The real meaning of futurism

[Interplanner]

That's too harsh OT

 

[Old Timer]

That's too harsh OT

Only an intentional deceiver would think that perhaps..

 

[daq]

Think of how pathetic it actually is for preterists to come in here and think that they're deceiving others while they're in fact deceived themselves..

I mean the intentional ones of course..

There's still hope for the ones who are deceived.

Do you actually think that your many words here shall result in any Spirit filled believer in Christ to believe you rather than the living and powerful word of God which speaks of the Day of The Lord while even warning us against those like you who would say it is past?

As is said, you're the one who is deceived although of course you can't fathom that.

Are you an intentional deceiver or just deceived yourself?

Thank you for clarifying that your previous post was also directed at myself. By the way I am not a Preterist and I never said anything about the Day of the Lord "being past". That is nothing more than one of the many murderous tactics that you and your fellow killers practice which you clearly have learned from your father. You are surely filled with a spirit as you say and by your fruits it is clear that spirit is the spirit of the world and prince of the power of the air, (as Paul puts it). Do you not understand that you are the house Old Timer? You too should have paid heed to the warnings of Messiah where he speaks of that unclean spirit which was sent out of you when you first entered into the faithfulness of Messiah and committed yourself to his doctrines:

Luke 11:24-26 KJV
24. When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
25. And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
26. Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

And there are no exceptions to the rule:

Ephesians 2:1-3 KJV
1. And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2. Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3. Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

And because you have allowed that wicked one back into your house after he was sent forth from your midst, (the prince of the power of the air is the same he-goat from the shadows of the west which "touches not the ground", Daniel 8:5) now you have likewise seven mountains which are seven heads which are seven kings to deal with, (beware the seventh which is the Gergesenos-Girgashite, for he is especially nasty being that he is Legion) and the eighth will be of the seven. So no, in your case, absolutely not has come and gone the Day of the Lord. And when it does come upon you like a snare then all the holy ones will know whether you did indeed overcome in your hour of trial or whether you are a reprobate-castaway to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

 

[Old Timer]

Thank you for clarifying that your previous post was also directed at myself. By the way I am not a Preterist and I never said anything about the Day of the Lord "being past". That is nothing more than one of the many murderous tactics that you and your fellow killers practice which you clearly have learned from your father. You are surely filled with a spirit as you say and by your fruits it is clear that spirit is the spirit of the world and prince of the power of the air, (as Paul puts it). Do you not understand that you are the house Old Timer? You too should have paid heed to the warnings of Messiah where he speaks of that unclean spirit which was sent out of you when you first entered into the faithfulness of Messiah and committed yourself to his doctrines:

Luke 11:24-26 KJV
24. When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
25. And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
26. Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

And there are no exceptions to the rule:

Ephesians 2:1-3 KJV
1. And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2. Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3. Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

And because you have allowed that wicked one back into your house after he was sent forth from your midst, (the prince of the power of the air is the same he-goat from the shadows of the west which "touches not the ground", Daniel 8:5) now you have likewise seven mountains which are seven heads which are seven kings to deal with, (beware the seventh which is the Gergesenos-Girgashite, for he is especially nasty being that he is Legion) and the eighth will be of the seven. So no, in your case, absolutely not has come and gone the Day of the Lord. And when it does come upon you like a snare then all the holy ones will know whether you did indeed overcome in your hour of trial or whether you are a reprobate-castaway to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

Very interesting indeed.. for I do consider myself nothing but a reprobate.. completely unworthy of the least blessings in the Lord Jesus Christ..

Although if there's one thing I know.. it's that the DAY of the LORD is coming and men can't stand it.. you just said that you didn't mention it and then mentioned it as if it's only going to apply to my situation..

Clever but still only a thinly masked denial of the simple truth..

That coming Day.. the Day of the LORD.. the Day of Jesus Christ..

Say it.. go ahead.. it's realty not that difficult..

Well, in some cases it might be.

 

[Old Timer]

Anything... and once again.. A N Y T H I N G, but that coming Day...

 

[Old Timer]

which shall come as a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child..

I know...

 

[7sForDays]

Of course not. These people invade the eschatology forums for the sole purpose of denying that there is any such thing as eschatology.

Heb 2:15 Only in this way could He set free all who have lived their lives as slaves to the fear of dying.

 

[Biblewriter]

BW didn't use the categories of Judaism there, until he wanted to refuse that Heb 9:11 was already here. Hebrews is the strongest possible refutation of 2P2P, which generates futurism. It was and is taught in all the D'ism I'm familiar with.

Once again, you display your almost total lack of knowledge of your subject. Futurism does not mean, of even imply Dispensationalism. All Dispensationalists are Futurists, but not all Futurists are Dispensationalists.

 

[Biblewriter]

The last things (eschatology) is what it was to the apostles. Ie, how was the destruction of the temple one of the last things of "this" age. That is how to read the NT--what it meant originally, not what it means to BW.

