The Q Document/Source:Does It Exist?

[James Is Back]

Continuing on from another thread do you believe that the Synoptic Gospels were written using the so called Q document/source? Here is more information on it:

http://www.gotquestions.org/synoptic-problem.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_source

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Continuing on from another thread do you believe that the Synoptic Gospels were written using the so called Q document/source? Here is more information on it:

http://www.gotquestions.org/synoptic-problem.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_source

You missed one choice on your poll; "does it matter". If such a document did/does exist and we needed to know what it contained for our salvation; they Holy Spirit would most certainly provide it. There are, as I understand, some references to other documents in Scripture that we don't have either. God provided to us everything that He wants us to know, everything that we need to know; but not everything that we think we should know or want to know.

If such a document showed up and it's authorship/authenticity could be verified there would be a place for it as our Lutheran Canon is not closed.

 

[miamited]

Hi James,

As your sources say, the 'Q' theory is purely hypothetical and there is absolutely no proof available. It is all about man's desire to answer the reason for the similarity in the gospels while denying that the same Spirit gave utterance to each of them and should therefore be similar. If we, born again believers, want to assign that the gospels came from some similar source, we should designate it as 'HS'.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[James Is Back]

Hi James,

As your sources say, the 'Q' theory is purely hypothetical and there is absolutely no proof available. It is all about man's desire to answer the reason for the similarity in the gospels while denying that the same Spirit gave utterance to each of them and should therefore be similar. If we, born again believers, want to assign that the gospels came from some similar source, we should designate it as 'HS'.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

Good answer

 

[Willtor]

I think it probably does, or did at one time -- there may be no extant copies. Additionally, it may be multiple documents and not a single source. Luke is not specific about how he conducted his research -- how much was interviews, how much was reading existing documents, etc. But at any rate, between the similarities between the synoptic gospels and the fact that Luke says that he did research, I think it's pretty likely that there is a Q source or sources.

 

[branchofthevine]

Q probably existed. We have a document similar to what we think Q might have been, aka the Gospel of Thomas. But if we ever found Q, it would be controversial as a number of Christians would dismiss it as heretical or wrong while a number of others would regard it highly

 

[Willtor]

Q probably existed. We have a document similar to what we think Q might have been, aka the Gospel of Thomas. But if we ever found Q, it would be controversial as a number of Christians would dismiss it as heretical or wrong while a number of others would regard it highly

The Gospel of Thomas doesn't really overlap with the synoptic gospels. What passages do you think are related?

 

[Open Heart]

I hope the discussion comes over here. It's nice to have a thread just for this issue.

 

[James Is Back]

I hope the discussion comes over here. It's nice to have a thread just for this issue.

That's why I started it

 

[Steeno7]

I love Star Trek......

 

[branchofthevine]

The Gospel of Thomas doesn't really overlap with the synoptic gospels. What passages do you think are related?

The Gospel of Thomas is just a collection of sayings, and there are tons of overlap between the Canonical gospels and Thomas. Q is also believed to have been a collection of the sayings of Jesus. Here are some teachings in Thomas that are similar to the Canon:

GoT 9- Jesus said, "Look, the sower went out, took a handful (of seeds), and scattered (them). Some fell on the road, and the birds came and gathered them. Others fell on rock, and they didn't take root in the soil and didn't produce heads of grain. Others fell on thorns, and they choked the seeds and worms ate them. And others fell on good soil, and it produced a good crop: it yielded sixty per measure and one hundred twenty per measure."

GoT 16 -Jesus said, "Perhaps people think that I have come to cast peace upon the world. They do not know that I have come to cast conflicts upon the earth: fire, sword, war.
For there will be five in a house: there'll be three against two and two against three, father against son and son against father, and they will stand alone."

GoT 20 -The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us what Heaven's kingdom is like."
He said to them, "It's like a mustard seed, the smallest of all seeds, but when it falls on prepared soil, it produces a large plant and becomes a shelter for birds of the sky."

There are other parallels, but for the sake space here, I suggest to anyone that they should read the Gospel of Thomas. Some parts of it are weird, and others good. Q would have probably been much the same way if it existed or continues to exist.

 

[Willtor]

The Gospel of Thomas is just a collection of sayings, and there are tons of overlap between the Canonical gospels and Thomas. Q is also believed to have been a collection of the sayings of Jesus. Here are some teachings in Thomas that are similar to the Canon:

GoT 9- Jesus said, "Look, the sower went out, took a handful (of seeds), and scattered (them). Some fell on the road, and the birds came and gathered them. Others fell on rock, and they didn't take root in the soil and didn't produce heads of grain. Others fell on thorns, and they choked the seeds and worms ate them. And others fell on good soil, and it produced a good crop: it yielded sixty per measure and one hundred twenty per measure."

GoT 16 -Jesus said, "Perhaps people think that I have come to cast peace upon the world. They do not know that I have come to cast conflicts upon the earth: fire, sword, war.
For there will be five in a house: there'll be three against two and two against three, father against son and son against father, and they will stand alone."

GoT 20 -The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us what Heaven's kingdom is like."
He said to them, "It's like a mustard seed, the smallest of all seeds, but when it falls on prepared soil, it produces a large plant and becomes a shelter for birds of the sky."

Ah, good call. I didn't remember these passages being in there.

There are other parallels, but for the sake space here, I suggest to anyone that they should read the Gospel of Thomas. Some parts of it are weird, and others good. Q would have probably been much the same way if it existed or continues to exist.

Yeah, I actually have read it. But it was a long time ago. I should read it again.

That said, what makes you think Q is/was much the same? Even in the passages you cited have context in the synoptic gospels.

 

[branchofthevine]

That said, what makes you think Q is/was much the same? Even in the passages you cited have context in the synoptic gospels.

because Q is hypothesized to be a collection of sayings of Jesus. And Thomas is a collection of sayings supposedly from Jesus.

 

[Willtor]

because Q is hypothesized to be a collection of sayings of Jesus. And Thomas is a collection of sayings supposedly from Jesus.

The first part of that statement, the hypothesis, is my question. Many of the stories thought to be in Q have context in both Matthew and Luke. Why would Q not have context?

 

[Root of Jesse]

Also, I believe that the gospels appear in the order they appear.

 

[Open Heart]

Also, I believe that the gospels appear in the order they appear.

Do you mean you believe they were written in the same order in which they appear in the Bible?

 

[Root of Jesse]

Yes, and independently. Mark based on Peter's description, Luke based on Paul's and Matthew on his own.

Do you mean you believe they were written in the same order in which they appear in the Bible?

 

[Open Heart]

Yes, and independently. Mark based on Peter's description, Luke based on Paul's and Matthew on his own.

And how do you personally explain the mutual plagiariasm, that which makes the synoptic gospels so synoptic?

 

[Root of Jesse]

And how do you personally explain the mutual plagiariasm, that which makes the synoptic gospels so synoptic?

Because the accounts they wrote were all witnesses to the exact same events.

 

[Willtor]

Because the accounts they wrote were all witnesses to the exact same events.

If you and I are witness to the same events, one expects us still to use our own vocabularies to describe them. The point is not that they tell the same stories but that they tell them using identical sentences and phrases. John tells some of the same stories, but he uses different language to do it.