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The Rapture IS NOT literal.

May 26, 2012
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The Rapture

Escape

It’s human nature, whenever we have gotten ourselves in a tight spot, to look for an easy way out of our troubles. Some people, when they are down to their last dollar, will spend it on a lottery ticket, hoping to be magically rescued from their financial trouble. The real tragedy of this kind of escape is that the person who seeks such escape often misses opportunities to find happiness because they are simply waiting for their troubles to end. Some people look forward to "the Rapture" in a similar way. They expect that at any moment Christ will appear in the clouds and instantly whisk every believer out of the troubles they face in every day life, to be with Jesus up in the sky. While we may look forward to being with Jesus, it would be a shame if we missed the real presence of Jesus in our lives because we are expecting His coming to be a meteorological event.

What Kind of Kingdom?

When Jesus began His healing ministry, people gradually realized that He was the Messiah, and they hoped that He would set everything straight in their world. But when they tried to make Him a political king, He slipped away from them (John 6:15). They expected Christ to set up His kingdom in this world. When Jesus spoke of His kingdom, people assumed that he was going to be a political opponent of Caesar (Luke 23:2; John 19:12,15). Pilate asked him about this, and Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here" (John 18:36). Jesus was not interested in fighting a political battle to gain a worldly kingdom, but He did fight a spiritual battle to establish a heavenly kingdom (John 6:15; Luke 22:49; Matthew 26:52). As Paul said later, "We do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, and against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places" (Ephesians 6:12).

In our normal language, we realize that "heaven" or "heavens" can mean either the sky we see above us or the place we will live after death. When we talk about the "birds in the heavens" or the "stars of the heavens" we generally mean the birds and stars in the sky we can see. But when we talk about "the kingdom of heaven" or "our Father in heaven" we are talking about a heaven that we cannot see—it is invisible to the eyes of our body but visible to the eyes of our spirit. So when Jesus spoke of His Coming, He told us not to expect to see it as a physical or political event. He said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you" (Luke 17:20, 21). If the kingdom of heaven is within us, then where are the "clouds of heaven"?

The Clouds of Heaven

Jesus promised that His disciples would see Him coming in the clouds of heaven (Matthew 24:30, 26:64; Mark 14:6; Luke 21.27; Revelation 1:7; compare 2 Philippians 3:20; 2 Thessalonians 1:7). Some take this literally to mean that Jesus will appear up in the sky. When the Bible speaks of "the clouds of heaven" it sometimes means the clouds we see up in the sky. For example, when "heaven was black with clouds and wind, and there was a great rain" that came down on Ahab (2 Kings 18:44-45), we can picture the kind of storm many of us have experienced.

But in many other cases, "the heavens" and "the clouds of heaven" are meant as metaphors for things that are spiritual and heavenly, or things that are in our minds, not part of this physical universe. So when the Bible says that God is covered with a cloud, so that our prayer should not pass through (Lamentations 3:44), we shouldn’t think that physical clouds—mere droplets of water—could stop prayer. Rather, it refers to misunderstanding and confusion that "cloud" the mind and prevent us from knowing and relating to God.

When the Bible says that the king of Babylon thought he could "ascend above the heights of the clouds," and "be like the most High" (Isaiah 14:14), it doesn’t mean that he literally went up into the clouds, but that he grasped too much power and was acting as if he were God. It is the same when Job says of a wicked person that "his haughtiness mounts up to the heavens, and his head reaches to the clouds" (Job 20:6).

This kind of metaphor is common in our everyday speech. If we say, "Joe has his head in the clouds, he’s building castles in the air," or "Emily is walking on air, she’s on cloud nine," no one would think of taking us literally. We know that we are not talking about a person’s body or appearance, but about their state of mind—about what’s going on inside them.

Jesus clearly stated that He was using parables and figurative language when speaking of the kingdom of heaven and His second coming (Matt 13:10,11,34; John 16:25). Unfortunately, some people think the Bible must be always taken completely literally—if it says "clouds" in means "clouds" and nothing more.

Actually, "clouds" are symbolic. The Bible says that the Lord’s mercy is in the heavens and His truth or faithfulness reaches to the clouds (Psalms 36:5; 57:10; 68:34; 85:11; 103:11; 108:4). These passages make a special connection between "clouds" and God’s truth. This is not referring to a physical location for His mercy and truth, but to how great they are. Mercy and truth are not physical objects, but spiritual qualities which exist in human hearts and in God’s heart and Word. Since "the clouds of heaven" means God’s Word, so is the rain that comes from those clouds: "As the rain comes down, and the snow from heaven, and do not return there, but water the earth, … so shall My Word be that goes forth from My mouth: it shall not return unto Me void, but it shall accomplish what I please" (Isaiah 55:10-11).

