The Rapture!

[Heavens]

This morning, I've been struggling with the rapture. Some very faithful prophets are saying it will be pre-tribulation, but the Bible says that those who endure to the end will be saved, and all of that. So confusing! Both the pre-trib camp and the post-trib camp have good points, that's why it's so confusing.

I prayed about it, and asked Jesus to help me understand. Then I got up and walked into the bedroom and laid down to watch the news. Then the thought popped into my head, the 144k will be raptured and that's it.

I'm like......huh? Did that come from my own mind, or was that from God? I dont' know! So, then I go back to my computer and google "who is the bride of christ" and it's the 144k from Israel, male virgins of pure blood line without spot.

Then I'm like........whoah! It sounds to me that only the 144k are taken to heaven, and the rest of us are going to stay here to endure till the end, and we will remain on earth afterwards too as we will be divinely protected during the wrath.

We are not part of the Bride, but part of the Great Multitude. That's the understanding that I got.

So, it appears that both camps are PARTLY right! The Bride will be raptured and the Great Multitude will remain on the earth, and protected by His hand, during the wrath of God.

What do you think about this? I honestly don't know!!

I am of the Bride of Christ. YOU are of the Bride of Christ. We are married to Him in the New Covenant in His Blood. Within us is being formed His Child, the Son of God, Christ in you, the Hope of Glory. He is with us now forever. Where He is, is where everyone of us will be always.

He is with us always and forever. Our body's death can't affect us who are in Christ. The simplicity in Christ leaves us nothing to worry about dear

Give no heed to the tricks the mind tries to play on us, or scriptures that others say "mean" things that God hasn't shown us personally. And especially, no worrying about things beyond today;

(Mat 6:34) Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

(Heb 13:5) Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

(Mat 28:20) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Blessings in Christ forever

 

[Choose Wisely]

So, you didn't see what is written there? Did anybody else see it?

I saw it.

 

[LovedofHim]

I saw it.

Hallelujah!

Revelation 7 describes the elect for whom the great tribulation is cut short. The antichrist doesn't even come on the scene until Revelation 9 after the Day of the Lord has begun.

 

[interpreter]

Why is there even any debate?

Matthew 24
29 “Immediately after the distress of those days “‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’[b]
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

After the tribulation suffered by the early Church, the sign of the Son of Man appeared in the clouds on Oct. 28th, 312 AD, and on that day, Jesus came into power through the first Christian horseman, St. Constantine, who rode a white horse and with a bow conquered all the known world for Jesus and the Church. And Constantine sent his messengers with a trumpet, and gathered all the Church together, to Nicea.
Sorry, there was no rapture. Jesus never mentions one either in the Gospels or the Revelation.

 

[realtruth101]

I concurr. The SC/gathering is after the trib of those days.

The debate begins when people leave the plain and simple straight forward passages that speak in context to the event in question, and they grasp and hold onto obscure and vague passages, some completely out of context, to build this new but false teaching

 

[realtruth101]

After the tribulation suffered by the early Church, the sign of the Son of Man appeared in the clouds on Oct. 28th, 312 AD, and on that day, Jesus came into power through the first Christian horseman, St. Constantine, who rode a white horse and with a bow conquered all the known world for Jesus and the Church. And Constantine sent his messengers with a trumpet, and gathered all the Church together, to Nicea.
Sorry, there was no rapture. Jesus never mentions one either in the Gospels or the Revelation.

I'm sorry but the whole earth suposedly will see the sign and mourn! there is no recorded event where all nations mourned at this sign in the sky, so I would have to conclude you are wrong

 

[realtruth101]

After the tribulation suffered by the early Church, the sign of the Son of Man appeared in the clouds on Oct. 28th, 312 AD, and on that day, Jesus came into power through the first Christian horseman, St. Constantine, who rode a white horse and with a bow conquered all the known world for Jesus and the Church. And Constantine sent his messengers with a trumpet, and gathered all the Church together, to Nicea.
Sorry, there was no rapture. Jesus never mentions one either in the Gospels or the Revelation.

