The reason for homosexuality

[BigBadWlf]

Than you misunderstand polygenetic traits. African-american's have brown eyes. Nordic people have blue eyes. Across results in an in-between, a light brown i believe. Since, theoretically, homosexual people would have been killed or not passed on their traits because they despised sex with women. The entire population is straight and the "homosexual" alleles disperse into obscurity. Even if it were true less than 1% of the population would be gay.

you really have no clue as to how genetics work do you?

 

[Der Alte]

AS posted earlier…and ignored by you.

Bailey and Pillard did NOT come to the concussion you claim and in fact disagree with your conclusion.

Sorry this is a blatant and deliberate false statement! But I have grown to expect every form of deception, misquoting, quoting out of context, deliberate misrepresentation, etc. from everyone on the homosexual side of these discussions.

I know what I posted, and what I said, you evidently did not even read it. If you did, you lack basic comprehension. I did NOT say that B&P came to that conclusion. Here is what I “concluded.” I quoted statistics from a secular health organization taken directly from the Bailey and Pillard study. Then I, me, myself, concluded that based on these statistics, that PROVES homosexuality is not genetic.

If homosexuality was genetic, since monozygotic/identical twins are genetically identical, if one twin is homosexual, then virtually 100% of the other twins must be homosexual as well. Not somewhere between; 52%, B&P study, and 38% Australian study.

Bailey and Pillard (1991): occurrence of homosexuality among brothers

52% of identical (monozygotic) twins of homosexual men were likewise homosexual
22% of fraternal (dizygotic) twins were likewise homosexual
11% of adoptive brothers of homosexual men were likewise homosexual

J.M. Bailey and R.C. Pillard, “A genetic study of male sexual orientation,” Archives of General Psychiatry, vol. 48:1089-1096, December 1991

http://www.worldpolicy.org/globalrights/sexorient/twins.html
​

A genetic study of male sexual orientation by J. M. Bailey and R. C. Pillard concluded: "childhood gender nonconformity does not appear to be an indicator of genetic loading for homosexuality" which is nothing like what you are claiming they say.

Go back get your facts straight, if you are capable, then get back to me with your argument.

Worse for your claim both Bailey and Pillard have enegaged in numerous other studies where they find evidence that sexual orientation is in fact in-born

J. M. Bailey, R. C. Pillard Human sexual orientation has a heritable component. Human Biology1998 Apr;70(2):347-65
“Family, twin, and adoptee studies indicate that homosexuality and thus heterosexuality run in families.”

Which studies, their own previous 1991 study? If it is a more recent one, let’s see some data? And OBTW “indicate” is NOT proof, especially in view of their other comments, below such as unsystematic subject selection and methodological flaw. Also “an indication,” NOT proof, of “a (as in one) heritable component” does not establish that homosexuality is inherited.

J. M. Bailey, R. C. Pillard et al A Family History Study of Male Sexual Orientation Using Three Independent Samples. J of Behavioral Genetics. V29 number 2, 1999.
“Available evidence suggests that male homosexuality is both familial and somewhat heritable and that some cases may be caused by an X-linked gene. However, most studies have recruited subjects in a relatively unsystematic manner, typically via advertisements, and hence suffer from the potential methodological flaw of ascertainment bias due to volunteer self-selection. In the present study we assessed the familiality of male homosexuality using two carefully ascertained samples and attempted to replicate findings consistent with X-linkage in three samples.”

I have highlighted the huge gaping flaws in this quote, “evidence suggests,” “somewhat heritable,””some cases may be caused.” This is nothing but pseudo scientific mumo-jumbo, guesswork.

Did they, in fact, replicate findings consistent with X-linkage, in their studies and disprove the earlier flawed, unsystematic studies? If so, why didn’t you post a summary of their findings? Could it be because the facts don’t back up your argument?

J. M. Bailey, R. C. Pillard, M. C. Neale and Y. Agyei Heritable factors influence sexual orientation in women. Archives of Gen Psychology Vol. 50 No. 3, March 1993
“Heritabilities were significant”

What is significant, 10% 20% 50%? How large were the test and control groups?

J. M. Bailey, Bell A.P. Familiality of female and male homosexuality Behavioral Genetics V. 23, No. 4, 1993.
“We examined data from a large cohort of homosexual and heterosexual females and males concerning their siblings' sexual orientations. As in previous studies, both male and female homosexuality were familial.

