The reason why Job had to suffer.

[Dan Bert]

You do not consider the law...there are sins that cannot be forgiven in this world and there are sins that cannot be forgiven in this world nor in the next world.

The problem does not lie with the ability of GOD to forgive....it is putting ourselves beyond repentance. Those who put themselves beyond repentance, in this world and also in the next world go the OUTER DARKNESS Jesus spoke of in the NT. This teaching can be found in Jude and in the Books of Enoch. The Greater the sin against the light the greater one puts themselves in a position beyond the power of the Holy Ghost to bring that person to repentance.

That is how it worked in the OT and that is how it works in the NT. Hebrews 6:3-4 speak of those who receives the gifts, experience the light and fall. This following allegory was used by Jesus who said once the salt has lost its flavor there is nothing left to salt the meat. We have to be salted. But once salted if we fall there is nothing stronger to salt us again.

bert10

Please show us where it is written that Job got a new wife. Was he also allowed to write a certificate of divorce?

Perfect love is perfect love
Job prayed for his friends but not his wife?

Moses sister grumbled against him and Moses prayed for her

But job, perfected in love, only prayed for his friends?

Is that perfect, unbiased, impartial love?
Or selective love?

 

[miknik5]

Here is how it works and it explain why Jesus had to do the ministration twice to the blind man he was healing. Here is what your teachers could not teach you. Health comes from within. A healer has the ability by faith to draw it out of the sick or injured person. Jesus could have healed the blind man in Luke, by His own power. That would have been a violation to his will to remain blind. The man after the first ministration could not see perfectly, so Jesus did it again. This increased his faith until the healing could be performed. Jesus never healed any one who did not have the faith to be healed. That is why sometime placebo works better than the drugs. As I have said, health comes from within Because the kingdom of God is within. And inside that kingdom there are gifts, knowledge, wisdom, health etc. Now you know a lot more how things works like healing and why. The ability to self heal is a gift.

bert12

I would like to know if this "theory" works for the man mentioned on John 9

 

[Dan Bert]

I know enough of that Gospel to say that if that only those who are led by the Spirit of GOD are called son by GOD

Romans 8:14 - For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

I know a lot of Christians who claim to be sons and daughters of GOD, but they are not led by the Spirit of GOD, they are deceived. What counts is what GOD says we are. Children of wrath belongs in the gospel of repentance. What I am seeing in Christian people and nations is wrath, (Floods, fire new plagues, economic woes) etc.
bert12

You do not know the Gospel of the Grace of GOD

 

[Dan Bert]

I am sorry it was mark...
Mark 8:23
23 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his
hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
Mark 8:24
24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
Mark 8:25
25 After that he put [his] hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man

Can you be more specific about John 9 ....Gotta go to work now.

bert12

I would like to know if this "theory" works for the man mentioned on John 9

 

[miknik5]

I know enough of that Gospel to say that if that only those who are led by the Spirit of GOD are called son by GOD

Romans 8:14 - For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

I know a lot of Christians who claim to be sons and daughters of GOD, but they are not led by the Spirit of GOD, they are deceived. What counts is what GOD says we are. Children of wrath belongs in the gospel of repentance. What I am seeing in Christian people and nations is wrath, (Floods, fire new plagues, economic woes) etc.
bert12

We'll wait won't we until the sons of "righteousness" are revealed for I know all of creation was made subject to vanity so that those who wait will wait by THEIR HOPE

Romans 8:20

It really IS CHRIST in us OUR HOPE of glory
For those who HOPE in HIM purify themselves even as HE IS PURE

(Even if you don't like the outside and think it less than "perfect")

 

[miknik5]

Gehazzi thought the outside was clean

And Naaman?

He did one thing that was needed and because of it, he was made clean

In the end both Gehazzi and Naaman will be manifested by what "treasures" they held to

 

[miknik5]

Keep talking sir but never really providing THE TRUTH

 

[miknik5]

I have another question

Rahab?

Would you say she was clean?

What do you think Rahab did that provided to her LIFE?

And what did CHRIST mean when HE said the prostitues are entering the kingdom before those (who think themselves soooooooo clean)?

 

[miknik5]

I will wait for your "answers" that never answer

 

[miknik5]

What does
It mean to bring forth fruit in keeping with repentance for those who have moved on to "another gospel"

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

GOD gave us the gospel of repentance for removing imperfections, Ego which is where pride reside. You can pray all you want, but at the end of the day ....If you have not made efforts to repent...He will not remove them. There is no substitution for the gospel of repentance under heaven for making us meek and humble and for cleansing ourselves.

bert12

Praise God! It sounds like you know exactly what to do and you're on your way. May God be with you Bert.

 

[Philip_B]

All the OT prophets prophecied of CHRIST

They may not have fully understood that then
But they do now

And all their words were in service to us.

I am sorry, I am not choosing to be difficult, I certainly get that many of the OT Prophets have aspects which reveal or prefigure something of Jesus - as in Job (not necessarily a prophet), a good person suffering - HOWEVER I think that we need to be careful about over reaching the claim to ALL and limiting it specifically to prophecy. There have been many texts that we have appropriated in Christianity which may well have had (almost certainly did have) a completely different purpose and meaning in the original context. There is an alarming danger in trying to find Jesus in the Old Testament as this leads to an eisegesis of the text rather than an exegesis of the text. This then means that we short-change the text and we do not learn what the text has for us, but rather seek to extract from the text what we already know.

I can't imagine what leads you to say all their words were in service to us which I find a very uncomfortable statement mainly as it seems to put us at the centre of meaning which seems to me a little self exhorting.

I assure you I mean no disrespect, however I think a little differently I suspect.

