The Rapture before the Tribulation -Enoch's Pre-Trib Eschatology Revelation

[yeshuasavedme]

I don't believe that is stated anywhere so clearly. He was a diciple in the sense of an early christian, but nowhere is it clearly stated that he was a disciple during Jesus' earthly career.

Barnabas was right there, from the beginning, and sold all his possessions to give to the Church to disperse as people had need. His sister, Mary, mother of John Mark, is said to have hosted the Last Supper in her home, and John Mark was a witness to it, it is said.
Act 12:12 And when he had considered [the thing], he came to the house of Mary the mother of John, whose surname was Mark; where many were gathered together praying.
Col 4:10 Aristarchus my fellowprisoner saluteth you, and Marcus, sister's son to Barnabas, (touching whom ye received commandments: if he come unto you, receive him


Act 4:36 And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, [and] of the country of Cyprus,
Act 4:37 Having land, sold [it], and brought the money, and laid [it] at the apostles' feet.

Act 9:26 And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple.
Act 9:27 But Barnabas took him, and brought [him] to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Now on that, we agree.

First, they must open their Bibles and open Enoch, to see what Enoch says that is built upon in the OT and NT, and never relaid as foundational doctrines, because Enoch already laid them out by revelation, for any to read and correlate with the OT and NT.
Canon means "list", and any born again in Christ believer can have a list of books in their collection of sacred writings


Charles translation
Enoch chapter 1
9And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones
To execute judgement upon all,
And to destroy all the ungodly:
And to convict all flesh
Of all the works of their ungodliness which they have ungodly committed,
And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.

Jud 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

Jud 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him


Enoch said this New Testament doctrine first, for the last things:
Jesus agrees with Enoch and says the same about the judgment commited to Himself by the Father and the throne of Glory from which He judges all nations


and
Enoch 61
6And all who dwell above in the heaven received a command and power and one voice and one light like unto fire. 7And that One with their first words they blessed,
And extolled and lauded with wisdom,
And they were wise in utterance and in the spirit of life.
8And the Lord of Spirits placed the Elect One on the throne of glory.
And he shall judge all the works of the holy above in the heaven,
And in the balance shall their deeds be weighed.
9And when he shall lift up his countenance
To judge their secret ways according to the word of the name of the Lord of Spirits,
And their path according to the way of the righteous judgement of the Lord of Spirits,
Then shall they all with one voice speak and bless,
And glorify and extol and sanctify the name of the Lord of Spirits.

I agree.

Jesus knew Enoch. Jude knew Enoch. It was believed and understood to be prophetic scripture at the time of Christ.

God never said anything about canonizing a collection of letters and writings and calling it the "Bible".

Jesus defined the Scriptures as "the Law, the Prophets, and the Psalms".

Luk 24:44And he said unto them, These [are] the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and [in] the prophets, and [in] the psalms, concerning me.

Luk 24:27And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.



Enoch was a part of the Scriptures at one time. Jesus referred to parts of it during His time here on earth. Jude quotes it directly.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

I agree.

Jesus knew Enoch. Jude knew Enoch. It was believed and understood to be prophetic scripture at the time of Christ.

God never said anything about canonizing a collection of letters and writings and calling it the "Bible".

Jesus defined the Scriptures as "the Law, the Prophets, and the Psalms".

Luk 24:44And he said unto them, These [are] the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and [in] the prophets, and [in] the psalms, concerning me.

Luk 24:27And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.



Enoch was a part of the Scriptures at one time. Jesus referred to parts of it during His time here on earth. Jude quotes it directly.

Yes, the Law, the Prophets, and the Psalms are what are anointed/God breathed, while the writings: histories, prose and wisdom; are true writings [but are not "thus saith YHWH"], and included in the collections of writings of the Jews and other Christian groups because they are beneficial.
Esther is history, for instance, and so is the Book of Jasher; Ezra; Nehemiah; Judges; Kings; Chronicles; Maccabees; and so forth.
Enoch is still Scripture, and has been, for millions and millions, over the years.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Enoch calls his sons and gives the doctrine of the first consummation of sin on earth and for the second, which is the tribulation/time of God's wrath poured out, which Enoch calls the second consummation of sin on earth.

