The Rapture theory is true?

[Freedm]

Let's be very clear: NO WHERE in scripture is the word "resurrection" used for anything spiritual. It means a dead BODY is raised. As I said, if you can find where the word "resurrection" is used in scripture for anything spiritual, you have something to stand on. I cannot find such a use.

And where is the word "rapture" used in scripture? Nowhere, to be sure, but you believe it is described, do you not? So just as the word rapture does not need to be used in order to describe a rapture, I don't believe the word resurrection needs to be used in order to describe a resurrection.

Furthermore, the word "resurrection" itself is defined as a "coming to life", "a revival", or "rising from decay" by both Merriam Webster and dictionary.com, so by what criteria do you restrict a resurrection to a physical body coming to life from physical death?

 

[iamlamad]

Not at all. Obviously Jesus was resurrected physically. That's the whole point of our faith.

My point is that, through Christ's physical death and resurrection, and our belief in him, we have experienced a spiritual death and resurrection. And this is the first resurrection, because Jesus said unless a man is born again he can not enter into the kingdom of heaven, making this spiritual resurrection a pre-requisite to the rewards of the final resurrection.

Except the bible does not use that word "resurrection" in any spiritual way. Why not just use bible terms: "Born again" or "regeneration."

 

[iamlamad]

The last day in their view was from the OT Word of God. It was the Cross. Martha was talking about the resurrection on the Cross when all OT believers where physically raised from death, sheol. They were given incorruptible bodies and allowed into Paradise. That was the last day for any readers of the OT. The last day for the church in the NT is the opening of the 6th seal. The thief in the night event that ends the church, or age, prepared or not. There is no lead up to it like the Palm Sunday event of the Cross. Nor did OT believers worry about missing the event. They were waiting for it to change their lives, not leave them behind. Who is left on earth after the rapture will not be the church. It will be a harlot who thought they were "a church".

Sorry, but Martha had NO IDEA of the cross at that time. She was talking about DEAD BODIES raised. At that point in time, all those who followed Jesus thought He was be the Messiah they had in mind that would restore the physical kingdom back to the Jews. Peter said as much and Jesus rebuked him.

The thing is, YOU CAN'T FIND what you are saying in scripture. There is ONE VERSE, and that verse says "many." You can wish for more, but it is not coming. The general day of resurrection for THEM - the OT saints - is exactly as Mary and Martha believed: "on the last day." And that would be on the last day of the 70th week and that would be at the 7th vial. Did you not notice that at the 7th vial the world's worst earthquake hit? That is when God will raise up those from before the flood. God will shake the earth violently to raise those bodies dead so long.

Note: because of what Matthew wrote in chapter 27: "the earth did quake...and the graves were opened..." we know that when God raises dead bodies, that raising will CAUSE a great earthquake - exactly as happened in Jerusalem and surrounding areas when Jesus raised the elders.

Hint: want to find the rapture in Revelation? Look for the first great earthquake.

 

[Freedm]

Except the bible does not use that word "resurrection" in any spiritual way. Why not just use bible terms: "Born again" or "regeneration."

Because the Bible is drawing a parallel between a physical coming to life and a spiritual rebirth in a way that we can understand, by using the same terminology for both in Revelation 20.

And as I pointed out in my other post, a resurrection can be described (In Galatians 2 and Romans 6) without using the word "resurrection", just as a rapture can be described (In 1 Thessalonians 4) without using the word "rapture".

 

[iamlamad]

And where is the word "rapture" used in scripture? Nowhere, to be sure, but you believe it is described, do you not? So just as the word rapture does not need to be used in order to describe a rapture, I don't believe the word resurrection needs to be used in order to describe a resurrection.

Furthermore, the word "resurrection" itself is defined as a "coming to life", "a revival", or "rising from decay" by both Merriam Webster and dictionary.com, so by what criteria do you restrict a resurrection to a physical body coming to life from physical death?

If you read Latin, Rapture is certainly in the scripture; 1 Thes. 4:17. It is for the "catching up."

Just find ONE INSTANCE of the English word "resurrection" being used in a spiritual way. That is, IF indeed there is such a scripture. I have never found it. God used "born again" and "regeneration."

The GReek word is anastasis. It is a compound word. The last part, stasis" is where we get our word stationary and in standing but not moving.
Anastasis comes from the root word, anistēmi again a compound word: Ana and histēmi .
Histemi means "to stand."

In short, Resurrection means go from a horizontal position to a standing position - be RAISED.
In the KJV it was used 39 times as a physical raising of a dead body, "resurrection;" one time as "rising again," one time "that should rise" and 1 time as 'raised to life again."