 

[W2L]

I am sorry, I am not choosing to be difficult, I certainly get that many of the OT Prophets have aspects which reveal or prefigure something of Jesus - as in Job (not necessarily a prophet), a good person suffering - HOWEVER I think that we need to be careful about over reaching the claim to ALL and limiting it specifically to prophecy. There have been many texts that we have appropriated in Christianity which may well have had (almost certainly did have) a completely different purpose and meaning in the original context. There is an alarming danger in trying to find Jesus in the Old Testament as this leads to an eisegesis of the text rather than an exegesis of the text. This then means that we short-change the text and we do not learn what the text has for us, but rather seek to extract from the text what we already know.

I can't imagine what leads you to say all their words were in service to us which I find a very uncomfortable statement mainly as it seems to put us at the centre of meaning which seems to me a little self exhorting.

I assure you I mean no disrespect, however I think a little differently I suspect.

James seems to suggest Job was a prophet, and also say we should take the prophets as examples of endurance in suffering.

 

[miknik5]

I am sorry, I am not choosing to be difficult, I certainly get that many of the OT Prophets have aspects which reveal or prefigure something of Jesus - as in Job (not necessarily a prophet), a good person suffering - HOWEVER I think that we need to be careful about over reaching the claim to ALL and limiting it specifically to prophecy. There have been many texts that we have appropriated in Christianity which may well have had (almost certainly did have) a completely different purpose and meaning in the original context. There is an alarming danger in trying to find Jesus in the Old Testament as this leads to an eisegesis of the text rather than an exegesis of the text. This then means that we short-change the text and we do not learn what the text has for us, but rather seek to extract from the text what we already know.

I can't imagine what leads you to say all their words were in service to us which I find a very uncomfortable statement mainly as it seems to put us at the centre of meaning which seems to me a little self exhorting.

I assure you I mean no disrespect, however I think a little differently I suspect.

Job pled and prophecied man's dilemma in Job 9...
Job understood the "catch 22" of opening his mouth before GOD.
By opening his mouth, and "stating his case" before GOD (as his foolish friends suggested) he exalts himself to a level equal with GOD, (as if he can sit side by side with GOD and bring to GOD's mind a recollection of his "most righteous deeds") all the while, by opening his mouth, he whether knowingly and/or unknowingly deems his own brothers (members of his own species) less worthy/less righteous than himself...

And in this, he professes his own false sense of self-righteousness...

Job knew GOD and he would not open his mouth before GOD lest his mouth cause him to sin. But, because of the "encouragement" and "prompting and prodding" of those who did not know GOD, Job opened his mouth...

I assure you sir...that Job's suffering was in service to us...
For in the last days, when darkness comes, when the hedge is removed, when HE who holds all things back is taken out of the way, we should wait, just as Job waited...knowing OUR REDEEMER lives and in the last day, (though our flesh may wear away) still and even in the flesh, we shall see HIM standing upon the earth in the last days...

 

[Philip_B]

I assure you sir...that Job's suffering was in service to us...

Why do you need it to be about you all the time. It seems a very egocentric understanding of the story.

 

[miknik5]

Why do you need it to be about you all the time. It seems a very egocentric understanding of the story.

Yeah it's about me


I am fine.
Believe me I am fine. I already know what is required of me

 

[Philip_B]

Yeah it's about me


I am fine.
Believe me I am fine. I already know what is required of me

I assure you I mean no disrespect, however I think a little differently I suspect.

 

[Dan Bert]

Christ does not want us to emulate Him. Fools Gold is not worth anything. Christ (Anointed with Light) wish all of us one day to be ourselves Annointed with Light. Or be enlightened.

BTW Righteousness means doing right by GOD's right. In other works we need to be led by the Spirit. Without being led by the Spirit we cannot be adopted Spiritually as a Son of GOD. Without being led by the Spirit we must fall on our own righteousness/knowledge of good and evil for judging which GOD calls filthy rags.

There is righteousness that comes from GOD to us. That is being led by the Spirit of GOD...it is not our righteousness but His we do.

There is righteousness that comes from our knowledge of good and evil which fallible and finite. And it is this GOD calls filthy rags.

bert12

We'll wait won't we until the sons of "righteousness" are revealed for I know all of creation was made subject to vanity so that those who wait will wait by THEIR HOPE

Romans 8:20

It really IS CHRIST in us OUR HOPE of glory
For those who HOPE in HIM purify themselves even as HE IS PURE

(Even if you don't like the outside and think it less than "perfect")

 

[miknik5]

Christ does not want us to emulate Him. Fools Gold is not worth anything. Christ (Anointed with Light) wish all of us one day to be ourselves Annointed with Light. Or be enlightened.

BTW Righteousness means doing right by GOD's right. In other works we need to be led by the Spirit. Without being led by the Spirit we cannot be adopted Spiritually as a Son of GOD. Without being led by the Spirit we must fall on our own righteousness/knowledge of good and evil for judging which GOD calls filthy rags.

There is righteousness that comes from GOD to us. That is being led by the Spirit of GOD...it is not our righteousness but His we do.

There is righteousness that comes from our knowledge of good and evil which fallible and finite. And it is this GOD calls filthy rags.

bert12

Ah. Well that's not what GOD said

Those HE foreknew HE (actually) predestined to be conformed to THE IMAGE of HIS SON

In fact we are supposed to grow up into The Head unto the full measure of CHRIST a "perfect man" fit for every good work which GOD prepared in advance that we should walk in

 

[miknik5]

We can't be adopted?

You mean those who have been transferred out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of Light in His Son and are seated in the heavenly realms with and in Christ Jesus and have a deposit guaranteeing their inheritance in HIM are still waiting for their ABBA to adopt them?"