The real purpose of water baptism in the NT

[Wordkeeper]

Not according to the Bible. And not according to your earlier post, either.

This is the idea:
Psalms 106
10He delivered them from the power of their foe;

redeeming them from the power of their enemy.

11The water overwhelmed their enemies,

so that not one of them survived.d

12Then they believed his word

and sung his praise.

Let me know my lack. I'll try to rephrase.

 

[eleos1954]

The teaching is highly nuanced and we can lose sight of the central theme very easily if we are not careful.


The benefits of baptism is access to edification from God is unlocked :


1 Corinthians 10

3and all ate the same spiritual food; 4and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.



Baptism isn't required to receive the benefits of baptism. Abraham was baptized, and he was edified by seeing God's great work in delivering him from Abhimelec and Pharaoh. His faith was sufficiently strong for God to confirm his election, by the time he was asked to sacrifice Isaac.


Israel was baptized, and she was edified by seeing God's great work in delivering him from Pharaoh. God continued to edify Israel, by creating evil, calamities and then delivering. But it off a million Israelites over twenty, only Joshua benefited from the building up:


1 Corinthians 10

5Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.


Psalms 106

13But they quickly forgot his deeds


and did not wait for his counsel.


14They were overwhelmed with craving in the wilderness,


so God tested them in the wasteland.


15God granted them their request,


but sent leanness into their lives.


John began baptising because it was revealed to him that the Rock was being given. His baptism enabled people to recognise the Messiah, because it modeled the drinking from the Rock theme:


John 1

19This was John’s testimony when the Jewish leadersp sent priests and descendants of Levi to him from Jerusalem to ask him, “Who are you?”


20He spoke openly and, remaining true to himself,q admitted, “I am not the Messiah.”r


21So they asked him, “Well then, are you Elijah?”


Johns said, “I am not.”


“Are you the Prophet?”


He answered, “No.”


22“Who are you?” they asked him. “We must give an answer to those who sent us. What do you say about yourself?”


23He replied, “I am


‘…a voice crying out in the wilderness,


“Prepare the Lord’st highway,”’u


as the prophet Isaiah said.”


24Now those menv had been sent from the Pharisees. 25They asked him, “Why, then, are you baptizing if you are not the Messiah,w or Elijah, or the Prophet?”


26John answered them, “I am baptizing withx water, but among you stands a man whom you do not know, 27the one who is coming after me, whose sandal straps I am not worthy to untie.”sandal straps I am not worthy to untie.” 28This happened in Bethanyy on the other sidez of the Jordan, where John was baptizing.


29The next day, Johnaa saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! 30This is the one about whom I said, ‘After me comes a man who ranks above me, because he existed before me.’ 31I didn’t recognize him, but I came baptizing withbb water so that he might be revealed to Israel.”


32John also testified, “I saw the Spirit coming down from heaven like a dove, and it remained on him. 33I didn’t recognize him, but the one who sent me to baptize withcc water told me, ‘The person on whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining is the one who baptizes withdd the Holy Spirit.’ 34I have seen this and have testified that this is the Sonee of God.”


Although Abraham and Israel were not physically baptized, had actually experienced spiritual baptism, they nevertheless received edification since they qualified for it. They were unhappy with Egypt :



Hebrews 11

13All these people died having faith. They did not receive the things that were promised, yet they saw them in the distant future and welcomed them, acknowledging that they were strangers and foreigners on earth. 14For people who say such things make it clear that they are looking for a country of their own. 15If they had been thinking about what they had left behind, they would have had an opportunity to go back. 16Instead, they were longing for a better country, that is, a heavenly one. That is why God is not ashamed to be called their God, because he has prepared a city for them.


1 Peter 2

11Beloved, I urge you, as foreigners and exiles, to abstain from the desires of the flesh, which war against your soul.


So if a person is unhappy, feels alienated by the ways of the world, and cries out to God, God will unlock access to edification.


Physical baptism was introduced to clarify what the process was about.

reply was in the context of John 1:31 as stated in the OP

 

[Wordkeeper]

reply was in the context of John 1:31 as stated in the OP

Is baptism with water into the Holy Spirit and fire necessary today? If so, why? If not, why?

 

[Not David]

Is baptism with water into the Holy Spirit and fire necessary today? If so, why? If not, why?

Do you think dogma evolves?

 

[Wordkeeper]

Do you think dogma evolves?

In what context?

 

[Not David]

In what context?

That Jesus and the Apostles say one thing but then we do another thing.

 

[ebedmelech]

This subject has been debated throughout the years and will continue to be.