Enoch chapter 91 "And now, my son Methuselah, call to me all thy brothers
And gather together to me all the sons of thy mother;
For the word calls me,
And the spirit is poured out upon me,
That I may show you everything
That shall befall you for ever."
2And thereupon Methuselah went and summoned to him all his brothers and assembled his relatives. 3And he spake unto all the children of righteousness and said:
"Hear, ye sons of Enoch, all the words of your father,
And hearken aright to the voice of my mouth;
For I exhort you and say unto you, beloved:
4"Love uprightness and walk therein.
And draw not nigh to uprightness with a double heart,
And associate not with those of a double heart,
"But walk in righteousness, my sons.
And it shall guide you on good paths,
And righteousness shall be your companion.

[the flood ends the wicked on earth for the first time]
5"For I know that violence must increase on the earth,
And a great chastisement be executed on the earth,
And all unrighteousness come to an end:
"Yea, it shall be cut off from its roots,
And its whole structure be destroyed.

[Then the second consummation of sin on earth comes]:
6"And unrighteousness shall again be consummated on the earth,

[but the second consummation of sin on earth does not come until wickedness comes to its fullness]
And all the deeds of unrighteousness and of violence
And transgression shall prevail in a twofold degree.
7"And when sin and unrighteousness and blasphemy
And violence in all kinds of deeds increase,
And apostasy and transgression and uncleanness increase,
"A great chastisement shall come from heaven upon all these,
And the holy Lord will come forth with wrath and chastisement
To execute judgement on earth.
8"In those days violence shall be cut off from its roots,
And the roots of unrighteousness together with deceit,
And they shall be destroyed from under heaven.
9"And all the idols of the heathen shall be abandoned,
And the temples burned with fire,
And they shall remove them from the whole earth,
"And they shall be cast into the judgement of fire,
And shall perish in wrath and in grievous judgement for ever.


God waits to pour out His wrath, treasuring it up for that day of wrath, which shall come as surely as the flood came and took away all sinners in the days of Noah, and it is an unknown time to the Church when that day comes, but Enoch says, in chapter 1, that it is the day of tribulation when all the wicked and godless are to be removed. They will not be removed until that day of tribulation,
and the Church is removed first, states Enoch, in chapter 50, before those days of tribulation come upon the world.

1 The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked and godless are to be removed. 2And he took up his parable and said- Enoch a righteous man, whose eyes were opened by God, saw the vision of the Holy One in the heavens, which the angels showed me, and from them I heard everything, and from them I understood as I saw, but not for this generation, but for a remote one which is for to come. 3Concerning the elect I said, and took up my parable concerning them:

chapter 50 And in those days a change shall take place for the holy and elect,
And the light of days shall abide upon them,
And glory and honour shall turn to the holy,
2On the day of affliction on which evil shall have been treasured up against the sinners.
And the righteous shall be victorious in the name of the Lord of Spirits:
And He will cause the others to witness this
That they may repent
And forgo the works of their hands.
3They shall have no honour through the name of the Lord of Spirits,
Yet through His name shall they be saved,
And the Lord of Spirits will have compassion on them,
For His compassion is great.
4And He is righteous also in His judgement,
And in the presence of His glory unrighteousness also shall not maintain itself:
At His judgement the unrepentant shall perish before Him.
5And from henceforth I will have no mercy on them, saith the Lord of Spirits.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Also, in Enoch, we have the revelation that The Head of days [Jesus pre-incarnate, who is the Ancient of Days in Daniel -same meaning- repented of destroying all flesh by the flood, and promised to end wickedness by the tribulation, the second time:

Chapter 55
And after that the Head of Days repented and said: "In vain have I destroyed all who dwell on the earth."
2And He sware by His great name: "Henceforth I will not do so to all who dwell on the earth, and I will set a sign in the heaven: and this shall be a pledge of good faith between Me and them for ever, so long as heaven is above the earth.

And this is in accordance with My command. 3When I have desired to take hold of them by the hand of the angels on the day of tribulation and pain because of this, I will cause My chastisement and My wrath to abide upon them, saith God, the Lord of Spirits.

 

[Yekcidmij]

Do you believe that the stars in the sky are literal angel who rebelled against God? If not, you don't believe a large chunck of what Enoch presents.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Do you believe that the stars in the sky are literal angel who rebelled against God? If not, you don't believe a large chunck of what Enoch presents.

I answered you already on that.
Stars are called sons of God and the host of heaven, the armies of YHWH, in Enoch and in the Bible. Not all rebelled, so you err on that.
Rebel stars are called wandering stars, for they did not keep their order/course.
Jud 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

Each star has a name and a duty.
Psa 147:4 He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by [their] names.

