The Rapture!

Lisa*Lisa

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This morning, I've been struggling with the rapture. Some very faithful prophets are saying it will be pre-tribulation, but the Bible says that those who endure to the end will be saved, and all of that. So confusing! Both the pre-trib camp and the post-trib camp have good points, that's why it's so confusing.

I prayed about it, and asked Jesus to help me understand. Then I got up and walked into the bedroom and laid down to watch the news. Then the thought popped into my head, the 144k will be raptured and that's it.

I'm like......huh? Did that come from my own mind, or was that from God? I dont' know! So, then I go back to my computer and google "who is the bride of christ" and it's the 144k from Israel, male virgins of pure blood line without spot.

Then I'm like........whoah! It sounds to me that only the 144k are taken to heaven, and the rest of us are going to stay here to endure till the end, and we will remain on earth afterwards too as we will be divinely protected during the wrath.

We are not part of the Bride, but part of the Great Multitude. That's the understanding that I got.

So, it appears that both camps are PARTLY right! The Bride will be raptured and the Great Multitude will remain on the earth, and protected by His hand, during the wrath of God.

What do you think about this? I honestly don't know!!

 

1whirlwind

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This morning, I've been struggling with the rapture. Some very faithful prophets are saying it will be pre-tribulation, but the Bible says that those who endure to the end will be saved, and all of that. So confusing! Both the pre-trib camp and the post-trib camp have good points, that's why it's so confusing.

I prayed about it, and asked Jesus to help me understand. Then I got up and walked into the bedroom and laid down to watch the news. Then the thought popped into my head, the 144k will be raptured and that's it.

I'm like......huh? Did that come from my own mind, or was that from God? I dont' know! So, then I go back to my computer and google "who is the bride of christ" and it's the 144k from Israel, male virgins of pure blood line without spot.

Then I'm like........whoah! It sounds to me that only the 144k are taken to heaven, and the rest of us are going to stay here to endure till the end, and we will remain on earth afterwards too as we will be divinely protected during the wrath.

We are not part of the Bride, but part of the Great Multitude. That's the understanding that I got.

So, it appears that both camps are PARTLY right! The Bride will be raptured and the Great Multitude will remain on the earth, and protected by His hand, during the wrath of God.

What do you think about this? I honestly don't know!!


Hi Lisa.

There are two groups of the 144,000 (those of the tribes and those from belief). They/we are the very elect, the saints and ALL escape the wrath of God and...it isn't a literal number. None of us, if we are still living, will escape the tribulation of Satan. It is our purpose in being born at this time.

Satan's tribulation is termed his "hour of temptation." We aren't tempted by him as we know who he is and that he arrives before the Savior but....he will be very, very deceiving! It is written that many will fall and those "many" are those that love Christ.

When Satan's hour ends...Christ arrives....those that haven't fallen to his deception are with Christ. The others will experience the wrath of the Lord.

The great multitude, I believe, are the righteous and good people of earth. They have been misled and therefore didn't remain faithful or weren't taught of Christ and His salvation but will be taught during the millennium. They are judged on their works...were they good people or evil?



.
 
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Lisa*Lisa

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Hi Lisa.

There are two groups of the 144,000 (those of the tribes and those from belief). They/we are the very elect, the saints and ALL escape the wrath of God and...it isn't a literal number. None of us, if we are still living, will escape the tribulation of Satan. It is our purpose in being born at this time.

Satan's tribulation is termed his "hour of temptation." We aren't tempted by him as we know who he is and that he arrives before the Savior but....he will be very, very deceiving! It is written that many will fall and those "many" are those that love Christ.

When Satan's hour ends...Christ arrives....those that haven't fallen to his deception are with Christ. The others will experience the wrath of the Lord.

The great multitude, I believe, are the righteous and good people of earth. They have been misled and therefore didn't remain faithful or weren't taught of Christ and His salvation but will be taught during the millennium. They are judged on their works...were they good people or evil?


.

Hi Friend!!!! :wave:

I don't get that from reading revelation tho, I get one group of 144k male virgins from Israel which I think is the Bride, and then a great multitude that no man can number that came out of the great tribulation, which I believe is all of the other believers that remained faithful to the end.

I've read it over and over again, that's exactly what I read.
 
