The Reality of Hell

[JGL53]

Wondering if some people would want there to be a hell just for this? I get sad when I say this and no one acknowledges it.

Once a fantasy scenario is created then anything goes. No modification is unreasonable.

A good example is South Park's version of hell.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Once a fantasy scenario is created then anything goes. No modification is unreasonable.

A good example is South Park's version of hell.

I find its version of Heaven and god more humorous

 

[Received]

In previous articles we tried presenting a more spiritual picture of heaven, minus the harps, angel wings and fluffy clouds. This begs the question, could the reality of hell also be different than what many of us grew up with? The classic imagery of fire and brimstone appeals to our bodily senses but is that the reality or is it just a flesh oriented deterrent? There are many who will reject the non literal understanding of hell but for centuries now, the notion of hell being a physical place of fiery torment has been questioned. If heavenly bliss is a spiritual state of existence in sync with God, why could hell not be the exact opposite; a spiritual state of existence against God rather than a place of fire and brimstone? But if hell isn't a place of fire, why does the Bible describe it that way?

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The Reality of Hell - Yahoo Voices - voices.yahoo.com

According to the universalists, fire is a good symbol because fire purifies. 1 Corinthians 3:

According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it. For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.​

 

[babylonisfalling]

Sounds very much like you're describing hell as a place of purification rather than a place of eternal suffering???

According to the universalists, fire is a good symbol because fire purifies. 1 Corinthians 3:

According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it. For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.​

 

[Received]

Sounds like Paul is, rather.

 

[juvenissun]

Thanks for proving my point. Those christians intent on believing in eternal punishment in never-ending time will interpret the clear meaning of words away to get their way.

Perish means death. Eternal life means eternal life. The opposite of eternal life is eternal death, not eternal punishment.

But if you want hell then you can have it. Apparently the thought of it makes you happy and you will never give it up. The bible WILL say what you wish it to.

OK.

And have a nice day.

Death is still a life. Eternal death is eternally alive.
Ha ha... never mind. You won't get it.

 

[JGL53]

Death is still a life. Eternal death is eternally alive.
Ha ha... never mind. You won't get it.

You are using these words in a special way. Because you are special.

So, yeah, I "get it".

lol.

 

[babylonisfalling]

Sounds like Paul is, rather.

Paul isn't talking about hell. There are some Catholics who think that's purgatory, but nobody thinks it's hell

 

[Received]

I'm talking about fire. You asked about fire in Hell. I'm pointing out how according to scripture fire can be purifying.

 

[dumpsterdiver45]

"It is the nature of God, so terribly pure that it destroys all that is not pure as fire, which demands like purity in our worship. He will have purity. It is not that the fire will burn us if we do not worship thus; but that the fire will burn us until we worship thus; yea, will go on burning within us after all that is foreign to it has yielded to its force, no longer with pain and consuming, but as the highest consciousness of life, the presence of God."
George MacDonald

According to the universalists, fire is a good symbol because fire purifies. 1 Corinthians 3:
According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it. For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

Bingo, and bingo. The Bible is structured in multiple metaphors leading to overarching allegorical truth, which is why the church and its literal-based interpretive methods are stuck in the little truths without ever reaching the higher ones.

Even a quick read of the gospels shows that harsh literalism has always been the bane of religious man. Simply put, the relationship between absolute Truth and fragmented falsity in human spirit creates that experience in the whole person that is "hell". In this context, the LOF is simply the immediate presence of God to the falsified human not clothed in the shield of Christ's imputed righteousness...Daniel's friends walking in Nebuchadnezzar's furnace is the type. There is no "hellfire" when the false has been eliminated; truth on Truth relationship is pure union and harmony. All the contradistinctions in the Bible--light/darkness, good/evil, righteousness/unrighteousness, etc. are simply effects and descriptions of true/false.

 

[Received]

Gmac is the bomb!

 

[babylonisfalling]

babylonisfalling

In my estimation, the whole 'fire and brimstone' trope was originally lifted from the very end of the Book of Isaiah. There it is used as a hyperbolic expression of punishment upon the 'disobedient,' but it does not seem to imply an eternal place of torment.

This same trope was later used by Jesus, and the Gospel writer(s) relate that Jesus utilized the trope borrowed from Isaiah in conjunction with the Greek idea of Gehenna. But that in itself doesn't seem to indicate the transformation from a simple idea of 'destruction' to that of 'eternal torment' in fire.

It seems from looking at the historical development of the trope above through Tertullian, Origin, and Cyprian, and others during the first few hundred years of Christianity, the fire and brimstone trope took on a more solidified structure, being interpreted as an eternal hellfire.

Whether 'Hell' is a place of eternal torture--or not--the point to keep in mind is that the penalty is permanent either way.

Hellfire....I don't know...have my doubts.
A place of suffering....yes, definitely.
Permanent...yes.
I surprised though, getting lots of responses that suggest people think it's a type of purification place.

 

[babylonisfalling]

Bingo, and bingo. The Bible is structured in multiple metaphors leading to overarching allegorical truth, which is why the church and its literal-based interpretive methods are stuck in the little truths without ever reaching the higher ones.

