The Qur’an confirms the New Testament’s account of Jesus’ death and resurrection.

GeorgeTwo

Member
May 31, 2008
1,127
126
✟39,702.00
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Private
who told you so ..the story of jesus is in the Quran:
Jesus in the Quran - IslamiCity
CH2: Jesus in the Quran


And indeed, We gave Musa (Moses) the Book and followed him up with a succession of Messengers. And We gave 'Iesa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), clear signs and supported him with Ruh-ul-Qudus [Jibrael (Gabriel)]. Is it that whenever there came to you a Messenger with what you yourselves desired not, you grew arrogant? Some, you disbelieved and some, you killed.


Those Messengers! We preferred some to others; to some of them Allah spoke (directly); others He raised to degrees (of honour); and to 'Iesa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), We gave clear proofs and evidences, and supported him with Ruh-ul-Qudus [Jibrael (Gabriel)]. If Allah had willed, succeeding generations would not have fought against each other, after clear Verses of Allah had come to them, but they differed - some of them believed and others disbelieved. If Allah had willed, they would not have fought against one another, but Allah does what He likes

(Remember) when the angels said: "O Maryam (Mary)! Verily, Allah gives you the glad tidings of a Word ["Be!" - and he was! i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus) the son of Maryam (Mary)] from Him, his name will be the Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), held in honour in this world and in the Hereafter, and will be one of those who are near to Allah."


And (remember) when Allah said: "O 'Iesa (Jesus)! I will take you and raise you to Myself and clear you [of the forged statement that 'Iesa (Jesus) is Allah's son] of those who disbelieve, and I will make those who follow you (Monotheists, who worship none but Allah) superior to those who disbelieve [in the Oneness of Allah, or disbelieve in some of

O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allah aught but the truth. The Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His Word, ("Be!" - and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Ruh) created by Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not: "Three (trinity)!" Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allah is (the only) One Ilah (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs



(Remember) when Allah will say (on the Day of Resurrection). "O 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Remember My Favour to you and to your mother when I supported you with Ruh-ul-Qudus [Jibrael (Gabriel)] so that you spoke to the people in the cradle and in maturity; and when I taught you writing, Al-Hikmah (the power of understanding), the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel); and when you made out of the clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My Permission, and you breathed into it, and it became a bird by My Permission, and you healed those born blind, and the lepers by My Permission, and when you brought forth the dead by My Permission; and when I restrained the Children of Israel from you (when they resolved to kill you) since you came unto them with clear proofs, and the disbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.' "

111. And when I (Allah) put in the hearts of Al-Hawarieen (the disciples) [of 'Iesa (Jesus)] to believe in Me and My Messenger, they said: "We believe. And bear witness that we are Muslims."

The word "trinity" is not in the Arabic text. It says "don't say three." Three what? Three Gods? Christians do not believe in three Gods.

It seems the author of the Qur'an thought the three were Allah, Jesus and Mary.

There is no verse in the Qur'an that shows what the Trinity really is.

How does Allah create? By saying "be." Does that mean you believe in two gods -- Allah and his Word?
 
Upvote 0

GeorgeTwo

Member
May 31, 2008
1,127
126
✟39,702.00
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Private
who told you so ..the story of jesus is in the Quran:
Jesus in the Quran - IslamiCity
CH2: Jesus in the Quran


And indeed, We gave Musa (Moses) the Book and followed him up with a succession of Messengers. And We gave 'Iesa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), clear signs and supported him with Ruh-ul-Qudus [Jibrael (Gabriel)]. Is it that whenever there came to you a Messenger with what you yourselves desired not, you grew arrogant? Some, you disbelieved and some, you killed.


Those Messengers! We preferred some to others; to some of them Allah spoke (directly); others He raised to degrees (of honour); and to 'Iesa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), We gave clear proofs and evidences, and supported him with Ruh-ul-Qudus [Jibrael (Gabriel)]. If Allah had willed, succeeding generations would not have fought against each other, after clear Verses of Allah had come to them, but they differed - some of them believed and others disbelieved. If Allah had willed, they would not have fought against one another, but Allah does what He likes

(Remember) when the angels said: "O Maryam (Mary)! Verily, Allah gives you the glad tidings of a Word ["Be!" - and he was! i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus) the son of Maryam (Mary)] from Him, his name will be the Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), held in honour in this world and in the Hereafter, and will be one of those who are near to Allah."


And (remember) when Allah said: "O 'Iesa (Jesus)! I will take you and raise you to Myself and clear you [of the forged statement that 'Iesa (Jesus) is Allah's son] of those who disbelieve, and I will make those who follow you (Monotheists, who worship none but Allah) superior to those who disbelieve [in the Oneness of Allah, or disbelieve in some of

O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allah aught but the truth. The Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His Word, ("Be!" - and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Ruh) created by Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not: "Three (trinity)!" Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allah is (the only) One Ilah (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs



(Remember) when Allah will say (on the Day of Resurrection). "O 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Remember My Favour to you and to your mother when I supported you with Ruh-ul-Qudus [Jibrael (Gabriel)] so that you spoke to the people in the cradle and in maturity; and when I taught you writing, Al-Hikmah (the power of understanding), the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel); and when you made out of the clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My Permission, and you breathed into it, and it became a bird by My Permission, and you healed those born blind, and the lepers by My Permission, and when you brought forth the dead by My Permission; and when I restrained the Children of Israel from you (when they resolved to kill you) since you came unto them with clear proofs, and the disbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.' "

111. And when I (Allah) put in the hearts of Al-Hawarieen (the disciples) [of 'Iesa (Jesus)] to believe in Me and My Messenger, they said: "We believe. And bear witness that we are Muslims."

For Allah is (the only) One Ilah (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs.

Did your Allah really believe that Christians believe that God had sex with Mary and Jesus was the result?

Apparently, so:

Surah 2:116, "They say: "God hath begotten a son:" Glory be to Him.Nay, to him belongs all that is in the heavens and on earth: everything renders worship to Him."