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chalkstc

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All,

Two groups of all saints are taught in 1 tH 4 and 1 Cor 15. The dead in Christ whose bodies have decayed in the grave and the alive ones who endure to the end of the GT. Both groups are taken up via rapture to meet the Lord in the air after their change from corruption (dead ones) to incorruption and mortal (alive and remaining) to immortality.

The crux of the current ongoing debate is the when.....pretrib or post?

Frankie
 
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ivebeenshown

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The crux of the current ongoing debate is the when.....pretrib or post?
Why is there even any debate?

Matthew 24
29 “Immediately after the distress of those days
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’[b]
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
 
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chalkstc

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Why is there even any debate?

Matthew 24
29 “Immediately after the distress of those days “‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’[b]
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d]31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

I concurr. The SC/gathering is after the trib of those days.
 
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What do you think about this? I honestly don't know!!
Keep the faith, Lisa*Lisa.

Many of the details are unimportant. Just know that whosever calls upon the name of the LORD ...
Joel 2:1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
2A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.
3A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.
4The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run.
5Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.
6Before their face the people shall be much pained: all faces shall gather blackness.
7They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks:
8Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and when they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded.
9They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.
10The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
11And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?
12Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning:
13And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil.
14Who knoweth if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God?
15Blow the trumpet in Zion, sanctify a fast, call a solemn assembly:
16Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet.
17Let the priests, the ministers of the LORD, weep between the porch and the altar, and let them say, Spare thy people, O LORD, and give not thine heritage to reproach, that the heathen should rule over them: wherefore should they say among the people, Where is their God?
18Then will the LORD be jealous for his land, and pity his people.
19Yea, the LORD will answer and say unto his people, Behold, I will send you corn, and wine, and oil, and ye shall be satisfied therewith: and I will no more make you a reproach among the heathen:
20But I will remove far off from you the northern army, and will drive him into a land barren and desolate, with his face toward the east sea, and his hinder part toward the utmost sea, and his stink shall come up, and his ill savour shall come up, because he hath done great things.
21Fear not, O land; be glad and rejoice: for the LORD will do great things.
22Be not afraid, ye beasts of the field: for the pastures of the wilderness do spring, for the tree beareth her fruit, the fig tree and the vine do yield their strength.
23Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.
24And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the fats shall overflow with wine and oil.
25And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you.
26And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed.
27And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.
28And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
30And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
32And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.


.
 
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1whirlwind

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Hi Friend!!!! :wave:

I don't get that from reading revelation tho, I get one group of 144k male virgins from Israel which I think is the Bride, and then a great multitude that no man can number that came out of the great tribulation, which I believe is all of the other believers that remained faithful to the end.

I've read it over and over again, that's exactly what I read.



I too always believed the 144,000 was one group mentioned in two different scriptures. But...I no longer believe that. There is the wife and the bride. The wife are the 144,000 of the tribes of Israel....

Revelation 7:3-4 Saying, "Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads." And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the TRIBES OF THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL

Then we have the virgin bride....

Revelation 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever He goeth. These were REDEEMED from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
The virgins sing "a new song." [14:3] and the wife sings the
Song of Moses.


Revelation 14:3 And they sung as it were a NEW SONG before the throne, and before the four beasts and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the HUNDRED AND FORTY AND FOUR THOUSAND, which were REDEEMED FROM THE EARTH.
The Song of Moses, [Deu.32:1], is sung by the tribes and...it isn't a new song. There are two groups and those two groups are One Body....


Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

.
 
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Choose Wisely

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Why is there even any debate?

Matthew 24
29 “Immediately after the distress of those days “‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’[b]
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d]31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.


Probably because of the parable of the fig tree.
 
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Hear ye.........hear ye.............hear ye!!!!!!!!!

I am now going to speak many words of wisdom and truth!

I have finally figured this whole thing out!

The answer is this........














YOU CAN"T FIGURE IT OUT!!!!!!!!! NOBODY CAN!!!!!

END OF STORY! :wave: :wave::wave::wave::wave:


Is there going to be a rapture? Yes

Is there going to be a pre tribulation rapture? Yes

Can it be proved? Yes
 
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LovedofHim

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This morning, I've been struggling with the rapture. Some very faithful prophets are saying it will be pre-tribulation, but the Bible says that those who endure to the end will be saved, and all of that. So confusing! Both the pre-trib camp and the post-trib camp have good points, that's why it's so confusing.

I prayed about it, and asked Jesus to help me understand. Then I got up and walked into the bedroom and laid down to watch the news. Then the thought popped into my head, the 144k will be raptured and that's it.