Even a quick read of the gospels shows that harsh literalism has always been the bane of religious man. Simply put, the relationship between absolute Truth and fragmented falsity in human spirit creates that experience in the whole person that is "hell". In this context, the LOF is simply the immediate presence of God to the falsified human not clothed in the shield of Christ's imputed righteousness...Daniel's friends walking in Nebuchadnezzar's furnace is the type. There is no "hellfire" when the false has been eliminated; truth on Truth relationship is pure union and harmony. All the contradistinctions in the Bible--light/darkness, good/evil, righteousness/unrighteousness, etc. are simply effects and descriptions of true/false.

Then the condemned will spend eternity with God, in a state of suffering?

 

[Blue Box]

Isn't it strange that god would create a world that he knew beforehand would become corrupt, a supposedly perfect, omniscient being would do this, and then punish his creation for their imperfection, having already allegedly wiped them out with a flood once already.

 

[Silent Ocean]

In previous articles we tried presenting a more spiritual picture of heaven, minus the harps, angel wings and fluffy clouds. This begs the question, could the reality of hell also be different than what many of us grew up with? The classic imagery of fire and brimstone appeals to our bodily senses but is that the reality or is it just a flesh oriented deterrent? There are many who will reject the non literal understanding of hell but for centuries now, the notion of hell being a physical place of fiery torment has been questioned. If heavenly bliss is a spiritual state of existence in sync with God, why could hell not be the exact opposite; a spiritual state of existence against God rather than a place of fire and brimstone? But if hell isn't a place of fire, why does the Bible describe it that way?

lol Ok. I will tell you how hell is described in my religion. Hell has types/different names: Saqar, Jaheem, Alhutama, Sae'er, Sejeen, Haweya, and Alnar. So even the people of hell won't be equal, meaning each will be in a hell that befits his sins (unlike their saying in movies, they may not meet each other in hell after all Lol). Also, the torment of sinners differs, each will meet a torment that fits the kind of sin he did. They do not die or live there. They also eat food from a tree named Zaqoom. A tree that grows in Aljaheem, and people of hell will be tempted by it. It is the food of the Atheem (the sinner who enters hell). As a turbid oil, it boils in the stomach, boils like lava. Its pollens are like the heads of devils. They, the people of Hell, will eat it untill their stomach is full of it (as a tormant ofc). Their food is thorny plant that doesn't recover hunger. Also, in my religion, the hell speaks; it's a being. When it is asked if it is full, it replies, "is there more?" It's wild fire is refered to as exhalation and enrage. In Quran, there is a dialogue between people of hell and heaven, as people of Heaven call upon people of Hell, telling them that they found what their God promised them, but did they (people of Hell) found what God promised them? So they reply with 'yes.' and afterward, one of the people of Heaven call and curse the Hellians (I will call them Hellians it is easier), whom he describes as wrongful ones that avoid the path of God and want it twisted (want to follow their desires not God's law) and disbelieve in the hereafter. People of Hell are also asked by Angels of Hell (that are on charge of hell), "why are you in Saqar?" Then the Hellians reply, "we were not of the prayers, nor did we feed the poor, and we used to argue with those who argue [argue about things-religious things- they don't know]*, and we used to disbelieve in the Judgement Day (refer to it as a lie).

*This is my understanding of the original: و كنا نخوضوا مع الخائضين
Thanks for reading

-This reply is intended to be informative only.
-I will ignore any argumentative, offensive, or convincing comments (religion vs.religion comment 'right vs. wrong' style).

 

[dumpsterdiver45]

Then the condemned will spend eternity with God, in a state of suffering?

No. Dross (all things false) is burned off in the fire. This is the first of the two steps of Christianity...DEATH. Metaphoric bringing forth of "new offspring" (do online Bible search) represents the second step, RESURRECTION (new birth). Christ underwent death and rebirth as a prefiguring or type of salvation performed universally in every soul--by destruction of bad stuff in soul (tares, sheep, etc.) by Godly fire and rebirth (seed sown on good ground brings forth 30-100 fold) of new good stuff.

When the bad stuff's gone, there's no longer any enmity against God. No reason to punish. The spirit restored to truth is wholly compatible with Truth. The condemning literalist love for God's wrath is a corruption.

 

[Received]

What he said.

 

[babylonisfalling]

No. Dross (all things false) is burned off in the fire. This is the first of the two steps of Christianity...DEATH. Metaphoric bringing forth of "new offspring" (do online Bible search) represents the second step, RESURRECTION (new birth). Christ underwent death and rebirth as a prefiguring or type of salvation performed universally in every soul--by destruction of bad stuff in soul (tares, sheep, etc.) by Godly fire and rebirth (seed sown on good ground brings forth 30-100 fold) of new good stuff.

When the bad stuff's gone, there's no longer any enmity against God. No reason to punish. The spirit restored to truth is wholly compatible with Truth. The condemning literalist love for God's wrath is a corruption.

Then hell is just a temporary place of purification?
Nothing eternal about it?

 

[Received]

According to the universalists, yup.

 

[dumpsterdiver45]

Then hell is just a temporary place of purification?
Nothing eternal about it?

Hell is an experience, not a place. It's the death of the false parts of human spirit which are then reborn to a true state. The spirit made wholly true is restoration to perfection. It's regeneration. Regeneration is hell. Believers experience it progressively and fragmentally in time to a state of saving faith; unbelievers experience it in an 'all at once' purification because they denied conformity with Truth in life. Same fire, same regeneration, same salvation, just different modes. The first is way easier.