They fought against Sisera, in their courses;
Jdg 5:20 They fought from heaven; the stars in their courses fought against Sisera.

Dan 8:10 And it waxed great, [even] to the host of heaven; and it cast down [some] of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.

Those who turn many to righteousness shall shine as the stars, forever.
Dan 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth:


Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Since YHWH Elohym called light into being on day one of creation week, and since the morning stars sang together when the Creator "laid the foundations of the earth", then the stars began their creation from earth, where the heavens were stretched out from, on day two of creation week, and those that get cast down to the earth in the tribulation week, are right where they began their being from.


Jesus gives the faithful "the morning star".
Rev 2:28 And I will give him the morning Star.

Jesus is the morning Star.
Mat 2:2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star [star of dawn] arise in your hearts:

The glory that born again in Christ believers are enthroned upon is parabolically [as the angel showed Enoch], their "star", reserved in the heavens for them.
For one to get blotted out of the Book of Life is to get one's glory cast down [to get your light put out by God], and to never be able to recover the hope of glory, for that is an irrevocable loss.

Job 18:5 Yea, the light/'owr of the wicked shall be put out/extinguished, and the spark/flame of his fire shall not shine.
Eze 32:7 And when I shall put thee out/extinguish you, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.
Job 18:6 The light shall be dark in his tabernacle, and his candle shall be put out with him.
Pro 13:9 The light of the righteous rejoiceth: but the lamp of the wicked shall be put out/extinguished.


Enoch 99:
15Woe to them who work unrighteousness and help oppression,
And slay their neighbours until the day of the great judgement.
16For He shall cast down your glory,
And bring affliction on your hearts,
And shall arouse His fierce indignation
And destroy you all with the sword;
And all the holy and righteous shall remember your sins.

 

[Yekcidmij]

I answered you already on that.
Stars are called sons of God and the host of heaven, the armies of YHWH, in Enoch and in the Bible. Not all rebelled, so you err on that.
Rebel stars are called wandering stars, for they did not keep their order/course.
Jud 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

Each star has a name and a duty.
Psa 147:4 He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by [their] names.
They fought against Sisera, in their courses;

Dan 8:10 And it waxed great, [even] to the host of heaven; and it cast down [some] of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
Those who turn many to righteousness shall shine as the stars, forever.
Dan 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth:


Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Since YHWH Elohym called light into being on day one of creation week, and since the morning stars sang together when the Creator "laid the foundations of the earth", then the stars began their creation from earth, where the heavens were stretched out from, on day two of creation week, and those that get cast down to the earth in the tribulation week, are right where they began their being from.

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Jesus gives the faithful "the morning star".
Rev 2:28 And I will give him the morning Star.
Jesus is the morning Star.
Mat 2:2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star [star of dawn] arise in your hearts:

So you do believe that stars are literally angels. Thanks.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

So you do believe that stars are literally angels. Thanks.

I believe what is written.
Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

To add to my above post, Enoch writes this:

104 I swear unto you, that in heaven the angels remember you for good before the glory of the Great One: and your names are written before the glory of the Great One. 2Be hopeful; for aforetime ye were put to shame through ill and affliction; but now ye shall shine as the lights of heaven, ye shall shine and ye shall be seen, and the portals of heaven shall be opened to you.
3And in your cry, cry for judgement, and it shall appear to you; for all your tribulation shall be visited on the rulers, and on all who helped those who plundered you.
4Be hopeful, and cast not away your hope; for ye shall have great joy as the angels of heaven. 5What shall ye be obliged to do? Ye shall not have to hide on the day of the great judgement and ye shall not be found as sinners, and the eternal judgement shall be far from you for all the generations of the world.
6And now fear not, ye righteous, when ye see the sinners growing strong and prospering in their ways: be not companions with them, but keep afar from their violence; for ye shall become companions of the hosts of heaven.



Hannah prsaised YHWH using the words of Enoch which she had and had read:
1Sa 2:8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, [and] lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set [them] among princes/sars, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth [are] the LORD'S, and he hath set the world/globe upon them.
When the pillars of the earth are cast down, those who are the adopted sons of God, who are raptured/laqach to heaven, before those are cast down, are part of the established, reset pillars, as Psalm 75:2,3 state they will be, in the Hebrew.

