first coming, yet deny He fulfilled (brought to an end) the Sinai covenant laws. How can I trust anything you are trying to proclaim?

Studyman said:
Bob, try and put aside the philosophies of your adopted religious sect for just a moment, and consider what is actually written in the Scriptures. Jesus is the Prophesied High Priest of God, and is the only Advocate between God and man that we have. He replacing the Temporary Advocate known as the Levitical Priesthood, in His First coming. He ushered in the New Priesthood. But all of this is to prepare the world for His second Coming, without which our Faith, that He promoted, is in vain. I posted His Own Words regarding this undeniable Biblical Truth, and you don't even trust His Word enough to even acknowledge it, much less trust it.

Your response to my statement has absolutely nothing to do with the statement. You are in complete denial of the real truth, and anything you write, I have to take with a grain of salt. If, at some point, you agree to respond to the topic, I will be glad to continue the debate.

KevinT · Jun 8, 2025

JesusFollowerForever said:
Another part of the problem, people are entrenched in these false doctrines and do not want to change even of they know the truth, in effect, they reject the truth, they reject GOD.

I hear what you are saying and I think I understand your position. But in God's eyes, we all have misunderstandings about this point or that. And God is gracious and tries to lay out a path to understanding. People, unfortunately, are creatures of habit. And it is hard to believe that all the good-intentioned religious instruction that they have received from childhood is now reported to be wrong. It is a big change to make.

As a result of all this, I see both sides pulling out their hair because it seems so OBVIOUS to them that their position is correct, and the other is wrong. Then come the accusations of acting in poor faith or being stubborn or something else.

I don't think that conversions or enlightenment come as a result of a bloody nose at the end of a fist fight.

KT

BobRyan · Jun 8, 2025

Bob S said:
So you admit Jesus fulfilled (brought to an end) the prophecies concerning His first coming

fulfilling prophecy does not "bring it to an end" -- it confirms it.

Bob S said:
, yet deny He fulfilled (brought to an end) the Sinai covenant laws

Moral laws are not "ended" when complied with.

"Do not take God's name in vain" does not get "ended" as soon as someone does not take God's name in vain.

I don't see how this gets turned into "brought to an end" when someone fulfills that requirement. It is an imperative.
Imperatives don't get ended/deleted by compliance.

I think we all know that.

BobRyan · Jun 8, 2025

JesusFollowerForever said:
Some might say, what difference if we observe Sunday instead of Saturday? well God did ask us to keep the last day of the week, Obedience is the key here. We should do God's will and not ours, God had a plan and does things for us, for our benefit always.

Good point.

The real question is "what saith the Lord" - what does God's Word actually say.!

Mark 7:7-13 points us to the problem of setting aside the Word of God - via the pontifications and substitutes of man.

BobRyan · Jun 8, 2025

KevinT said:
As I read the back and forth between the posters to this thread, it strikes me that it is the particular "Sabbath" commandment that seems to get people's back up against a wall.

agreed.

When we quote "Do not take God's name in vain" not nearly as many hands fly up in the air in objection to that command - as when we quote God's Sabbath commandment.

KevinT said:
Perhaps, when considering issues about the law, we should replace commandment #4 (Sabbath) with commandment #7 (adultery), and then see if the same arguments hold?

KT

A very good test. In fact take any of the commandments before the Sabbath - and substitute them in to see if objections will fly off the table so quickly as they do with the Sabbath Commandment.

BobRyan · Jun 8, 2025

Bob S said:
He fulfilled (brought to an end) the Sinai covenant laws.

false

Bob S said:
As I have written over and over, laws concerning morality are forever.

Which is why we affirm God's TEN

Bob S said:
They existed from the beginning and will be with us until the end.

As we see with the 7th day made a holy day in Gen 2:2-3 and affirmed as such in Ex 20:11 pointing directly to Gen 2:2-3 as the day when God made that Sabbath Holy.

In fact the Sabbath was "made for mankind" in that same week that "mankind was made" In Gen 1-2 as Mark 2:27 tells us "The Sabbath was MADE for mankind not mankind MADE for the Sabbath"

No wonder Is 66:23 tells us that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth - "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship"

daq · Jun 8, 2025

BobRyan said:
agreed.

When we quote "Do not take God's name in vain" not nearly as many hands fly up in the air in objection to that command - as when we quote God's Sabbath commandment.

A very good test. In fact take any of the commandments before the Sabbath - and substitute them in to see if objections will fly off the table so quickly as they do with the Sabbath Commandment.

According to the scripture even stealing is taking the name of YHWH Elohim in vain, (for as you surely already know, a name is much more than a simple spelling in the scripture/Hebrew mindset).

Proverbs 30:8-9 KJV
8 Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me:
9 Lest I be full, and deny thee, and say, Who is the LORD? or lest I be poor, and steal, and take the name of my God in vain.

"You shall not steal", as we know, is the eighth commandment, (Exodus 20:15). Therefore if to break the eighth commandment also violates the third commandment, no doubt then, abrogating the fourth commandment also violates the third commandment: for the Shabbat commandment immediately follows the third commandment.

I know you already know the following so consider this for others who may not be as informed on the order.

Exodus 20:7-15 KJV
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. [#3]
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. [#4]
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. [#5]
13 Thou shalt not kill. [#6]
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery. [#7]
15 Thou shalt not steal. [#8]

The relationship between the Ten Commandments, the Sabbath, and the New Covenant

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