The realization of our motives...

[Soul_Tsunami]

Hello everyone I am new to the forums but not new to Christian discussions and debate. It seems as though most sin today has a motive behind it. We hear about it in court cases, we see it at work, and we see it in our relationships. It's no wonder there's so much suspicion or lack of trust in all that we do. It seems everyone has an angle. Denying it is of no use since all are guilty in one-way shape or form be it positive or negative.

Proverbs 16:2 says, “All a person’s ways seem pure to them, but motives are weighed by the LORD.” Because the human heart is very deceitful (Jeremiah 17:9), we can easily fool ourselves about our own motives.

I'd love to get your thoughts on how you look at your own motives and how and if you tried to tackle them. I've personally been focusing most of my energy, prayers, and devotion on conquering my own motives I realize I have in my thoughts, words, and actions.

Believe me, it has been very eye-opening, to say the least. What say you?

 

[Freth]

Selfishness and pride are what manifested in Satan.

Selfishness—Isaiah 14:13-14 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Pride—Ezekiel 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

What we see today, in us, is that same selfishness, that same pride.

How to tackle selfishness and pride in our lives? Love.

Love is found in God's commandments. The commandments to love God and love your neighbor that Jesus gave in Matthew 22 were not new, they were given in Deuteronomy 6:5 (love God) and Leviticus 19:18 (love your neighbor) in direct association with the Ten Commandments given on Mt. Sinai.

Love is a reflection God's character. If we love God we keep His commandments. If we love our neighbor, we help them in their time of need, and treat them right. Jesus set an example for us, so reading His story and applying His teachings to our lives is a good start.

If you love someone, you will always do right by them, and your own motivations—selfishness and pride—won't factor into your thoughts and actions.

 

[Robban]

Why does there have to be a motive?

Hillel would say,
Be of the disciples of Aaron--
A lover of peace,
a persuer of peace,
one who loves the creatures and
draws them close to Torah.
(Ethics of the Fathers 1:12)

Just do it.

 

[Neutral Observer]

Why does there have to be a motive?

Hillel would say,
Be of the disciples of Aaron--
A lover of peace,
a persuer of peace,
one who loves the creatures and
draws them close to Torah.

Well then that's your motive...at least superficially.

 

[Robban]

Well then that's your motive...at least superficially.

Purpose, I think fits better.

Motive sounds more like a crime scene

 

[timothyu]

What say you?

Consider the people who like to help others. They also feel good about themselves in the process. Whether it comes naturally or we learn to imitate the actions of others, we inevitably feel pride in what we do. That is focusing on the desires of self. There is no getting away from it, as that self awareness came upon mankind in the Garden. That choice Eve made was self oriented, the original sin.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

The scripture talks about "evil surmisings."

1 Timothy 6:4-5 KJV
4. He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5. Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

Other versions use "evil suspicions."

It is when you assume an evil motive to someone. Much like the term "hate speech" today where a person is considered guilty of an accusation based solely on the perceptions of the accuser. We really cannot help how someone is going to perceive why we do what we do. I like vanilla ice cream. It would be an evil surmising or and evil suspicion to assume that means I am a racist. I do not like mutilating children for some imagined gender dysphoria. It would be evil surmising to assume the motivation is hate toward those who suffer from this mental illness. This no doubt is one of the most prevalent aberrations in our culture today. Everyone wants to be a victim, so they assign motives to other peoples actions. Most common is the notion that if I disagree with you, it can only mean I hate you. Yet people today are losing jobs, credibility, and standing based on this bogus concept of "wokeism." The above verse exactly describes this negative and evil movement in our culture. From such withdraw thyself is the best advice. They are like the "sparrows" of Game of Thrones. Fanatics. Deranged.

 

[Soul_Tsunami]

Here are examples of motives that may or may not be Godly motives...

1. Helping someone expecting to gain something. As a former Technology Consultant, my obvious motive was money. However, my approach would have been to help the client with their technology needs. Technically, I am helping the client (Pardon the pun) but my end goal is the money I would gain by doing so.

2. As a sinful human it is very common to judge someone for a myriad of reasons... Have you ever caught yourself judging someone in your thoughts or actions?

3. Lying no matter how small is a sin...white lies are just as sinful. You can know the minute that thought/temptation enters the mind. Succumbing to that no matter how trivial it might be to me is a big deal to God.

These are just a few among millions that we are tempted with every day, all day.

As Christians, we all still sin. Imagine you're doing service for your church or an outreach group...As an older man, I may be doing it to keep busy during retirement. I may be doing it to be "seen" by my Christian friends or acquaintances. Purely selfish motives as you can see.