Commentary in my Qur'an:

"It is a derogation from the glory of God in fact it is blasphemy to say that God begets sons, like a man or an animal. The Christian doctrine is here emphatically repudiated. If words have any meaning, it would mean an attribution to God of a material nature, and of the lower animal functions of sex."
 
Upvote 0

GeorgeTwo

Member
May 31, 2008
1,127
126
✟39,702.00
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Private
jesus is the spirit of god for us muslims so he cannot be killed...jesus didn't die when they wanted to kill him ALLAH lifted him up to the sky why?? because he has a great mission at the end of the world he will save the whole world..he is not alive next to god

What do you think happened to Jesus? How did He avoid death? Who was on the cross if it wasn't Jesus?
 
Upvote 0

Niblo

Muslim
Site Supporter
Dec 23, 2014
1,052
279
78
Wales.
✟221,145.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Married
Concerning Al-Nisa: 155-158: ‘And so for breaking their pledge, for rejecting Allāh’s revelations, for unjustly killing their prophets, for saying: “Our minds are closed” - No! Allāh has sealed them in their disbelief, so they believe only a little - and because they disbelieved and uttered a terrible slander against Mary, and said: “We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of Allāh.” They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, though it was made to appear like that to them; those that disagreed about him are full of doubt, with no knowledge to follow, only supposition: they certainly did not kill him - Allāh raised him up to Himself. Allāh is almighty and wise.’

I’ve spent a while learning (and in some cases re-learning) what the Qur’an and others have to say about the crucifixion. I’ve read extracts of the tafâsîr (interpretations of the Qur’an) of Wahb Ibn Munabbih; Ṭabarî; Makkî Ibn Abi Ṭâlib; Qurṭubî; Ibn Kathîr; Suyûṭî; Ṭabâṭabâ’î ; and Jazâ’irî. All of them (apart from Ṭabâṭabâ’î) are saying that Yeshua (ʿalayhi as-salām) was not crucified, but that another was made to resemble him - and to take his place. It is not possible to justify, from Al-Nisa: 155-158, any notion of a substitute.

There are those who say that the Qur’an is denying only that the Jews crucified Yeshua. Not so. The Qur’an is saying that Yeshua was not crucified (killed) at all - not by the Jews, and not by anyone else.

Some agree with this; but only to argue that it was Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla) Himself who did the killing. In support of their argument they quote: ‘Those who say: “Allāh is the Messiah, the son of Mary,” are defying the truth. Say: “If it had been Allāh’s will, could anyone have prevented Him from destroying the Messiah, son of Mary, together with his mother and everyone else on earth? Control of the heavens and earth and all that is between them belongs to Allāh: He creates whatever He will. God has power over everything.’ (Al-Ma’ida: 17); and this: ‘No soul may die except with Allāh’s permission at a predestined time.’ (Al‘Imran 145); and this: ‘The Father loves me, because I lay down my life in order to take it up again. No one takes it from me; I lay it down of my own free will.’ (John 10: 17-18); and even this: ‘. . . it was the Lord's will to crush him . . .’ (From Isaiah 53: 1-12).

Comment:

The Qur’an uses two different terms when referring to death: ‘mawt’ and ‘tawaffâ’. The former is the Qur’an’s usual term for death.

Mawt:

A major point of distinction between ‘mawt’ and ‘tawaffâ’ is that only the former is associated with murder or manslaughter (‘qatala’). We see examples of the use of ‘qatala’ (and its derivatives) in the following: ‘And Pharaoh said: “Leave me to kill Moses (aqtulu Musa) - let him call upon his Lord! - for I fear he may cause you to change your religion, or spread disorder in the land.”’ (Ghafi: 26); and again: ‘They were struck with humiliation and wretchedness, and they incurred the wrath of Allāh because they persistently rejected His messages and killed (yaqtuloona) prophets contrary to all that is right. All this was because they disobeyed and were lawbreakers.’ (Al-Baqara: 61); and again: ‘Allāh has certainly heard the words of those who sneer, “So Allāh is poor, while we are rich”. We shall record everything they say – as well as their killing (wa qatlahum) of prophets in defiance of all that is right – and We shall say to them: “Taste the torment of the scorching fire.”’ (Al‘Imran: 181). There are several others verses where derivatives of ‘qatala’ are used when describing the death of prophets.

With ‘mawt’ comes the natural decomposition of the body; its return to dust. There is no return from ‘mawt’, save on the Day of Resurrection.

As far as I can tell, derivatives of ‘mawt’ and ‘qatala’- used as expressions of normal death when referring to the demise of all other prophets - are never used for Yeshua. The term used to describe his departure is a derivative of ‘tawaffâ’. This appears to make the manner of his leaving something special.

Tawaffâ:

‘Tawaffâ’ invokes the notion of completion and fulfilment. The Qur’anic image of death through ‘tawaffâ’ is quite different from that of ‘mawt’. For a start, ‘tawaffâ’ is never associated with ‘qatala’; instead, it is juxtaposed with ‘nawm’ (sleep). On two occasions sleep is described as a repeated nightly death (‘tawaffâ bil layl’): ‘It is He who calls your souls back by night, knowing what you have done by day, then raises you up again in the daytime until your fixed term is fulfilled. It is to Him that you will return in the end, and He will tell you what you have done.’ (Al-An‘am: 60); and again: ‘Allāh takes the souls of the dead and the souls of the living while they sleep – He keeps hold of those whose death He has ordained and sends the others back until their appointed time – there truly are signs in this for those who reflect.’ (Al-Zumar: 42).

In the Qur’an the term ‘an appointed time’ is used in a general sense for the cycles of the sun and moon: ‘He makes the night merge into the day and the day into the night; He has subjected the sun and the moon - each runs for an appointed term.’ (Fatir: 13); for the waiting period associated with divorce: ‘If you are in doubt, the period of waiting will be three months for those women who have ceased menstruating and for those who have not (yet) menstruated; for the waiting period of those who are pregnant will be until they deliver their burden: ‘Allāh makes things easy for those who are mindful of Him.’ (Al-Talaq: 4); for the time that a widow has to wait before she can remarry: ‘If any of you die and leave widows, the widows should wait for four months and ten nights before remarrying.’ (Al-Baqara: 234); and when contracting the period of a loan: ‘You who believe, when you contract a debt for a stated term, put it down in writing: have a scribe write it down justly between you.’ (Al-Baqara: 282).

