The question of the snake in Genesis.

yeshuaslavejeff · Nov 28, 2014

look around. that which is appearing as an angel of light is deceiving people today. no one in the forum is listening to a (physical) snake, are they ?

all around there are those 'appearing as angels (or messengers) of light to members and visitors alike.

but there aren't any listening to talking (biological) snakes.....

Ryukil · Nov 28, 2014

I found this quote from Voltaire on the issue. Yay, Voltaire agrees with me! "It was so decidedly a real serpent, that all its species, which had before walked on their feet, were condemned to crawl on their bellies. No serpent, no animal of any kind, is called Satan, or Belzebub, or Devil, in the Pentateuch."

Split Rock · Nov 29, 2014

juvenissun said:
I stopped teaching when a person stop learning.

You cannot stop something you never started in the first place.

mmksparbud · Nov 29, 2014

yeshuaslavejeff said:
well, anything is possible.... or is it?

some websites, long since past (search if you like) , of biblical, hebrew and ancient knowledge and customs and inclinations , honoring yhvh and not man nor man's traditions,

showed , right or wrong, that what deceives believers today is the same as what deceived chavah at the beginning,

i.e. "an angel of light"

and that no matter how or when or where or why the truth of this is shown,

most people with a long long long history of believing a literal snake talked,
cannot be convinced that an angel talked instead. go figure.

they may still believe the devil is a real dragon ! (like puff the magic dragon or something ?!)

Soooo---you are saying that an "angel of light", not a serpent, deceived Adam and Eve??---Where does it say that?? And why would God then curse this "angel of light" go on it's belly and eat dust--and curse it above "all the cattle and every beast of the field"?

Seen any angels crawling around on their bellies and eating dust lately??
You got a problem with Satan, a real, true magician/deceiver making a serpent talk?? Is that little trick something you think isn't possible for him to do?? The bible says the serpent was more subtle than any "BEAST of the field"---where do you get an angel out of that??

yeshuaslavejeff · Nov 29, 2014

seek, and ye shall find. if you want to know the truth, it is not far away. if you don't want to know, i can't say anything that will help.

there is one or more jewish hebrew clear descriptive websites that shows the biblical answer to your questions.

i can't tell who is and who is not seeking truth. but i can tell that it is there for those who are looking for it. it seems if it is posted directly, it is argued by those not seeking. but if those seeking find it, then it is good for all, with peace.

ChetSinger · Nov 29, 2014

mmksparbud said:
Soooo---you are saying that an "angel of light", not a serpent, deceived Adam and Eve??---Where does it say that?? And why would God then curse this "angel of light" go on it's belly and eat dust--and curse it above "all the cattle and every beast of the field"?

Seen any angels crawling around on their bellies and eating dust lately??
You got a problem with Satan, a real, true magician/deceiver making a serpent talk?? Is that little trick something you think isn't possible for him to do?? The bible says the serpent was more subtle than any "BEAST of the field"---where do you get an angel out of that??

If I could butt in for a moment, recent scholarship into the Canaanite context of the Hebrew scriptures indicates that yeshuaslavejeff may be right on the money with this one.

For Christians, the being in Gen 3 is linked directly to Satan via the Revelation. And Satan isn't an animal; he's a spirit, and in the Revelation he's described as having a serpentine shape. Spirits have shapes, at least in the spiritual realm.

The word "nachash" itself has multiple meanings. When used as an adjective it can mean "shining". And divine beings in both the OT and NT are sometimes described as shining.

The punishment meted out to him, being "lower than the cattle", is a typical "reversal of fortune" curse common in the scriptures. Satan attempted to be above Adam, creation's king, yet is cursed to be below even the cattle. His pride is being turned into humiliation.

Without buying books on the subject you can view a blog entry related to it, authored by a qualified source. If you're interested, it's a starting point: The Stones of Fire in Ezekiel 28 | Dr. Michael S. Heiser.

AceHero · Nov 29, 2014

Euler said:
It was a story.

Just a story.

Written by ancient men, striving to make sense of their world.

Just like the Norsemen trying to make sense. Just like the Hindus trying to make sense. Just like the Australian Aborigines trying to make sense. Just like the Druids trying to make sense. Just like the native Americans trying to make sense.

When you don't have answers, you make up stories.

Yep. The Book of Genesis is a story. Today we can see it clearly as allegory. The end.

EternalDragon · Nov 29, 2014

AceHero said:
Yep. The Book of Genesis is a story. Today we can see it clearly as allegory. The end.

Then how did you get here?

AV1611VET · Nov 29, 2014

EternalDragon said:
Then how did you get here?

Ciconiidae, silly!

mmksparbud · Nov 30, 2014

ChetSinger said:
If I could butt in for a moment, recent scholarship into the Canaanite context of the Hebrew scriptures indicates that yeshuaslavejeff may be right on the money with this one.

For Christians, the being in Gen 3 is linked directly to Satan via the Revelation. And Satan isn't an animal; he's a spirit, and in the Revelation he's described as having a serpentine shape. Spirits have shapes, at least in the spiritual realm.