Once we understand this clear connection between clouds and God’s truth, we can see why the people of Israel heard God’s voice coming from a cloud at Mt. Sinai when the Commandments were given, and the disciples heard a voice from the cloud at Jesus’ transfiguration (Exodus 19:16; Numbers 11:25; Deuteronomy 5:22; Matthew 17:5; Mark 9:7; Luke 9:34-35).

What Is Rapture?

The Bible never uses the term "rapture," but it may be an appropriate label for what Paul describes as being "caught up into the clouds to meet the Lord in the air" (1 Thessalonians 4:17). Usually when we speak of a state of "rapture" it means ecstasy, or being emotionally caught up to a higher level, rather than being physically caught up into the sky. But some Christians think that Christ will come and literally take them up into the air. Some even have bumper stickers that say "In case of rapture, this car will be driverless."

When the Bible says that a person’s head, heart or soul is "lifted up," it often symbolizes and elated state of mind (Deuteronomy 8:14, 17:20; 2 Chronicles 17:6, 26:16, 32:25; Psalms 24:4, 27:6; Isaiah 2:12; Ezekiel 28:2, 5, 17, 31:10; Daniel 5:20, 23; Habakkuk 2:4). David describes himself as "lifted up on high" by God when he conquered his enemies (2 Samuel 22:49, 23:1; Psalms 30:1). In a similar way he felt that "his kingdom was lifted up on high" (1 Chronicles 14:2). No one would take this to mean that the country was literally taken up into the sky.

The Lord says that those who trust Him will "mount up with wings like eagles" (Isaiah 40:31), but this doesn’t mean they will literally go up in the sky. When the Lord brought Israel out of Egypt, He said that He carried them up on eagle’s wings to be with Him (Exodus 19:4, Deuteronomy 32:11-12). Yet they never left the ground. They came from slavery to freedom, and found a new relationship with God, but nothing dramatic happened to their bodies. This idea of flying up to be with God is symbolic of their state of mind. We should not take it literally any more than we should take it literally when Solomon says that your money will sprout wings and "fly away like an eagle toward heaven" (Proverbs 23:5).

How We Are Caught Up to God

There is no doubt that Jesus wants to bring us all close to Him. He says, "Come to Me, all you who labor…and I will give you rest" (Matthew 11:28), and He promises, "I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to Myself" (John 12.32). We can experience this closeness if we only turn our minds to Him. "The Lord is near to all who call on Him, to all who call on Him in truth" (Psalm 145:18).

But we should realize that we don’t get any closer to God by changing our physical location, or even by making promises and confessing certain beliefs. There is no point in being like the people the Lord complains about who "draw near Me with their mouth, and honor Me with their lips, but have removed their heart far from Me" (Isaiah 29:13). It is our hearts that the Lord wants. "Draw near to God, and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double minded" (James 4:8). Jesus will come to us, and we can have our hearts and minds caught up to heaven to be with Him whenever we are willing to have our hearts made pure. "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God" (Matthew 5:8).
 

Senecharnix

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I wholeheartedly agree that there will be no rapture, as far too many so-called Christians cling to in the vain hope that they will be given an easy way out of what is coming. Indeed, the only rapture many of them, especially in America, will experience will arrive in the guise of blast waves from nuclear explosions. Strangertoo, being in England does not mean you will escape such a fate. The wrath of God is coming. Prepare....
 
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I wholeheartedly agree that there will be no rapture, as far too many so-called Christians cling to in the vain hope that they will be given an easy way out of what is coming. Indeed, the only rapture many of them, especially in America, will experience will arrive in the guise of blast waves from nuclear explosions. Strangertoo, being in England does not mean you will escape such a fate. The wrath of God is coming. Prepare....

Wrath of God is not literal. God is not angry.
 
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Senecharnix

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Wrath of God is not literal. God is not angry.


I suggest you not bet on that. He has shown to me what He will soon unleash upon our world in general and upon America in particular, The people of our world and especially of America are going to pay an exceedignly heavy price for their arrogance, pride, vanity, greed, hedonism, idolatry, violent impulses, mean-spiritedness, and especially for what they have done and are still doing to our world in order to support their evil sociopolitical-economic systems. Beware of what is coming in April of 2014....
 
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Well, I believe in Rapture, nut literally.