The term is also applied, of course, in a particular sense to one’s predestined time for living.

It is worth noting that whenever a verse includes a reference to a person’s predestined death the term used is always ‘mawt’. There are no exceptions. This suggests that when we reach our ‘appointed time’ we experience, not ‘tawaffâ’, but ‘mawt’; with no chance to return to life, save at the Day of Resurrection: ‘No soul may die except with Allāh’s permission at a predestined time. If anyone strives for the rewards of this world, We will give him some of them. If anyone strives for the rewards of the Hereafter, We will give him some of them: We will reward the grateful.’ (Al‘Imran: 145).

There is no notion of physical damage or decomposition in ‘tawaffâ’. Likewise, there is no notion of a ‘non-return’ (as there is in ‘mawt’). It might be better, therefore, to avoid understanding and translating ‘tawaffâ’ as ‘death’; or ‘to die’; or ‘to cause to die’. People return from ‘tawaffâ’ every night of their lives. What makes the last experience of ‘tawaffâ’ non-returnable - as when someone dies in their sleep - lies not in tawaffâ own nature, but in its combination with ‘mawt’.

There is nothing in the Qur’an to support the claim that Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla) killed Yeshua; and nothing to justify the notion that he killed himself. But what are we to make of the words: ‘Allāh said: “Jesus, I will take you back and raise you up to Me.”’ (Al‘Imran: 55).

The word ‘take’ in ‘I will take you back’ translates ‘mutawaffi’. Its root, of course, is w-f-y; the root of tawaffâ (and not that of mawt). Some mufassirûn interpret ‘mutawaffi’ to mean that Yesuha died, and was taken in death. Other mufassirûn say that this interpretation is problematic, since – as we have seen - ‘tawaffâ’ is not the same as ‘mawt’.

It is for this reason, perhaps, that these same mufassirûn interpret ‘mutawaffi’ as a kind of sleep; since the Qur’an uses the same root (w-f-y) for sleeping, and - as we have seen - presents sleep as a kind of death.

The word ‘raise’ in ‘and raise you up to me’ translates ‘rafa‘a’ (‘to raise’) rather than ‘ba‘atha’, which is used elsewhere to mean ‘to resurrect’ after death. Commenting on this, Abu Musa al-Ash'ari writes: ‘There is a consensus among the community of the faithful that the Prophet Jesus (as) was raised alive to the heavens.’ (‘al-Ibana 'an Usul al-Diyana); and Hasan Basri Cantay writes: ‘Allah raised and lifted up the Prophet Jesus (as) in both body and soul.’ (Tafsir of the Qur'an); and Imam ibn Taymiyya writes: ‘The verse "He raised him to His Presence" … explains that the Prophet Jesus (as) was raised in both body and soul.’ (Majmu' Fatawa).

Citing both Al‘Imran 55 and Al-Nisa' 157-158, Zahid al-Kawthari claims that the ascension of Yeshua is beyond doubt: ‘That is because the basic meaning of the word rafa'a in the verses is transportation from below to above. There is no element here that could be used to interpret the verses metaphorically. Therefore, there is no evidence for seeking to produce a meaning in the sense of ascension in honour and station.’ (Nazra 'Abira fi Maza'im; page 93).

The argument that Yeshua was raised alive - both body and soul - is strengthen by the use of the word ‘bal’ that appears in Al-Nisa 157-158. By way of explanation, Sheikh al-Islam Mustafa Sabri writes:

‘If the term ‘bal’, which appears in Surat Al-Nisa' 158 and which I have translated as "on the contrary," comes after a sentence expressing a negativity, then, according to the rules of Arabic linguistics, the sentence following it must mean the exact opposite of the one preceding it. The opposite of death is life. This is a requirement of the rules of linguistics. If we say that "the ascension here is a spiritual one" and "the Prophet Jesus (as) died in the normal sense," then we are violating that rule. In that case, the ascension following the expression "on the contrary" would not represent the opposite to the verbs of "killing" and "crucifying" in the negative sentence preceding it. That is because it may be possible for a person to be killed and for his or her soul to rise to the skies. Otherwise, this term would be meaningless, and there are no meaningless terms in the Qur'an … According to those who support the thesis that the ascension is only one of the soul, the meaning of the verse is this: "They did not kill him and did not crucify him … on the contrary (‘bal’), Allah raised his station." There is no particular oratory here, let alone succinctness … No rational person could take the words "The elevator in my building raises me to the fourth floor every day," to mean that I am only raised to the fourth floor in spirit. Therefore, neither was the Prophet Jesus (as) raised only in spirit. (‘Position of Reason’; page 233).

Said Ramadan al-Buti interpreted the subject in the same way: ‘The mutual compatibility between the verses’ previous and later sections necessarily reveals a fact. For example, if an Arab says: "I am not hungry; on the contrary, I am lying on my side," this is not a correct sentence. In the same way, there is a discrepancy between the components in the sentence: "Khalid did not die; on the contrary, he is a good man." What would be correct is to say: "Khalid did not die; on the contrary, he is alive." To say: "The chairman was not killed; he is a man with a superior station in Allah's Presence" also leads to a break in meaning in the sentence, for his having a high station in Allah's Sight is no obstacle to his being killed. The term bal expresses a contradiction between the preceding and the following words. In other words, bal cancels out a previous statement. ('Islamic Catechism': page 338).

The conclusion (justified in my view) is that Yeshua (ʿalayhi as-salām) did not die, but was merely removed from this dimension by the Will of Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla); and He knows best.
 
Upvote 0

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
30,684
18,560
Orlando, Florida
✟1,262,971.00
Country
United States
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Politics
US-Democrat
At one time in the middle ages there was a minority interpretation that said Jesus died because Allah willed it, thus the Jews were not his killers. But that school of Islam died out, and the overwhelming opinion in Islam is that Jesus only seemed to be crucified.
 