The word "nachash" itself has multiple meanings. When used as an adjective it can mean "shining". And divine beings in both the OT and NT are sometimes described as shining.

The punishment meted out to him, being "lower than the cattle", is a typical "reversal of fortune" curse common in the scriptures. Satan attempted to be above Adam, creation's king, yet is cursed to be below even the cattle. His pride is being turned into humiliation.

Without buying books on the subject you can view a blog entry related to it, authored by a qualified source. If you're interested, it's a starting point: The Stones of Fire in Ezekiel 28 | Dr. Michael S. Heiser.

Satan was that serpent--he used it--the serpent was the most subtle BEAST--Satan was not a beast, he was an angel--fallen, but an angel. He has been an archangel--which is a covering cherub and they are not described as serpentine and there is no record of his shape being altered after he fell.The serpent was cursed to crawl on its belly--Satan was not limited to doing that. (He did take Christ to the highest pinnacle to show him the earthy kingdoms, kind of hard to do on your belly) And of course angels are shinning--and Satan is portrayed throughout the bible as possessing humans--you think animals are somehow beyond him? He is referred to as the serpent in Rev--which does not translate to him being one, or looking like one, but that he was that serpent in the garden--and by the way--just exactly of what great importance is this??
You mean to tell me that there are books dedicated to this one stupid little point?? I suppose knowing "the truth" about that one thing means ones salvation??! That the issue is of such importance that it has required scholars to spend their time researching this is something that escapes me.

(Ecc 12:12) And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.

JayFern · Nov 30, 2014

yeshuaslavejeff said:
seek, and ye shall find. if you want to know the truth, it is not far away.

Would I be able to find the truth in a Mosque in Saudi Arabia?

You were made to think like you do by people who wanted you to think like them, had they been Muslims you would now be a Muslim, religions are simply the luck of the draw and they mean nothing.

EternalDragon · Nov 30, 2014

JayFern said:
Would I be able to find the truth in a Mosque in Saudi Arabia?

You were made to think like you do by people who wanted you to think like them, had they been Muslims you would now be a Muslim, religions are simply the luck of the draw and they mean nothing.

Um...I was saved and learned about God from reading the bible at the
age of around 30. No one spoke to me about it. Who are these people
you speak of? I've also read the Koran and it was very unconvincing.

AV1611VET · Nov 30, 2014

EternalDragon said:
Um...I was saved and learned about God from reading the bible at the
age of around 30. No one spoke to me about it. Who are these people
you speak of? I've also read the Koran and it was very unconvincing.

Jay is a product of his own biases.

yeshuaslavejeff · Nov 30, 2014

You didn't read. (How hasatan is 'crawling on his belly').
Go back and read. It is simply for your own integrity and knowledge.

No scholars were needed to understand this. Yhvh made it clear to ekklesia when He chose - He delights to make known His Word to ekklesia.

Most scholars? Read what Jesus says to them.
It's not entertaining nor good.
Rare ones? Ekklesia..... They simply have God's Message accurately for His Purpose, and to put down the schemes of the enemy.

mmksparbud said:
....And of course angels are shinning--and Satan is portrayed throughout the bible as possessing humans--you think animals are somehow beyond him? .......

JayFern · Nov 30, 2014

JayFern said:
Would I be able to find the truth in a Mosque in Saudi Arabia?

You were made to think like you do by people who wanted you to think like them, had they been Muslims you would now be a Muslim, religions are simply the luck of the draw and they mean nothing.

EternalDragon said:
Um...I was saved and learned about God from reading the bible at the
age of around 30. No one spoke to me about it. Who are these people
you speak of? I've also read the Koran and it was very unconvincing.

Had your parents been Muslims you would not have needed to read a Bible [it just would not have been there for you to read] because you would already have known the truth, you would now be saying that Allah is the one true God.

There's an elephant in front of you and you can't see it, better yet you don't see it because you don't want to see it.

JayFern · Nov 30, 2014

AV1611VET said:
Jay is a product of his own biases.

I am as you say a product of my bias against some people's stupidity and ignorance.

AV1611VET · Nov 30, 2014

JayFern said:
Had your parents been Muslims you would not have needed to read a Bible [it just would not have been there for you to read] because you would already have known the truth, you would now be saying that Allah is the one true God.

You're an exception though, aren't you? if not, I take it your parents are atheists?

AV1611VET · Nov 30, 2014

JayFern said:
I am as you say a product of my bias against some people's stupidity and ignorance.

Including the one in the mirror?

JayFern · Nov 30, 2014

AV1611VET said:
You're an exception though, aren't you? if not, I take it your parents are atheists?

Were they into religion, ghosts, superstitions, poltergeists or things that went bump in the night? no.
They are both dead so they do not exist anymore, they are just as they were before they were born.

JayFern · Nov 30, 2014

AV1611VET said:
Including the one in the mirror?

Yes I am stupid and ignorant about some things but not about a magic man in the sky.

The question of the snake in Genesis.

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