The question cessationists must answer.

swordsman1 · Nov 23, 2018

LoveofTruth said:
No, I base it on Paul's own words about himself Silvanus and Timotheous when they all wrote to the church and it is written of them,

"1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians...6 ...neither of you,... when we might have been burdensome, as the apostles of Christ."(1 Thessalonians 1;1, 2:6 KJV)

Notice he directly refers to them in that verse and he says "we" plural, )not I _ and he uses the plural "apostles"

There is no denying this to the unbiased reader. It is as clear as the Sun reflecting in every dew drop in the morning, to those who are looking.

We have already established that the "we" in 1 Thessalonians is not always Paul, Silas and Timothy. In 1 Thes 2:2 it cannot include Timothy as only Paul and Silas were mistreated in Philippi (despite your bizarre unwarranted claim that Timothy was mistreated as well). Nor does the "we" include Timothy in 1 Thes 3:1 as the next verse makes clear; and the timeline in Acts indicates it doesn't include Silas either.

LoveofTruth said:
and what verse are you quoting in your theory?

I am familiar with one you may be referring to but it does not say what you try to make it say.

Here's the qualification:

Acts 1:22 "one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection."

And here's why it was needed:

Acts 1:1-2 "to the apostles whom He had chosen....He also presented Himself alive after His suffering, by many convincing proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days and speaking of the things concerning the kingdom of God."

Acts 4:33 "And with great power the apostles were giving testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus"

LoveofTruth said:
Paul said simply that he saw the Lord he actually says many others did also, and they were not all called with apostle gifts. We read

"6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep."(1 Corinthians 15:6 KJV)

To be an apostle you must have seen the risen Christ in person (Acts 1:22) and you had to be personally appointed by him. Not all those 500 were appointed apostles.

Paul, like the other apostles, was personally appointed by Christ.....

Acts 26:16-18 "I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen and will see of me. I will rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to them to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me."

Gal 1:1 "Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by a man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead—"

And Paul said he was the last person the see the risen Lord...

1 Cor 15:8 "and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also. For I am the least of the apostles"

So there can be no apostles today.

Righttruth · Nov 23, 2018

Alithis said:
Nope . an ear tickling theology goes around saying nono its ok you just keep right on sinning don't you worry..
People actually hate what i preach ..i..its called repentance .trning from doing evil works.
And you cant use that verse unless you are living according to it.
What have you ever given up to follow JESUS?
When your not even willing to gove up sin?

Before giving up what is inside, Jesus wants you to give up what is outside first. Remember the rich young ruler by the way?

YeshuaFan · Nov 23, 2018

Francis Drake said:
No matter how much scripture knowledge you claim, unless you also have revelation of the Holy Spirit, its nothing more than carnality, the Tree of Knowledge. Eating of the Tree of Knowledge brings death, even if that knowledge is bible knowledge.

But even with no bible knowledge, revelation from the Lord brings life.

My parents were not believers, but I first encountered the Lord in my bedroom, alone as a child.
Sometime later in early teens, whilst out in the street, I heard him speak to me again, this time he told me things I would later discover in scripture.
But it would be another ten years or so before I was shown the bible, I then realised it was talking about the God I already knew!

So do not presume to tell me that God doesn't speak or give revelation today. I have been hearing him for well over 50 years!

Just because your heart is hardened to hearing his voice, don't expect the same of others.

But here's a scripture written specially for you swordsman, and take note, it is repeated 3 times in succession. I suspect the writer thinks it is most important.-
Hebrews3v7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
8Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

and again-
12Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 13...…
15While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

and again-
Heb4v6Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

To insist that God doesn't speak today flies in the face of this and many other scriptures in OT and NT.
I suggest you repent somewhat, and start listening for that voice.

God gives forth today Illumination of His revelation in the Bible to us, but no new and additional revelations!

YeshuaFan · Nov 23, 2018

Francis Drake said:
You are the one who boasts you only follow to the bible, but you don't follow the bible at all, you follow your own opinion of the bible, mangling and twisting the words to suit your own agenda of rampant unbelief.

So tell us all, what authority gives you the right to cancel at the stroke of your pen, the commandments of Jesus in Mark16?

But to claim that scripture was fulfilled in Acts is arrogant hypocrisy, designed just to get yourself off the hook.
Here's that verse again. Lets have a look at it.
Mark16v15And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.
Has the gospel gone to all the world? Nope!
Has it been preached to all creation? Nope!
Even the very first verse proves you wrong.