Upvote 0

GeorgeTwo

Member
May 31, 2008
1,127
126
✟39,702.00
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Private
At one time in the middle ages there was a minority interpretation that said Jesus died because Allah willed it, thus the Jews were not his killers. But that school of Islam died out, and the overwhelming opinion in Islam is that Jesus only seemed to be crucified.

There is another Islamic view and that is that Allah put Jesus' face on someone else and that person was crucified. Many Muslim scholars are backing away from that view because it makes Allah deceptive.
 
Upvote 0

GeorgeTwo

Member
May 31, 2008
1,127
126
✟39,702.00
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Private
The conclusion (justified in my view) is that Yeshua (ʿalayhi as-salām) did not die, but was merely removed from this dimension by the Will of Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla); and He knows best.

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying.

When was Jesus removed from this dimension?

We have to look at the chain of custody:

If Jesus was supposedly never crucified, or died, or buried, we have to ask: the question: Who was the crucified One?

The Crucifixion: A matter of the chain-of-custody

A question came regarding the Crucifixion of Jesus to prove:

(1) that anyone saw Jesus dead, and

(2) that anyone removed the dead body of Jesus from the cross, and

(3) that anyone put His dead body in a tomb.

These three questions involve the chain-of-custody of Jesus and his body. They seem to best be broken down into the following five parts:

(A) Jesus was identified as being arrested, tortured, and hung on cross.

(B) Jesus was identified as remaining on the cross till death.

(C) proof of the death of Jesus on the cross.

(D) proof of the removal of the same dead body from the cross.

(E) proof of the placement of that same dead body in a tomb.


This study is from the recording in the Bible by Matthew Levi, the son of Alphaeus, a servant of God and a companion and disciple of Jesus.

The Roman government, the Jewish rulers and the disciples of Jesus were confirming witnesses to these events. If the Jewish people were deceived into thinking that they had killed Jesus, that would have still made it necessary to also deceive the Roman government and even the very followers of Jesus, including his mother and closest friends and disciples to force them also to believe a complete falsehood.


(A) Jesus was identified as being arrested, tortured, and hung on cross

The "chain-of-custody" begins with the identification of Jesus by all 12 disciples (apostles) during the eating of the Last Supper at the Feast of Unleavened Bread on the night before the start of the full Passover commemoration. Judas left them (Mt 26:17-20).

Then the group proceeded under a full moon with plenty of moonlight (the 14th day of the month of Nisan) (Exodus 12:18) from the place of the Last Supper east across the Brook Kidron and to the Garden of Gethsemane at the Mount of Olives (Mt 26:30 & 36).

Judas Iscariot came and identified Jesus for the soldiers. Jesus also identified himself. Jesus healed the ear of the servant of the High Priest (Mt 26:47-56). Later Judas confirmed that he had betrayed an innocent man (Mt 27:3-8). Also, the temple chief priests confirm that the money given to Judas by them was "blood money" (Mt 27:6).

Jesus went with the temple soldiers, in their custody, to the house of Caiaphas many leaders there including the whole great Sanhedrin (the 70 ruling men in the Council). Jesus confirmed that he is the Messiah and the Son of the God. Because of this statement of his, they said Jesus had committed blasphemy and was deserving of death (Mt 26:57-68).

Jesus was transferred into the Roman custody of governor Pontius Pilate in the morning (Mt 27:1-2).

The wife of Pilate stated that she had a dream in the previous night hours that Pilate should have nothing to do with that "righteous man" (Mt 27:19).

The Roman governor, Pilate, delivered Jesus into the custody of his own professional Roman soldiers (Mt 27:26).

The Roman soldiers beat Jesus and put a crown of thorns on his head, thus specifically marking the top of his head and his body (Mt 27:27-30). These wounds would help identify the body of Jesus all the way to the cross, on the cross, and in post-resurrection appearances.

Jesus remained in the custody of Roman soldiers and was taken to the place of crucifixion (Mt 27:31-33).

Matthew, who was one of the 12 disciples, records that the Roman soldiers crucified Jesus, which means putting a live person on a cross (Mt 27:35).


(B) Jesus was identified as remaining on the cross till death

Jesus remained on the cross under guard by the Roman centurion (Mt 27:54) and soldiers. Some sat down to watch him die (Mt 27:36-37).

While hanging on the cross he was identified by:

1. The Roman centurion (officer over about 100 men) (Mt 27:54).

2. The Roman soldiers watching and who knew the wounds he had previously suffered (Mt 27:35-36).

3. The passersby who had heard him preach (Mt 27:39-40).

4. The chief priests (Mt 27:41).

5. The scribes (Mt 27:41).

6. The elders (Mt 27:41).

7. The two robbers who were also being executed (Mt 27:44).

8. The many women who had seen Jesus before were looking on (Mt 27:55-56).

9. His mother, Mary (John 19:26).

10. John, His disciple (John 19:26)


(C) proof of the death of Jesus on the cross

Matthew, a disciple, records that Jesus gave up his spirit, died (Mt 27:50).

Matthew refers to the resurrection of Jesus in a similar way to other dead people, saints, who were raised bodily from their tombs (Mt 27:52-53).

The Roman centurion (Mt 27:54) who was in charge of keeping guard over Jesus, refers to Jesus' life in the past tense after the death (Mt 27:54).

The dead body of Jesus was later ordered by the Roman governor to be given to Joseph who wrapped it in a clean linen cloth and who laid that body of Jesus in his own tomb (Mt 27:59-60).

The chief priests and Pharisees confirmed to the Roman governor that Jesus was dead (Mt 27:63-64).

Also the chief priests and Pharisees confirmed to the Roman governor that Jesus' body was in a grave (Mt 27:64).

Pilate, the Roman governor appointed a guard for the grave of the dead body of Jesus (Mt 27:65-66).