The New testament teaches no such thing. That is nothing but your opinion of what it means. But oddly, it never says it, even once.

 

[daq]

Very interesting indeed.. for I do consider myself nothing but a reprobate.. completely unworthy of the least blessings in the Lord Jesus Christ..

Although if there's one thing I know.. it's that the DAY of the LORD is coming and men can't stand it.. you just said that you didn't mention it and then mentioned it as if it's only going to apply to my situation..

Clever but still only a thinly masked denial of the simple truth..

That coming Day.. the Day of the LORD.. the Day of Jesus Christ..

Say it.. go ahead.. it's realty not that difficult..

Well, in some cases it might be.

I spoke according to the Scripture which you claim to uphold.
The kingdom of heaven is like a net according to the Master whom you claim to follow:

Matthew 13:47-49 KJV
47. Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
48. Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
49. So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

See what a "castaway" is in the Scripture?
It is the worthless, rotten, rejected, throw away carcass of a fish:

2 Corinthians 13:5-6 KJV
5. Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? [GSN#0096 adikomos]
6. But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates [GSN#0096 adikomos].

Original Strong's Ref. #96
Romanized adokimos
Pronounced ad-ok'-ee-mos
from GSN0001 (as a negative particle) and GSN1384; unapproved, i.e. rejected; by implication, worthless (literally or morally):
KJV--castaway, rejected, reprobate.

So in my book you just claimed that you have already been to the Bematos tou Christou and were already rejected, (a castaway). As for the Bematos Judgement Seat of Messiah, (which most here like to think is the so-called Rapture) you might want to backtrack and read 2Cor.12 to see what Paul is writing about concerning the passage quoted herein above. As for you and your own appointed times; their time is not our time, his time is not her time, and your times will not be at the same times that my times were Old Timer:

Luke 19:11-20 KJV
11. And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
12. He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
13. And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
14. But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
15. And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
16. Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
17. And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
18. And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
19. And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
20. And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:

Understand? It is personal and individual just as all the Gospel:

1) Then came the first . . .
2) And the second came . . .
3) And then another came . . .
4) And so on, and so on, until your turn!

Do you know the terror of the Lord Old Timer?

2 Corinthians 5:8-11 KJV
8. We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9. Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; (bematos tou Christou) that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
11. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

If indeed you overcome you will know of what I speak.
And in the after days you shall consider these things perfectly.
And just so you know your carcass will not be going up with you.

 

[Interplanner]

BW it says so in Mt 24. You may not take Mt 24 as that generation, but that is untenable because of the overlap material of Mt 10 which is that generation. But you do think Lk 21 is that generation. You said this in a thread today. It is introduced by the exact same questions, once again making your position schitzophrenic and fragmented, artificially pitting Mt 24 vs Lk 21, when there is no good reason. But at least this time it is minor, sort of. It's not 2P2P. It would be worse if the lead ups about the DofJ in Mt 21-23 were fragmented.

 

[Old Timer]

I spoke according to the Scripture which you claim to uphold.
The kingdom of heaven is like a net according to the Master whom you claim to follow:

Matthew 13:47-49 KJV
47. Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
48. Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
49. So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

See what a "castaway" is in the Scripture?
It is the worthless, rotten, rejected, throw away carcass of a fish:

2 Corinthians 13:5-6 KJV
5. Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? [GSN#0096 adikomos]
6. But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates [GSN#0096 adikomos].

Original Strong's Ref. #96
Romanized adokimos
Pronounced ad-ok'-ee-mos
from GSN0001 (as a negative particle) and GSN1384; unapproved, i.e. rejected; by implication, worthless (literally or morally):
KJV--castaway, rejected, reprobate.

So in my book you just claimed that you have already been to the Bematos tou Christou and were already rejected, (a castaway). As for the Bematos Judgement Seat of Messiah, (which most here like to think is the so-called Rapture) you might want to backtrack and read 2Cor.12 to see what Paul is writing about concerning the passage quoted herein above. As for you and your own appointed times; their time is not our time, his time is not her time, and your times will not be at the same times that my times were Old Timer:

Luke 19:11-20 KJV
11. And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
12. He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
13. And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
14. But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
15. And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
16. Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
17. And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
18. And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
19. And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
20. And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:

Understand? It is personal and individual just as all the Gospel:

1) Then came the first . . .
2) And the second came . . .
3) And then another came . . .
4) And so on, and so on, until your turn!

Do you know the terror of the Lord Old Timer?

2 Corinthians 5:8-11 KJV
8. We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9. Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; (bematos tou Christou) that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
11. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

If indeed you overcome you will know of what I speak.
And in the after days you shall consider these things perfectly.
And just so you know your carcass will not be going up with you.

Another thinly veiled denial?

I knew you wouldn't be able to do it.. some hate the thought of that coming Day.. the Day of the LORD, the Day of Jesus Christ..

Some can't even say it.. they pretend the things which shall be are a spiritual application of the present..

 

[Interplanner]

Youre too harsh, OT. There is no denial of the 2nd coming. Poorly done.