It is not used anywhere in scripture that I have ever found as a spiritual rising from being separated from God to being connected back to God as in being born again.

Then again, when we are dead to God, a sinner, our spirit is not dead - it is only separated from God. "Death" to God is never a ceasing to exist - it is always a separation. When Adam sinned and died instantly in spirit, it was His spirit suddenly being SEPARATED from God.

When a human dies, He or she does not cease to exist: what happens is he Spirit with the soul SEPARATES from the body. In eternal death, a human is eternally separated from God.

In other words, the word resurrection only fits PHYSICAL dead being raised physically, from horizontal to vertical standing.

 

[iamlamad]

Because the Bible is drawing a parallel between a physical coming to life and a spiritual rebirth in a way that we can understand, by using the same terminology for both in Revelation 20.

And as I pointed out in my other post, a resurrection can be described (In Galatians 2 and Romans 6) without using the word "resurrection", just as a rapture can be described (In 1 Thessalonians 4) without using the word "rapture".

Sorry, but in Reveltion 20 John is speaking of PHYSICAL resurrections. Any other theory is myth.
The rapture is a catching up, and the Latin word for that catching up was translated to rapture.

A better word for your argument would be "trinity." it is not a bible word, but it describes what we believe about God.

Question: why do you fight so hard NOT to believe Rev. 20 as it is written - as a physical resurrection? Do you imagine that idea conflicts with other scriptures? If so, WHAT other scriptures.

Get the picture John saw before he wrote "resurrection." He saw resurrected people seated on thrones judging. He saw the beheaded resurrected and serving with Jesus. John saw the physically DEAD back to being alive. (Now one will be beheaded spiritually! It is speaking of PHYSICAL). The entire chapter's theme is people dead physically being raised physically. Trying to put a twist on it is just not wise.

 

[iamlamad]

duplicate

 

[iamlamad]

Revelation 22 indeed tells us that there will be no more night, so whether we consider that to be the last day, an everlasting day, or something that is not defined as a day but comes after the last day is irrelevant. Either way, our eternity begins at the last day.

Revelation 22:5
There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.

Regardless of that, in reading your explanation it seems clear that your understanding rests entirely on the requirement that the first resurrection is a physical resurrection, and that those who take part in the first do not take part in the second. That's essentially the only place where we disagree, because everything else flows from how we understand the first resurrection.

Your understanding of the first resurrection requires you to believe that there are more days after the last day Jesus spoke of, and it requires you to believe that we do not partake in the second. It also makes the two verses below difficult for you to explain as they seem to be speaking of a single resurrection in a single hour.

My understanding of the first resurrection allows me to read "the last day" as simply that, and leave it exactly the way Jesus said it. Literally the last day. It also allows me to read the following two verses exactly as they are, and understand them to say exactly what they say.

Acts 24:15
and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

John 5:28-29
“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”

In other words, my understanding causes a lot less friction with the rest of scripture, and as you say we should not form doctrine on a single verse but our understanding should be harmonized with the whole of scripture.

Again, I challenge you to consider that our crucifixion with Jesus and our subsequent coming to new life in Him, as Paul described in both Galatians 2 and Romans 6, is a type of resurrection.

I challenge you to find ONE PLACE in scripture where the English word "resurrection" and the Greek word behind it is used in any spiritual sense. It simply cannot be found. God's use of the word Resurrection is speaking of physical dead people being raised from the dead.

NOte, "the hour is coming" sounds as if all the graves come out in one hour. Again, the Greek word behind "hour" is also translated as a season. I still think it is better to consider those verses as a manner of speaking back then. NO ONE back then (except maybe Jesus) knew there were to one resurrection for the righteous and then a thousand years later another resurrection for the damned. They did not have the book of Revelation as we do.

 

[Timtofly]

Not at all. Obviously Jesus was resurrected physically. That's the whole point of our faith.

My point is that, through Christ's physical death and resurrection, and our belief in him, we have experienced a spiritual death and resurrection. And this is the first resurrection, because Jesus said unless a man is born again he can not enter into the kingdom of heaven, making this spiritual resurrection a pre-requisite to the rewards of the final resurrection.

Calling it the first resurrection does not make it the first resurrection. There is no final resurrection. The only resurrection for those in Christ is the resurrection of Christ Himself.

 

[Gifts From Above]

The meaning of the phrase “last day” really is not complex. The last day is the final day of this age when Christ returns to judge the nations. There is no rapture beforehand.

 

[Timtofly]

The "all" is imagination because it is not found anywhere in scripture.