Jesus did spoke of it in:

34 I say to you, In that night two will be on one bed; the one will be taken and the other will be left.
35 Two will be grinding together; one will be taken and the other will be left.
36 Two will be in the field, the one will be taken and the other will be left.
(LITV Lk.17:34-36)
 
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I don't see any reason for God to be any more angry at us one minute than the next. Human evil is the same one moment as it is the next.

The ignorance that causes men to be evil doesn't change either.

If Christ's response to ignorance was once: "Father forgive them for they know not what they do." I don't see any reason for that to ever change.
 
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Soulgazer

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I don't see any reason for God to be any more angry at us one minute than the next. Human evil is the same one moment as it is the next.

The ignorance that causes men to be evil doesn't change either.

If Christ's response to ignorance was once: "Father forgive them for they know not what they do." I don't see any reason for that to ever change.
I agree. Anger is a function of fear. Unless there is first a fear, there can be no anger. What does a God have to be afraid of, if that God already knows the ending?

I don't see God as being subject to the "fight or flight" mechanism.
 
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Hillsage

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I agree. Anger is a function of fear. Unless there is first a fear, there can be no anger. What does a God have to be afraid of, if that God already knows the ending?

I don't see God as being subject to the "fight or flight" mechanism.
1JO 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

GOD IS LOVE! :thumbsup:

When man truly understands the love of God, he will no longer have the impression that God has the same kind of WRATH that 'carnal/fleshly' thinking man does. For the wrath of God is no more like the wrath of man than is the love of God like the love of man, or the thoughts of God like the thoughts of man. "God is not a man..."!

Two words are translated as wrath in Revelation

2372 thumos: passion (as if breathing hard)
3709 orge: prop. desire (as a reaching forth or excitement of the mind), i.e. (by anal.) violent passion (ire, or [justifiable] abhorrence); by impl. punishment

The "passion" of God is 'for sinners' and 'against sin'. Has anyone ever seen 'the wrath of a lamb'. :D
 
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Hillsage

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Even the elect ones are not raptured! ^_^

Matthew 24:22

“If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.
And if you read the verse prior, apparently the tribulation of those days is going to be worse than the eternal hell that so many are in "fear of torment".

MAT 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
 
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daq

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1JO 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

GOD IS LOVE! :thumbsup:

When man truly understands the love of God, he will no longer have the impression that God has the same kind of WRATH that 'carnal/fleshly' thinking man does. For the wrath of God is no more like the wrath of man than is the love of God like the love of man, or the thoughts of God like the thoughts of man. "God is not a man..."!

Two words are translated as wrath in Revelation

2372 thumos: passion (as if breathing hard)
3709 orge: prop. desire (as a reaching forth or excitement of the mind), i.e. (by anal.) violent passion (ire, or [justifiable] abhorrence); by impl. punishment

The "passion" of God is 'for sinners' and 'against sin'. Has anyone ever seen 'the wrath of a lamb'. :D

With respect, you appear to have them slightly reversed Hillsage. :)

The wrath of the Lamb is GSN#3709 orge and found in Revelation 6:16-17. However, the thumos-passion-fury of the Theou Father is the holy and precious blood of our Covenant and found in Revelation 15. The blood is of course the innocent blood of his Son. The orge-wrath of the Lamb is dispensed full force upon the enemies, (which are unclean spirit). This is because all judgment is given unto the Son: who gave his testimony, poured out his soul, (and innocent blood) unto death, and thereby purchased us, his brethren, back from the clutches of the enemy. :)
 
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Hillsage

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With respect, you appear to have them slightly reversed Hillsage. :)

The wrath of the Lamb is GSN#3709 orge and found in Revelation 6:16-17. However, the thumos-passion-fury of the Theou Father is the holy and precious blood of our Covenant and found in Revelation 15. The blood is of course the innocent blood of his Son. The orge-wrath of the Lamb is dispensed full force upon the enemies, (which are unclean spirit).

Hello daq,

Actually I wasn't trying to put them in any particular order. The point I was trying to make had to do with the definition of both Greek words having more to do with 'passion' than that of 'actions of violence and hatred'. That attitude seems to line up more with the wrathful actions of men IMO. I simply believe that the "wrath/passion of the lamb" has to do with the 'nature of a lamb' in dealing with 'sinners' more so than 'sin'. Like 'the lamb of God said here on earth when he 'passionately' said "Neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more.' He never condoned the sin, but he never condemned this sinner either.

Defining the 'PASSION' aspect of the words simply makes more sense to me, as shown in the following verses. I've never thought of drunkenness as a 'wrathful' action when I think of the 'sweet and intoxicating' aspects of drinking wine.

