The Purpose of the Rapture.

dwb001 · Aug 31, 2023

dfw69 said:
But it’s not new it’s false if it were new I am humble enough and open minded to accept it if it were truth but this thought of yours is wrong and you should not accept false teachings

So you have heard it before? Where?

dfw69 said:
Does not answer my questions

The first heaven and earth as we know it died and there was no more sea only land left ….the new heaven and earth has come it’s a renovation not a total annihilation of the heaven and earth

When something passes away... you thing it is just a renovation?
Well that is your way of interpreting the passage.
I have never heard someone say the old Earth is not destroyed.

dfw69 said:
No I did not Paul makes it clear it takes place at his coming for the dead in Christ ie believers

Which matches my version just fine.
When does the sea give up the dead? Are there dead believers in the sea?

dfw69 said:
It does not take pace during the resurrection of the dead both small and great which are resurrected after the first resurrection

I say it do.

dfw69 said:
false assumption

And I can say the same for an early Rapture view.

dfw69 said:
Will see

Now this could be a new position for me this makes some sense but is it true donkey?

See if my understanding matches Scripture.
Don't take my word for it.
I could be wrong.
In fact I would prefer an early Rapture.
I don't hold this position because I like it.
It is just as I read Revelation this is what I see.

dfw69 said:
Not sure that it is cause God could transform the old world into a new world but even if He is moving us to a new earth It not the rapture that we will experience according to Paul at His coming

Your sentence does not make sense.

dfw69 said:
Will see ..I don’t believe so but it may be possible

The first resurrection takes place at His coming …There is no tribulation during the millennium … and after the millennium gog and Magog prepared to attack but no success whatsoever

So who is Gog and Magog?
You say these are the children of believers that have had no Satan to tempt them and Jesus to teach them for 1000 years.
So the children will revolt against Christ just as Adam did in the garden.

dfw69 said:
It is after the gog Magog war that the gwt judgement takes place when the dead small and great are risen to be judge and cast into the lake of fire that you say will be the rapture up to the sky in preparation to receive the new earth

That is what Rev 20 shows.

dfw69 said:
This is just not correct

It is one possible reading.

dfw69 said:
That’s incorrect according to Paul who said the lord will ascend from heaven to appear in the sky to sound 2 trumpet

References. Until you put your references into your posts I must assume you are only stating your opinion.

dfw69 said:
For those in that day and age not us … God is not a monster

References required. Where do you get an idea about aging from Rev 20?

dfw69 said:
It’s not.. the time is not yet

Well I believe it is.
You think another 100 years or so?
Is it not better to watch and wait for His return rather than to push it off to another generation.

Wow you have taken this discussion way off the rails from where it started.

dfw69 · Aug 31, 2023

dwb001 said:
So you have heard it before? Where?

I meant it’s not a new truth it has to be truth to be considered new

dwb001 said:
When something passes away... you thing it is just a renovation?

At death a person passes away at resurrection he is renewed I think the same principle will apply with the new earth

dwb001 said:
When does the sea give up the dead? Are there dead believers in the sea?

The dead believers in Christ in the sea will be resurrected when the coming of Christ takes place when Paul’s description takes place

But the rest of the dead in the sea do not arise until after the 1000 years to face the gwt judgement

Those in the first resurrection will not face the gwt and second death

dwb001 said:
See if my understanding matches Scripture.
Don't take my word for it.
I could be wrong.
In fact I would prefer an early Rapture.
I don't hold this position because I like it.
It is just as I read Revelation this is what I see.

I have given it some thought and I’m sorry to disappoint you but if you take a serious look you will see the rapture of the church as described by Paul is not found in rev and the first resurrection are the tribulation as you yourself admitted and that takes place before the millennium not after in which the gwt takes place so the rapture Paul mentioned is not during the gwt because our resurrection death is swallowed up in victory and there is No victory standing before the Gwt

dwb001 said:
Your sentence does not make sense.

Im saying the world as we know it can die and be no more as we know it and it can be resurrected anew by renovation

dwb001 said:
So who is Gog and Magog?

Those who will rebel against Christ reign after the millennium

They will be tempted by satan after the 1000 year reign of Christ

dwb001 said:
You say these are the children of believers that have had no Satan to tempt them and Jesus to teach them for 1000 years.

They are the nations of the world who will be blessed to enter the kingdom of God for 1000 years

dwb001 said:
So the children will revolt against Christ just as Adam did in the garden.