An angel of the Lord from Heaven confirmed that Jesus had been crucified, and had been dead (Mt 28:2-7). The women to whom this message was given told it to Matthew and the other disciples (Mt 28:7-10).


(D) proof of the removal of the same dead body of Jesus from the cross

The Roman soldiers then had custody of the dead body of Jesus (Mt 27:54).

Notice that not anyone could remove the dead body Jesus, the executed prisoner, from the custody of the Romans. Permission had to be obtained from the proper authority who had ordered the execution. In this case it was the Roman governor, Pilate (Mt 27:58).

A Jewish man, Joseph of Arimathea, who was a disciple and who would recognize Jesus, asked the Roman governor, Pilate, that he, Joseph, be allowed to receive the dead body of Jesus (Mt 27:57-58).

Pilate gave the order that the dead body of Jesus be given to Joseph (Mt 27:58).

Joseph took away the dead body of Jesus which had been ordered to be given to him by the governor, Pilate, and which was identified to him as such by the soldiers who guarded the body and also from his own identification of Jesus, because he was a disciple (Mt 27:57 & 59).

The chief priests, elders and the soldiers confirmed that the body in the tomb was that of Jesus. It was the same dead body of Jesus that the governor, Pilate, had ordered the soldiers to guard (Mt 28:11-15).


(E) proof of the placement of that same dead body of Jesus in a tomb

Pilate gave the order that the dead body of Jesus be given to Joseph (Mt 27:58). There is no evidence that any other body was given to him.

Joseph took custody of the dead body of Jesus which had been ordered to be given to him by the governor Pilate and which was identified to him as such by the soldiers who guarded the dead body and which Joseph must have been able to identify himself, because he was a disciple of Jesus (Mt 27:59).

Joseph kept custody of the body of Jesus and wrapped the body of Jesus in a clean linen cloth for burial (Mt 27:59).

Joseph laid the wrapped dead body of Jesus in his own new tomb (Mt 27:60).

Mary Magdalene and the other Mary who had been at the crucifixion came to that very grave (Mt 27:56 and 28:1).

An angel of the Lord from Heaven confirmed that Jesus had been buried at that very grave (Mt 28:1-6). The women to whom this message was given told it to Matthew and the other disciples (Mt 28:7-10). (source answering-islam)
 
Upvote 0

GeorgeTwo

Member
May 31, 2008
1,127
126
✟39,702.00
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Private
What I am saying is that it does not.

I agree. The Qur'an confirms the past revelations, but in fact the Qur'an contradicts the past revelations.

When Muslim scholars realized this error, they started claiming the Jews and Christians changed their Scriptures.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

GeorgeTwo

Member
May 31, 2008
1,127
126
✟39,702.00
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Private
[QUOTE="GeorgeTwo, post: 71151121, member: 226266" I agree. ]

Excellent! Then we are agreed: The Qur’an does not confirm the New Testament’s account of Jesus’ death and resurrection.

Thank you for your time.[/QUOTE]

I think you misunderstood me. The Qur'an does indeed say it confirms the New Testament and it's account of Jesus death and resurrection, but the Qur'an is wrong; it contradicts it.

This is an error in the Qur'an.

We will be using the A.J. Arberry translation of the Quran for the most part, and will note when a translation other than his is being used.

And believe in that I have sent down, confirming that which IS with you, and be not the first to disbelieve in it. And sell not My signs for a little price; and fear you Me. S. 2:41

And when there came to them a Book from Allah verifying that which they have, and aforetime they used to pray for victory against those who disbelieve, but when there came to them (Prophet) that which they did not recognize, they disbelieved in him; so Allah's curse is on the unbelievers. S. 2:89 Shakir

And when they were told, 'Believe in that God has sent down,' they said, 'We believe in what was sent down on us'; and they disbelieve in what is beyond that, yet it is the truth confirming what IS with them. Say: 'Why then were you slaying the Prophets of God in former time, if you were believers?' S. 2:91

Say: Whoever is the enemy of Jibreel -- for surely he revealed it to your heart by Allah's command, verifying that which IS before it and guidance and good news for the believers. S. 2:97 Shakir

And when there came to them an Apostle from Allah verifying that which they have, a party of those who were given the Book threw the Book of Allah behind their backs as if they knew nothing. S. 2:101 Shakir

He sent down to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming all previous scriptures, and He sent down the Torah and the Gospel. S. 3:3 Khalifa

And when God took compact with the Prophets: 'That I have given you of Book and Wisdom; then there shall come to you a Messenger confirming what IS with you -- you shall believe in him and you shall help him; do you agree?' He said. 'And do you take My load on you on that condition?' They said, 'We do agree.' God said, 'Bear witness so, and I shall be with you among the witnesses.' S. 3:81

You who have been given the Book, believe in what We have sent down, confirming what IS with you, before We obliterate faces, and turn them upon their backs, or curse them as We cursed the Sabbath-men, and God's command is done. S. 4:47

And We have revealed to you the Book with the truth, verifying what IS before it of the Book and a guardian over it, therefore judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires (to turn away) from the truth that has come to you; for every one of you did We appoint a law and a way, and if Allah had pleased He would have made you (all) a single people, but that He might try you in what He gave you, therefore strive with one another to hasten to virtuous deeds; to Allah is your return, of all (of you), so He will let you know that in which you differed; S. 5:48 Shakir

And this is a Book We have revealed, blessed, verifying that which IS before it, and that you may warn the metropolis and those around her; and those who believe in the hereafter believe in it, and they attend to their prayers constantly. S. 6:92 Shakir

This Koran could not have been forged apart from God; but it is a confirmation of what IS before it, and a distinguishing of the Book, wherein is no doubt, from the Lord of all Being. S. 10:37

In their stories is surely a lesson to men possessed of minds; it is not a tale forged, but a confirmation of what IS before it, and a distinguishing of every thing, and a guidance, and a mercy to a people who believe. S. 12:111

And that We have revealed to thee of the Book is the truth, confirming what IS before it; God is aware of and sees His servants. S. 35:31

