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frankw

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Yahweh (GOD) the GOD of Israel, Who has dealt with Moses, David, the prophets, these seem to be two very different God's
 
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Kris_J

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You are showing that Islam is not a universal religion by saying "Us V's Them". According to Christian thought, those who are stealing from you are also your brothers & sisters that you ought to protect. (But then hey, maybe that is why some Fundy muslim fathers kill their own daughters for having boyfriends)

Do you really believe Allah cares about "my race" or "my nation"?

Love thy neighbor as we are all creations of the one God. There is no "my race" "my nation" as far as God is concerned.
 
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seed757

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Of course they are still my brothers and sisters, but I am not to have so much apathy that I would not do anything to deter them from continuing to steal, which is the aim of Satan todestroy ourselves.

Do you really believe Allah cares about "my race" or "my nation"?

Love thy neighbor as we are all creations of the one God. There is no "my race" "my nation" as far as God is concerned.

I am not saying Allah has any preference to any race or nation or any of the like. What I am saying is to try to prevent others from harming you or myself or your family or my family simply because of race or creed or ethnicity or faith or any other means. Race and nation are only used as examples of the means or excuses some would try to use to harm others by. I hope that explains it.
 
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elijah115

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I don't think the Quran teaches muslims what Jesus taught in the bible Gospels. According to Christian thought, death is nothing to fear. Death has lost its sting. When Jesus says turn the other cheek He means turn the other cheek. We are to overcome evil with good, love our enemies to the point of death - and he was our example. Jesus didn't kill anybody or physically hurt anybody. He remained sinless to the point of death. Those who follow him, through suffering become made perfect like him. The Word of God is eternal and will survive even if I don't exercise self-defence. We are to leave Judgement to God and divine punishment to him, not take the eternal laws into our own hands. Even David wouldn't not kill Saul when He had the opporunity. It is a template for living by faith.
 
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Osiris

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Adeeb said:
first of all you only gave one answer to my many questions.

your questions are many which have been posted here before by earlier muslim posters.

i have answered many of those questions and refuted them. i supposed i will have to read them and refute them again.

your answer stated that we are not certain there are particles smaller than an atom. This may be true but it is regarded that there are smaller particles.

that wasn't the whole point... i hope you would have read what i wrote carefully.

the fact is the Qur'an stated that there were smaller particles than atoms, right or wrong?

not necessarily... you on the other hand are putting words into the quran. let's take a look at what the verse actually says:


34:3 "Those who disbelieve say: The Hour will never come unto us. Say: Nay, by my Lord, but it is coming unto you surely. (He is) the Knower of the Unseen. Not an atom's weight, or less than that or greater, escapeth Him in the heavens or in the earth, but it is in a clear Record"

the quran is talking about the atom's weight... what it seems to me is either:

1. either speaking like a little kid when he says, "i am stronger than the strongest" -- or "i have super powers that i can see smaller particles than the smallest and bigger than the biggest"

2. or the quran stole Greek notions of atoms...
Platonic notions of atoms being different sizes... were there are different sizes there are different weights.

as you can see, you have shown nothing...

Today we see that there are smaller particles in the atom just like we see the world is round.

wrong, it seems you did not read the whole post or did not try to comprehend the post were i said that scientists cannot prove emperically these things...
particles smaller than atoms cannot be seen or proven the same way we can prove that the earth is round.

I stated this before, the Qur'an is not a science book. It was not meant to give theories, however it does support them.

the quran supports scientific theories much less than Plato's theories.
 
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Kris_J

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Then you have no problem with your Christian brother George Bush toppling crazy Saddam over.
 
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elijah115

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I think this might sort it out for you:


In Surah


10:61


it says:

Nor is hidden from thy Lord (so much as) the weight of an atom
on the earth or in heaven. And not the least and not the greatest of these
things but are recorded in a clear record.

34:3 seems like a paraphrase of 10:61 and the author meant smallest or largest of atoms .... not smaller than an atom in that case
 
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seed757

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Kris_J said:
Then you have no problem with your Christian brother George Bush toppling crazy Saddam over.

Of course not. Any a tyrant like that deserves everything coming to him. On a side note this monster is responsible for killing more of my fellow brothers and sisters in Islam than anyone else in history. Surely he has left the fold of Islam, and surely he is deserving of hellfire.
 
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Fares

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Adeeb said:
1)you failed to give me a verse that contained the trinity, and you failed to prove that the trinity existed before Jesus
Here you go Adeeb.