I don’t know where you get them as children…they are the nations as the sands of the sea implies they are all Israelites

Those who will follow satans last attempt to overthrow Jesus rod of iron will be consumed by fire above

dwb001 said:
That is what Rev 20 shows.

I don’t know why you can’t see that rev 20 shows the dead both small and great resurrected to face judgement not the dead in Christ

Nor can you see that the 1 resurrection took place before the millennium and the gwt is after

So Paul’s rapture cannot be placed here

dwb001 said:
It is one possible reading.

It’s not possible sorry

dwb001 said:
Well I believe it is.
You think another 100 years or so?

Possibly even longer I don’t see Jewish people accepting the Son of God doctrine anytime soon but the messianic movement may help that cause to save Israel

dwb001 said:
Is it not better to watch and wait for His return rather than to push it off to another generation.

I am awaiting His return to rapture us to heaven …. But He is not coming to the Jews yet they are still rejecting the light and may be trying to establish a (false) messianic age where Jesus is not on the throne but another

dwb001 · Aug 31, 2023

dfw69 said:
I meant it’s not a new truth it has to be truth to be considered new

And you have not shown it to not be truth.

dfw69 said:
At death a person passes away at resurrection he is renewed I think the same principle will apply with the new earth

So a person resurrected to the exact same body, made of dirt and dust. Or is the old body destroyed and the soul placed in a new body?

dfw69 said:
The dead believers in Christ in the sea will be resurrected when the coming of Christ takes place when Paul’s description takes place

But the rest of the dead in the sea do not arise until after the 1000 years to face the gwt judgement

Not what Rev says.

dfw69 said:
Those in the first resurrection will not face the gwt and second death

I have given it some thought and I’m sorry to disappoint you but if you take a serious look you will see the rapture of the church as described by Paul is not found in rev and the first resurrection are the tribulation as you yourself admitted and that takes place before the millennium not after in which the gwt takes place so the rapture Paul mentioned is not during the gwt because our resurrection death is swallowed up in victory and there is No victory standing before the Gwt

Again your sentence structure makes no sense to me.
I think I know what you are driving at but as I can not be sure what your point is I will play it safe and not respond.
I have a response but maybe I would be answering a question you didn't ask.

dfw69 said:
Im saying the world as we know it can die and be no more as we know it and it can be resurrected anew by renovation

But that is not how the text reads.

dfw69 said:
Those who will rebel against Christ reign after the millennium

Yes... I just believe they are present throughout the millennium and you think that children of resurrected people will turn away from Jesus with no help at all from Satan.
Hey... Do resurrection bodies have the ability to reproduce physically?

dfw69 said:
They will be tempted by satan after the 1000 year reign of Christ

They are the nations of the world who will be blessed to enter the kingdom of God for 1000 years

But you said only resurrected and Jews are in the kingdom.
Now you are including nations?

dfw69 said:
I don’t know where you get them as children…they are the nations as the sands of the sea implies they are all Israelites

Those who will follow satans last attempt to overthrow Jesus rod of iron will be consumed by fire above

I don’t know why you can’t see that rev 20 shows the dead both small and great resurrected to face judgement not the dead in Christ

Where do you get that? I don't see the exclusion.

dfw69 said:
Nor can you see that the 1 resurrection took place before the millennium and the gwt is after

I believe I was the one that brought up that point. And it is not the 1 it is the 1st.

dfw69 said:
So Paul’s rapture cannot be placed here

Yes it can as I have shown.
You don't like it... but I have explained how it is possible.

dfw69 said:
It’s not possible sorry

You have not provided any proofs that is is not possible.
Maybe try to disprove something instead of just saying it isn't possible.

dfw69 said:
Possibly even longer I don’t see Jewish people accepting the Son of God doctrine anytime soon but the messianic movement may help that cause to save Israel

It does not mater about the nation it is about the individual.

dfw69 said:
I am awaiting His return to rapture us to heaven …. But He is not coming to the Jews yet they are still rejecting the light and may be trying to establish a (false) messianic age where Jesus is not on the throne but another

And what if.... just what if... you are wrong.
Are you even able to look at that possibility in the face or do you stand with your fingers in your ears and say that it is not possible as it happens around you?

dfw69 · Aug 31, 2023

dwb001 said:
So a person resurrected to the exact same body, made of dirt and dust. Or is the old body destroyed and the soul placed in a new body?