Important note; Jesus will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and the gathering is in heaven. you got the wrong guy doing the gathering and the wrong place being gathered

 

[LovedofHim]

The debate begins when people leave the plain and simple straight forward passages that speak in context to the event in question, and they grasp and hold onto obscure and vague passages, some completely out of context, to build this new but false teaching

Is Matt 24 a vague and obscure passage? The gathering of God's people (the elect) takes place when the great tribulation is cut short before the antichrist arises.


21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25Behold, I have told you before.

 

[ripple the car]

My husband and I still belong to a conservative, Evangelical Protestant church, which teaches a pre-trib rapture.

Frankly, I don't read such a thing in the Scripture..... What I read is that there will be a tribulation, which will be shortened for the sake of the elect (believers in Christ). After that, the Messiah will come again in glory on high, with His angels, and the dead in Christ will be raised first, and those saints still alive will rise to meet Him in the sky.

Does anyone else read the same??

 

[realtruth101]

My husband and I still belong to a conservative, Evangelical Protestant church, which teaches a pre-trib rapture.

Frankly, I don't read such a thing in the Scripture..... What I read is that there will be a tribulation, which will be shortened for the sake of the elect (believers in Christ). After that, the Messiah will come again in glory on high, with His angels, and the dead in Christ will be raised first, and those saints still alive will rise to meet Him in the sky.

Does anyone else read the same??

Thats what the bible teaches! It wasn't hard to figure out, its not at all mysterious and secretive not to mention as confusing as a rubix cube with three colors, where you have to be a fig tree arborist, or a greek translation expert. Its written as simple a 5th grader would come to the same conclusion, trouble is.....thats part of the problem, just like the TV show regardless of the question being as simple for a first grader, the contestants over think and answer incorrectly most off the time

 

[ripple the car]

Thats what the bible teaches! It wasn't hard to figure out, its not at all mysterious and secretive not to mention as confusing as a rubix cube with three colors, where you have to be a fig tree arborist, or a greek translation expert. Its written as simple a 5th grader would come to the same conclusion, trouble is.....thats part of the problem, just like the TV show regardless of the question being as simple for a first grader, the contestants over think and answer incorrectly most off the time

I know! Ok, thankful not to be alone in that! It's funny and odd to hear Evangelical preachers manipulate, mis-quote, and badly interpret Scripture just to make it fit around an eschatologicol concept which I can't find anywhere in God's Word!

I find it interestomg, personally, that a pre-trib Rapture is not a concept found within the Catholic or Orthodox churches at all, and these guys have been reading and commenting on the Bible for 2,000 years, in multiple langauges, on three continents.

 

[realtruth101]

Is Matt 24 a vague and obscure passage? The gathering of God's people (the elect) takes place when the great tribulation is cut short before the antichrist arises.


21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25Behold, I have told you before.

No its not vague or obscure if you are able to grasp the gathering of believers happens in verse 31 which is after the sign of the Son of Man in the sky and all nations mourning, after the sun going dark the moon not giving its light, and after the antichrist sets the abomination of desolation in the Holy place. BUT YOU DON'T! but not to worry this will probably be where you drop one of your 10 page discourses showing how everyone has mis-interpreted the plain and simple readings. etc.....etc.....

 

[realtruth101]

I know! Ok, thankful not to be alone in that! It's funny and odd to hear Evangelical preachers manipulate, mis-quote, and badly interpret Scripture just to make it fit around an eschatologicol concept which I can't find anywhere in God's Word!

I find it interestomg, personally, that a pre-trib Rapture is not a concept found within the Catholic or Orthodox churches at all, and these guys have been reading and commenting on the Bible for 2,000 years, in multiple langauges, on three continents.