No indeed; but he brought the truth, and confirmed the Envoys. S. 37:37

Yet before it was the Book of Moses for a model and a mercy; and this is a Book confirming, in Arabic tongue, to warn the evildoers, and good tidings to the good-doers. S. 46:12

They said: O our people! we have listened to a Book revealed after Musa verifying that which IS before it, guiding to the truth and to a right path: S. 46:30 Shakir

The foregoing passages are quite clear and very explicit regarding the Quran's position on the previous Scriptures. The author of the Quran believed that the Revelation which the Jews and Christians of his time had in their very own possessions, which would have been the Holy Bible, was God's true and preserved Word, and that the function of the Quran was to confirm them. But as anyone reading the Holy Bible and the Quran readily sees, the Quran does anything but confirm the previous Scriptures. This leads to the inevitable conclusion that the Quran is not God's Word. The Quran fails to do what it claims it was sent out to do, namely confirm the previous Scriptures. The Quran thereby falsifies itself since it testifies that the Holy Bible is God's Word while contradicting its core, essential doctrines at the same time.
Source: Answering-Islam)
 
Upvote 0

Niblo

Muslim
Site Supporter
Dec 23, 2014
1,052
279
78
Wales.
✟221,145.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Married
[QUOTE="GeorgeTwo, post: 71151566, member: 226266 I think you misunderstood me. The Qur'an does indeed say it confirms the New Testament and it's account of Jesus death and resurrection...


Ah....so the Qur'an confirms the New Testament account of Jesus' death and resurrection by denying - explicitly - that these events took place! Oh..... dear..........
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

GeorgeTwo

Member
May 31, 2008
1,127
126
✟39,702.00
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Private
[QUOTE="GeorgeTwo, post: 71151566, member: 226266 I think you misunderstood me. The Qur'an does indeed say it confirms the New Testament and it's account of Jesus death and resurrection...


Ah....so the Qur'an confirms the New Testament account of Jesus' death and resurrection by denying - explicitly - that these events took place! Oh..... dear..........

Yes, this is a mistake in the Qur'an.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

habibii zahra

Well-Known Member
Nov 16, 2016
812
96
36
lebanon
✟27,368.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Single
Concerning Al-Nisa: 155-158: ‘And so for breaking their pledge, for rejecting Allāh’s revelations, for unjustly killing their prophets, for saying: “Our minds are closed” - No! Allāh has sealed them in their disbelief, so they believe only a little - and because they disbelieved and uttered a terrible slander against Mary, and said: “We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of Allāh.” They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, though it was made to appear like that to them; those that disagreed about him are full of doubt, with no knowledge to follow, only supposition: they certainly did not kill him - Allāh raised him up to Himself. Allāh is almighty and wise.’

I’ve spent a while learning (and in some cases re-learning) what the Qur’an and others have to say about the crucifixion. I’ve read extracts of the tafâsîr (interpretations of the Qur’an) of Wahb Ibn Munabbih; Ṭabarî; Makkî Ibn Abi Ṭâlib; Qurṭubî; Ibn Kathîr; Suyûṭî; Ṭabâṭabâ’î ; and Jazâ’irî. All of them (apart from Ṭabâṭabâ’î) are saying that Yeshua (ʿalayhi as-salām) was not crucified, but that another was made to resemble him - and to take his place. It is not possible to justify, from Al-Nisa: 155-158, any notion of a substitute.

There are those who say that the Qur’an is denying only that the Jews crucified Yeshua. Not so. The Qur’an is saying that Yeshua was not crucified (killed) at all - not by the Jews, and not by anyone else.

Some agree with this; but only to argue that it was Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla) Himself who did the killing. In support of their argument they quote: ‘Those who say: “Allāh is the Messiah, the son of Mary,” are defying the truth. Say: “If it had been Allāh’s will, could anyone have prevented Him from destroying the Messiah, son of Mary, together with his mother and everyone else on earth? Control of the heavens and earth and all that is between them belongs to Allāh: He creates whatever He will. God has power over everything.’ (Al-Ma’ida: 17); and this: ‘No soul may die except with Allāh’s permission at a predestined time.’ (Al‘Imran 145); and this: ‘The Father loves me, because I lay down my life in order to take it up again. No one takes it from me; I lay it down of my own free will.’ (John 10: 17-18); and even this: ‘. . . it was the Lord's will to crush him . . .’ (From Isaiah 53: 1-12).

Comment:

The Qur’an uses two different terms when referring to death: ‘mawt’ and ‘tawaffâ’. The former is the Qur’an’s usual term for death.

Mawt:

A major point of distinction between ‘mawt’ and ‘tawaffâ’ is that only the former is associated with murder or manslaughter (‘qatala’). We see examples of the use of ‘qatala’ (and its derivatives) in the following: ‘And Pharaoh said: “Leave me to kill Moses (aqtulu Musa) - let him call upon his Lord! - for I fear he may cause you to change your religion, or spread disorder in the land.”’ (Ghafi: 26); and again: ‘They were struck with humiliation and wretchedness, and they incurred the wrath of Allāh because they persistently rejected His messages and killed (yaqtuloona) prophets contrary to all that is right. All this was because they disobeyed and were lawbreakers.’ (Al-Baqara: 61); and again: ‘Allāh has certainly heard the words of those who sneer, “So Allāh is poor, while we are rich”. We shall record everything they say – as well as their killing (wa qatlahum) of prophets in defiance of all that is right – and We shall say to them: “Taste the torment of the scorching fire.”’ (Al‘Imran: 181). There are several others verses where derivatives of ‘qatala’ are used when describing the death of prophets.

With ‘mawt’ comes the natural decomposition of the body; its return to dust. There is no return from ‘mawt’, save on the Day of Resurrection.

As far as I can tell, derivatives of ‘mawt’ and ‘qatala’- used as expressions of normal death when referring to the demise of all other prophets - are never used for Yeshua. The term used to describe his departure is a derivative of ‘tawaffâ’. This appears to make the manner of his leaving something special.