Nature vs. nurture. If a person grows up in a family with homosexuals they are more likely to be homosexual. That is familial, NOT genetic or inborn.

I am not familiar with the medical term “a large cohort,” what is it?

I may not have this totally correct but I saw a post here somewhere, stating that for each older brother a male has it increases his chances of being homosexual by 33%. I wonder what the ratio is for younger brothers that are not molested, from an early age, by older brothers?

K. M. Kirk , J. M. Bailey, M. P. Dunne and N. G. Martin Measurement Models for Sexual Orientation in a Community Twin Sample. Behavioral Genetics V. 30, NO.4, 2000.
“Analysis… providing stronger evidence for the existence of additive genetic influences on this phenotype than in a previous analysis (Bailey et al., 2000).”

I do not trust those ellipses, especially from you, after the other stuff you posted here. “stronger evidence for the existence of additive genetic influences” is NOT proof that additive genetic influences exist. Let me know when this is conclusively proven. Then we might talk about “influences.” Like for example, are there “additive genetic influences” for people to be blue eyed, brown haired, tall, etc.

 

[Der Alte]

you really have no clue as to how genetics work do you?

Do you? Why don't you impress us with all your knowledge, such as the twins studies above.

 

[david_x]

you really have no clue as to how genetics work do you?

Very well, what are your ideas. Or do you prefer to selfeshly conseal your mastery of genetics from the rest of the world?

 

[chnchris]

I made the "choice" to follow "unnatural desire" when I was eight.

Did you have male contact at 8? That sounds more like
innocent child exploration than being homosexual.

I remember it just like it was yesterday: it was April, 1963 and I looked out my bedroom window at a cherry tree which was blossoming in our side yard and decided, "I'm going to become a HO-MO-SEXUAL!"

When did you wake up and say it?
There must have been a point in time.
Why did you decide this?


JMJ +
chris

 

[chnchris]

I already did the thing of asking God why I was gay and could He take it away and did all of that between 1966 and 1970; and God finally got it through my head that I was the way I was and that was that and it wasn't going to change -- and I got the distinct message from God to stop groveling on the ground and apologizing for my existence and start living like everybody else!

How do you know it was God speaking to you.? Satan is the
great deceiver and master of lies; he will tempt us always
to explore our greatest sinful weaknesses, which for you
is homosexuality it sounds. You have been sold a false
bill of goods.


JMJ+
chris

 

[chnchris]

Now, I'm in a 17 year relationship and we've bought a home together in a nice neighborhood, are both employed, rapidly paying off our debts, live with wonderful neighbors and attend a church where we're both happy. I'd say God has blessed us.

Living good does not equal being blessed by God.
In fact, if you're sinnng, you are not in His graces.


JMJ+
chris

 

[chnchris]

Of course, I believe the Genesis creation stories (and Babel, and the Flood) to be instructive myths and not real-life events.

What you believe is meaningless.

I don't pick the parts of Scripture which "are supposed to apply to me" and dismiss them because I'm "trying to justify my lifestyle" (whatever that is).)

How do deal with those Scriptures on the mortal sin of
homosexuality? To continue in sin and be a faithful Christian,
is contrary to the laws of God.


JMJ+
chris

 

[UnitedInChrist]

How do you know it was God speaking to you.? Satan is the
great deceiver and master of lies; he will tempt us always
to explore our greatest sinful weaknesses, which for you
is homosexuality it sounds. You have been sold a false
bill of goods.


JMJ+
chris

Was there a need to right something so hateful? How sad you call yourself a Christian and you mock someone else for who they are and thell them that is Satan speaking to them. Your post should be removed. As my own pastor just said to us tonite, when other judgemental Christians tell you what you are doing is wrong, look in their face and say "If God loves me...why can't u"? It's message you need to say to yoursef JMJ.
If you represented what a true Christian is...I'd run away as fast as I could, so tell me who's been sold a false bill of goods.

 

[Brieuse]

Sorry this is a blatant and deliberate false statement! But I have grown to expect every form of deception, misquoting, quoting out of context, deliberate misrepresentation, etc. from everyone on the homosexual side of these discussions.