It proves if you have enough money to infiltrate the seminaries and bible schools you can produce teachers and preachers who will teach and preach exactly as their taught. regardless of what the bible says, your not alone by a long shot, but what you will find is people hold their teachers and preachers on such a high pedestal. The lengths they will go to, to refuse to see the truth is frustrating and sad. most pre-trib believers are not daily bible readers and the ones who are and defend this idea, are so indoctrinated into this false teaching they can't even see how mixed up the chronological order of endtime events are, theres two of everything1

 

[LovedofHim]

No its not vague or obscure if you are able to grasp the gathering of believers happens in verse 31 which is after the sign of the Son of Man in the sky and all nations mourning, after the sun going dark the moon not giving its light, and after the antichrist sets the abomination of desolation in the Holy place. BUT YOU DON'T! but not to worry this will probably be where you drop one of your 10 page discourses showing how everyone has mis-interpreted the plain and simple readings. etc.....etc.....

Oh, now this is amusing. You spout off about how simple it is and then proceed to completely go against what Jesus said.

Don't you find it odd that Revelation 7 shows the elect church standing in heaven having come out of great tribulation before the antichrist takes the stage in Rev 9?

Don't you find it odd that the church is dwelling in heaven in Revelation 12 and 13 before the antichrist takes power to blaspheme us "heaven-dwellers"?

Gee, maybe Jesus was right in Matt 24 after all that the great tribulation that began with the desolation of Israel and lasts until the time of the end will be cut short before the time of wrath on the Day of the Lord, during which the antichrist is around.
What you are missing, Realtruth101, is the sign of the Son of Man that precedes his coming on the clouds by 3 1/2 years is the moment when the tribulation is cut short.

You don't even know what the abomination of desolation is.

Jesus said:

1. Abomination of desolation of Israel
2. Great tribulation
3. Great tribulation cut short for sake of elect
4. Antichrist, false prophet arise

Riddle me this, Realtruth101, does Daniel 11 say that the abomination of desolation and subsequent tribulation (sword, captivity, spoil) occur at the time of the end?


31And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
32And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
33And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
34Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries. 35And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

 

[realtruth101]

Oh, now this is amusing. You spout off about how simple it is and then proceed to completely go against what Jesus said.

Don't you find it odd that Revelation 7 shows the elect church standing in heaven having come out of great tribulation before the antichrist takes the stage in Rev 9?

Don't you find it odd that the church is dwelling in heaven in Revelation 12 and 13 before the antichrist takes power to blaspheme us "heaven-dwellers"?

Gee, maybe Jesus was right in Matt 24 after all that the great tribulation that began with the desolation of Israel and lasts until the time of the end will be cut short before the time of wrath on the Day of the Lord, during which the antichrist is around.
What you are missing, Realtruth101, is the sign of the Son of Man that precedes his coming on the clouds by 3 1/2 years is the moment when the tribulation is cut short.

You don't even know what the abomination of desolation is.

Jesus said:

1. Abomination of desolation of Israel
2. Great tribulation
3. Great tribulation cut short for sake of elect
4. Antichrist, false prophet arise

Don't you find it odd that we see Christians who were killed are given a white robe in Rev. 6:11 at the opening of the fifth seal, and they are told to REST AWHILE LONGER, until both the number of their fellow servants AND THEIR BRETHEREN, who would be killed as THEY WERE, was COMPLETED." .........So from this we can see that while the dead in Christ are still resting waiting to be resurrected! they are given white robes, so when we see multitudes in white robes, it doesnt necesarly conclude that they have been resurrected yet, they may still be waiting, as we saw in verse 11.

 

[LovedofHim]

Don't you find it odd that we see Christians who were killed are given a white robe in Rev. 6:11 at the opening of the fifth seal, and they are told to REST AWHILE LONGER, until both the number of their fellow servants AND THEIR BRETHEREN, who would be killed as THEY WERE, was COMPLETED." .........So from this we can see that while the dead in Christ are still resting waiting to be resurrected! they are given white robes, so when we see multitudes in white robes, it doesnt necesarly conclude that they have been resurrected yet, they may still be waiting, as we saw in verse 11.

Don't you find it odd that the tribulation is cut short at the time of the 5th seal, before the sun and moon darken in the 6th seal, and that's the moment when the white robes (glorified bodies) are given and then we see the entire glorified church standing in heaven, having come out of great tribulation that ended in the 5th seal, wearing white robes that are given in the 5th seal?

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: (6th seal!)

