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But sola scriptura is trustworthy. And going against what it clearly says is not wise.I agree, but a caveat. God can do whatever he wants, and my understanding is necessarily short. This (cessationism) is not a basic tenet, to me. However, there are some that are more basic, such as the fact that the Word of God can no more be added to, etc. Likewise, there is no pronouncement by God through man that can trump the Word of God. The common phrase for this is, "No new revelation", and that I agree with.
However, God most definitely does open eyes, give wisdom, even speak wisdom beyond the understanding of the speaker (or at least, give the listener a different take on what the speaker said, than what the speaker intended.)
I also do not believe that miracles have ceased. I do think that most, maybe all, on TV and big audiences are quacks. But I have myself much to thank God for along the lines of "miracle".
God can indeed do whatever he wants, and doesn't have to line up with my claims. He owes me nothing.
Completely erroneous.God only speaks through his written word.
Even with your scriptures, people like you are sitting ducks for Satan!You can spot false prophets if you know what the word says. Without it, you are a sitting duck.
Especially when God Himself said that the purpose of the sign gifts was for a specific time!But sola scriptura is trustworthy. And going against what it clearly says is not wise.
God ONLY infallible source of revelation would be the Scriptures, and He stopped giving forth any additional revelation after Revelation itself!Completely erroneous.
Even with your scriptures, people like you are sitting ducks for Satan!
If scripture were such a brilliant test of prophecy, it should first be able to prove that by testing itself.
ie. There should be only one interpretation of what scripture says, instead of the many thousands of competing interpretations that you theologians invent.
So, how about you "theologians" getting your own house in order before attacking the prophetic ministry with constant accusations of false prophecy!
Those hearing voices in their head are the sitting ducks.Completely erroneous.
Even with your scriptures, people like you are sitting ducks for Satan!
If scripture were such a brilliant test of prophecy, it should first be able to prove that by testing itself.
ie. There should be only one interpretation of what scripture says, instead of the many thousands of competing interpretations that you theologians invent.
So, how about you "theologians" getting your own house in order before attacking the prophetic ministry with constant accusations of false prophecy!
Its called discernment.How can any one be sure that what they say or think is from the Holy Spirit as a spiritual gift rather than an opinion enthusiastically embraced or an appealing idea heard, read, or seen in their experience?
Here we have someone who vehemently denies that the Lord can speak to him, yet proudly acts as arbiter of that Lord's opinion.Those hearing voices in their head are the sitting ducks.
Go with the bible. Don't listen to those voices in your head.Here we have someone who vehemently denies that the Lord can speak to him, yet proudly acts as arbiter of that Lord's opinion.
I'd rather seek the Lord himself, than listen to a man who denies hearing him.
ie. The last days, which we are still in.Especially when God Himself said that the purpose of the sign gifts was for a specific time!
Go with the bible. Don't listen to those voices in your head.
I am sure I asked a question without passing judgement or offering criticism but I suppose you read it as a criticism that stung something tender so your post is constructed as if my question was a judgement against something and a criticism that must be answered by you. What I wrote isIts called discernment.
All believers need to ask the Lord for discernment and for wisdom, otherwise we are left with human interpretation of what the Lord is saying through the gifts or through the bible.
So the same judgement and criticism you throw at prophecy
They must be very wicked teachers, I think, to need things throwing at them., needs also to be thrown at your bible teachers.
You appear to need a revised version of my question as a straw man for you to attack. The added words that you kindly inserted in red text and the words that you deleted without showing that you deleted them (I think that strikethrough works well for showing unwanted and deleted wordsSo to help, I'm playing back your own words with the appropriate modification.
How can any one be sure that what they teach or think is from the bible is true rather than an opinion enthusiastically embraced or an appealing idea heard, read, or seen in their experience?
It's possible that what the bible says is difficult to interpret. Peter thought Paul's letters were difficult.In reality, most people just swallow, hook, line and sinker, everything their pastor says. Because he is the pastor, they just suckle from him with no thought or discernment whatsoever.
If that were not the case, there would be little or no debate on this forum. We would simply read scripture and all agree on what it says. Lol
You need to show examples of the spiritual gifts being conveyed apart from the two outpourings and through the hands on an apostle. Until you do this, those gifts have ceased.
Amen that!But sola scriptura is trustworthy. And going against what it clearly says is not wise.
You need to show examples of the spiritual gifts being conveyed apart from the two outpourings and through the hands on an apostle. Until you do this, those gifts have ceased.
Well said. I like that.I think the main contention would be that while those like me who see it ceasing would allow for God to do healings and miracles, none today are gifted by him to do such, nor to give forth any additional revelations from God!
I think you are conflating two things, both called prophecy.Its bizarre that you imagine people who listen to prophecy somehow ignore scripture. As I said elsewhere, its like comparing which is best, a coat or a house, two items of covering for entirely different purposes.
You Dave, walk around stark naked, trying to prove that your nicely ordered house is far more important than my coat, (meanwhile forgetting that as well as my coat, I also have a house.)
Your constant rant of "all prophecy today is false" is just that, a rant, devoid of experience or truth.
In obvious contrast to your void, I have lived prophetic words and visions for over 50 years, both receiving and giving.
They range from mere spiritual encouragement to deeply significant and life changing.
Many of them cover stuff that no scripture can reveal. ie. dates, names, events and places.
And as said previously, back in the 80s, my son at 3 years old gave an accurate and provable prophecy about buying a house. The word contained a deadline over 3 months hence, which came to pass a mere 2 hours short of the final deadline.
Was that a false prophecy?
Was my 3 year old a liar?
Nobody in their right senses should just blindly take a prophetic word without using discernment.
But exactly the same discernment should apply when listening to any bible teacher, even teachers here, and that includes myself.
As one who rails against prophetic deception you should note that the gifts of the spirit in the church have effectively been banned for almost 2000 years.
In that 2000 years, the only input the church had was at the hands of church theologians. And these theologians, with no help whatsoever from the prophetic gifts have managed to slice and dice the church into thousands of conflicting sects and denominations.
So next time you rail against the prophetic gifts, just remember it was theologians who messed up the church, not the prophets!
How can any one be sure that what they say or think is from the Holy Spirit as a spiritual gift rather than an opinion enthusiastically embraced or an appealing idea heard, read, or seen in their experience?
What you mention is evidence but not really proof. I suppose that proof may be too much to expect about nearly anything. The evidence that you mention - good fruit (not clear to me what this really is), miracles, feeling God's presence (this one is very subjective), revealed secrets, prophecy - would not convince me but it would be encouraging I think.Personally i need proof.
When a minister has good fruit, and miracles happens, you feel the presence of God and for example he tells you something that nobody knows except you, and then a phropecy, then you are left with no reason to not believe. Just search those fine details.
What you mention is evidence but not really proof. I suppose that proof may be too much to expect about nearly anything. The evidence that you mention - good fruit (not clear to me what this really is), miracles, feeling God's presence (this one is very subjective), revealed secrets, prophecy - would not convince me but it would be encouraging I think.
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