Our thoughts, words, and actions play a vital role in our Christian walk toward maturity. Out of these motives come an innumerable number of sins. My question is can this be controlled? What I am finding, is yes to a degree but only with God/Jesus/Holy Spirit's help. What's left I believe are the things that God wants me to work on...

I believe it all starts with examining our thoughts. I believe they control our words and actions. God gives us the strength to be more than conquerors. In doing so, our hearts will be changed as the Holy Spirit works in us.

Thoughts?

 

[timothyu]

Only God is perfect. Even His creations in heaven, the various elohim, fail.

 

[Robban]

Here are examples of motives that may or may not be Godly motives...

1. Helping someone expecting to gain something. As a former Technology Consultant, my obvious motive was money. However, my approach would have been to help the client with their technology needs. Technically, I am helping the client (Pardon the pun) but my end goal is the money I would gain by doing so.

2. As a sinful human it is very common to judge someone for a myriad of reasons... Have you ever caught yourself judging someone in your thoughts or actions?

3. Lying no matter how small is a sin...white lies are just as sinful. You can know the minute that thought/temptation enters the mind. Succumbing to that no matter how trivial it might be to me is a big deal to God.

These are just a few among millions that we are tempted with every day, all day.

As Christians, we all still sin. Imagine you're doing service for your church or an outreach group...As an older man, I may be doing it to keep busy during retirement. I may be doing it to be "seen" by my Christian friends or acquaintances. Purely selfish motives as you can see.

Our thoughts, words, and actions play a vital role in our Christian walk toward maturity. Out of these motives come an innumerable number of sins. My question is can this be controlled? What I am finding, is yes to a degree but only with God/Jesus/Holy Spirit's help. What's left I believe are the things that God wants me to work on...

I believe it all starts with examining our thoughts. I believe they control our words and actions. God gives us the strength to be more than conquerors. In doing so, our hearts will be changed as the Holy Spirit works in us.

Thoughts?

Seems to me there is nothing wrong with you except you are listening to your evil
inclination.

While you were working you were providing a service, we all have to make a living.

If we want to split hairs,
to go from store to store with no intention other than pick the brains and know how of someone working there,

it is theft, stealing the attendants time and know how for own gain.

Do not listen to the evil inclination, we all have one.

An act of goodness and kindness is done out of goodness and kindness, no motive required.

 

[Soul_Tsunami]

I disagree with your view...We all have a sinful nature, God determines our true motives.
Proverbs 16:2
KJV
All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes, but the Lord weigheth the spirits.
NIV
All a person’s ways seem pure to them, but motives are weighed by the Lord.

 

[Soul_Tsunami]

Only God is perfect. Even His creations in heaven, the various elohim, fail.

There was no sin in heaven after the fall...I can find nowhere in the bible where angels sinned after the fall that can be verified. Can you point to your source if I am understanding you correctly?

 

[IoanC]

God's Holy Angels are not sinners. In the context in which sin means a transgression of God's Law. Otherwise, true, only God is perfect, angels being virtuous through His Grace.

 

[Robban]

I disagree with your view...We all have a sinful nature, God determines our true motives.
Proverbs 16:2
KJV
All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes, but the Lord weigheth the spirits.
NIV
All a person’s ways seem pure to them, but motives are weighed by the Lord.

Yeah, it's part of human nature, other creatures thrive by following their nature.

Human nature demands that you transcend nature.

"The smaller you make yourself,
the easier to escape your cell."

 

[Soul_Tsunami]

Human nature is to sin...There is only one way to escape the cell...and no amount of effort on our part can accomplish it.

 

[Robban]

Human nature is to sin...There is only one way to escape the cell...and no amount of effort on our part can accomplish it.

Genesis 4:7
Said God to Kain,
"Sin is lurking at your door, (entrance to your grave),

But you should rule over it."



Re evil inclination,
Psalms 36 is a message to those who follow their evil inclination,

that tells them,
"Do not place the fear of God before you."

This is his way, he descends (to earth) and corrupts,
then goes (up to the heavenly court) and prosecutes.

 

[zippy2006]

Hello everyone I am new to the forums but not new to Christian discussions and debate. It seems as though most sin today has a motive behind it. We hear about it in court cases, we see it at work, and we see it in our relationships. It's no wonder there's so much suspicion or lack of trust in all that we do. It seems everyone has an angle. Denying it is of no use since all are guilty in one-way shape or form be it positive or negative.

Here are examples of motives that may or may not be Godly motives...