Jesus arose from the dead and his body was changed …so will we be like Him

dwb001 said:
Yes... I just believe they are present throughout the millennium and you think that children of resurrected people will turn away from Jesus with no help at all from Satan.

I think your not seeing this correctly

The resurrected live and rule with Christ but those nations that are the subjects will rebel against His camp in the end after Satan is loosed

The ones that rebel are destroyed by fire sent down from Heaven

I don’t believe everyone of them will eventually rebel against Him just the disgruntled ones . What makes them disgruntled and rebel is unknown

dwb001 said:
Hey... Do resurrection bodies have the ability to reproduce physically?

Idk why?

Jesus said …the resurrected will be like the angels and not given in marriage

dwb001 said:
But you said only resurrected and Jews are in the kingdom.
Now you are including nations?

Well the nations will be blessed to enter in the beginning of the millennium and they will become as the sands of the sea which implies they will convert to Judaism under the messiah is what I’m saying

Many will rebel in the end of the millennium… why? I don’t know

dwb001 said:
And what if.... just what if... you are wrong.
Are you even able to look at that possibility in the face or do you stand with your fingers in your ears and say that it is not possible as it happens around you?

I will die with what I believe was the truth in the hope that Jesus is my Father by faith and He will resurrect me as He promised for it is better to walk in the faith and in the truth and have a hope than to not…

And as for me and my house we will live for Jesus to obtain His Father house by faith

What about you? U miss the rapture what then? What are you prepared to do afterwards? What are your hopes?

dwb001 · Aug 31, 2023

dfw69 said:
Jesus arose from the dead and his body was changed so will we

I think your not seeing this correctly

Differently is not incorrect.

dfw69 said:
They live and rule with Christ and those that are subjects will rebel against His camp

Right... the rebels are the ones that never were part of the kingdom to begin with.

dfw69 said:
Idk why? It says we will be like the angels and not given in marriage

So if there is no marriage... where will the new unbelievers come from?

dfw69 said:
Well the nations will be blessed to enter in the beginning of the millennium and they will become as the sands of the sea which implies they will convert to Judaism under the messiah is what I’m saying

Where is this sands of the sea reference?

dfw69 said:
I will die with what I believe was the truth in the hope that Jesus is my father by faith and He will resurrect me as He promised for it is better to walk in the faith and have a hope than to not

And for me and my house we will live for Jesus to obtain His Father by faith

Same.

dfw69 · Aug 31, 2023

dwb001 said:
And you have not shown it to not be truth.

I’m just one person ..you seem to want agreement … post a threat on the subject and see what others think of your position

dwb001 · Aug 31, 2023

dfw69 said:
I’m just one person ..you seem to want agreement … post a threat on the subject and see what others think of your position

I am just questioning other peoples beliefs.
If I want to put my own beliefs out there and open them up for discussion I will.
But that would be in my own time and manner.

dfw69 · Aug 31, 2023

dwb001 said:
Right... the rebels are the ones that never were part of the kingdom

Perhaps the millennium is the test so that they may enter the new Jerusalem to come

But one last temptation takes place by Satan. Perhaps satan when released will fly around claiming to be God …who knows

dwb001 said:
So if there is no marriage... where will the new unbelievers come from?

No marriage for the resurrected saints…but the blessed nations are mortal and so are the many Israelites that were saved from death

dwb001 said:
Where is this sands of the sea reference?

Rev 20:8 Gog and Magog whose number are as the sands of the sea

dfw69 · Aug 31, 2023

dwb001 said:
I am just questioning other peoples beliefs.
If I want to put my own beliefs out there and open them up for discussion I will.
But that would be in my own time and manner.

It’s just a suggestion

dwb001 · Aug 31, 2023

dfw69 said:
Perhaps the millennium is the test so that they may enter the new Jerusalem to come

Nope... They damned.

dfw69 said:
But one last temptation takes place by Satan. Perhaps satan when released will fly around claiming to be God …who knows

Probably but I don't know Satan's plans anymore than I know God's plans.

dfw69 said:
No marriage for the resurrected saints…the nations are mortal ..so are the many Israelites that were saved from death

References. What verse in Revelation has "many Israelites" saved from death?

dfw69 said:
Rev 20:8 Gog and Magog whose number are as the sands of the sea

Good. Now include these type of references in all your posts and I can stop asking for them.

dfw69 · Aug 31, 2023

dwb001 said:
Nope... They damned.