I have grown to tolerate every form of deception, misquoting, quoting out of context, deliberate misrepresentation, etc. from everyone on the heterosexual side of these discussions.

 

[chnchris]

If you represented what a true Christian is...I'd run away as fast as I could,

As a true Christian, i am called to assist in love my
brother to attain holiness.


JMJ+
chris

 

[UnitedInChrist]

For some reason Apple would always come to my head when I read the bible about Tree of Life. Touche on the apple.

But honestly, no one said you had to stop being gay. The bible just states if you want to follow God, you cannot practice homosexuality and must abstain from it.
Your welcome to go back to the world of the Flesh and practice homosexuality if you want to.

Likewise for hetrosexuals, they must abstain from sexual practices before marriage.

Look on the brightside, at least you don't get tempted by women

With all the things that are said back and forth on these boards of what is getting one into heaven and what isn't....what sort of weight do you hold in the scripture that says "Believe in Me and you will have the Kingdom of God"? If at the same time you say I have premarital sex I'm not getting there, but I believe in God and I am getting there...one can become very confused.

 

[chnchris]

With all the things that are said back and forth on these boards of what is getting one into heaven and what isn't....what sort of weight do you hold in the scripture that says "Believe in Me and you will have the Kingdom of God"? If at the same time you say I have premarital sex I'm not getting there, but I believe in God and I am getting there...one can become very confused.

It has to do with what " believing " means; ie, it means
following Him and all His teachings as revealed by the
Scriptures and His teachings. Remember, even Satan and
the evil angels "believed", but they certainly did not
follow His Way.

Pax,
chris

 

[EnemyPartyII]

How do you know it was God speaking to you.? Satan is the
great deceiver and master of lies; he will tempt us always
to explore our greatest sinful weaknesses, which for you
is homosexuality it sounds. You have been sold a false
bill of goods.

Well how does anyone ever know that their beliefs come from God not Satan? at the end of the day, it all comes down to us having faith in God and ourselves that we are doing the right thing

 

[UberLutheran]

Living good does not equal being blessed by God.
In fact, if you're sinnng, you are not in His graces.


JMJ+
chris

Well, since ALL of us are sinning, ALL of the time -- I guess that means that NONE of us are in His grace.

If that's the case, I'd say Heaven is going to be a very, VERY quiet place.

Of course, there's that "justified by grace, through faith" thingie, but we've been fighting over that since 1517.

 

[BAFRIEND]

Well, since ALL of us are sinning, ALL of the time -- I guess that means that NONE of us are in His grace.

If that's the case, I'd say Heaven is going to be a very, VERY quiet place.

Of course, there's that "justified by grace, through faith" thingie, but we've been fighting over that since 1517.

Yes, we are all sinners. Yet through God's grace, we repent and are granted forgiveness.

Repenting means to be genuinely sorry for the wrong and for offending God. Repenting is not symbolized nor accepted if one does not make the effort to change in even difficult situations, such as when one lives in the scandal of portraying a domestic homosexual living situation.

 

[Brieuse]

Yes, we are all sinners. Yet through God's grace, we repent and are granted forgiveness.

Repenting means to be genuinely sorry for the wrong and for offending God. Repenting is not symbolized nor accepted if one does not make the effort to change in even difficult situations, such as when one lives in the scandal of portraying a domestic homosexual living situation.

Scandal?

nice choice of word.

ohhh the scandal, two men affectionate to each other in the privacy of their own homes.

 

[BAFRIEND]

Scandal?

nice choice of word.

ohhh the scandal, two men affectionate to each other in the privacy of their own homes.

Leading a public life of sin is scandal. i would hold the same true for a heterosexual unmarried couple living together.

 

[Brieuse]

Leading a public life of sin is scandal. i would hold the same true for a heterosexual unmarried couple living together.

ahh ok. So you are saying a heterosexual unmarried couple are not in a holy marriage?

What about all those that get married in a court? Is that a holy marriage?

 

[BAFRIEND]

ahh ok. So you are saying a heterosexual unmarried couple are not in a holy marriage?

What about all those that get married in a court? Is that a holy marriage?

NO. Marriage is a sacrament and is only binding by God. Men cannot be married to men regardless of what manmade entity licenses it. A marriage can only occur in the eyes of God.

If you went down and got a "Born Again License" from the mayor, do you think that would guarantee you entry into heaven ?