The real issue that needs to be voted on, closing the Trad/Prog war camps.

[sentipente]

THIMK!!

 

[reddogs]

Red, I respect you a great deal and I know that anything you propose comes straight from your heart.

We're together right now in the main forum, and do you not see all the debating going on? If this is unity, then I sure would hate to see us fighting!

I do love every single person on this site, and there is no one here that I'd call my enemy, but I do not feel compelled to agree with everyone here either...which includes you, a man that has absolutely earned my respect.

Those verses aren't just aimed at Adventists, they're speaking of the entire body of Christ, but you won't see me kissing the pope's ring in my lifetime for the sake of unity or peace.

There are also many verses about rebuking and sticking to sound doctrine. We cannot forget those.

Total unity is a wonderful dream, but would you be willing to compromise the Sabbath commandment to get it? That's my point....there will be MANY that say to Him on that day "Lord, Lord" and He will tell them He never knew them.

OntheDL posted something yesterday that literally freaked me out, from a personal standpoint, not for or against anyone here on this site....and I think that's where our focus is being shifted from. Ourselves.

Personal accountability and personal constraint. You can't govern that here, you can only reprimand when a boundary is crossed.

I love you for wanting the unity, but at the same time i have to ask how much compromising are you really willing to do in order to achieve it?

We are not compromising anything, if Ellen White is of God, then He will open our eyes so we can comprehend and gain understanding. The Holy Spirit is coming and we are not prepared, our church is feeling it, our bible study group is seeing it, and I hope each and everyone of you is sensing it as reaches into your hearts and begins to make you understand the power of God...

He can do all things we just have to present ourselves to Him so He can use us for His purpose.....

 

[TrustAndObey]

Jesus said either people were FOR Hiim or AGAINST Him. I don't see any middle ground.

I've never written anything and said my words came to me from God. I haven't put anything out there for you to test me on as a prophet.

However, she did. If she didn't pass the test with you personally then she can't be a true prophet (according to scripture) and therefore she was of satan.

It would be really refreshing to see someone just say it instead of skirting around it.

One thing I know for certain, *I* am not qualified to say whether she was or she wasn't because you have to know scripture pretty well in order to test her, and I just don't.

Honestly, I don't know anyone personally qualified to do it either, but some do it anyway. (That wasn't a slam, just a personal observation about RL).

All I know is what OntheDL posted yesterday hit me like a ton of bricks and I'm going to ask him what book it came from. It hit me deep, deep, deep and I welcome anything into my life that makes me self-reflect and realize when things stand in the way of my relationship with God.

I'm seeking personal growth, and I'm certainly not finding much on this forum that is pushing me in that direction.

I'm READY for the bible study forum, but I don't want it until there is moderation.

I can defend my faith all day long....but what good does it do? And if my idea of truth isn't correct, God help me if I present it to someone else that way.

I'm going to start sounding like a broken record. Moderation, moderation, moderation.

Instead of trying to go against a vote we JUST had, I think we need to accept what we voted on and move towards it.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Ice,

You can call it whatever, rename or phase out, but we need to wipe out what seperates us whether in name or in action.

i respect your intent. but i don't think getting rid of the terms will solve any thing. lets think on a practical level

Rename, so everyone can go in either one so they cannot be used to divide, or phase them out as they are a witness to a complete surrender to Satan's strategy to divide and conquer within the Adventist faith.

Again RED you are using emotionally charged retoric. I personally cannot stand that kind of language. I believe it is dishonest and inflamatory, not that you intend it that way. It is an emotional appel to ideals insted of dealing with reality. it would be nice to never disagree, but we do. SDA are going to have to learn to agree to disagree and let the Lord change peoples minds. The SDA's are not good at loving people they do not value people and it is the emphasis on truth that cause the problem. WE are right and you are wrong. SDA's have to learn to value people and treat them well,EVEN we think the other person is wrong.
There has been much made of how this forum needs to represent the "offical" postion and be a 'light" well let me tell you the mod and admins are not impressed with the SDA forum, in fact they are quiet sick of it. This forum should reflect the "reality" of sda culture and that reality is not always agreement

And not a horrible '28 fundi stiky' but a robust Adventist belief section with explanation of the beliefs, with the main Adventist sites, the main Adventist preachers sites, Ellen Whites writings, and a history of the church that set the basis of many of our beliefs and understanding.

you can put those in other "stiky's" wasn't the 28 stiky your idea?

I am not 'lecturing', as the brethren in BSDA made clear when I went there, I am 'schooling' as I dont know enough yet to hit the 'lecture' circuit.......

I was not trying to insult you, just making an observation.

 

[sentipente]

Jesus said either people were FOR Hiim or AGAINST Him. I don't see any middle ground.

I've never written anything and said my words came to me from God. I haven't put anything out there for you to test me on as a prophet.

However, she did. .

