The question of the snake in Genesis.

[AV1611VET]

It's just a pity you don't stand by your motto, you are like Christians who don't act like Christ.

I beg your pardon?

Who said " I like your Christ but not your Christians"? was it Gandhi?

Yes.

Hitler's friend, Gandhi.

 

[justlookinla]

1 John 2:22 He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

 

[Standing_Ultraviolet]

Hitler's friend, Gandhi.

You...have actually read the letter where Gandhi refers to Adolf Hitler as his dear friend, right?

 

[AV1611VET]

You...have actually read the letter where Gandhi refers to Adolf Hitler as his dear friend, right?

No -- I don't snoop in other people's mail.

It's against the law.

 

[JayFern]

I beg your pardon?

Yes.

Hitler's friend, Gandhi.

You...have actually read the letter where Gandhi refers to Adolf Hitler as his dear friend, right?

No they [perhaps his pastor] told him to believe it was true so he does.

 

[AV1611VET]

No they [perhaps his pastor] told him to believe it was true so he does.

Told me what was true?

 

[Linuxgal]

You...have actually read the letter where Gandhi refers to Adolf Hitler as his dear friend, right?

Isn't there a "Godwin" rule where a thread is terminated when the name Hitler is invoked to put somebody down?

 

[JayFern]

Told me what was true?

Whatever they wanted you to believe.

 

[JacksBratt]

Apparently requires, since he "could not" drive out the hill people with their chariots of iron, and Jesus "could do no mighty works" in his home town. If it was demands instead of requires, the text would read "would not drive" and "would not do".

He "requires" it only as a means to justify the grace He would give them.

Historically, the Jewish people would wander from following God until He took His protection from them and they fell into devistation, losing wars, losing land, becoming slaves. Then, some prophet or Godly man would listen to God and get them back on track. Back on the path God wanted them on. God would not support them if they were not following Him.

This is the case of the scenerio that you present. God was helping them until they stopped trusting Him and putting their faith in Him. He could no longer protect them and give them victory or He would be rewarding their unfaithfullness. This is not the way of God. He has the power to do anything, but not if the person is acting irrisponsible, ungodly, unfaithull or unrighteous. This will never be rewarded, honored or given grace or mercy.

To say God was unable at this time is not truthful. To say He needs the faith to help Him out, again is wrong. We need faith to help ourselves.

 

[JacksBratt]

You are scraping the very bottom now AV, why not just say you believe it all no matter what and move on?

Defend, defend, defend that's all Christians ever do because they are trying there best to believe a myth.

We defend defend defend because we are challenged challenged challenged.

 

[mmksparbud]

And this faith, is it a gift of God, or is it of ourselves, so that every man can boast, contrary to Ephesians 2:8-9 ?

If it is a gift of God, why didn't he give it to the Israelites in the book of Judges and the folks in Nazareth in the book of Mark?

God gives faith to everyone--it is, however, up to them to exercise it!

(1Th 3:10) Night and day praying exceedingly that we might see your face, and might perfect that which is lacking in your faith?

(2Th 1:3) We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth;

(2Co 10:15) Not boasting of things without our measure, that is, of other men's labours; but having hope, when your faith is increased, that we shall be enlarged by you according to our rule abundantly,

If you don't use it, it will not grow and ,in fact, diminish
(Deu 32:20) And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

perhaps as elsewhere it is written, instead of faith in Yhvh, they have faith in themselves , or in power, or in money , or in 'patriotism', or in friend or family ?
and so, where they put their faith, by their choice,
so they end up.

God gives faith to everyone--it is, however, up to them to exercise it!
......
(Deu 32:20) And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

 

[justlookinla]

And this faith, is it a gift of God, or is it of ourselves, so that every man can boast, contrary to Ephesians 2:8-9 ?

If it is a gift of God, why didn't he give it to the Israelites in the book of Judges and the folks in Nazareth in the book of Mark?

What does this have to do with creationism/evolution?

 

[AV1611VET]

We defend defend defend because we are challenged challenged challenged.

Yup! Yup! Yup!

 

[justlookinla]

Yup! Yup! Yup!

Amen, amen, amen!

 

[PsychoSarah]

The theology around the personage of Jesus derives from elements of the Judaism of the era, including the personhood of the Memra (Word) of the Lord in the Aramaic Targums and the "two powers in heaven" theology of a binitarian YHWH. Such beliefs were widespread and orthodox in 2nd temple Judaism, and then declared heretical in the 2nd century after the rise of Christianity.

It explains why the first believers, who were all Jews, could worship Jesus while still considering themselves followers of orthodox Judaism.

This is a big and fascinating (to me) subject. If you're really interested in it I have some resources I can share.

I would definitely be interested in those sources.

 

[ChetSinger]

I would definitely be interested in those sources.

Sure. Here's a portal that points to various sources: Two Powers in Heaven - Home. After reading the introduction, check out the bibliography.

The granddaddy is Dr. Alan Segal's book Two Powers in Heaven: Early Rabbinic Reports about Christianity and Gnosticism.

The Pentateuchal Targumim can be found at Pentateuchal Targumim | NTCS – IOTS. I suggest browsing through Targum Pseudo-Jonathan beginning with Genesis, looking for the phrase "word of the Lord" in the text. If you're familiar with the scriptures you'll notice that "the word of the Lord" replaces "the Lord" in key places. For example, it's "the word of the Lord" who created man, who closed the ark's hatch behind Noah, and who makes agreements with men. Then, remember that the NT calls Jesus "the Word of God", and says of him "the Word became flesh and lived among us, full of grace and truth". This is why Jesus' followers could worship him yet still consider themselves Jewish: They believed Jesus was the Word of the Lord as described in their Aramaic Bibles, appearing among them in their time. And any appearance of the Word of the Lord was an appearance of the Lord himself.

 

[justlookinla]

I would definitely be interested in those sources.

Sure. Here's a portal that points to various sources: Two Powers in Heaven - Home. After reading the introduction, check out the bibliography.

The granddaddy is Dr. Alan Segal's book Two Powers in Heaven: Early Rabbinic Reports about Christianity and Gnosticism.

The Pentateuchal Targumim can be found at Pentateuchal Targumim | NTCS – IOTS. I suggest browsing through Targum Pseudo-Jonathan beginning with Genesis, looking for the phrase "word of the Lord" in the text. If you're familiar with the scriptures you'll notice that "the word of the Lord" replaces "the Lord" in key places. For example, it's "the word of the Lord" who created man, who closed the ark's hatch behind Noah, and who makes agreements with men. Then, remember that the NT calls Jesus "the Word of God", and says of him "the Word became flesh and lived among us, full of grace and truth". This is why Jesus' followers could worship him yet still consider themselves Jewish: They believed Jesus was the Word of the Lord as described in their Aramaic Bibles, appearing among them in their time. And any appearance of the Word of the Lord was an appearance of the Lord himself.

This is another view on Two Powers In Heaven also...

http://www.friendsofsabbath.org/Further_Research/Godhead/Two%20Powers%20in%20Heaven.pdf

 

[ChetSinger]

This is another view on Two Powers In Heaven also...

http://www.friendsofsabbath.org/Further_Research/Godhead/Two%20Powers%20in%20Heaven.pdf

I've started reading it and it looks very promising. Thanks for posting it.