No, when Jesus took captivity captive and rescued those in Abraham's bosom, He took ALL of them to heaven, but that does not mean they were all resurrected: they were just RESCUED from Hades in their spirit form and taken to heaven in their spirit form.

Just so you know, people in this age who have been to heaven and allowed to come back and testify, have noticed SOME OT saints in heaven who have their resurrection body - Abraham being one. But the rest of the OT saints are still in spirit form awaiting resurrection. Their resurrection will be on the last day of the 70th week - the day that will END the Jewish age.

NO believer has had to go to Hades since Jesus rose from the dead. That place is EMPTY. No, as Paul has written, we go to be with the Lord when our body dies. So your thinking is just off.

Paul also says we leave this body here on earth and get a new body at death. The resurrection was already covered in Christ.

What people say of Paradise is not Scripture. If they are all raised, they all have their new incorruptible body in Paradise. Abraham was not even buried in Jerusalem.

 

[Timtofly]

Sorry, but Martha had NO IDEA of the cross at that time. She was talking about DEAD BODIES raised. At that point in time, all those who followed Jesus thought He was be the Messiah they had in mind that would restore the physical kingdom back to the Jews. Peter said as much and Jesus rebuked him.

The thing is, YOU CAN'T FIND what you are saying in scripture. There is ONE VERSE, and that verse says "many." You can wish for more, but it is not coming. The general day of resurrection for THEM - the OT saints - is exactly as Mary and Martha believed: "on the last day." And that would be on the last day of the 70th week and that would be at the 7th vial. Did you not notice that at the 7th vial the world's worst earthquake hit? That is when God will raise up those from before the flood. God will shake the earth violently to raise those bodies dead so long.

Note: because of what Matthew wrote in chapter 27: "the earth did quake...and the graves were opened..." we know that when God raises dead bodies, that raising will CAUSE a great earthquake - exactly as happened in Jerusalem and surrounding areas when Jesus raised the elders.

Hint: want to find the rapture in Revelation? Look for the first great earthquake.

She definitely was not talking about the Second Coming either. Sorry but the Cross was the last day even if no one knew it. No one knows when the Second Coming and rapture of the church happens either. There are many attempts at guessing though.

You do not make sense. All are resurrected or none have been. You are splitting the church up into different resurrection groups. They left Abraham's bosom and received incorruptible bodies. If this is not the case, why did Paul claim there is a permanent building in Paradise in comparison to the tent of this physical body? Two different types of bodies. Incorruptible and corruptible. Corruptible body dies on earth. Incorruptible body last forever in Paradise.

 

[iamlamad]

The meaning of the phrase “last day” really is not complex. The last day is the final day of this age when Christ returns to judge the nations. There is no rapture beforehand.

It is a theory; but it does not agree with Paul who is the only writer of the NT that received a revelation of the rapture. Paul tells us HIS rapture / gathering will come JUST (a moment) before the start of God's wrath - and we can easily find that in Revelation at the 6th seal - the start of the DAY of His wrath. This is confirmed when John then SAW the raptured church in the throne room in chapter 7.

Sorry, but your theory does not agree with the written word.
Last day must be qualified, for there will be more than one:
First will be the last day of the church age - which will end at the rapture.
Next will be the last day of the 70th week or the Jewish age (7th vial)
Next will be the last day of the 1000 year reign of Christ.

 

[Gifts From Above]

It is a theory; but it does not agree with Paul who is the only writer of the NT that received a revelation of the rapture. Paul tells us HIS rapture / gathering will come JUST (a moment) before the start of God's wrath - and we can easily find that in Revelation at the 6th seal - the start of the DAY of His wrath. This is confirmed when John then SAW the raptured church in the throne room in chapter 7.

Sorry, but your theory does not agree with the written word.
Last day must be qualified, for there will be more than one:
First will be the last day of the church age - which will end at the rapture.
Next will be the last day of the 70th week or the Jewish age (7th vial)
Next will be the last day of the 1000 year reign of Christ.

No, this is shear confusion. Christ second coming occurs at the last day. The judgement and rapture happen at that point. This is made clear by all of scripture. Paul’s writings in no way contradict this.

 

[iamlamad]

She definitely was not talking about the Second Coming either. Sorry but the Cross was the last day even if no one knew it. No one knows when the Second Coming and rapture of the church happens either. There are many attempts at guessing though.

You do not make sense. All are resurrected or none have been. You are splitting the church up into different resurrection groups. They left Abraham's bosom and received incorruptible bodies. If this is not the case, why did Paul claim there is a permanent building in Paradise in comparison to the tent of this physical body? Two different types of bodies. Incorruptible and corruptible. Corruptible body dies on earth. Incorruptible body last forever in Paradise.