She did not. She never claimed to be a prophet. Why is that truth so difficult to accept?

 

[TrustAndObey]

Oh Sentipente, be prepared.

There are some on here that INSIST she did call herself a prophet and some that INSIST she did not.

That argument has gone around and around and around this forum many times before.

But for the record, I agree with you.

 

[sentipente]

Honestly, I don't know anyone personally qualified to do it either, but some do it anyway. (That wasn't a slam, just a personal observation about RL).

Think of what you wrote here. You admit that you don't know if they are qualified but you are prepared to assume they are not. Why is that?

 

[reddogs]

Ice,
i respect your intent. but i don't think getting rid of the terms will solve any thing. lets think on a practical level

Again RED you are using emotionally charged retoric. I personally cannot stand that kind of language. I believe it is dishonest and inflamatory, not that you intend it that way. It is an emotional appel to ideals insted of dealing with reality. it would be nice to never disagree, but we do. SDA are going to have to learn to agree to disagree and let the Lord change peoples minds. The SDA's are not good at loving people they do not value people and it is the emphasis on truth that cause the problem. WE are right and you are wrong. SDA's have to learn to value people and treat them well,EVEN we think the other person is wrong.
There has been much made of how this forum needs to represent the "offical" postion and be a 'light" well let me tell you the mod and admins are not impressed with the SDA forum, in fact they are quiet sick of it. This forum should reflect the "reality" of sda culture and that reality is not always agreement

you can put those in other "stiky's" wasn't the 28 stiky your idea?

I was not trying to insult you, just making an observation.

Stormy and me fought each other a BSDA till it dawned on me I cannot change one wrinkle, one spot, one thought in another. Only the Holy Spirit can do it but we must present ourselves to God and let the Spirit give us understanding, let go of self, let go of 'mans wisdom', let go of our carnal nature, as this is what Jesus was trying to tell us. Let God take over the reins and fill us with a love that passes all understanding and trumps hate, trumps anger, trumps evil, and destroys the instigator of it forever......

 

[StormyOne]

Jesus said either people were FOR Hiim or AGAINST Him. I don't see any middle ground.

I've never written anything and said my words came to me from God. I haven't put anything out there for you to test me on as a prophet.

However, she did. If she didn't pass the test with you personally then she can't be a true prophet (according to scripture) and therefore she was of satan.

It would be really refreshing to see someone just say it instead of skirting around it.

One thing I know for certain, *I* am not qualified to say whether she was or she wasn't because you have to know scripture pretty well in order to test her, and I just don't.

Honestly, I don't know anyone personally qualified to do it either, but some do it anyway. (That wasn't a slam, just a personal observation about RL).

All I know is what OntheDL posted yesterday hit me like a ton of bricks and I'm going to ask him what book it came from. It hit me deep, deep, deep and I welcome anything into my life that makes me self-reflect and realize when things stand in the way of my relationship with God.

I'm seeking personal growth, and I'm certainly not finding much on this forum that is pushing me in that direction.

I'm READY for the bible study forum, but I don't want it until there is moderation.

I can defend my faith all day long....but what good does it do? And if my idea of truth isn't correct, God help me if I present it to someone else that way.

I'm going to start sounding like a broken record. Moderation, moderation, moderation.

Instead of trying to go against a vote we JUST had, I think we need to accept what we voted on and move towards it.

there are no "tests" for a prophet... thats another thread though....

T&O let me remind you of an incident that happened with Jesus and his disciples... remember the disciples got ticked off because there was a man who was healing people in Jesus' name, yet that man was not in their group. Jesus told his disciples that the man was not against them, that he was on their side so leave him be.

When I joined this forum it took less than a week for some of you to decide that I was "the enemy." That I was not "with you." That determination was made in spite of the fact that I have been in this church longer than many of you on the traditional side combined. Even with my assuring you that I am not against you, I feel I have been treated as such.... My point, it is possible to be for Christ and not think the exact same way you think. It is possible to be with Christ as an adventist and not be a traditional adventist. But some don't believe that at all.... that is the stumblingblock..... it has always been the stumblingblock here....

 

[mva1985]

She did not. She never claimed to be a prophet. Why is that truth so difficult to accept.

She did not call herself a prophet, but she did say that her role was more than that of a prophet. She was a messenger from the Lord.

 

[sentipente]

Oh Sentipente, be prepared.

There are some on here that INSIST she did call herself a prophet and some that INSIST she did not.

That argument has gone around and around and around this forum many times before.

But for the record, I agree with you.

But it's a foolish argument. It is not really about EGW. The argument is about whether some people can use what she wrote to attack others. The sad thing is that many of those who claim to be her defenders don't really know what she taught. Most of them never read where she said that just because we have believed something for hundreds of years does not mean that it is true. They have not read where she said that we must be willing to change our beliefs if the evidence points in that direction. They are misusing her for their own purposes.

