Debate-For MJ's Only The rapture - what happens, and when?

[chunkofcoal]

"Asleep" like Yeshua said of Lazarus when asked.

If people are "asleep" until the resurrection/rapture, then when does this take place? -
Heb 10:19-20 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, (20) By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

I know some people believe that everyone will be raptured (resurrected?) and taken to heaven but I lean toward the destination as being Jerusalem.

 

[Laureate]

WADR, if I misunderstood you, it is not because I lack comprehension skills, but because you do not speak clearly. I should not have to spend hours racking my brain trying to figure out what you are saying when you have the ability to make yourself clear.

When I express the same before another audience, and they have no problem comprehending what I say, then I can only assume our vocabulary's are in part predicated on our accumulative knowledge, as in those who have, more is given unto them to have, in layman's terms, it takes some, to get some.

The best we can do is pray that each other continues to grow in the Word, and Spirit, till we (not one) reach that pure vocabulary, that will permit us to see eye to eye.

 

[visionary]

If people are "asleep" until the resurrection/rapture, then when does this take place? -
Heb 10:19-20 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, (20) By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

I know some people believe that everyone will be raptured (resurrected?) and taken to heaven but I lean toward the destination as being Jerusalem.

Why would you think this verse has anything to do with death. That verse has to do with the temple services and Yeshua as our Holy High Priest.

 

[chunkofcoal]

Why would you think this verse has anything to do with death. That verse has to do with the temple services and Yeshua as our Holy High Priest.

Yes, but the heavenly temple, not the earthly temple.So when do, when can, believers enter the heavenly temple?

 

[visionary]

Yes, but the heavenly temple, not the earthly temple.So when do, when can, believers enter the heavenly temple?

Come hither.... Do you mean physically or spiritually or in vision?

 

[chunkofcoal]

Come hither.... Do you mean physically or spiritually or in vision?

When God says "Come Hither" you go how ever God wants you to.
So then if everyone dies and goes to sleep, like before Yeshua, then nothing about death, dying, or the dead changed because of Yeshua? And it's all in the future?

 

[visionary]

When God says "Come Hither" you go how ever God wants you to.
So then if everyone dies and goes to sleep, like before Yeshua, then nothing about death, dying, or the dead changed because of Yeshua? And it's all in the future?

Ever study "slept" "asleep" in scripture? Yeshua did state Lazarus was asleep. I am not going to argue with Him. He also said that in the end, He will resurrect us. Yes, nothing about death or dying has changed before during or after Yeshua. As Revelation says, it is the last thing to go in the lake of fire.

 

[visionary]

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

John 11:25 KJV

Shall is future.

 

[chunkofcoal]

Ever study "slept" "asleep" in scripture? Yeshua did state Lazarus was asleep. I am not going to argue with Him. He also said that in the end, He will resurrect us. Yes, nothing about death or dying has changed before during or after Yeshua. As Revelation says, it is the last thing to go in the lake of fire.

So do believers sleep, and the unjust go to 'prison'?
1Pe 3:18-20 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: (19) By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; (20) Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

 

[visionary]

So do believers sleep, and the unjust go to 'prison'?
1Pe 3:18-20 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: (19) By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; (20) Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Would you say the possessed of a legion were in prison?

 

[chunkofcoal]

Would you say the possessed of a legion were in prison?

Yes, in a way. But the one who was possessed wasn't dead or asleep. The quote in 1Peter is about those who died in the flood.

 

[visionary]

Yes, in a way. But the one who was possessed wasn't dead or asleep. The quote in 1Peter is about those who died in the flood.

Read again, because it was the people before they died in the flood.

 

[Laureate]

Yes, but the heavenly temple, not the earthly temple.So when do, when can, believers enter the heavenly temple?

Are you referring to Isaiah 2, which is duplicated in Mica 4, which also pertains to the Kingdom Come?

Otherwise we are the Heavenly Temple, and made anew in the resurrection.

So many seem to be disappointed when I point out to them that our paradise destination is here On Earth which sits in the midst of Heaven.

 

[chunkofcoal]

Read again, because it was the people before they died in the flood.

I guess it could be read that way. But does that mean the earth is a prison, or that their souls were imprisoned?

 

[chunkofcoal]

Are you referring to Isaiah 2, which is duplicated in Mica 4, which also pertains to the Kingdom Come?

Otherwise we are the Heavenly Temple, and made anew in the resurrection.