I'm like......huh? Did that come from my own mind, or was that from God? I dont' know! So, then I go back to my computer and google "who is the bride of christ" and it's the 144k from Israel, male virgins of pure blood line without spot.

Then I'm like........whoah! It sounds to me that only the 144k are taken to heaven, and the rest of us are going to stay here to endure till the end, and we will remain on earth afterwards too as we will be divinely protected during the wrath.

We are not part of the Bride, but part of the Great Multitude. That's the understanding that I got.

So, it appears that both camps are PARTLY right! The Bride will be raptured and the Great Multitude will remain on the earth, and protected by His hand, during the wrath of God.

What do you think about this? I honestly don't know!!

When you read Revelation 7, where are the 144,000 of Israel sealed? Where is the great multitude standing?

Revelation 6, 7, 8, and 9 all have things in them that show you the timing of events.

Allow me to show you something cool:


Rev 7: 2And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. 4And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.


Rev 8:

6And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
7The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up. 8And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;

So, based on what you see, when are the 144,000 of Israel sealed?

Now, there's more in regards to the 144,000 of Israel who are sealed in their foreheads:

Revelation 9


1And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. (devil/antichrist/false prophet empowered)
2And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. 4And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

Who can the devil's "locusts" NOT hurt? Who is it that is protected from the devil during the 5th trumpet of the 7th seal?

Now, you should understand the who the 144,000 of Israel in Revelation 7 are and where they stand while the antichrist is here.

The same thing can be done with the great multitude of Revelation 7.

I'll show you if you are interested.
 
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LovedofHim

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Ah......I'm just throwing in the towel as far as trying to understand when the rapture is going to happen.

I"m going to focus on easy stuff, like don't lie, don't steal and don't kill people........cause that I can understand!;)

So, you didn't see what is written there? Did anybody else see it?
 
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Hi Lisa,

Do you want to know the truth? Then do not listen to anyone.

I've been struggling with the rapture. Some very faithful prophets are saying it will be pre-tribulation, but the Bible says that those who endure to the end will be saved, and all of that. So confusing! Both the pre-trib camp and the post-trib camp have good points, that's why it's so confusing.
Yes, you are right that is why it's so confusing. We are in the final day and it is heavy with the spirit of antichrist and full of deceivers.
Dont believe me. Read 1Jn2:18,22 1Jn4:3 2John1:7

You do not need "very faithful prophets" to tell you what Jesus has written.
Do not let anyone tell you 'it does not matter' what you believe. Because it does matter very much.

One is truth and one is not. And you CAN figure it out.
And you MUST figure it out. It must be settled in your heart. And when it is, you will know the deception.
God is faithful to you and already showed you the answer to your question.

I'm like......huh? Did that come from my own mind, or was that from God? I dont' know! So, then I go back to my computer and google "who is the bride of christ" and it's the 144k from Israel, male virgins of pure blood line without spot.
Then I'm like........whoah! It sounds to me that only the 144k are taken to heaven, and the rest of us are going to stay here to endure till the end, and we will remain on earth afterwards too as we will be divinely protected during the wrath.

We are not part of the Bride, but part of the Great Multitude. That's the understanding that I got.
Listen to that small voice you know. He tells you the truth.
The 144k are the bride. Virgins of pure blood line without spot. Redeemed from the earth before. They stand on the mount Sion with the Lamb in heaven. They are servants.
They serve as the new Jerusalem, the Holy City.
Rev21
2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
9And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

And yes the multitude are washed in the blood of the Lamb.
Those who endure til the end whether you die or live, just like the Word sais and no one else.

The Church, His body. He is the head. The husband will be fitted with His body. Do you raise part of your body out of bed in the morning or all of it?

Eph.5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Col.1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

Don't worry Lisa its a bit of a mystery. God answered you and He will show you the truth Himself.

So, it appears that both camps are PARTLY right! The Bride will be raptured and the Great Multitude will remain on the earth, and protected by His hand, during the wrath of God.
Appearances are deceiving. Partly right is partly a lie. Does it say they are 'raptured' to heaven or redeemed of the earth and redeemed from among men and are on mount Sion in heaven and follow the Lamb where ever He goes.

Does He say he who endures til the end? Does He say we are not appointed to wrath? Believe Him.

Stick to the basics as you say. If you want to read the Revelation always start at the beginning and read the letters to the Churches first.
 
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