 

[TrustAndObey]

Think of what you wrote here. You admit that you don't know if they are qualified but you are prepared to assume they are not. Why is that?

I know some people don't know scripture well enough to know that Christ became the Lord of the living and the dead....so if they don't know that little tidbit of Bible 101, how in the world can they test a prophet? Or someone they think claimed to be a prophet?

If I can't post that Jesus is the Lord of the living and the dead without 30 posts following that say "oh no He wasn't!" then why should I put my faith in their understanding of something else?

That's all I was saying.

If they can't prove to me they know scripture, and I'm a pretty easy sell, then hey.....

 

[sentipente]

If they can't prove to me they know scripture, and I'm a pretty easy sell, then hey.....

And that's a good positoin to stand on. But there are some people here who show that they are unable to understand stuff that I write. They twist what I say when it is very clear that I did not say what they claim I say. Yet, these same people want to convince me that they can better understand what men wrote 2000 years ago in Koine Greek, a language I have studied and they have not. Do you get the picture?

 

[TrustAndObey]

But it's a foolish argument. It is not really about EGW. The argument is about whether some people can use what she wrote to attack others. The sad thing is that many of those who claim to be her defenders don't really know what she taught. Most of them never read where she said that just because we have believed something for hundreds of years does not mean that it is true. They have not read where she said that we must be willing to change our beliefs if the evidence points in that direction. They are misusing her for their own purposes.

I agree with the misusing part, believe me.

I see both sides misuse her writings and I haven't even read them.

I do know she said not to ever quote her until you know scripture backwards and forwards, and frankly I see people do it a lot anyway.

 

[TrustAndObey]

Back to that human knowledge thing eh Sentipente?

Four words for ya.....the book of James.

 

[reddogs]

there are no "tests" for a prophet... thats another thread though....

T&O let me remind you of an incident that happened with Jesus and his disciples... remember the disciples got ticked off because there was a man who was healing people in Jesus' name, yet that man was not in their group. Jesus told his disciples that the man was not against them, that he was on their side so leave him be.

When I joined this forum it took less than a week for some of you to decide that I was "the enemy." That I was not "with you." That determination was made in spite of the fact that I have been in this church longer than many of you on the traditional side combined. Even with my assuring you that I am not against you, I feel I have been treated as such.... My point, it is possible to be for Christ and not think the exact same way you think. It is possible to be with Christ as an adventist and not be a traditional adventist. But some don't believe that at all.... that is the stumblingblock..... it has always been the stumblingblock here....

There is no "enemy", there is no "true adventist" there is no "comprimising". There is Gods truth which Christ made clear, Love God with all your strength and might and Love your fellowman. If you are not doing this, then you are not following what Jesus Christ made clear in giving us this as the ultimate truth...

 

[mva1985]

I have noticed from reading her writings that it tends to make you want to read the Bible even more. Just my experience.

 

[StormyOne]

There is no "enemy", there is no "true adventist" there is no "comprimising". There is Gods truth which Christ made clear, Love God with all your strength and might and Love your fellowman. If you are not doing this, then you are not following what Jesus Christ made clear in giving us this as the ultimate truth...

I agree Red, however there are those who believe that there is no uniqueness in that, so they cling to those things that they believe will make them unique, not realizing that loving God and loving their fellowman is the ultimate in uniqueness....

 

[TrustAndObey]

Stormy, I think I would've completely missed your post if Red hadn't quoted it.

I apologize but this thread is moving faster than my brain this morning.

Let me just say this...I am very, very sorry for anything that happened back then. Since that time I went through a horrible ordeal and completely turned my back on God for 15 months.

I tout the name Trust And Obey, but ironically it turns out to be the hardest thing for me to do. I'm honest about it and I although I'm not proud of it, I did learn a lot during those 15 months.

I am in NO position to judge anyone else. I'm also in no postion to tell people the truth when I can't always live by what *I* feel it is myself.

I'm the worst kind of sinner there is, and that's a fact.

Back then I could quote scripture off the top of my head and not have to look it up. I was really close to having the entire bible memorized.

Yet I didn't DO what it says. To me, that really is the worst kind of sinner and that's why what OntheDL posted hit me SO HARD yesterday. Seriously, it scared me to death because those words felt like they were aimed directly at me.

Now that I cannot remember scripture or even where to find it half the time, ironically I feel it more.

I guess any accusations that I was a legalist back then really were true.

I was a Pharisee of the worst kind...I expected others to do it, but I didn't do it myself.

I'm begging for a clean slate. I don't deserve one, but I'm asking for one nonetheless.

 

[reddogs]

The time is getting short, the devil has us by the short hairs, we have accepted his trap of dividing us into warring camps. Will we continue straight into his snare that leads us to eternal death or can God come back into the Adventist forum and allow us to love one another, can He?