Trinity : The Father, Son of God and Holy Spirit are one, God himself .

Verses saying Jesus is God:

Heb. 1:8
God the Father called the Son "God."
Isa. 9:6
The "child" is called the "Mighty God."
Mt. 1:23, Is. 7:14
Jesus is called Immanuel, which means "God with us."
John. 1:1
Jesus (the "Word") is called "God."
1 Tim. 3:16
Paul said Jesus was God "manifested in the flesh."
Col. 2:8.9
Paul said Jesus was the "fullness of the Godhead bodily.
John. 20:28
Thomas said to Jesus, "…my God."
Titus 2:13
Paul called Jesus "the great God."
Phil. 2:5,6
Paul said Jesus didn’t feel it was wrong to be considered "equal with God."
John 5:18
The Jews wanted to kill Jesus because He was "making Himself equal with God."
John 10:30
Jesus said, "I and the Father are one."
Gen. 1:1; Col. 1:16
The Bible said God created all things and that Jesus created all things.
Mic. 5:2
The messiah (Jesus) had always been in existence.
Isa. 44:6; Rev. 1:2,8, 11,13
God claimed to be the "First and the Last." So did Jesus. God clearly states that He is the only savior. The Bible also says Jesus is our savior.

Bottom line of the previous verses : Jesus is God

Verses saying the Father is God:
John. 8:41
"The only Father we have is God Himself."
Eph. 4:6
" … one God and Father of all …"

Bottom line of the previous verses : The Father is God

Verses saying the Holy Spirit is God:

Acts 5:3,4
"… you have lied to the Holy Spirit … you have not lied to men, but to God."
Acts 28:25,26
Referring to Isaiah 6:9,10, Peter said the "Holy Spirit" spoke to the prophet Isaiah. In the book of Isaiah, it says the "Lord" spoke to the prophet Isaiah.
1 Cor. 3:16
"Don’t you know you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit lives in you?"

Bottom line of the previous verses : Holy Spirit is God

Verses saying there is only one God:

Mk. 12:32
"You are right in saying God is one and there is no other but him."
Mk. 12:29
"The Lord our God, the Lord is one."
1 Tim. 2:5
"For there is one God …"
1 Cor. 8:4
" … and there is no God but one."
Gal. 3:20
" … but God is one."
James 2:19
"You believe there is one God. Good! …"
Ps. 86:10
" … you alone are God."
Deut. 6:4,5
"The Lord our God, the Lord is one …"
Isa. 44:8
"Is there another God besides me?"
Isa. 45:21
"There is no God apart from me … there is none but me."
Isa. 45:22
"For I am God and there is no other."
Isa. 46:9
"I am God, and there is no other"
Isa. 45:5
"I am the Lord, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God."
Isaiah 45:18
"I am the Lord, and there is no other."
Mal. 2:10
"Did not one God create us?"

Bottom line of the previous verses : one and only one God ==> Monotheism

Muslims : You have just supported us that you have contradictions in the Bible .

My answer : For a simple mind, yes its a contradiction .
But The Father, Jesus and Holy Spirit are God because they have the same objective as God, same wisdom but have diffirent roles to play in the salvation of human kind .
 
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Exegete12

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Adeeb said:
we believe jesus is the messiah
Yes, but the Muslim Jesus is the Christian's anti-Christ. The Muslim Jesus gets accepted by Muslims and Jews alike, and a great apostacy takes place with Christians. Many Christians lose their faith to follow anti-Christ (the peace broker) as they believe this peace is from God, it is not until three years down the track that they realise what has happened. IMHO anti-Christ can come only after a war -- I doubt it if it could happen at the moment, as there is no way a Jew or Muslim would agree on problems with Israel. Anti-Christ sets himself up in Jerusalem. There probably will be a war first before anti-Christ comes on the scene, as scripture says it takes 7 years for Israel to bury the dead.
So getting back to Adeeb's comment -- yes you do believe Jesus is the Messiah and my prayer for you is for the real Messiah to reveal himself to you, so you may not be caught unaware when he does finally return. And that's all for the others as well.
"If I be lifted up I will draw ALL men unto me" – these words are from the New Testament, when Jesus talked to his disciples.
 
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Exegete12

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seed757 said:


Why could that not be true of the bible?
Just by reading the spiritual fruit of what Jesus expected of Christians. Love, joy, peace ... in these things there is no end.
Then compare and look at the spiritual fruits Mohammed was recommending. I won't mention them.
 
