THE READINESS RAPTURE: It's not just another rapture theory

jgr · Jul 12, 2018

seventysevens said:
The whole foundation of amillennialism is to say that all are Israel and reject that satan is locked in prison for 1000 years when Jesus returns m so there is no limit to what extant you'll go to say that all are Israel , to actually admit there is a difference between spiritual Israel and the people who live in and born in Israel would be to admit defeat

No difference in physical DNA.

The only difference is in spiritual DNA.

They either have it, or they don't.

seventysevens · Jul 12, 2018

jgr said:
They either have it, or they don't.

there is no such thing as spiritual DNA it doesn't exist so nobody has it
just a fantasy term made up to write a book about ,

BABerean2 · Jul 12, 2018

seventysevens said:
there is no such thing as spiritual DNA it doesn't exist so nobody has it
just a fantasy term made up to write a book about ,

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

.

jgr · Jul 12, 2018

seventysevens said:
there is no such thing as spiritual DNA it doesn't exist so nobody has it
just a fantasy term made up to write a book about ,

Sure is...genes are faith and obedience.

seventysevens · Jul 12, 2018

jgr said:
Sure is...genes are faith and obedience.

Nope gfo is not DNA , just something else you insist has to be when it is not

jgr · Jul 12, 2018

seventysevens said:
Nope gfo is not DNA , just something else you insist has to be when it is not

gfo?

Choose Wisely · Jul 12, 2018

jgr said:
Presumably you meant "I couldn't care less about genetics", otherwise you do care.

Will this work...........I could care more about genetics.

jgr said:
But if you don't, why do you still refer to "Israel" or "Jew" other than spiritually? Those are genetic descriptions.

[Staff edit]. God says there are Jews and Gentiles, that's good enough for me. He also says he's says he broke off the natural branches and grafted in the wild branches and he will regraft the natural branches. Kinda messes up your whole gig doesn't it.

jgr said:
What God knows is who are His Only Chosen People of faith in and obedience to His Son; and who are not. (Galatians 3:28,29).

Thanks for taking the time to let me know what God knows.

jgr said:
Nothing to do with genetics, nor ever has been. (Genesis 17:12)

I could care more about Genetics.........but I don't.

BABerean2 · Jul 12, 2018

Choose Wisely said:
God says there are Jews and Gentiles, that's good enough for me. He also says he's says he broke off the natural branches and grafted in the wild branches and he will regraft the natural branches. Kinda messes up your whole gig doesn't it.

Funny how you leave out the one word that kills your Two Peoples of God doctrine...

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

.

keras · Jul 12, 2018

Choose Wisely said:
God says there are Jews and Gentiles, that's good enough for me. He also says he's says he broke off the natural branches and grafted in the wild branches and he will regraft the natural branches. Kinda messes up your whole gig doesn't it.

[Staff edit].
Your post above shows how wrong you are; Romans 11:17-24 says some of the natural branches were lopped off for their lack of faith. The natural ones can be grafted back in, BUT; only if they do not continue faithless.... verse 23.
The Jewish people have had nearly 2000 years to change their stance about Jesus, some have and they will be the remnant referred to in Isaiah 6:13, Zechariah 13:9, Romans 9:27
Romans 2:29 tells us who are the real Jews.

Choose Wisely · Jul 12, 2018

BABerean2 said:
Funny how you leave out the one word that kills your Two Peoples of God doctrine...

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

.

I certainly have no problem with the word SOME. The scripture says........Blindness IN PART.

BABerean2 · Jul 12, 2018

Choose Wisely said:
I certainly have no problem with the word SOME. The scripture says........Blindness IN PART.

Are all of the Israelites "partially blinded" or are part of them blinded and part of them are not blinded?

The answer is found in Romans 11:5.
.

keras · Jul 13, 2018

[Staff edit].

There are none and never will be any living people in heaven. Heaven is the place for Spirit beings. Jesus said: No one goes to heaven, except the One who came from there. John 3:13 and John 7:34, John 8:21-25, Revelation 5:10

Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all the tribes, races, nations, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

As this verse does not mention the location, any belief as to where it takes place, from just verse 7, is purely an assumption.
However, from the context we see that chapter is telling about earthly events, the first 3 verses set the scene. The whole Book of Revelation is to tell us about God's plans for His people on earth.
How can we be sure that standing before the Throne does not mean that this vast multitude is in heaven?

1/ The Greek word translated 'before' - enopion; literally means in the sight of and is used several times about humans on earth, who are before or in the sight of the Lord. 1 Tim 2:14, Romans 14:22, Galatians 1:20, Acts 7:56

2/ Ezekiel 1:1, was standing by the river Kebar, when he saw the entire heavenly host in the Throne room of God.

3/ The Israelites in the desert came before the Lord, Exodus 16:9. They did not go to heaven then.