Enoch 108
11"And now I will summon the spirits of the good who belong to the generation of light, and I will transform those who were born in darkness, who in the flesh were not recompensed with such honour as their faithfulness deserved. 12And I will bring forth in shining light those who have loved My holy name, and I will seat each on the throne of his honour.
13And they shall be resplendent for times without number; for righteousness is the judgement of God; for to the faithful He will give faithfulness in the habitation of upright paths.

46:
4And this Son of Man whom thou hast seen
Shall raise up the kings and the mighty from their seats,
And the strong from their thrones

Psalm 75:2
When I shall receive (laqach/rapture) the congregation I will judge (vindicate) uprightly[with eguity].
The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved : I bear up (regulate) the pillars of it. Selah.
The pillars of the earth will be reset, with the saints taken above and the wicked host cast down to earth -quite an exchange of places!

 

[yeshuasavedme]

So you do believe that stars are literally angels. Thanks.

did you know that every force/spirit God created to do His will is also called His messenger/angel? Even the evil spirits/the satans which He created are His servants and can do nothing without His permission.

Even the force called "lightnings" is His "angel" and answers to Him.
The wind and the waters are His "messengers and hosts" doing His will and obeying Him.
Job 38:35 Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go, and say/answer unto thee, Here we [are]?

Jer 10:13 When he uttereth his voice, [there is] a multitude of waters in the heavens, and he causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings with rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of his treasures.
Rev 16:5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
Enoch 60
16And the spirit of the sea is masculine and strong, and according to the might of his strength he draws it back with a rein, and in like manner it is driven forward and disperses amid all the mountains of the earth. 17And the spirit of the hoar-frost is his own angel, and the spirit of the hail is a good angel. 18And the spirit of the snow has forsaken his chambers on account of his strength- There is a special spirit therein, and that which ascends from it is like smoke, and its name is frost. 19And the spirit of the mist is not united with them in their chambers, but it has a special chamber; for its course is glorious both in light and in darkness, and in winter and in summer, and in its chamber is an angel. 20And the spirit of the dew has its dwelling at the ends of the heaven, and is connected with the chambers of the rain, and its course is in winter and summer: and its clouds and the clouds of the mist are connected, and the one gives to the other. 21And when the spirit of the rain goes forth from its chamber, the angels come and open the chamber and lead it out, and when it is diffused over the whole earth it unites with the water on the earth. And whensoever it unites with the water on the earth... For the waters are for those who dwell on the earth; 22for they are nourishment for the earth from the Most High who is in heaven: therefore there is a measure for the rain, and the angels take it in charge.

 

[zeke37]

[Chapter 50]
A The rapture/translation to glory bodies, of the living saints:
1 And in those days a change shall take place for the holy and elect,
And the light of days shall abide upon them,
And glory and honour shall turn to the holy,

B Then the tribulation/day of wrath upon all the inhabitants of the world:
2 On the day of affliction on which evil shall have been treasured up against the sinners.

C The safety of those translated to glory, pre-trib, is seen and known by those remaining:
And the righteous shall be victorious in the name of the Lord of Spirits:

D Those who see and repent are saved in the name of the Son of Man, but they do not get translated to glory,and endure to the end:
And He will cause the others to witness (this)
That they may repent
And forgo the works of their hands.

3 They shall have no honour through the name of the Lord of Spirits,
Yet through His name shall they be saved,
And the Lord of Spirits will have compassion on them,
For His compassion is great. 4 And He is righteous also in His judgement,

E The end, when the LORD comes to judge and to cleanse the earth of all the wicked, in what Enoch calls the second consummation of sin on earth:
And in the presence of His glory unrighteousness also shall not maintain itself:
At His judgement the unrepentant shall perish before Him.
5 And from henceforth I will have no mercy on them, saith the Lord of Spirits.

Enoch opens his book with the revelation of the tribulation of the end times, and says he writes it for those who will be living at that time:
Chapter 1]
1 The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be 2 living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked and godless are to be removed. And he took up his parable and said -Enoch a righteous man, whose eyes were opened by God, saw the vision of the Holy One in the heavens, which the angels showed me, and from them I heard everything, and from them I understood as I saw, but not for this generation, but for a remote one which is 3 for to come. Concerning the elect I said, and took up my parable concerning them:
he Holy Great One will come forth from His dwelling,
4 And the eternal God will tread upon the earth, (even) on Mount Sinai,
[And appear from His camp]
And appear in the strength of His might from the heaven of heavens.