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mallowpuff

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kaskas said:
Salaam,
i think u meant Chinese whispers ...
That's how the Koran was written, by Chinese whispers. Have you ever played them? How can the Koran be safely written by mere men who were not the prophet. And wasn't it written a couple of hundred years after his death, compared with the New Testament which was written just 30 years after the death of JEsus with the gospels and maybe 1 or even 2 years afte the death and resurrection of Jesus for the letters to the churches from Paul.
 
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HumbleSiPilot77

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Adeeb said:
you stoop even lower
1)you failed to give me a verse that contained the trinity, and you failed to prove that the trinity existed before Jesus

GIVE ME A VERSE THAT MENTIONS "TAWHID" BY NAME, give me verse that contain this word, TRINITY EXITS in GENESIS, what are you talking about?


3)You admitted yourself that Muhammad could not have wrote the Qur'an himself. You in turn just desparately claimed the Qur'an was from Satan without proving so.

Cutting one's hand for he stole is from the pit of hell, stoning one for he refused to believe what you want him to believe is Satan's teaching. Jesus taught forgiveness in such manners barbarian arabs of the time could not have perceived, you are the follower of that tradition.

I am not interested who penned the supposed "infallible" "other copies burnt" Quran, it is inspired by evil, it is an evil book, this is not hidden and it is clearly visible in every single page, hellfire and threats of an incapable god who needs his followers to fight for his pride. Your proof is in the actions.

4)I never said Muhammad said it was from God, rather I gave verses that suggested that only God could have revealed this.

EXACTLY, he for sure DID NOT KNOW what the heck was happening to him when he saw this angel of light creature in the cave, who told him it must be ALLAH?

5)you have not shown me that Muhammad was an immoral man, don't lie.

History shows you that, he doesn't need to...
 
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HumbleSiPilot77

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Adeeb said:
Wow you people are so predictable. First when I bring up the science topics you claim it is no big deal.

It is not, it never was, it is a show of certain proofs to make people believe, let that science of Quran explain Allah, can it? No.

Then you claim Muhammad copied it from the Bible.

This is not a literal claim, Christianity was around for about 6 centuries, he has come into contact of different beliefs which included Christian perspective, including those heretics made Virgin Mary a divine being.

Then when you realize this is also wrong you claim it is from Satan.

You have a wrong story line about what Christians, especially Fares has been saying. We don't claim none of these in some sort of order you have in your imagination, we are certain in all.

I fully expected this.

No doubt


In essence what is happening is that you are being backed into a corner until you can no longer go anywhere. your last resort is to claim that the Qur'an is from the devil.

Man, I or any other Christian WHO HAVE BELIEVED in the GLORIOUS RISEN LORD are NOT backing into anywhere. Lord's truth is BOLD and Glorious, whoever denies it is from the enemy.


Is this is Satan's religion why would he command his followers to do good?

Yes, he fools you into the hope that if you fill your good deed scale by 50.1% you will be getting away with your 49.9% disobedience to God Almighty THE JUST!
 
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HumbleSiPilot77

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Fares said:
Satan's objective is to push away people from salvation .

Amen!

You get salvation when you accept and beleive in the trinity .

Let's add to this a bit. How about the wonderful sacrifice of the Son Of Man and his GLORIOUS RESURRECTION?

So Satan creates a religion close to christianity but does not include the Trinity .

And denies the Cross, and subsequent RESURRECTION, makes no mention of HIS RESURRECTION.

So people are attracked by the 'clear truth' you claim knowing . Thats why Islam is easy to understand . Its a bait .

It is the biggest bait. Rep point.
 
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HumbleSiPilot77

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Adeeb said:
Salvation is really from Satan. Satan wants you to think someone died for your sins when in reality everyone is responsible for his/her actions.

No, he is not because I am not going by the accounts of a SINGLE horrified man who meditates in a cave. I go by the accounts of several hundred man who dedicated themselves for the Lord and died for him, not in the battlefield to survive the religion they found.

Again why would satan write a book condemning himself. Everything time a muslim recites Qur'an he/she seeks refuge in God from Satan. this does not help Satan. Your argument is baseless, makes no sense. The truth is clear.

Satan is laughing his butt off when you are trying to make sense out of his deceit. Because he already knew the man, and his fallible, gullible nature.

Quran 2:256
" Truth stands out clear from error. "

Just like the truth in the Quran that Jews called Jesus "Messiah"??? Get the historical facts in that Quran first than we can try again.
 
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