She definitely was not talking about the Second Coming They had a believe that their Messiah would come and establish an earthly kingdom. Since Jesus had not died and then ascended she would not have known of a "second" coming. Good point.

Sorry but the Cross was the last day even if no one knew it. It was the last day of Jesus alive and walking around in a natural physical body - that is for sure. That is the only "last day" I an associate with the cross. What else do you have in mind?

No one knows when the Second Coming and rapture of the church happens either. This I can agree with! Good job! But then, no one will know the day or hour of His 3rd coming with His saints to Armageddon either - except they will know it will be "after the tribulation of those days."

All are resurrected or none have been. This is simply not true: JESUS as firstfruits has been resurrected. Just the name FIRSTfruits tells us their will be others to follow.

Why would you come up with such an idea? What scripture could give someone such an idea?

You are splitting the church up into different resurrection groups. I am only following the written word of God. I suggest you do the same.
Jesus rose from the dead long ago. (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) CHECK!
The day is coming soon when the Bride of Christ will rise, pretrib. (1 Thes. 4 & Rev. 7) CHECK!
AFter that, somehow, the 144,000 show up in heaven with resurrection bodies. (Rev. 14) CHECK!

Then at the end of the 70th week, the OT saints rise, along with the Two Witnesses and the beheaded. This is proven by Rev. 20. CHECK!

So it was JOHN that "split" the church. I don't think he did. Is the "Church" and the "bride" the same thing? I don't think so, but perhaps they are. It will be the bride caught up in the rapture. Many people who go to "church" will be left behind because they never got born again. Many people that call themselves "Christian" will be left behind. Some and hopefully most of these will be beheaded and will be caught up or resurrected at the end of the week - or "on the last day" as some like to say.

They left Abraham's bosom and received incorruptible bodies. That would not be the church. That would be the OT saints. From the moment Jesus rose from the dead, all who die "In Christ" go to heaven. You must understand, NONE of the OT saints were "In Christ" for He had not come yet.

permanent building in Paradise
5 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

Without a doubt, Paul is talking about our resurrection body. This body will not be available to us until resurrection day for the church. When we die, only our spirit and soul go to heaven. Our body goes back to dust. But one day, when the rapture comes, the Bride of Christ will receive resurrection bodies, which is what Paul is talking about here.

Two different types of bodies. Incorruptible and corruptible. Corruptible body dies on earth. Incorruptible body last forever in Paradise. Agreed: but we must wait for the rapture for this to take place.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Except the bible does not use that word "resurrection" in any spiritual way. Why not just use bible terms: "Born again" or "regeneration."

I wish you could see how weak your argument is. Do you refer to being caught up to meet the Lord in the air as "the rapture"? I'm sure you do. Should I tell you that you shouldn't use that term since the Bible doesn't and that you should refer to the catching up or the gathering instead? That wouldn't be reasonable, right? You trying to tell us that we can't call going from being spiritually dead in sins to spiritually alive in Christ a resurrection is the same kind of thing.

The concept of being raised up or resurrected from being dead in sins to spiritually alive in Christ can be found in many passages of scripture. Including this one:

Ephesians 2:4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

Are you going to try to say that God RAISING US UP from being dead in sins to alive in Christ is not a resurrection? What else do the words "raise up" mean? Doesn't the word resurrection refer to being RAISED UP from death to life? Of course it does. Your insistence that it can only refer to bodily resurrection is baseless.

 

[iamlamad]

No, this is shear confusion. Christ second coming occurs at the last day. The judgement and rapture happen at that point. This is made clear by all of scripture. Paul’s writings in no way contradict this.

OK, so us a scripture to prove what you say. I believe Christ's NEXT coming will be Paul's rapture coming. If you study 1 Thes. 5, Paul gives TIMING information. His gathering will be just before wrath. No confusion, but in a way you are right, it WILL BE the "last day" of the church age or the dispensation of Grace given to Paul for the Gentiles. I agree, we must look at ALL end time passages. Many people read of the elect being gathered in Matthew 24 and for some reason imagine it is Paul's rapture. It is not, and will happen over 7 years after Paul's rapture.

Notice the 6th seal: the DAY of His wrath has come. Then we SEE His wrath in each of the trumpet judgments. Judgment begins with the trumpet judgments. And that, my friend, is LONG before His coming to Armageddon as shown in chapter 19. Then there is that large group, too large to number: the raptured church seen in heaven before any part of the 70th week.