John 1:31 NLT, John explained the purpose of him baptizing the Jews with water.

I did not recognize him as the Messiah, but I have been baptizing with water so that he might be revealed to Israel.”

This is a "baptism of repentance" which John did.

Can I conclude that, in the 4 Gospels as well as early Acts, water baptism was required for the Jews to be saved under the gospel of the kingdom?

Water baptism never saves anyone. It identifies the believer with the death, burial, and resurrection with Christ, as Romans 6:3-7 says.

But now, Gentiles are saved by faith only, under the gospel of grace? Water baptism is no longer required for anything?

No one has ever been saved by anything but grace, whether Jew or Gentile. This may be hard for you to grasp (I really don't know), but ViaCrucis post above lays it out pretty good for you.

Work your way through this, and the Lord give you understanding

 

[eleos1954]

Is baptism with water into the Holy Spirit and fire necessary today? If so, why? If not, why?

This is kindish getting off topic as the OP was centered around some specific questions ... however you could open a new topic in this regard

 

[Wordkeeper]

That Jesus and the Apostles say one thing but then we do another thing.

Like what??

 

[Monk Brendan]

John 1:31 NLT, John explained the purpose of him baptizing the Jews with water.

I did not recognize him as the Messiah, but I have been baptizing with water so that he might be revealed to Israel.”

Can I conclude that, in the 4 Gospels as well as early Acts, water baptism was required for the Jews to be saved under the gospel of the kingdom?

But now, Gentiles are saved by faith only, under the gospel of grace? Water baptism is no longer required for anything?

Jesus said to baptize. Isn't that sufficient?

The first Gentile converts were baptized.

Baptism would be a work if you baptized yourself, but you don't, do you? Rather, you receive baptism at the hands of anoither.

 

[Wordkeeper]

This is kindish getting off topic as the OP was centered around some specific questions ... however you could open a new topic in this regard

Ok.

Please answer here:

Is water baptism needed today?

 

[Not David]

Like what??

Water baptism is necessary and salvific, and others say it is not.

 

[DamianWarS]

John 1:31 NLT, John explained the purpose of him baptizing the Jews with water.

I did not recognize him as the Messiah, but I have been baptizing with water so that he might be revealed to Israel.”

Can I conclude that, in the 4 Gospels as well as early Acts, water baptism was required for the Jews to be saved under the gospel of the kingdom?

But now, Gentiles are saved by faith only, under the gospel of grace? Water baptism is no longer required for anything?

No, read Act 19

 

[Gideons300]

I am pretty sure I will not be in the majority here with my point of view. Nothing new there, lol.

Here is my take. God is not interested in religious rituals for the sake of being religious, or even a critical step in our salvation. The thief on the cross is our poster boy for that, lol. Everything He asks of us, communion, baptism, prayer, they mean something.

Without a deeper meaning to the ritual to make it not a ritual at all, but a truth to be meditated on and remembered... a sort of touchstone to keep us centered and focused, making it harder to slip.... we risk having head knowledge replace living faith whereby we commune with our God.

The problem is, human nature loves rituals for their own sake, don't we? How often it is that the meaning slips away, and we are left with the husk and have lost the grain of TRUTH, and yet are not even aware of our loss.

Baptism is one of those rituals that leads the way in my book, not because we have forgotten what it means, but because we have been blinded to what it actually means to begin with. Whoa. Ouch, huh?

The truth of baptism is that it reminds us in the most basic of ways what has transpired at our salvation. When we are immersed, we are displaying our agreement with God that when Jesus died, so DID we.... our old nature is dead. It does not need to be disciplined. It does not need to be chastened or tied up. It does not need to be denied. It needs to be PUT OFF. RECKONED DEAD. By faith.

And when we come out from that water, we are agreeing with God that we are new creatures, with brand new hearts. We have to grow in our new man, but here is the thing. We NEVER grow from old man to new man.

We are told to yield ourselves to Jesus, right? But we have missed the HOW part. How then? As those who are alive from the dead! Glory!

How many there are..... multitudes.... who are currently trying desperately to "be good" and cease from sins that they cannot seem to escape from. And their victories are always overtaken by defeat.

How man more... multitudes of multitudes.... who have been fed the lie that sin no longer matters, that holiness is impossible and that those who seek it are trying to work for their salvation. And God weeps.

And why? Why is His bride in such a confused, misled, passionless, going-through-the-motions religious mess? Is it not because we have missed the touchstone truth that baptism reveals to us?