16“He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. 17“These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;

The first verse is still an ongoing ministry, and so is all the rest.

Outside of the gospels and Acts, how many time did any Apostle command us to cast out demons, to drink poison, etc then?

YeshuaFan · Nov 23, 2018

Francis Drake said:
Another evasive question from someone who claims to only follow the bible.

You do know that the four gospels are not all the same don't you?

You do know they cover all the same events, but describe them from different viewpoints don't you?

You do know that they are all inerrant scriptures don't you?

You do know that if something is found in one gospel, but not another, it doesn't mean someone got it wrong?

You do know that you have to look at all the gospels to get the full story don't you?

You do know that just because you don't like something in one gospel, you can't just ignore it by looking at a different gospel?

You do know that the great commission as given in Mark and Matthew, both apply.

You do know that claiming one gospel has precedence over another is just silly, don't you?

You do know that asking me, "Where in the Great Commission of Mathew was demon casting out commanded to be done?" was just a scam to avoid answering my questions.

So, YeshuaFan, how's your deliverance ministry coming on? Cast any interesting demons out lately?

Nope, as my concern is to make sure the Gospel is lived out and given out by me to lost sinners, and to bring maturity and training in instruction to the already saved!

YeshuaFan · Nov 23, 2018

Francis Drake said:
As always, you go off at a tangent to avoid answering the questions about God's gift of healing today..

Waxing lyrical about your wonderful resurrection body is irrelevant to someone who is suffering and in pain.

From your infantile theology, it seems the best thing you have to offer is the needle that some of your states use at the end of their death rows.

Decades ago, my wife had a beautiful gold ring with precious jewels in it. It was an antique, a family heirloom. Unfortunately, it had worn thin and was in danger of breaking. So we took it to the jewellers to see if they could repair it.
They took ages and delayed repeatedly when we called to see if it was ready. Finally we went to collect it, but what they gave us was a totally different ring. The settings were much thicker and heavier. I don't know if the stones were the same or not as we couldn't tell.

It was no longer a family heirloom and no longer a valuable antique. The ring had not been repaired, and what we now had was a complete fake and of no value to us.

When people talk about the gift of healing, and you start to rabbit on about your resurrection body and getting to heaven, you are doing the same thing, faking it.
Your old body has not been repaired and you have certainly not experienced God's healing.

To claim otherwise is pure fraud.

You sound like one of those "Super Apostles" that paul warned against, who were claiming great things could be received from God, all health and wealth and healing, and yet all of the real Apostles of Jesus were suffering mighty fashion for His name sake!

YeshuaFan · Nov 23, 2018

Francis Drake said:
@YeshuaFan , you appear to have missed my post No1536, so I've posted the main content of it here.
Given that you reject the idea that God speaks to his children, can you explain this event for me?

About 30 years ago, after my wife's car was stolen, I was indignant and asked the Lord to do something about it. Two days later, as I was at a trade counter buying some plumbing materials, I distinctly heard the Lord tell me to drive down a certain street and I would find my wife's car.

I paid for my goods and then set off to find that street. As I slowly cruised down that street, there was my wife's car parked on the forecourt of a shop, the thieves obviously inside!

There was a police station at the end of that road, so I raced back and very quickly told the desk sergeant. I then raced back and waited for the boys in blue to come and do their job. The thieves were arrested along with a whole load of stolen goods and credit cards.

That is revelation today, received through a word of knowledge. The Lord does such things for those who listen.

You are redlining revelation here, as the Holy Spirit can and still does lead and guide and direct thru Bible, people, circumstances, but NO new revelations as WoF claims, as in doctrines and theology getting updated by God!

YeshuaFan · Nov 23, 2018

Billy Evmur said:
You have to show that in the life of Jesus, He IS God. did He ever say to anyone who came to Him "no I will not heal you." Did the apostles ever say so?

Paul told Timothy to take some wine to help his stomach, did not sound like a divine healing to me, nor was paul healed of his ailment, but was given abundant grace to endure!

YeshuaFan · Nov 23, 2018

Alithis said:
Because your resisting what he already said ,by teaching that it does not apply to you today.
Of course if we ate going to do that youll have to consistant and apply it to all scripture. Not just your fav ones

he seems to me though to be rightly dividing the word of God!

YeshuaFan · Nov 23, 2018

NBB said:
There is a huge amount of things that are not explicit said in the bible.