REV 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath/thumos of her fornication,...
REV 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the PASSION/thumos of her fornication,


Do 'most' here tend to remember having 'WRATHFUL fornication', or do they tend to remember associating 'PASSION with fornication'? X bikers need not answer this probably. :D

This is because all judgment is given unto the Son: who gave his testimony, poured out his soul, (and innocent blood) unto death, and thereby purchased us, his brethren, back from the clutches of the enemy. :)
"Us his brethren"...only? Or was his blood precious enough to purchase all? I personally believe all. And anything less than ALL, is a waste of that very precious blood IMO. And I believe my God is very PASSIONATE about dealing with sin.

Also, as I understand it, the BEMA judgment seat of Christ always deals with 'our WORKS' done for the salvation of the soul. But this only comes after believing unto the salvation of the spirit which comes first, from simply 'BELIEVING' in His work on the cross?
 
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Senecharnix

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I agree. Anger is a function of fear. Unless there is first a fear, there can be no anger. What does a God have to be afraid of, if that God already knows the ending?

I don't see God as being subject to the "fight or flight" mechanism.


God is not devoid of passion. He most certainly does get angry, disgusted, annoyed, irritated, vexed...We humans may not have changed over the ages. But the accumulation of our sins and foolishness has reached critical mass. The situation requires God to respond. That means He will soon unleash His wrath....
 
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Soulgazer

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God is not devoid of passion. He most certainly does get angry, disgusted, annoyed, irritated, vexed * We humans may not have changed over the ages. But the accumulation of our sins and foolishness has reached critical mass. The situation requires God to respond. That means He will soon unleash His wrath....
*My friend, in this you are certainly misunderstanding. The twin demons of fear and anger are tied to the hyle, or material. They are hardwired into our animal selves, and have nothing to do with our higher selves.

As to the rest, We have indeed reached critical mass...which is why the frantic race for alternative energy. Before the nineteen hundreds, the earth had a population that had been more or less stable at around one point two billion people for the last twenty thousand years or so. It has been technology that allowed the population to boom to seven billion. If energy fails, technology fails, and if technology fails, there will be a sudden and painful crash in population.
 
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Senecharnix

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*My friend, in this you are certainly misunderstanding. The twin demons of fear and anger are tied to the hyle, or material. They are hardwired into our animal selves, and have nothing to do with our higher selves.

As to the rest, We have indeed reached critical mass...which is why the frantic race for alternative energy. Before the nineteen hundreds, the earth had a population that had been more or less stable at around one point two billion people for the last twenty thousand years or so. It has been technology that allowed the population to boom to seven billion. If energy fails, technology fails, and if technology fails, there will be a sudden and painful crash in population.


I respect you and your wisdom, Soulgazer. So, if you insist on following the high road, that is fine with me. The view up there is lovely. But I hope you will excuse me for continuing to march up the road of reality. I realize there is no way that you can possibly appreciate extent of the education that God, the Son, the Holy Spirit, and other holy entities have put me through, beginning in my earliest days, during this life. It has proven comprehensive. I do not care if it sounds as if I am bragging. My only motive is to establish my credentials....

The truth is that we inhabitants of the Earth are in deep muck due to our own follies. A population crash is on the way. I know that you do not entertain much confidence in the revelations and premonitions that I have received. But I do. The ones that I have mentioned are just a fraction of the revelations and premonitions that I have received, beginning when I was a wee little nonconformist. In too many cases to recount, various revelations and premonitions have already proven uncannily accurate....


I would not say anything about April of 2014 if I suffered the slightest doubt that huge developments and events will visit us then and that they will initiate a series of tribulations and woes, which will ultimately lead to the destruction of civilization as we know it. I have been shown future maps of Europe and the Western Hemisphere. There will be no cities in them. Instead of population densities of hundreds per square mile, they show population densities of zero to one or two per square mile....


In one vision, I toured the future Holy Land. It unfolded during a time when the sea will be about forty feet lower than it is now. There was no sign of habitation anywhere that I went. I did not go to where Jerusalem is. The tour mostly meandered through the Holy Land's coastal areas. My guide was God. He was wearing an Israeli flag as a shawl....


During that same vision, we returned to Alexandria, Egypt. It was in ruins. But a few hundred people still endured in it. The bottom line is that humanity is headed for a desolate future outside the utopian enclaves that the Son will help establish. The people living in them will not worry about foolish things, such as sociopolitical matters, finances, economics, or technological advancement. That is not to suggest there will be no technological advancement. What I am saying is that such matters will be kept in proper perspective. The matters of the mind, heart, psyche, and spirit will become far more important....
 
