The Reality of Hell

[babylonisfalling]

Well, when it's part of his own story about Hell, he kind of is.

His story has no authority. From what I've read it's just a revenge fantasy because he was mad at the Church

 

[ThinkForYourself]

Hell is: a place of restraint, a place of destruction, and a place of punishment. The demons will be restrained and punished. Humans will be destroyed.

What an all loving father.

 

[babylonisfalling]

Hell is an experience, not a place. It's the death of the false parts of human spirit which are then reborn to a true state. The spirit made wholly true is restoration to perfection. It's regeneration. Regeneration is hell. Believers experience it progressively and fragmentally in time to a state of saving faith; unbelievers experience it in an 'all at once' purification because they denied conformity with Truth in life. Same fire, same regeneration, same salvation, just different modes. The first is way easier.

So the experience of hell is temporary?

 

[PsychoSarah]

So the experience of hell is temporary?

From what he is saying, sounds more like nonbelievers end up getting reborn over and over again.

 

[babylonisfalling]

From what he is saying, sounds more like nonbelievers end up getting reborn over and over again.

I don't think so...but he's not really answering the question either

 

[PsychoSarah]

I don't think so...but he's not really answering the question either

Answered it vaguely, for sure.

 

[dumpsterdiver45]

So the experience of hell is temporary?

Yes. Hell is the experience (from a human perspective) of the destruction of all things false in human spirit by absolute Truth. God inspired His writers to portray hell as destruction mainly by fire, but also somewhat less often by sword, hail plague and wind. Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire--the second death--in Rev 20, and Rev 21:8 describes in symbolic language a partial list of effects brought forth in human behavior by a single cause, the false: "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

The lake of Fire is God's pure Truth. All things false and the evils which the false produces will be destroyed by Godly fire. The same Fire of truth is used in time to sanctify those who hear the call of Christ (Jn 17:17 & 19) to a state of saving faith. Godly fire, because it only burns against and destroys the false, is the first step of regeneration (death). Restoration to a true state (resurrection or rebirth) is the second step. Same fire purifies believers in time as sinners 'all at once' without mercy (Ezek 7:4, 9:10, Jer 11:11) in LOF, God's pure Truth essence most likely as they depart physical life.

The experience of hell is temporary because--as noted earlier--when all things false are destroyed from the essence of each human and everyone is restored to a wholly true state, there no longer exists enmity against God. The math is simple, there are only two possible qualities in spiritual realm: true or false. All goods derive from the true, all evils from the false. Unbelief, hatred, chaos, death, jealousy, etc. etc. are part of the family of evils produced by a single property in essence, falsity. God's Truth is everlasting, there will always be enmity between true and false. Daniel's friends walking unscathed in Nebuchadnezzar's furnace is the type of restoration of the person to a true state, where his true and perfect spiritual body experiences compatibility with Fire/Truth. Where there's nothing false, nothing is burned up.

Originally Posted by PsychoSarah View Post
From what he is saying, sounds more like nonbelievers end up getting reborn over and over again.
I don't think so...but he's not really answering the question either

I have no idea where PSarah gets the over and over again thing, and not sure what you're looking for....I thought I gave an adequate answer each time you asked a question. What's unclear?

 

[PsychoSarah]

I guess maybe you are just wording it in a way I am not getting? It happens to me on occasion, certain ways people word things can throw me off.

 

[Blue Box]

I guess maybe you are just wording it in a way I am not getting? It happens to me on occasion, certain ways people word things can throw me off.

You find a lot of that on forums.

 

[babylonisfalling]

There's nothing in the Bible about hell being temporary.

 

[Mediaeval]

There's nothing in the Bible about hell being temporary.

There are verses about punishment not as mere retribution but as intended to separate the sinner from his sin, about God's anger being temporary, and about all men eventually being saved. Against this backdrop, it is not a stretch to conclude that hell is temporary.

 

[babylonisfalling]

There are verses about punishment not as mere retribution but as intended to separate the sinner from his sin, about God's anger being temporary, and about all men eventually being saved. Against this backdrop, it is not a stretch to conclude that hell is temporary.

None of those verses are about hell though.

 

[Noxot]

hell can not be a final condition unless God himself intended something other than love as his main objective. for instance if the pure heart of God was polluted with the impure heart of man and his idea of what "justice" is then a man would see God as what he believes God to be - a god of corrupted justice that often unjustly punishes people just like so many human beings do to others. and this idea insane humanity called "true justice"

on the other hand love says that true justice is rooted in the depths of love and whos nourishment and end is love. justice is a branch of the tree of love.

justice is not the tree and love is not a tiny branch of justice. if that was the case humanity would see justice as Gods main attribute and love as secondary and conditional.

 

[babylonisfalling]

hell can not be a final condition unless God himself intended something other than love as his main objective. for instance if the pure heart of God was polluted with the impure heart of man and his idea of what "justice" is then a man would see God as what he believes God to be - a god of corrupted justice that often unjustly punishes people just like so many human beings do to others. and this idea insane humanity called "true justice"

on the other hand love says that true justice is rooted in the depths of love and whos nourishment and end is love. justice is a branch of the tree of love.

justice is not the tree and love is not a tiny branch of justice. if that was the case humanity would see justice as Gods main attribute and love as secondary and conditional.

Except....the pure heart of God has not been polluted with anything. That's a false premise

 

[Noxot]

Except....the pure heart of God has not been polluted with anything. That's a false premise

indeed Gods heart is pure but mans vision of God was good polluted with evil and this is why they worship the lamb that speaks like a dragon. this abomination of desolation in the temple is the mark of the beast inside the works and minds of humanity. the funny thing is that most christians are unwilling to call their idea of God evil because they are scared that they will sin against God and be punished and so they in their weakness and cowardice are more likely to bow the knee to a false image of God than to say "hey wait a sec! my flesh is distorting the pure image of God and I am worshiping the beast and antichrist"

there are so many spiritual baby Christians out there that have almost zero training in the discernment of good and evil... thus the most popular views of God, which are covered in filth to some degree, are still to this day proclaimed as the deep spiritual depths and wisdom of God when they are in fact only symbols and parables that have been misunderstood more than they have been grasped. a tragedy of this world is that popularity wins over truth very often and thus the large herd of sheep trample down and murder those who would proclaim a better vision of God that they saw in heaven. Jesus Christ to this day is being betrayed, spit upon, and murdered.

Father forgiven them for they know not what they do!

 

[dumpsterdiver45]

There's nothing in the Bible about hell being temporary.

I believe in the eternalness of hell. We are apparently still talking past one another.....

Hell is an experience. Hell is--from the human perspective--the affliction the whole person undergoes or experiences as elemental falsity--think of it as tiny "bits" of false value--are destroyed by the "fire" of God's pure Truth essence. Once all the bad stuff is 'burned off' and replaced with new offspring (truth-value), human spirit is restored to a wholly true state, equal to that of Adam in the garden. Another word for true is perfect.

Because God's essence (Truth) is eternal, the hell of His essence in juxtaposition to anything false is also eternal. You may be in the traditional rut of thinking of hell as a place. Godly Fire is a metaphor for purification--this is actually quite easy to glean from a study of Godly fire in the Bible. The literal--which has Christianity in its icy grip (yes, I'm taking a bit of creative license here)--doesn't allow the Bible to be read as God intended, which requires the integration and union of metaphor with literal to arrive at the allegorical meaning, by which Godly fire is the common element used in 1) sanctification of the believer to a state of faith, 2) maintaining that faith in those who backslide, and, 3) used in the final terrible Lake of Truth (Fire) in an all-at-once purification of unbelievers who refused to conform to faith in time.

Thus, from a cosmic point of view, the potential for hell is eternal. The decree that all things false will be destroyed is an eternal decree because God's truth is an eternal reality. The actualization of hell as an experience of spiritual beings is a purification because purification is the only method of the application of hell which does not violate God's perfection. God promises in Scripture to return everything to an "all in all" state, or a state of complete truth where all enmity (falseness) is gone, its smoke going away forever and ever from the stain humanity imposed on it.

Hopefully this makes my position more clear.

 

[babylonisfalling]

indeed Gods heart is pure but mans vision of God was good polluted with evil and this is why they worship the lamb that speaks like a dragon. this abomination of desolation in the temple is the mark of the beast inside the works and minds of humanity. the funny thing is that most christians are unwilling to call their idea of God evil because they are scared that they will sin against God and be punished and so they in their weakness and cowardice are more likely to bow the knee to a false image of God than to say "hey wait a sec! my flesh is distorting the pure image of God and I am worshiping the beast and antichrist"

there are so many spiritual baby Christians out there that have almost zero training in the discernment of good and evil... thus the most popular views of God, which are covered in filth to some degree, are still to this day proclaimed as the deep spiritual depths and wisdom of God when they are in fact only symbols and parables that have been misunderstood more than they have been grasped. a tragedy of this world is that popularity wins over truth very often and thus the large herd of sheep trample down and murder those who would proclaim a better vision of God that they saw in heaven. Jesus Christ to this day is being betrayed, spit upon, and murdered.

Father forgiven them for they know not what they do!

Do you call your own idea of God evil?

 

[Noxot]

Do you call your own idea of God evil?

nope. why would I follow an evil God?

 

[babylonisfalling]

nope. why would I follow an evil God?

well, if don't call your idea of God evil then you're part of the same group you seem to be complaining of

the funny thing is that most christians are unwilling to call their idea of God evil because they are scared that they will sin against God and be punished and so they in their weakness and cowardice are more likely to bow the knee to a false image of God than to say "hey wait a sec! my flesh is distorting the pure image of God and I am worshiping the beast and antichrist"

 

[Received]