Yes, but we cannot claim something not laid out to us there though to be doing!

YeshuaFan · Nov 23, 2018

NBB said:
You can have spirits, i mean not possesed, but the evil spirits are there from your past life, and they just don't go away when you convert, it may God delivers you of something but a lot of spiritual problems related to the devil, can still be there long after you convert.

BIG difference from a demon or even Satan working against you though, and actually being still inside of you now!

YeshuaFan · Nov 23, 2018

Alithis said:
your doing the same thing as the people you accuse.
you teach cessationism
a man made tradition baed upon opinion not scripture.
youve told us numerous times you dont base your opinions on scripture- your words.
which leaves you man made fallible traditions.

You have no scripture that supports though that there are people gifted today by God to do sign gifts as the Apostles were! Nor any today receiving any additional revelations for today!

YeshuaFan · Nov 23, 2018

Alithis said:
oh your a word game player.
have you recieved the holy Spirit and do you speak in tongues, heal the sick, prophecy ,dream dreams, have visions are you FREE from sin ?

ALL Christians received the Holy Spirit, not all speak in tongues, and none have reached sinless perfection!

YeshuaFan · Nov 23, 2018

W2L said:
No, im simply refuting your assertion. As for your question, I have love in my heart for those with mental health issues who suffer at the hands of charismatic extremists. Does that count?

Hard to be helped with mental illness issues if just seen as being a demon that needs to get casted out...

YeshuaFan · Nov 23, 2018

swordsman1 said:
Pentecostalism's claim that is it the "Full gospel" is an affront to the redemptive work of Christ. It implies the gospel is somehow lacking and you do not have the 'full gospel' unless you subscribe to Pentecostalism.

True, as some of them do indeed say that unless you include the prosperity and healing that it is a defective Gospel message!

YeshuaFan · Nov 23, 2018

swordsman1 said:
Then how do you explain the thousands of Christians with cancer who have prayed to God for healing, but did not received it and subsequently died? God did not grant their healing did he.

He granted them the ultimate healing yet to come in the resurrection event!

W2L · Nov 23, 2018

YeshuaFan said:
Hard to be helped with mental illness issues if just seen as being a demon that needs to get casted out...

Exactly. One time i was talking to a person on facebook and they accused me of denying the Lord because i wasn't healed of my mental struggles. Wow, talk about being kicked while you're down. My mind was already a mess i didnt need more added to that, i needed Grace.

YeshuaFan · Nov 23, 2018

NBB said:
Woah, like a true cessationist there!, if you say God opening your eyes to spiritual truths, or things that the Holy spirit do are 'subjective' experiences you can't rely on, then you are more mistaken.

The spiritual truths need to be revealed to you by God, either with understanding from God or an experience, you don't get them by just reading a phrase.

God already has given to us all that we need in the person of the Holy Spirit, and his illumination thru the scriptures to us, no need to seek out any experiences or extra revelations!

YeshuaFan · Nov 23, 2018

Francis Drake said:
But swordsman you are not being reviled for the name of Christ at all.
It is your proclamation of the demonic doctrines of cessationism that is being reviled

I would much rather stand upon the firm rock of the scriptures though than standing upon much of the theology and doctrines of the modern day Charismatic Movement!

YeshuaFan · Nov 23, 2018

Billy Evmur said:
There are many and vexacious reasons why this is so, not least that 80% of the church do not believe that healing is included in salvation, don't believe it don't preach it, don't expect it so don't receive it.

The church is backslidden, how come so many, many Christians are living sinful lifestyles?

I would not say [never, never] that every sin is linked to individual sin but it is linked to faith.

Look suppose you were sick, but you were not sure if healing is from God? if God were to heal you, you would always have a worry, a doubt in your mind as to whether or not your healing was from God or was a deception. Your trust in God so far as the salvation of your soul is so much more important.

Let me say this. the promise for healing is as rock solid in scripture as the promise of pardon, in fact they are in the very same passages of scripture, there is not a Christian ever born who doubts the portion concerning pardon but they do doubt the portion concerning healing.

Until healing is preached and believed in [by preachers] with the same faith and certainty as pardon we will never see the great works as witnessed in the bible.

If God answered a request to heal by saying No, but that my Grace is sufficient, and your weakness will revel my power, as my power is perfected in your weakness. is that right for God to do? So paul was handed a raw deal?

The question cessationists must answer.

Well-Known Member

Regular Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency