The question cessationists must answer.

Billy Evmur said:

Come, come, Psalm 23 was in holy writ long before the Charismatics came along. And the Pentecostal movement was before Kenyon and owes nothing to him.

Gospel means GOOD NEWS and it is the best news that was ever told. What? that we HGentiles were to become partakers of promises God made to the Jews, fellow citizens with them in their commonwealth, not by observing their law and ordinances but freely in Christ.

I am not a WoF believer.

It is a fact that Pentecostalism arose among peoples of what I regard as the wrong theological stream, that is to say among in the Arminian camp, the holiness crowd, the freewillers .


But there you are, there's nothing to be done about it but to try and redirect their minds by persuasion of the more precious doctrines of grace.

This does explain many mistakes and excesses in the Charismatic church.

The revelation of God is always going on from glory to glory...don't get left behind.

Luther was revolutionary, Whitefield/Wesley was a revolutionary move of the Holy Ghost. Yet the truths that became so everyday were in the bible for centuries.

Click to expand...

ToBeLoved said:

I don’t know of any.

Click to expand...

Billy Evmur said:

And yet Muller states in His "Narratives" that his intention was to show Christians everywhere that the promises of God were for them too.

It is the scriptures that teach us about the gifts of the Holy Spirit and exhorts us to earnestly desire them.

Everything must be proved by scripture.

Click to expand...

ToBeLoved said:

Don’t forget about the scripture verse that says tongues will pass away.

Or the scripture verse that says the Holy Spirit chooses what gifts any individual has.

Those are good scripture too

Click to expand...

Francis Drake said:

That is a commonly held false doctrine.
But if it were true, then Jesus lied when he told Nicodemus he must be born again. Or at least he should have warned Nicodemus that it would take another 3 years. (God not being the author of confusion etc.)

Your problem comes from conflating becoming born again by the Spirit, and being filled with the power of that Spirit.
Despite what is taught, all OT believers were born again, as indeed were the disciples prior to meeting Jesus (apart from Judas).

Do you seriously believe that people like David could have the close relationship with the Lord that the Psalms reveal, if he was unregenerate? Go read his wonderful Psalms, such 139, and see if your relationship with the Lord is better than David's was.
Do you seriously believe he could write the scriptures when he was spiritually dead?

Wrong, see above.

Wrong again.

I am amazed you fall for the most basic of false doctrines, but then it is very common.

Click to expand...

Francis Drake said:

No, your entire premise is wrong. Every sacrifice from Adam onwards was on account of the pending sacrifice that Jesus would make.
In themselves, the blood of bulls and goats did nothing, but neither does communion wine.
They are both just testimonies to the death of Christ.
Jesus is after all, the lamb that was slain from the foundation of the earth, and He is as much the God of the Old Covenant as he is the New.

It obviously upsets your dogma, but that's because your dogma is wrong.

How can we be called sons of Abraham, if Abraham was unregenerate?
How can any of the OT patriarchs be quoted in the NT as our examples, if they achieved what they did whilst spiritually dead?
If they can be heroes of faith without the Spirit, then why bother with the Spirit?

Click to expand...

ToBeLoved said:

I believe the Bible states clearly that the animal sacrifices by the Levitical priesthood were for temporary atonement of sin.

Click to expand...

Francis Drake said:

I don't need to show a command in the epistles, as the epistles show them casting demons out as a part of the ministry. Go and find it for yourself!

But repeatedly throughout his ministry on earth, Jesus both taught and demonstrated the necessity of driving demons out. He also sent them out on short ministry missions to do the same thing.
It is against all common sense to pretend that the disciples after Pentecost did everything else Jesus taught them, except casting demons out.
Now you prove otherwise!
​

Here's the proof that believers can have demons.
Luke13v11And there was a woman who for eighteen years had had a sickness caused by a spirit; and she was bent double, and could not straighten up at all. 12When Jesus saw her, He called her over and said to her, “Woman, you are freed from your sickness.” 13And He laid His hands on her; and immediately she was made erect again and began glorifying God.
14But the synagogue official, indignant because Jesus had healed on the Sabbath, began saying to the crowd in response, “There are six days in which work should be done; so come during them and get healed, and not on the Sabbath day.” 15But the Lord answered him and said, “You hypocrites, does not each of you on the Sabbath untie his ox or his donkey from the stall and lead him away to water him? 16“And this woman, a daughter of Abraham as she is, whom Satan has bound for eighteen long years, should she not have been released from this bond on the Sabbath day?”