Why are they damn?
It doesn’t say that

dwb001 said:
References. What verse in Revelation has "many Israelites" saved from death?

In rev 12 Israelites flee from satan and are protected for a specific amount of time until Jesus comes to send the angels to gather the elect of God

dwb001 said:
Good. Now include these type of references in all your posts and I can stop asking for them.

Lol after awhile you won’t need a ref for every little detail if you stay long enough on this forum

dwb001 · Aug 31, 2023

dfw69 said:
Why are they damn?
It doesn’t say that

There is an 'ed' at the end of that word.
It says it in Rev 20:9.

dfw69 said:
In rev 12 Israelites flee from satan and are protected for a specific amount of time until Jesus comes to send the angels to gather the elect of God

One possible interpretation is Israelites.
But we are making progress.

dfw69 said:
Lol after awhile you won’t need a ref for every little detail if you stay long enough on this forum

I require references every time... or I will ask.
It is how I keep people on task and make sure we don't get off into assumption land.

dfw69 · Aug 31, 2023

dwb001 said:
There is an 'ed' at the end of that word.
It says it in Rev 20:9.

There is ??? Oh no ..the travesty!!

The only ones damn ‘ed’ are the ones that surround the camp and city to attack

dwb001 said:
One possible interpretation is Israelites.
But we are making progress.

Kool

dwb001 said:
I require references every time... or I will ask.
It is how I keep people on task and make sure we don't get off into assumption land.

But I like assumption land

dwb001 · Aug 31, 2023

dfw69 said:
There is ??? Oh no ..the travesty!!

It does change the entire meaning of the word.

dfw69 said:
Kool

But I like assumption land

And the next stop is apostate land.

dfw69 · Aug 31, 2023

dwb001 said:
It does change the entire meaning of the word.

And the next stop is apostate land.

Lol … not for me ..I got an appointment to heavenland

dwb001 · Aug 31, 2023

dfw69 said:
Lol … not for me ..I got an appointment to heavenland

All things are possible.

Diamond72 · Sep 2, 2023

Marilyn C said:
Many people think that the rapture is for believers to escape the tribulation

God had to take Lot out of the city before He could destroy it.

Marilyn C · Sep 3, 2023

Diamond7 said:
God had to take Lot out of the city before He could destroy it.

Yes, and Enoch also before the flood.

anetazo · Sep 3, 2023

The rapture theory is false doctrine, and God hates the fly away doctrine, Ezekiel chapter 13 to document.
Duertonmomy 29:20 . The false preachers names are blotted out from under heaven.
Ezekiel chapter 13. The false preachers are not listed in the records of the house of Israel.
The false brethren go into the pit with satan during millennium. On judgement day, the big hammer drop on the fake shepherds. They are spirtual murderers.
God hates false teachings. God hates false preachers.

Revelation chapter 13 and second thessalonians chapter 2. The son of perdition is satan, he comes 6th trump in his role as antichrist near future to Jerusalem.
The majority of people are biblically illiterate. They are too lazy to study the bible or enjoy listening to misguided preachers.
Ephesians chapter 6 tells us to have on gospel armour. Apparently, most people are biblically illiterate.
We see the impact of fake shepherds on people. Teaching traditions of men and false doctrine.
Majority will worship antichrist near future.
Revelation chapter 20. The millennium is the last chance for the spirtualty dead. Its time of teaching and discipline for the spirtualty dead. The fake shepherds wont be around during millennium.

Diamond72 · Sep 3, 2023

anetazo said:
God hates the fly away doctrine

The "fly away doctrine" might refer to a particular interpretation or teaching within a specific religious context, but without more context, it's challenging to provide a precise explanation or interpretation of this statement. This passage has been interpreted differently within various Christian traditions, and not all Christians believe in the Rapture or interpret these verses in the same way. It's a topic of theological debate and discussion among Christians. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

The word "caught up" is in the Bible. ἁρπάζω (harpazó) is used 14 times. Sometimes translated to pluck or take by force.

Most Christians believe that when we die we go to Heaven to be with Jesus. Only we leave our physical body behind, to be raised at the resurrection whenever that is. Most likely after the 1000-year reign of Christ when there will be a new Heaven and a New Earth. Actually, there were people resurrected when Jesus died at Calvary, but we do not know what happened to them. I suppose we can assume they are with Jesus in Heaven even though they have a physical body now.

Perhaps you do not believe in a 7 year tribulation. Or you do not believe God will remove the Church before He pours His wrath out.

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