You are totally off about the pretending. You make spiritual sound like it is a disease. that is actually the work of the Spirit right now--to make the things coming so real we can taste them (Heb 6). Very ignorant of you to put it that way.

The NT is not lopsided toward the 2nd coming, but to the Gospel. The angels do not long to peer into the 2nd coming, but into the Gospel.

 

[Old Timer]

Youre too harsh, OT. There is no denial of the 2nd coming. Poorly done.

We'll see.. I haven't seen him say or even imply that the Day of the Lord is future.

And I'm certainly not holding my breath.

You make spiritual sound like it is a disease. that is actually the work of the Spirit right now--to make the things coming so real we can taste them (Heb 6). Very ignorant of you to put it that way.

And you folks make the earnest of our inheritance sound like it's the ultimate end.. sorry.. it's not..

The NT is not lopsided toward the 2nd coming, but to the Gospel. The angels do not long to peer into the 2nd coming, but into the Gospel.

Eschatology is largely the study of end times.. is there something about the future which bothers you to the point where you must constantly speak of the past?

 

[Biblewriter]

BW it says so in Mt 24. You may not take Mt 24 as that generation, but that is untenable because of the overlap material of Mt 10 which is that generation. But you do think Lk 21 is that generation. You said this in a thread today. It is introduced by the exact same questions, once again making your position schitzophrenic and fragmented, artificially pitting Mt 24 vs Lk 21, when there is no good reason. But at least this time it is minor, sort of. It's not 2P2P. It would be worse if the lead ups about the DofJ in Mt 21-23 were fragmented.

Actually, the leadups, as you call them, were three separate questions. When shall these things happen (speaking of the destruction of the temple) and what shall be the sign of your coming, and of the end of the age.

The part of Jesus' answer to the first question is recorded in Luke 21, The part about His answer to the other two questions is in Matthew 24.

 

[Interplanner]

No its not those questions. Some of the things you say! It is the undoing of context.

Two of those questions are issues at hand, because of the doctrine of the end from Daniel. The coming was expected right after.

But the "lead ups" were from Mt 21-23, if you had noticed.

21: the vineyard staff is removed for lack of production and a new people is installed
22: those who refuse to come to the wedding have their city burnt down by the spurned king
23: the house of Israel (aka the identity) is said to be desolate because its leaders will not sing Ps 18 about Jesus of Nazareth and mean it.

Having just heard all that, but looking at the grand buildings, the disicples were anxious to know how to put the two things together, thinking the grand buildings were there by God's favor for the Messianic kingdom. Instead they were to hear of the total decimation of the city, shortly.

 

[Interplanner]

OT,
bothered? Yes. It's people who read a text from 2500 years ago and --bing--just because the word "end of time" is there, they assume it is about us! It's called not doing your homework. Dan 7-9 means the end as timestamped in 9, which the mid 1st century. That is why Israel had several itinerant preachers going around about the end of time, why Jesus spoke of the end of all things right after the DofJ in quick succession, etc.

But in the text it was allowed to be delayed, in Mt24B and in the parable of the attentive servants.

As I just said a couple posts back, the Gospel sets up and shows the necessity of the judgement day of God, and the bliss to follow for those who depend on Christ Jesus as their righteousness. The NT is not trying to give us a bunch of chrono-mechanical details about regional wars, predictions, materializations here and there--not if it is going to distract from the basic facts of the day of judgement. I am uncomfortable with all that garbage being a time-wasting field of inquiry, not with the 2nd coming.

None of these normal-language (non-symbolic) passages suggest anything Judaic to happen at the 2nd coming: Rom 3, 8, I Cor 15, Heb 9, 2 Pet 3.

 

[Old Timer]

OT,
bothered? Yes.

Then you should take a break from eschatology and try knitting perhaps..?

Just a suggestion.

 

[7sForDays]

OT,
bothered? Yes. It's people who read a text from 2500 years ago

Excuse me, that "text" is Holy Scripture, breathed by God through his prophets.

Your lack of reverence is revealing.

 

[Biblewriter]

No its not those questions. Some of the things you say! It is the undoing of context.

Two of those questions are issues at hand, because of the doctrine of the end from Daniel. The coming was expected right after.

This is your opinion, but that is all it is, an opinion. And you can try al day, but you cannot demonstrate it is correct.

But the "lead ups" were from Mt 21-23, if you had noticed.

21: the vineyard staff is removed for lack of production and a new people is installed
22: those who refuse to come to the wedding have their city burnt down by the spurned king
23: the house of Israel (aka the identity) is said to be desolate because its leaders will not sing Ps 18 about Jesus of Nazareth and mean it.

Having just heard all that, but looking at the grand buildings, the disicples were anxious to know how to put the two things together, thinking the grand buildings were there by God's favor for the Messianic kingdom. Instead they were to hear of the total decimation of the city, shortly.

The house left to them desolate was not "the house of Israel," but the temple.