Question: WHY would Paul mention "the Day of the Lord" just three verses after his classic rapture verse - UNLESS the Day of the Lord was to quickly follow the rapture?

WHY would Paul mention wrath in association with the rapture UNLESS wrath was to follow the rapture? If people really understood Paul, two groups of people get two different results at one moment in time: those in Christ get raptured and get to "live together with Him," while at the same time, those left behind get "sudden destruction."

Ever wonder what the "sudden destruction" was or will be? It is going to be the worldwide earthquake caused when God raises the dead in Christ. It is going to be a worldwide earthquake. You find that earthquake at the 6th seal, just before wrath - exactly what Paul tells us. The rapture will be the trigger for the Day of the Lord: the age of grace ends - and the next moment it is the Day of the Lord - no time between.

 

[iamlamad]

I wish you could see how weak your argument is. Do you refer to being caught up to meet the Lord in the air as "the rapture"? I'm sure you do. Should I tell you that you shouldn't use that term since the Bible doesn't and that you should refer to the catching up or the gathering instead? That wouldn't be reasonable, right? You trying to tell us that we can't call going from being spiritually dead in sins to spiritually alive in Christ a resurrection is the same kind of thing.

The concept of being raised up or resurrected from being dead in sins to spiritually alive in Christ can be found in many passages of scripture. Including this one:

Ephesians 2:4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

Are you going to try to say that God RAISING US UP from being dead in sins to alive in Christ is not a resurrection? What else do the words "raise up" mean? Doesn't the word resurrection refer to being RAISED UP from death to life? Of course it does. Your insistence that it can only refer to bodily resurrection is baseless.

Do you refer to being caught up to meet the Lord in the air as "the rapture"? Of course I do: the church world does, for the most part. If it was good enough for most of the translators, I am OK with that title.

Should I tell you that you shouldn't use that term since the Bible doesn't This is just more of your myths. I don't buy it. Anyone reading and understanding the Latin New Testament would find that word - or the root word for "rapture." "Raptured" is also used in the AMP version.

All I am asking is you show where the BIBLE uses "resurrection" in the same way you WANT to use it. Don't point to Rev, 20.

You would have some basis for this if any English translators used "resurrection" for something spiritual. They did not.

 

[BABerean2]

You would have some basis for this if any English translators used "resurrection" for something spiritual. They did not.

Was there ever a time in your life when you were spiritually dead?


John 5:24

(ESV) Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

(ESV+) Truly, truly, I say to you, R18whoever hears my word and R19believes him who sent me has eternal life. He R20does not come into judgment, but R21has passed from death to life.

(Geneva) Verely, verely I say vnto you, he that heareth my worde, and beleeueth him that sent me, hath euerlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation, but hath passed from death vnto life.

(GW) I can guarantee this truth: Those who listen to what I say and believe in the one who sent me will have eternal life. They won't be judged because they have already passed from death to life.

(KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

(KJV+) Verily,G281 verily,G281 I sayG3004 unto you,G5213 (G3754) He that hearethG191 myG3450 word,G3056 andG2532 believethG4100 on him that sentG3992 me,G3165 hathG2192 everlastingG166 life,G2222 andG2532 shall notG3756 comeG2064 intoG1519 condemnation;G2920 butG235 is passedG3327 fromG1537 deathG2288 untoG1519 life.G2222

(NKJV) "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

(YLT) 'Verily, verily, I say to you—He who is hearing my word, and is believing Him who sent me, hath life age-during, and to judgment he doth not come, but hath passed out of the death to the life.


.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

The day is coming soon when the Bride of Christ will rise, pretrib. (1 Thes. 4 & Rev. 7) CHECK!

How can it be pretrib in light of this:

Matthew 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. 2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: 4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. 6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. 7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. 9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. 11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. 12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. 13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

This is a parable that symbolically describes the Bride of Christ going to meet the Bridegroom (Christ). It's reminiscent of 1 Thess 4:13-17. Notice that this is speaking of the coming of Christ of which no one knows the day or hour. He spoke about the same event earlier.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. 32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. 35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Matthew 24:29-36 and Matthew 25:1-13 are clearly speaking of the same event, namely the second coming of Christ. Both passages indicate that on that day His people will be gathered to Him and both passages point out that no one knows the day or hour it will happen. And Jesus made it very clear that He will come AFTER the tribulation of those days.

I can't understand at all how anyone can look at those 2 passages and conclude that He is coming for His bride BEFORE "the tribulation of those days" when Jesus specifically indicated that He will come for His bride AFTER "the tribulation of those days".