Tawaffâ:

‘Tawaffâ’ invokes the notion of completion and fulfilment. The Qur’anic image of death through ‘tawaffâ’ is quite different from that of ‘mawt’. For a start, ‘tawaffâ’ is never associated with ‘qatala’; instead, it is juxtaposed with ‘nawm’ (sleep). On two occasions sleep is described as a repeated nightly death (‘tawaffâ bil layl’): ‘It is He who calls your souls back by night, knowing what you have done by day, then raises you up again in the daytime until your fixed term is fulfilled. It is to Him that you will return in the end, and He will tell you what you have done.’ (Al-An‘am: 60); and again: ‘Allāh takes the souls of the dead and the souls of the living while they sleep – He keeps hold of those whose death He has ordained and sends the others back until their appointed time – there truly are signs in this for those who reflect.’ (Al-Zumar: 42).

In the Qur’an the term ‘an appointed time’ is used in a general sense for the cycles of the sun and moon: ‘He makes the night merge into the day and the day into the night; He has subjected the sun and the moon - each runs for an appointed term.’ (Fatir: 13); for the waiting period associated with divorce: ‘If you are in doubt, the period of waiting will be three months for those women who have ceased menstruating and for those who have not (yet) menstruated; for the waiting period of those who are pregnant will be until they deliver their burden: ‘Allāh makes things easy for those who are mindful of Him.’ (Al-Talaq: 4); for the time that a widow has to wait before she can remarry: ‘If any of you die and leave widows, the widows should wait for four months and ten nights before remarrying.’ (Al-Baqara: 234); and when contracting the period of a loan: ‘You who believe, when you contract a debt for a stated term, put it down in writing: have a scribe write it down justly between you.’ (Al-Baqara: 282).

The term is also applied, of course, in a particular sense to one’s predestined time for living.

It is worth noting that whenever a verse includes a reference to a person’s predestined death the term used is always ‘mawt’. There are no exceptions. This suggests that when we reach our ‘appointed time’ we experience, not ‘tawaffâ’, but ‘mawt’; with no chance to return to life, save at the Day of Resurrection: ‘No soul may die except with Allāh’s permission at a predestined time. If anyone strives for the rewards of this world, We will give him some of them. If anyone strives for the rewards of the Hereafter, We will give him some of them: We will reward the grateful.’ (Al‘Imran: 145).

There is no notion of physical damage or decomposition in ‘tawaffâ’. Likewise, there is no notion of a ‘non-return’ (as there is in ‘mawt’). It might be better, therefore, to avoid understanding and translating ‘tawaffâ’ as ‘death’; or ‘to die’; or ‘to cause to die’. People return from ‘tawaffâ’ every night of their lives. What makes the last experience of ‘tawaffâ’ non-returnable - as when someone dies in their sleep - lies not in tawaffâ own nature, but in its combination with ‘mawt’.

There is nothing in the Qur’an to support the claim that Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla) killed Yeshua; and nothing to justify the notion that he killed himself. But what are we to make of the words: ‘Allāh said: “Jesus, I will take you back and raise you up to Me.”’ (Al‘Imran: 55).

The word ‘take’ in ‘I will take you back’ translates ‘mutawaffi’. Its root, of course, is w-f-y; the root of tawaffâ (and not that of mawt). Some mufassirûn interpret ‘mutawaffi’ to mean that Yesuha died, and was taken in death. Other mufassirûn say that this interpretation is problematic, since – as we have seen - ‘tawaffâ’ is not the same as ‘mawt’.

It is for this reason, perhaps, that these same mufassirûn interpret ‘mutawaffi’ as a kind of sleep; since the Qur’an uses the same root (w-f-y) for sleeping, and - as we have seen - presents sleep as a kind of death.

The word ‘raise’ in ‘and raise you up to me’ translates ‘rafa‘a’ (‘to raise’) rather than ‘ba‘atha’, which is used elsewhere to mean ‘to resurrect’ after death. Commenting on this, Abu Musa al-Ash'ari writes: ‘There is a consensus among the community of the faithful that the Prophet Jesus (as) was raised alive to the heavens.’ (‘al-Ibana 'an Usul al-Diyana); and Hasan Basri Cantay writes: ‘Allah raised and lifted up the Prophet Jesus (as) in both body and soul.’ (Tafsir of the Qur'an); and Imam ibn Taymiyya writes: ‘The verse "He raised him to His Presence" … explains that the Prophet Jesus (as) was raised in both body and soul.’ (Majmu' Fatawa).

Citing both Al‘Imran 55 and Al-Nisa' 157-158, Zahid al-Kawthari claims that the ascension of Yeshua is beyond doubt: ‘That is because the basic meaning of the word rafa'a in the verses is transportation from below to above. There is no element here that could be used to interpret the verses metaphorically. Therefore, there is no evidence for seeking to produce a meaning in the sense of ascension in honour and station.’ (Nazra 'Abira fi Maza'im; page 93).

The argument that Yeshua was raised alive - both body and soul - is strengthen by the use of the word ‘bal’ that appears in Al-Nisa 157-158. By way of explanation, Sheikh al-Islam Mustafa Sabri writes:

‘If the term ‘bal’, which appears in Surat Al-Nisa' 158 and which I have translated as "on the contrary," comes after a sentence expressing a negativity, then, according to the rules of Arabic linguistics, the sentence following it must mean the exact opposite of the one preceding it. The opposite of death is life. This is a requirement of the rules of linguistics. If we say that "the ascension here is a spiritual one" and "the Prophet Jesus (as) died in the normal sense," then we are violating that rule. In that case, the ascension following the expression "on the contrary" would not represent the opposite to the verbs of "killing" and "crucifying" in the negative sentence preceding it. That is because it may be possible for a person to be killed and for his or her soul to rise to the skies. Otherwise, this term would be meaningless, and there are no meaningless terms in the Qur'an … According to those who support the thesis that the ascension is only one of the soul, the meaning of the verse is this: "They did not kill him and did not crucify him … on the contrary (‘bal’), Allah raised his station." There is no particular oratory here, let alone succinctness … No rational person could take the words "The elevator in my building raises me to the fourth floor every day," to mean that I am only raised to the fourth floor in spirit. Therefore, neither was the Prophet Jesus (as) raised only in spirit. (‘Position of Reason’; page 233).