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daq

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Hello daq,

Actually I wasn't trying to put them in any particular order. The point I was trying to make had to do with the definition of both Greek words having more to do with 'passion' than that of 'actions of violence and hatred'. That attitude seems to line up more with the wrathful actions of men IMO. I simply believe that the "wrath/passion of the lamb" has to do with the 'nature of a lamb' in dealing with 'sinners' more so than 'sin'. Like 'the lamb of God said here on earth when he 'passionately' said "Neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more.' He never condoned the sin, but he never condemned this sinner either.

Defining the 'PASSION' aspect of the words simply makes more sense to me, as shown in the following verses. I've never thought of drunkenness as a 'wrathful' action when I think of the 'sweet and intoxicating' aspects of drinking wine.

REV 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath/thumos of her fornication,...
REV 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the PASSION/thumos of her fornication,

Do 'most' here tend to remember having 'WRATHFUL fornication', or do they tend to remember associating 'PASSION with fornication'? X bikers need not answer this probably. :D

"Us his brethren"...only? Or was his blood precious enough to purchase all? I personally believe all. And anything less than ALL, is a waste of that very precious blood IMO. And I believe my God is very PASSIONATE about dealing with sin.

Also, as I understand it, the BEMA judgment seat of Christ always deals with 'our WORKS' done for the salvation of the soul. But this only comes after believing unto the salvation of the spirit which comes first, from simply 'BELIEVING' in His work on the cross?

If you search out each of the two words in their own contexts an usages you will find by the contexts that what I have presented is consistent throughout, (and if not then those are the places one does not yet fully understand). As for the offering of Yeshua; yes, he surely died for the sins of the whole world, everyone, every man, every woman, and every child. However, one must partake of the offering to be healthy and healed. If one refuses to eat the food offered to him then the same who refused is the one responsible for wasting the food, not the provider. Thus, for those who refuse to eat, making a mockery of the holy and precious offering of Yeshua; the orge-wrath of God abides upon them and they are condemend already because they refuse to come to the Light.
 
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Senecharnix

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If I had a dollar for every time I heard that.....


So what...Our world has always been rich in false prophets and illuminaries of darkness. That has nothing to do with yours truly. If you bet against me knowing what I am talking about, you will lose big time. It would be far better for you and others to exercise wisdom and prepare yourselves for what is coming. Once the brunt of the storm's fury arrives, it will be too late. In the meantime, America, Canada, and various other nations will remain stuck on a roller-coaster of destiny. Look for some very unpleasant events and developments to trouble our reality, during the next eighteen months. As bad as some of them will be, they will only serve as more preliminary components of the storm of tribulations, woes, horrors, terrors, disasters, catastrophes, calamities, and deprivations that has been troubling us for the past few years. In other words, the worst parts of the great storm are on the way. After they arrive, nothing will ever be the same again and most, if not everything, that you love and cherish will be swept away by the storm's fury. Indeed, the time of God's wrath draws nigh. Those folks waiting to be magically whisked away to the safety of Yeshua's loving arms are going to suffer a grave disappointment. God, however, will lead some people to relative safety and make sure they endure the storm's fury....
 
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Hillsage

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If you search out each of the two words in their own contexts an usages you will find by the contexts that what I have presented is consistent throughout, (and if not then those are the places one does not yet fully understand).
We have no disagreement concerning any of what you just said. I just differ in the definition.

As for the offering of Yeshua; yes, he surely died for the sins of the whole world, everyone, every man, every woman, and every child. However, one must partake of the offering to be healthy and healed.
I agree totally again. I just don't limit the grace of God to the one particular age for accomplishing the counsel of His will. Curious, why is the church so unhealthy and sick then? :confused:

If one refuses to eat the food offered to him then the same who refused is the one responsible for wasting the food, not the provider. Thus, for those who refuse to eat, making a mockery of the holy and precious offering of Yeshua; the orge-wrath of God abides upon them and they are condemend already because they refuse to come to the Light.
But if one cannot refuse because they are unable to hear, then whose fault is that?

MAR 4:11 And he said to them, "To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables;
12 so that they may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand; lest they should turn again, and be forgiven."


I believe in predestination for the initial salvation of the born again spirit. And I believe this is a salvation that only comes IF the Father DRAWS/DRAGS you first. As the verse above says EVERYTHING is in parables keeping them from seeing/hearing to KEEP them from CONVERSION and FORGIVENESS. How do you read this?

JOH 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws/helkuo him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

1670 helkuo: to drag (lit. or fig.)

You may disagree, but that's, briefly, where I'm coming from. :wave:
 
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