4/ When the Son of man comes in all His glory, He will sit on His glorious Throne, with all the nations gathered before Him..... Matthew 25:31-32 All the nations don't go to heaven!

5/ Revelation 14:1 plainly says that Jesus in on Mt Zion when He selects the 144,000 out of all the faithful Christians gathered in Jerusalem.

6/ Heaven, God's dwelling place, is a Spiritual concept, in another dimension to our physical existence. It is, therefore, anywhere and everywhere to us.

7/ Last but not least, are the many prophesies that tell us how we Christians will be gathered and settled into all of the holy Land. WE are the people referred to in Ezekiel 38:8b That is our destiny and our great privilege, to be the people God always wanted there, but has never had; His witnesses and His Light to the nations. John 15:27, Matthew 5:14-16

seventysevens · Jul 13, 2018

BABerean2 said:
So how much of Jacob's DNA does a person need.

How much of Jacob's DNA ?

seventysevens · Jul 13, 2018

[Staff edit].

keras said:
We will have to face trials, 1 Peter 4:12, but God will not test us beyond what we can stand.

True ,BUT that is not the GREAT Tribulations that Jesus speaks of that will be so Great in intensity and magnitude that if He did not return to end it , there would be no living flesh remaining - you have no understanding at all what the Great trib is for and why it happens - it is NOT for the true believers ! but if a believer has strayed away they will experience it - which is what Jesus was speaking about in his warnings that if you fall into a sinful lifestyle

BABerean2 · Jul 13, 2018

seventysevens said:
How much of Jacob's DNA ?

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

.

keras · Jul 13, 2018

[Staff edit].

The truth is that a general 'rapture to heaven' is a Biblical impossibility. Only the two Witnesses are taken to heaven and they are killed first.

[Staff edit].

keras · Jul 13, 2018

[Staff edit].

seventysevens said:
True ,BUT that is not the GREAT Tribulations that Jesus speaks of that will be so Great in intensity and magnitude that if He did not return to end it , there would be no living flesh remaining - you have no understanding at all what the Great trib is for and why it happens - it is NOT for the true believers !

Saying that I have 'no understanding of the GT', is a statement made from sheer ignorance of me and of the plain, readable Words of the Bible.

Revelation 12:6-17 tells the story of how God's faithful people will be taken to a place of safety on earth, during the 1260 days of the Great Tribulation. But verse 17 says that not all of the Christians will go to safety, because those ones failed to trust in God for their protection. Daniel 11:32 shows the two groups. Also Zechariah 14:2.

[Staff edit].

seventysevens · Jul 13, 2018

keras said:
Saying that I have 'no understanding of the GT', is a statement made from sheer ignorance of me and of the plain, readable Words of the Bible.

Revelation 12:6-17 tells the story of how God's faithful people will be taken to a place of safety on earth, during the 1260 days of the Great Tribulation. But verse 17 says that not all of the Christians will go to safety, because those ones failed to trust in God for their protection. Daniel 11:32 shows the two groups. Also Zechariah 14:2.

PROVE your case
Rev 12 speak of those in the area of Israel - NOT the entire planet , Petra is a small location and cannot possible hold 2 Billion Christians

Prove What the PURPOSE of the GT is for ..
IT IS a Distinct "hour of Trial " a specific period of time for a specific purpose unlike any other time in all of history- your notion that it is just everyday times of tribulation is NOT what the GT is for

Chinchilla · Jul 13, 2018

keras said:
The truth is that a general 'rapture to heaven' is a Biblical impossibility. Only the two Witnesses are taken to heaven and they are killed first.

Enoch ?

jgr · Jul 13, 2018

[Staff edit].

You'll notice that there is no reference in Galatians 3 to physical DNA as a condition for God's acceptance.

But there certainly is to spiritual DNA "in Christ".

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The same is true of the entirety of Scripture.

Israel is genetically ubiquitous in the entire human race i.e. everyone on the planet is to at least some extent genetically Jewish. The Jewish community itself acknowledges and applauds this reality.

Abraham lineage
DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?
Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/132800
https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/tracing-lost-israelite-tribes-to-africa-1.5283901
https://www.cnn.com/2013/02/01/world/africa/nigeria-jews-igbo/index.html
http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/...-africa-has-jewish-roots-genetic-tests-reveal
https://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/...her-claims-proof-of-tribe-of-Ephraim-in-India
https://www.jta.org/2013/05/23/life...bush-bani-israel-tribe-claims-jewish-heritage

Example of the mathematical basis of ancestral genetic ubiquity

DNA as a condition for spiritual chosenness is therefore null and void.

If you think you know more about Jewish genetics than the Jews themselves know about their own genetics, I'm sure they would welcome your enlightenment.

THE READINESS RAPTURE: It's not just another rapture theory

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