The only people dying as martyrs after the 5th seal are those who are beheaded refusing to worship the beast, aka "the rest of the woman's offspring" in Revelation 12 and 13, 14, and 20.

The martyrs of the church are told to wait to be avenged, not wait for white robes. They are GIVEN white robes.
The church in heaven is praising God for salvation, having come out of great tribulation, and is wearing white robes (glorified bodies). It is the entire raptured church. Christ brings salvation with him to the church. It is not given only to the dead.

 

[LovedofHim]

Riddle me this, Realtruth101, does Daniel 11 say that the abomination of desolation and subsequent tribulation (sword, captivity, spoil) occur at the time of the end? What does it say goes on EVEN UNTIL THE TIME OF THE END?


31And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
32And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
33And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
34Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries. 35And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

 

[realtruth101]

Oh, now this is amusing. You spout off about how simple it is and then proceed to completely go against what Jesus said.

Don't you find it odd that Revelation 7 shows the elect church standing in heaven having come out of great tribulation before the antichrist takes the stage in Rev 9?

Don't you find it odd that the church is dwelling in heaven in Revelation 12 and 13 before the antichrist takes power to blaspheme us "heaven-dwellers"?

Gee, maybe Jesus was right in Matt 24 after all that the great tribulation that began with the desolation of Israel and lasts until the time of the end will be cut short before the time of wrath on the Day of the Lord, during which the antichrist is around.
What you are missing, Realtruth101, is the sign of the Son of Man that precedes his coming on the clouds by 3 1/2 years is the moment when the tribulation is cut short.

You don't even know what the abomination of desolation is.

Jesus said:

1. Abomination of desolation of Israel
2. Great tribulation
3. Great tribulation cut short for sake of elect
4. Antichrist, false prophet arise

Riddle me this, Realtruth101, does Daniel 11 say that the abomination of desolation and subsequent tribulation (sword, captivity, spoil) occur at the time of the end?


31And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
32And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
33And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
34Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries. 35And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

Riddle me this???? I don't do riddles, but I will say the angel tells Daniel "Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end." so unless an angel has come to you personally and said daughter these words have become unsealed to you and you now have a complete understanding of them, I would be a little hesitant, because the book of Daniel has hundreds of interpretations all differing in one way or the other, so I wouldn't be so fast to say they have been unsealed

 

[realtruth101]

Don't you find it odd that the tribulation is cut short at the time of the 5th seal, before the sun and moon darken in the 6th seal, and that's the moment when the white robes (glorified bodies) are given and then we see the entire glorified church standing in heaven, having come out of great tribulation that ended in the 5th seal, wearing white robes that are given in the 5th seal?

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: (6th seal!)

The only people dying as martyrs after the 5th seal are those who are beheaded refusing to worship the beast, aka "the rest of the woman's offspring" in Revelation 12 and 13, 14, and 20.

The martyrs of the church are told to wait to be avenged, not wait for white robes. They are GIVEN white robes.

AND AGAIN WE SEE REVELATIONS 20:4-6 telling us exactly who is part of the FIRST RESURRECTION those who did not worship the beast or take the mark. How is it you are surpassing the dead in Christ when Paul specifically states the dead in Christ rise FIRST

 

[LovedofHim]

Riddle me this???? I don't do riddles, but I will say the angel tells Daniel "Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end." so unless an angel has come to you personally and said daughter these words have become unsealed to you and you now have a complete understanding of them, I would be a little hesitant, because the book of Daniel has hundreds of interpretations all differing in one way or the other, so I wouldn't be so fast to say they have been unsealed

Guess what?! Here we stand at the very precipice of the time of the end and yes, I get it. I am open and willing to share. Everything is written right there for anyone to see. i'm not special but I am born of the Spirit and hear Him just like Christians should be.

Do you or do you not see that the great tribulation that followed the abomination of desolation lasts UNTIL THE TIME OF THE END according to Daniel 11? Neither began at the time of the end but the great tribulation is cut short at the time of the end, making it nearly 2000 years in length.

31And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
32And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
33And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
34Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries. 35And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.