So many seem to be disappointed when I point out to them that our paradise destination is here On Earth which sits in the midst of Heaven.

No, I was referring to the Heavenly Temple mentioned in Hebrews 10 - the one Yeshua entered into.

I lean toward the idea that the destination at the rapture is Jerusalem but there are a lot of differing opinions about that.
So do you also think we 'sleep' until the resurrection?
Visionary mentioned in a post that Yeshua said Lazarus was "asleep" and He did but also:
Joh 11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

He said plainly that Lazarus was "dead" and if nothing about death or dying changed because of Yeshua, then when we die, we are dead, until we get resurrected.

 

[Laureate]

No, I was referring to the Heavenly Temple mentioned in Hebrews 10 - the one Yeshua entered into.

I lean toward the idea that the destination at the rapture is Jerusalem but there are a lot of differing opinions about that.
So do you also think we 'sleep' until the resurrection?
Visionary mentioned in a post that Yeshua said Lazarus was "asleep" and He did but also:
Joh 11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

He said plainly that Lazarus was "dead" and if nothing about death or dying changed because of Yeshua, then when we die, we are dead, until we get resurrected.

Where do you suppose Abvraham is now? Asleep, Awake, in Heaven, in the sea?

Because we know he is not Dead, yet he is in a place where he can communicate with those who are being tormented.

When you reconcile all of the pertinent info, and clean up some of the miss conceptions, you will realize that torment, wailing and gnashing of teeth only occurs here on earth, and those who walk in the dark are asleep, i.e., resurrected beings who are not aware that have risen from ancestral tombs.

To say, It is Appointed for every man to die once, then comes the resurrection, does not mean a person can not die more than once, it means that Within the dispensation of a World, it is appointed for every man to die, at least once.

The World we Live in now, is not the same world Adam inherited, neither is it the same world Noah inherited, for all we know, Noah was Adam or Seth who resurrected at the end of that world.

Yet I ask where is Abvraham?

 

[visionary]

Genesis 25 The Death of Abraham There Abraham was buried with his wife Sarah.

 

[chunkofcoal]

Genesis 25 The Death of Abraham There Abraham was buried with his wife Sarah.

And yet Yeshua said:
But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
(Mat 22:31-32)

 

[Laureate]

"Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that you have a devil. Abvraham is dead, and the prophets; and your saying, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.

Are you greater than our father Abvraham, who is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom do you make yourself out to be?" [John 8:52-53]

"But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have you not read that which was spoken unto you by Alôhâyîm, saying,

I am the Alôhâ of Abvraham, and the Alôhâ of Isaac, and the Alôhâ of Jacob? Alôhâyîm is not the Alôhâ of the dead, but of the living." [Matthew 22:31-32]

Father Abvraham was alive then, and he walks amongst us today, that is if you believe these are the Last days, I do.

"And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abvraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." [Matthew 8:11-12]

"Your dead shall live, they shall raise my Dead Body. Awake and sing, you who dwells in the עפר Dust: for your dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall Cast out the Dead." [Isaiah 26:19]

The word Dust here infers Adam (Mankind).

"Honestly I am telling you the truth, The Hour (which No Man Knows) shall come As It Is Now, when the Dead shall hear the Voice of the Son of Adam: and they that hear shall live." [John 5:25]

"Marvel not at this: for the Hour is coming, in the which everyone who is in their graves shall hear his Voice,

And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the Resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the Resurrection of damnation." [John 5:28-29]

Wailing and gnashing of teeth only occurs here on earth amongst the living dead.

Carefully note how the Judgement (received) does not occur until after the Resurrection.

 

[Laureate]

"For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send מלאכי My Angel-Messenger before your face, who shall prepare your way before you..

And if you will receive it, this is Elijah, who was expected to come. Whosoever has ears to hear, let them hear." [Matthew 11:10, and 14-15]

Evidently many still have not accepted that John was the Elijah expected to Come, saying, Oh John was not Elijah, he just came in the Spirit of Elijah.

That entire generation Resurrected to receive Judgement, and though there was leniency for the Babes who knew not what they were doing, Judgement was served, for John who was Adam (Mankind) was beheaded, and (Î)yésʰûʷəʰ (who is the head of Adam) was crucified, for he is 'Seth' the (only begotten) Son of Adam (definitively, Mankind) who begot Enos (Mankind).

Try to stick with the script, precept upon precept, and avoid the many popular beliefs construed from assumption.