The Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist

[chestertonrules]

Wrong. We deny the monophysite doctrine of transubstantiation.

You don't even know what a monophysite is, obviously.

 

[chestertonrules]

The early Christians strongly denied that they were eating and drinking the actual, real, human flesh and blood of Jesus.

.

False.

"For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh." Justin Martyr, First Apology, 66 (c. A.D. 110-165).


"[T]he bread over which thanks have been given is the body of their Lord, and the cup His blood..." Irenaeus, Against Heresies, IV:18,4 (c. A.D. 200).
"He acknowledged the cup (which is a part of the creation) as his own blood, from which he bedews our blood; and the bread (also a part of creation) he affirmed to be his own body, from which he gives increase to our bodies." Irenaeus, Against Heresies, V:2,2 (c. A.D. 200).

"They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again." Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to Smyrnaeans, 7,1 (c. A.D. 110).

 

[chestertonrules]

This new creation is spiritual. Their mind changes. The bread is just physical. It doesn't have a spirit.

You'll see a change when the body, just like the spirit, will become something new. Then you'll see that the body changes in appearance.

You don't become a new creation bodily or physically, but spiritually, in the mind. The mind doesn't have a form or appearance, so what change are you expecting to see? But when the body changes in the manner of the spirit then, since the body can be seen (the spirit cannot) then you'll see the changes in appearance. What changes we see we see in the fruits.

The spirit, which is the one recreated at the moment and not the body, is like the wind. You cannot see it but you see it's actions and consequences. If the wind would change, would you see the change? No. You would feel the change or at least see what it does to realize it changes. So is with the spirit. It is recreated, but it cannot be seen, so what changes are you expecting to see? Certainly not of appearance since obviously it cannot be seen. You'll see changes in it's fruits.

But the body can be seen and when it will become new then you'll see a big change in its appearance. I hope I explained it well. Because we don't become new creations physically, but spiritually. Our spirits cannot be seen. Bread doesn't have a spirit. So it cannot be changed spiritually.

The Eucharist can be changed by the power of God. That's what Jesus told us, and that is what his apostles taught.

1 Cor10 16Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ?


1 Cor 11 27Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. 29For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

You don't even know what a monophysite is, obviously.

Hmmm....me neither

http://www.eliyah.com/lexicon.html

Search Wikipedia Encyclopedia:

Monophysitism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Monophysitism (from the Greek monos meaning 'one, alone' and physis meaning 'nature'), or Monophysiticism, is the Christological position that Christ has only one nature, his humanity being absorbed by his Deity, as opposed to the Chalcedonian position which holds that Christ maintains two natures, one divine and one human. A brief definition of Monophysitist Christology can be given as: "Jesus Christ, who is identical with the Son, is one person and one hypostas in one nature: divine-human."[1]

 

[Standing Up]

Like the gnostics, you deny the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

The gnostics did not believe that Christ came in the flesh. That's anti-christ. I believe Jesus Christ did come in the flesh.

Eucharist is thanksgiving only. To say otherwise is Arian or polytheism, believing that there was a time when Christ was not and then exists as bread.

 

[Colin]

I see we are on the Magic Roundabout again .

 

[MamaZ]

All those washed in His blood participate with thanksgiving knowing that we can rejoice in Him.. We partake of the cup and bread of thanksgiving in rememberance of Him until He comes again and drinks anew with His Body.. Oh praise be to the one who became sin for us. All glory and praise to His name..

 

[Sargent_Pepper]

You don't even know what a monophysite is, obviously.

Yes I do.

RCism confuses and combines the two nature of Jesus in transubstantiation, thus is monophysite.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I see we are on the Magic Roundabout again .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundabout

A roundabout is a type of circular junction in which road traffic must travel in one direction around a central island. Signs usua
lly direct traffic entering the circle to slow down and give the right of way to drivers already in the circle.[1]

 

[Sargent_Pepper]

The gnostics did not believe that Christ came in the flesh. That's anti-christ. I believe Jesus Christ did come in the flesh.

Eucharist is thanksgiving only. To say otherwise is Arian or polytheism, believing that there was a time when Christ was not and then exists as bread.

Also, Jesus said of His coming again:


Matthew 24:26-28

26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

RCism says that Jesus comes again, and again, and again, and again, turning into bread all over the world, 24/7 when RCs eat the bread.

 

[Sargent_Pepper]

False.

"For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh." Justin Martyr, First Apology, 66 (c. A.D. 110-165).


"[T]he bread over which thanks have been given is the body of their Lord, and the cup His blood..." Irenaeus, Against Heresies, IV:18,4 (c. A.D. 200).
"He acknowledged the cup (which is a part of the creation) as his own blood, from which he bedews our blood; and the bread (also a part of creation) he affirmed to be his own body, from which he gives increase to our bodies." Irenaeus, Against Heresies, V:2,2 (c. A.D. 200).

"They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again." Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to Smyrnaeans, 7,1 (c. A.D. 110).

Geee, there is nothing there that says the bread and wine are changed into the actual, real, physical human flesh and blood of Jesus.


I'm afraid that you are seeing things that do not exist there.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Geee, there is nothing there that says the bread and wine are changed into the actual, real, physical human flesh and blood of Jesus.


I'm afraid that you are seeing things that do not exist there.

Can ya really blame them tho

 

[Colin]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundabout

A roundabout is a type of circular junction in which road traffic must travel in one direction around a central island. Signs usua
lly direct traffic entering the circle to slow down and give the right of way to drivers already in the circle.[1]

Can you imagine anyone on this thread giving way ? Such an occurence would truly be magical .

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Can you imagine anyone on this thread giving way ? Such an occurence would truly be magical .

With God, anything is possible

http://www.christianforums.com/t7486153/
Have any of these online discussions changed your views?

 

[Colin]

With God, anything is possible

Yes but I think Jesus forgot that there were going to be Christians around when he said that .

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Yes but I think Jesus forgot that there were going to be Christians around when he said that .

How could there be Christians around before Christ came

http://www.christianforums.com/t7490171-5/#post55449372

Young) Acts 26:28 And Agrippa said unto Paul, `in a little thou dost persuade me to become a Christian/Muslim!

 

[JacktheCatholic]

MOD HAT ON​

Opening back up.
Please remember the GT and CF rules.
PM me if you have any questions.​

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[Tzaousios]

chestertonrules, I take it you are not going to address my reply to you in post #42...

 

[Philothei]

Originally Posted by chestertonrules

God gives us free will. He won't make you follow him. This is your choice.

It is also your choice whether to accept or reject his words.
​

Oh? What happened in the intervening period between God's dealing with Balaam and the commands he issued through God the Son?

Numbers 22:20-22

20God came to Balaam at night and said to him, "If the men have come to call you, rise up and go with them; but only the word which I speak to you shall you do." 21So Balaam arose in the morning, and saddled his donkey and went with the leaders of Moab. 22But God was angry because he was going, and the angel of the LORD took his stand in the way as an adversary against him

I do not see how we can turn this into a predestination discussion though...Furthermore I cannot see the connection here either.

 

[laconicstudent]

Since Christ Himself has said, "This is My Body" who shall dare to doubt that It is His Body? -- Saint Cyril of Jerusalem