Err?
What on earth does that mean. It makes no sense whatsoever!​

Click to expand...

Billy Evmur said:

The Holy Spirit marches on, it's no good waiting for revival as He did 100 or 200 or 300 years ago, you'll just get left behind in the things of God, He is working through signs and wonders and miracle ministry these days. The western church is being left behind in the things of God.

There are more evangelical Christians in China today than America...it is all Pentecostal, Africa is Pentecostal even India is opening up to the Pentecostals.

Salvation, healing, deliverance and prosperity. Full salvation for the whole man.

Click to expand...

Billy Evmur said:

It makes historical sense for the manifestations, the demonstration did cease and no wonder, just look at how the church swerved off course and backslid in the 3rd and 4th century.

The Holy Spirit was never going to bear witness to Roman Catholicism.

Since the Reformation more and more of bible truth has been recovered.

That the Holy Spirit would cease to bear witness to bible truth makes no sense whatever.

Click to expand...

Alithis said:

And that is called being a hearer of the word but not a doer.
Jesus said it is self deception .
The fastest road to deception and false teaching reinforcing Unbelief... Is to hear but not Do the word of God.

Just last night as we preached the Gospel to a ex hindu house hold. They believed and repented. We laid hands on them .one guy began to thrash and growl manifesting a demon. we cast it out in JESUS . then on his own faith we baptised him in water right away.
Then we laid hands on him and he was filled with the holy Spirit and spontaneously spoke in Tongues and is Free.

Nothing about the Gospel has changed.
Nothing !

Lie not against the truth.

Click to expand...

Billy Evmur said:

It makes historical sense for the manifestations, the demonstration did cease and no wonder, just look at how the church swerved off course and backslid in the 3rd and 4th century.

The Holy Spirit was never going to bear witness to Roman Catholicism.

Since the Reformation more and more of bible truth has been recovered.

That the Holy Spirit would cease to bear witness to bible truth makes no sense whatever.

Click to expand...

YeshuaFan said:

paul in acts stated that God passed over/remitted sins back then due to the coming Messiah, but that since he now came and died and was raised up and ascended, NOW we all have the Holy Spirit dealing and indwelling us!

Click to expand...

YeshuaFan said:

I have state always here that casting out demons from saved persons is not per scripture!

Click to expand...

Francis Drake said:

Statements from your opinion are completely worthless when compared to the testimony of scripture.

Click to expand...

ToBeLoved said:

Do you have the Acts verse

Click to expand...

YeshuaFan said:

NEVER told in scripture to cast demons out of the saved,

Click to expand...

and the Gospels and Acts recorded down the transistion period between old and new covenants, as we now are fully into the New One, and the Epistles themselves are our instruction letters, and they say NOTHING about what you keep addressing!

Click to expand...

Francis Drake said:

Given that his ministry was directed to the believers, that's a very silly claim to make.
As the good shepherd, Jesus came to minister to his own sheep, to set them free and heal them.That's why we don't find Jesus casting demons out or healing those who rejected him.

So the four gospels and the book of Acts, containing the very words of our creator are no longer relevant to instruct Christians.
I hope everyone else reads this shameful claim.

You are happy to quote these scriptures when it suits you, but then claim they are no longer applicable when I use them to prove my point.
This is truly shameful behaviour.

You are a spiritually blind man bitterly complaining that there is no such thing as light.

Click to expand...

ToBeLoved said:

If you want to join the conversation you are welcome to do so, but please read the thread I was replying to so my response stays in context.

I responded to a specific point. Thanks.

Click to expand...

Dave L said:

In Acts, God distributed the gifts in the two outpourings. And then only through the hands of an apostle. Only an apostle could impart them. When the apostles died off, only the ministerial gifts remained. Tongues, prophecy. word of knowledge, signs and wonders all ceased.

Click to expand...