5 And all shall be smitten with fear
And the Watchers shall quake,
And great fear and trembling shall seize them unto the ends of the earth.
6 And the high mountains shall be shaken,
And the high hills shall be made low,
And shall melt like wax before the flame
7 And the earth shall be wholly rent in sunder,
And all that is upon the earth shall perish,
And there shall be a judgement upon all (men).
8 But with the righteous He will make peace.
And will protect the elect,
And mercy shall be upon them.
And they shall all belong to God,
And they shall be prospered,
And they shall all be blessed.
And He will help them all,
And light shall appear unto them,
And He will make peace with them'.
9 And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones
To execute judgement upon all,
And to destroy all the ungodly: And to convict all flesh
Of all the works of their ungodliness which they have ungodly committed,
And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.

And in chapter 50 of
Enoch's parables, he reveals the rapture/translation to glory, of the righteous before the tribulation, and then, those remaining who see and repent, are the "elect" who understand by what has happened and by Enoch's book which is for them in that time, as Enoch said, and they repent, but get no glory as those they saw raptured do, who are translated and removed, for that time of the tribulation which is to come as the second consummation of sin on earth, when all the wicked and godless are to be removed.

Those remaining after that removal do not get the bodies translated to glory, though they are saved in the name of the Son of Man who was to come and is come, and we see by the writings of Enoch and of the OT and NT, that they enter into the millennial kingdom as the blessed of YHWH, who populate the earth and live for a thousand years, never dying for there is no more death anymore [except for the unrepentant sinners who die at age 100, as Isaiah writes], before they who are the "Blessed of YHWH" are translated to their immortal, made for glory,bodies, at the last ingathering of earth's last and final harvest of the sons of God, adopted out of Adam and into the New Man name.

i did not read a pre trib gathering there...
is your post supposed to show us that?

 

[yeshuasavedme]

i did not read a pre trib gathering there...
is your post supposed to show us that?

Chapter 50: the parable of the translation to glory of the "holy and elect", before the tribulation. The holy and elect, in Enoch, who are translated before the tribulation comes, are redeemed Jews and Gentiles. After the rapture, the elect are the namesake people of the New Man name, Jacob's seed -as always they are so called.

A The rapture/translation to glory bodies, of the living saints:
1 And in those days a change shall take place for the holy and elect,
And the light of days shall abide upon them,
And glory and honour shall turn to the holy,

B Then the tribulation/day of wrath upon all the inhabitants of the world:
2 On the day of affliction on which evil shall have been treasured up against the sinners.

C The safety of those translated to glory, pre-trib, is seen and known by those remaining:
And the righteous shall be victorious in the name of the Lord of Spirits:


D Those remaining on earth, who see and repent, are saved in the name of the Son of Man, but they do not get translated to glory,and they are those who endure to the end of the tribulation:
And He will cause the others to witness (this)
That they may repent
And forgo the works of their hands.


They do not get the glory-honour as the pre-trib holy and elect did get;
3 They shall have no honour through the name of the Lord of Spirits,
Yet through His name shall they be saved,
And the Lord of Spirits will have compassion on them,
For His compassion is great. 4 And He is righteous also in His judgement,

 

[zeke37]

same day, as I read it....the change is the same day as His wrath

why do you think that there is a significant time in between the change and His wrath?

 

[yeshuasavedme]

same day, as I read it....the change is the same day as His wrath

why do you think that there is a significant time in between the change and His wrath?

You'll have to explain to me what you are saying, as I don't understand.
Thanks

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[yeshuasavedme]

I answered you already on that.
Stars are called sons of God and the host of heaven, the armies of YHWH, in Enoch and in the Bible. Not all rebelled, so you err on that.

Rebel stars are called wandering stars, for they did not keep their order/course.
Jud 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

Each star has a name and a duty.
Psa 147:4 He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by [their] names.

They fought against Sisera, in their courses;
Jdg 5:20 They fought from heaven; the stars in their courses fought against Sisera.

Dan 8:10 And it waxed great, [even] to the host of heaven; and it cast down [some] of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.

Those who turn many to righteousness shall shine as the stars, forever.
Dan 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth:


Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Since YHWH Elohym called light into being on day one of creation week, and since the morning stars sang together when the Creator "laid the foundations of the earth", then the stars began their creation from earth, where the heavens were stretched out from, on day two of creation week, and those that get cast down to the earth in the tribulation week, are right where they began their being from.


Jesus gives the faithful "the morning star".
Rev 2:28 And I will give him the morning Star.

Jesus is the morning Star.
Mat 2:2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star [star of dawn] arise in your hearts:

The glory that born again in Christ believers are enthroned upon is parabolically [as the angel showed Enoch], their "star", reserved in the heavens for them.
For one to get blotted out of the Book of Life is to get one's glory cast down [to get your light put out by God], and to never be able to recover the hope of glory, for that is an irrevocable loss.

Job 18:5 Yea, the light/'owr of the wicked shall be put out/extinguished, and the spark/flame of his fire shall not shine.
Eze 32:7 And when I shall put thee out/extinguish you, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.
Job 18:6 The light shall be dark in his tabernacle, and his candle shall be put out with him.
Pro 13:9 The light of the righteous rejoiceth: but the lamp of the wicked shall be put out/extinguished.


Enoch 99:
15Woe to them who work unrighteousness and help oppression,
And slay their neighbours until the day of the great judgement.
16For He shall cast down your glory,
And bring affliction on your hearts,
And shall arouse His fierce indignation
And destroy you all with the sword;
And all the holy and righteous shall remember your sins.
bump

 

[BABerean2]

Enoch's parables, he reveals the rapture/translation to glory, of the righteous before the tribulation,

Revelation 12:11 completely destroys a pretrib removal of the Church.


Rev 12:11　 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.　


A person cannot be under the Blood of the Lamb and not be under the Grace of the New Covenant of Christ.

In Hebrews 8:13 we find that the New Covenant has made the Old Covenant "obsolete".
In Hebrews 13:20 the New Covenant is "everlasting".
Therefore, God is not going go back to the Old Covenant system during a future time.

Nobody is going to come to salvation outside of the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:18-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.


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[Biblewriter]

The book of Enoch was left out of the recgnized cannon, not because the early Christiand felt it was not inspired, but because they felt that they did not have a reliable copy of the original book. And if they did not have even one reliable copy nearly two thousand years ago, how could we have a reliable copy today.

So while what modern versions of this book say is interesting. That is all it is. When we read this book, we do not have any way of knowing that we are reading inspired words from God.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

You know that the information is out there that the Book of Enoch as we have it from the Ethiopian Orthodox Church is as exact as any book of the New Testament discovered, since there are NO original manuscripts of the NT books, either.
Also, you know that Enoch was not included in the "canon" list that the Christ rejecting Jews made AFTER they rejected the Son of Man come in flesh as Redeemer/Kinsman, in the first century, and therefore, the same must needs reject the Scripture [scripture means "writing" and in this instance, accepted as "sacred"]; and there is not one "canon" list accepted in all the Church age, in all the world, that has remained unchanged and universal in all the Church of Christ.
"Canon" has changed with the politics of the rulers of the different denominations many times, over the centuries, and has been used as a "club" against the Believers, not to unify, but to divide, and not as a truly Holy Spirit inspired Gospel fact list.

It is up to believers to know for themselves, and in this day and age, there is no excuse not to know. So to say one rejects because some others rejected is to take sides without truly doing the research on why others equally and [maybe more so], valid authorities accepted.

Enoch shows that the Messiah was the Son of Man who was to come and be revealed, who was with God, hidden in secret, and who was God, and who was to come in flesh and be revealed, and "in whose name the redeemed are saved".

So why did Rome follow those Christ rejecting Jews in that instance, yet use many other of the accepted writings of the same, which the protestants of the west also kept in their Bibles until the late 1800's. Augustine had a big voice in rejecting Enoch, but his reasons are without foundation in understanding the Word of God from the beginning.

The book of Enoch was left out of the recgnized cannon, not because the early Christiand felt it was not inspired, but because they felt that they did not have a reliable copy of the original book. And if they did not have even one reliable copy nearly two thousand years ago, how could we have a reliable copy today.

So while what modern versions of this book say is interesting. That is all it is. When we read this book, we do not have any way of knowing that we are reading inspired words from God.

I really don't "post" here -don't like to, because of poiltics, but I thought this was worthy to be bumped up.
It's all been said before, many times, so here is another thread from here on the subject:
The Book of Enoch

 

[Yekcidmij]

It is up to believers to know for themselves, and in this day and age, there is no excuse not to know. So to say one rejects because some others rejected is to take sides without truly doing the research on why others equally and [maybe more so], valid authorities accepted.

After having done research on it, I don't think it's useful for anything beyond aiding in historical studies and understanding.