Said Ramadan al-Buti interpreted the subject in the same way: ‘The mutual compatibility between the verses’ previous and later sections necessarily reveals a fact. For example, if an Arab says: "I am not hungry; on the contrary, I am lying on my side," this is not a correct sentence. In the same way, there is a discrepancy between the components in the sentence: "Khalid did not die; on the contrary, he is a good man." What would be correct is to say: "Khalid did not die; on the contrary, he is alive." To say: "The chairman was not killed; he is a man with a superior station in Allah's Presence" also leads to a break in meaning in the sentence, for his having a high station in Allah's Sight is no obstacle to his being killed. The term bal expresses a contradiction between the preceding and the following words. In other words, bal cancels out a previous statement. ('Islamic Catechism': page 338).

The conclusion (justified in my view) is that Yeshua (ʿalayhi as-salām) did not die, but was merely removed from this dimension by the Will of Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla); and He knows best.
ALLAH is not poor ..ALLAH is very generous..look at the good things you have..it is from god..so why are you saying god is poor
 
Upvote 0

Niblo

Muslim
Site Supporter
Dec 23, 2014
1,052
279
78
Wales.
✟221,145.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Married
ALLAH is not poor ..ALLAH is very generous..look at the good things you have..it is from god..so why are you saying god is poor

I was quoting from the Qur’an: ‘Allāh has certainly heard the words of those who sneer, “So Allāh is poor, while we are rich”. We shall record everything they say – as well as their killing (wa qatlahum) of prophets in defiance of all that is right – and We shall say to them: “Taste the torment of the scorching fire.”’ (Al‘Imran: 181).

Please read the quote in the context of my post, and refrain from making hasty, and false, allegations.
 
Upvote 0

habibii zahra

Well-Known Member
Nov 16, 2016
812
96
36
lebanon
✟27,368.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Single
I was quoting from the Qur’an: ‘Allāh has certainly heard the words of those who sneer, “So Allāh is poor, while we are rich”. We shall record everything they say – as well as their killing (wa qatlahum) of prophets in defiance of all that is right – and We shall say to them: “Taste the torment of the scorching fire.”’ (Al‘Imran: 181).

Please read the quote in the context of my post, and refrain from making hasty, and false, allegations.
no you took it from its context the verse says: "ALLAH has heard those who said ALLAH is poor and we are rich" the verse doesn't say ALLAH is poor ..some people said ALLAH is poor which is totally wrong...so try not to take the verse from its context
 
Upvote 0

withwonderingawe

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2015
3,592
510
71
Salem Ut
✟161,549.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Surah 4:154

Literal
(Word by Word)


And We raised over them the mount for their covenant, and We said to them, "Enter the gate, prostrating." And We said to them. "(Do) not transgress in the Sabbath." And We took from them a covenant solemn.


Who is “them”? The Jews.


Surah 4:155

Literal
(Word by Word)


Then because of their breaking (of) their covenant and their disbelief in (the) Signs (of) Allah and their killing (of) the Prophets without any right and their saying, "Our hearts (are) wrapped." Nay, Allah (has) set a seal on their (hearts) for their disbelief so not they believe except a few.


Who is “their”? The Jews.

Surah 4:156


Literal
(Word by Word)


And for their disbelief and their saying against Maryam a slander great.


Who is “their”? The Jews.

Surah 4:157


Literal
(Word by Word)


And for their saying, "Indeed, we killed the Messiah, Isa, son (of) Maryam, (the) Messenger (of) Allah." And not they killed him and not they crucified him but it was made to appear (so) to them. And indeed, those who differ in it (are) surely in doubt about it. Not for them about it [of] (any) knowledge except (the) following (of) assumption. And not they killed him, certainly.


Who is “their” ; “we”; and “they”? The Jews.

Yusuf Ali (Saudi Rev. 1985)
clip_image001.gif



That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-


Shakir
clip_image001.gif



And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the messenger of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure.


Surah 4:158


Literal
(Word by Word)


Nay, Allah raised him towards Him. And Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise.


It is obvious that Surah 4:157 is speaking of the Jews. The verse is saying that the Jews did not kill the Messiah, nor did the Jews crucify Jesus.

This is correct because it was the Romans who killed and crucified Jesus.

Surah 4:158 is pointing out that Jesus is alive after the Romans killed Him. He resurrected from the dead.

The Qur’an confirms the New Testament’s account of Jesus’ death and resurrection.

Jesus also said;
John 10:
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

and then Luke 23
46 ¶ And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

The Son gave his life they didn't take it!
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Niblo

Muslim
Site Supporter
Dec 23, 2014
1,052
279
78
Wales.
✟221,145.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Married
no you took it from its context the verse says: "ALLAH has heard those who said ALLAH is poor and we are rich" the verse doesn't say ALLAH is poor ..some people said ALLAH is poor which is totally wrong...so try not to take the verse from its context

I'm sorry, sister, but you are misunderstanding my purpose.

Where do I say that the message of this verse is that Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla) is poor?

The message of this verse is - as you say - that certain people claim (falsely) that He is poor; and that Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla) will hold them to account for this, and for their 'killing (wa qatlahum) of prophets in defiance of all that is right.'

I am not one of those who say that Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla) is poor. Please be assured of this, and put your mind at rest.

My use of Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla)'s words (as expressed in this verse - along with others) was to demonstrate the difference between ‘mawt’ (which is associated with 'qatlahum' - a derivative of 'qatala’); and ‘tawaffâ’ (which is not associated with ‘qatala' at all).

I go on to say that as far as I can tell: '....derivatives of ‘mawt’ and ‘qatala’- used as expressions of normal death when referring to the demise of all other prophets - are never used for Yeshua. The term used to describe his departure is a derivative of ‘tawaffâ’. This appears to make the manner of his leaving something special.'

This is the context I speak off; and as such my use of the verse is perfectly valid.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0