This is all true, but realistically I would caution against excessive moral introspection, whether with regard to motives or anything else. There needs to be a balance between one's knowledge of their sinfulness and one's knowledge of the hope that God's grace provides, and if we lean too much towards the former we will fall into despair. Granted, if we lean too much towards the latter we will fall into presumption, but since this thread is about peering into one's own sinfulness the relevant danger is despair.

Regarding the main topic, it is helpful to address it in a piecemeal fashion. For example, one might take the sin of lying. If one wants to understand the ways that they lie and deceive, it will be helpful to pray, think, and read about the goodness and beauty of truth and the evil of lies, while simply paying more attention to your own speech. Doing this will open the way for insight into the sin of falsity within oneself.

 

[IoanC]

God's motives are the only motives that exist. It is a satanic inclination to believe that created beings can have personal motives. Created beings are subordinate to God and obey His will. Satan thinks it's ok to have your own will and desires. Being created, satan not only is incapable of such insight and power, but commits the fundamental sins of disobedience and indiscipline.

 

[stevevw]

Hello everyone I am new to the forums but not new to Christian discussions and debate. It seems as though most sin today has a motive behind it. We hear about it in court cases, we see it at work, and we see it in our relationships. It's no wonder there's so much suspicion or lack of trust in all that we do. It seems everyone has an angle. Denying it is of no use since all are guilty in one-way shape or form be it positive or negative.

Proverbs 16:2 says, “All a person’s ways seem pure to them, but motives are weighed by the LORD.” Because the human heart is very deceitful (Jeremiah 17:9), we can easily fool ourselves about our own motives.

I'd love to get your thoughts on how you look at your own motives and how and if you tried to tackle them. I've personally been focusing most of my energy, prayers, and devotion on conquering my own motives I realize I have in my thoughts, words, and actions.

Believe me, it has been very eye-opening, to say the least. What say you?

I think this relates to how Christ pointed out that sin starts in the heart or thinking and not the action itself. This was highlighted in Matthew 5:21-23
“You have heard that it was said to the men of old, ‘YOU SHALL NOT MURDER,’ and ‘Whoever murders shall be guilty before the court.’ But I say to you that everyone who continues to be angry with his brother or harbors malice against him shall be guilty before the court.

Holding deep seated anger and resentment against others or the world can skew our thinking and influence our behaviour. The same with all deadly sins like pride, greed, lust, gluttony and sloath. If your angry at the world or someone then your motivated by anger and will ened up in situations that lead to behaving angrily. The same with greed. If becoming rich or gaining material things for yourself is the motivation then you will behave in a way that puts money and things before people.

I think primarily its about overcoming 'self' and becoming more Christ like. As Paul said our carnal selves seems to get in the way and take over causing us to seek selfish motives based on pleasing ourselves and what we think is good. We have to break the chains on our sinful nature and direct our motives to pleasing God and not ourselves.

So in that sense I think we have to check our motives. If we have a tendency to think of self first then we can decieve ourselves sometimes with good intentions that may be masking a deeper reason and motive. I guess thats where the 2nd greatest law comes in that "we should do to others what we would want done to ourselves".

This is hard to do as it takes self out of the picture which is our default motive of our sinful nature and motivates us to elevate others above ourself. So it goes against the grain. I guess thats why its the 2nd greatest commandment.

 

[Soul_Tsunami]

This is all true, but realistically I would caution against excessive moral introspection, whether with regard to motives or anything else. There needs to be a balance between one's knowledge of their sinfulness and one's knowledge of the hope that God's grace provides, and if we lean too much towards the former we will fall into despair. Granted, if we lean too much towards the latter we will fall into presumption, but since this thread is about peering into one's own sinfulness the relevant danger is despair.

Regarding the main topic, it is helpful to address it in a piecemeal fashion. For example, one might take the sin of lying. If one wants to understand the ways that they lie and deceive, it will be helpful to pray, think, and read about the goodness and beauty of truth and the evil of lies, while simply paying more attention to your own speech. Doing this will open the way for insight into the sin of falsity within oneself.

You're basically agreeing with the process..."Examine your motives". By closely examining our motives in our thoughts, words and actions, our prayers to God become much more specific allowing God to work in our lives more powerfully. This is part of Seeking the Kingdom of God "First".

Even though this passage is focused on communion, examining our motives is an expectation of God.

1 Corinthians 11:28-34

King James Version
​

28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
33 Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another.
34 And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come.

Today's Challenge: Today, really focus on the motives of your thoughts, words, and actions. Let us know what effect this has on your relationship with God.

Zippy thanks for your input...Let me know what you think.