It is fixable, but the fix will not be in until we admit our failure to align ourselves with our God and walk in agreement with Him.

Want another one? A nice ritualized saying popular with the "deeper" Christians, lol.

BORN AGAIN.

Are you noticing a trend here? Hmmmmm.

Blessings,

Gideon

P.s. For those convicted by this post, and would ask if it would be alright to be baptized again, now that they know the truth that actually sets free? Absolutely! But know this. I would rather believe the truth without the ritual than to do the ritual and not believe it.

 

[Guojing]

Faith and grace are nothing new. The people of the OT were/are saved the same way we are .... through Christ ... their faith in the promise of the Messiah to come. Baptism was not required then and is not required now to receive salvation.

1 Peter 3:18 (RSV) For Christ also died for sins once for all (all sinners, past, present & future), the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit;

By baptism (Gentile and Jew alike) we confess our faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and testify of our death to sin and of our purpose to walk in newness of life. Thus we acknowledge Christ as Lord and Saviour, become His people, and are received as members by His church (believers in Christ). Baptism is a symbol of our union with Christ, the forgiveness of our sins, and our reception of the Holy Spirit. It is by immersion in water and is contingent on an affirmation of faith in Jesus and evidence of repentance of sin. It follows instruction in the Holy Scriptures and acceptance of their teachings. (Matt. 28:19, 20; Acts 2:38; 16:30-33; 22:16; Rom. 6:1-6; Gal. 3:27; Col. 2:12, 13.)

During John's days, if a Jew declined to be baptized by John and choose to say things like "I am saved by grace thru faith in Jesus", how do you think John would have respond to him?

 

[Guojing]

No, read Act 19

When you say no, which question of mine are you addressing?

 

[Guojing]

You are confusing John's Baptism with Christian Baptism. And you are making the error that Jesus' Gospel of the kingdom is another Gospel than the Gospel of our salvation. There's only one Gospel, it's the Gospel which our Lord Jesus came teaching and preaching, and it's the one the Apostles went out into the world to proclaim: the Gospel of the kingdom of God, of God's salvation for the world through the King Messiah who came, Jesus, by His life, death, and resurrection through which there is peace with God, victory over sin and death, and life everlasting.

John's Baptism was a "baptism of repentance", a call to repentance in the anticipation of the coming of the Messiah. With Jesus going into the river with John to receive John's baptism, Jesus "fulfilled all righteousness", inaugurating His messianic ministry.

Christian Baptism isn't about repentance in preparation for the Messiah's coming, because Messiah has come, His name is Jesus. This Baptism is by the name and authority of Jesus the Messiah, "Go and make disciples of all nations baptizing them" He said. This Baptism is done "in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit" because this Baptism is the Sacrament of God by which we are made partakers of the life of God through new birth by God's grace. For here we receive the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38), new birth from God (John 3:5, Titus 3:5), having been washed in the water with the word (Ephesians 5:26), for having been united and clothed with Jesus Christ (Galatians 3:27) we are also united to His death (Romans 6:5), having been buried with Him we are raised together with Him (Colossians 2:12); we have therefore received the grace of adoption as sons and daughters of God; joined to Jesus as joint-heirs, indwelt with the Holy Spirit, under the Fatherhood of God. Therefore we have become heirs of God, received the promises of God: Christ has died once and for all and for the forgiveness of sins, and we are the benefactors of Christ's precious and glorious work, so that our sins are truly forgiven, we have received His righteousness as pure gift, and have the hope and promise of eternal life, resurrection of the body, that glorious life of the Age to Come which is all ours through and in Christ. That is the meaning and significance of Christian Baptism. For Jew and Gentile, for there is no difference in Christ who has taken the two and made one new People in Himself.

-CryptoLutheran

Thought by now it is well understood that the 12 disciples did not understand the Gospel of the Death Burial and Resurrection of Jesus during Matt-John.

So what Gospel do you think they were preaching then?

 

[Guojing]

Baptism saves because Jesus saves. Baptism is necessary for salvation.

Would you consider water baptism to be a work and not part of faith?

 

[Guojing]

Jesus said to baptize. Isn't that sufficient?

The first Gentile converts were baptized.

Baptism would be a work if you baptized yourself, but you don't, do you? Rather, you receive baptism at the hands of anoither.

But Jesus said he was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel. Was he speaking any instructions to us Gentiles during Matt-John?

 

[prodromos]

But Jesus said he was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel. Was he speaking any instructions to us Gentiles during Matt-John?

The Gospels were written after the fact for the benefit of ALL Christians, whether they be Jewish or Gentile.