The Prosperity Doctrine

[Simon_Templar]

Well, darn those prosperity folks! Who do they think they are anyways, little gods or something?

Actually, Oscarr, I would agree with you, if I ever heard anyone preach the doctrine you outlined above. Of course, as is usual for those who don't believe that Gods promises are true and sure for those who believe them today, your statement does not at all represent what is commonly preached by those whom most would label as "prosperity teachers". (There may be some wierdoes like that out there, but not any I listen too). The poeple that I esteem and listen to (Kenneth Copeland, Creflo Dollar, Andrew Womack, Keith Moore, Charles Capps, etc.), don't preach/teach anything like that.

This does make a certain amount of sense from a logistics point of view. Because if you were honest about what they preach, you would be arguing against scripture, and that would not come across very good, now would it?

I mean, then you would have to explain how God doesn't give us the power to get wealth, How he doesn't allow us to reap what we sow, how giving to the poor will not be returned, and how Christ did not become poor so that we might be rich, how wealth and riches will not be in the house of those that fear him, and how the wealth of the sinner is not layed up for the just. (I could list about 20 more scriptures, but you get the point).

If you want to mock those you disagree with it, it is much easier to create their theology yourself. A little dishonest, but effective. (But not very Christlike.)



Yes, and this form of argument is so very useful. I have heard it over and over again. Don't forget, those against tongues said that tongues were traced back to druidic origins, not to mention voodoo, and were a sign of possession.

And then of course, there are those that link charismatics to new age, and Christmas to the druids, and Easter to Ishtar, etc, etc, etc. I know some christians who wont do anything, cause they think it is related to something demonic in history. What a load of crock. Satan is the great immitator. Because he immitates God doesn't mean that God is immitating him.

Peace...

I guess I'd have to say the disconnect is that I think what you describe is a gross misunderstanding and misapplication of the promises of scripture, and Jesus Christ.

 

[Elect]

BEWARE of those that make a big deal about money in the ministry.

Marjoe was a preacher. He was a con artist. He wanted out so he hired a film crew to film him and he exposes himself and explains how preachers, that are in it for the money, work. This is a clip from his documentary that he made. the whole documentary is on youtube in ten minute parts. Everyone should watch it. It is very enlightening.

 

[bloodbought09]

I see alot of what people personally think about prosperity here. I would ask that each one of us ask the Holy Spirit what He might say about prosperity. Invite Him in and kick the flesh out.

Personally, I do not send my money to get money in return. That money should be used to take care of the fatherless, feed the hungry, and build the building where His presence dwells in the place that preaches His word and does His will. If He wants to increase me in wisdom, knowledge, and understanding so that I might give more to His kingdom, then that should be His business.

I pray and hope that you all will agree or consider that we allow the Holy Spirit to be welcome here so that we may know what the Spirit is saying to His body. I ask that all flesh and words of the devil be not present, but that we have the mind of Christ and the unction of the Holy Ghost to get to the bottom of the matter with the words He would speak and not our own words. In Jesus name.

 

[cottom]

I lived in Broken Arrow / Tulsa Oklahoma during the height of 'name it-claim it' season. Coming from a straight laced Baptist background it bothered me. I seen it as "I give you all me money, and that will cause God to give me 100 times back." Folks, I grew up farming, it don't work that way, never has, and never will.
You will reap what you sow, EXACTLY what you sow, later that when you sowed it, and more that you sowed, up to a 100 % increase. But there are many Biblical precepts that must be complied with before getting a crop (return) like that.

 

[rturner76]

So do you reap exactly what you sow or a 100% increase? I'm confused

 

[AdamKane]

I don't believe in the Prosperity Doctrine. I do believe God wants the very best for people, but the prosperity doctrine goes about looking at blessings all wrong.

 

[Alive_Again]

So what is the prosperity doctrine? Everyone has something in mind when they hear this phrase.

It's about prospering in the things you do. It was demonstrated by God in Deuteronomy 28 that if you hearken diligently to what God says and do not turn to the side, you will be blessed in ALL that you do.

That's pretty straightforward. His desire to bless His people is all through the Word. David talked about it at length. Solomon demonstrated the fruits of wisdom. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, the 12 patriarchs all prospered in their time as they moved into their God appointed inheritance.

We've inherited all things that pertain to life and godliness. Paul said "All things are yours". In the parable of the prodigal son, the obedient son was told that all that He had was his.

Inheritance was meant to begin during the lifetime of the giver. It extends even to the children's children.

Our Canaan land is our inheritance. It is of the Spirit of God. All that the Spirit of God does is full of wisdom, and wisdom has children. You can research God's will and testament for all of His people to ascertain what those fruits are.

If the heir is a child, he is no different from the bondservant, though he be lord over all. Our part is to mature to hear and do what God has called us to do and we will assuredly prosper in that.

We have many scriptures as signposts along the path of life. They all point to the land of that inheritance. Let's move beyond a formula based method of prosperity consciousness and enjoy the intimate relationship with God this covenant offers us. It is free of covetousness and lust of "things". Let's acknowledge our freedom from fear of lack and believe God to provide the things we need to do His work. This is true prosperity.

 

[dkbwarrior]

Somethings wrong with this page, its all stretched out and weird.....

 

[dkbwarrior]

Somethings still wrong...

 

[dkbwarrior]

Still messed up...

 

[dkbwarrior]

So what is the prosperity doctrine? Everyone has something in mind when they hear this phrase.

And thats the real problem, isn't it? We all have an opinion, but we are not all talking about the same thing.

Some people are talking primarily about preachers attampt to manipulate money from the sheep through the sowing and reaping principle.

Others are talking about greed in the pews, among the poeple who embrace the message for the wrong reasons.

Others, like myself, when they talk about "prosperity" are referring specifically to the promises of God found in the scriptures, which include promises of prosperity, spirit, soul, and body, socially and financially.

I don't believe the promises of prosperity in the Bible because I desire to have the wealth of Bill Gates. I believe the promises because that is the gospel, to believe the promises of God. God has plans for my life, just as He has for everyone else. And He also has set up the provision for me to be able to accomplish those plans, as well as being able to give to the kingdom and to others. But like everything else that God has promised to us, these things don't just drop outta heaven on our heads. We have to believe Gods promises regarding them for them to happen in our lives. And that is what the promises of prosperity are all about, IMHO.

Peace...

 

[thegospelisgoodnews]

And thats the real problem, isn't it? We all have an opinion, but we are not all talking about the same thing.

Some people are talking primarily about preachers attampt to manipulate money from the sheep through the sowing and reaping principle.

Others are talking about greed in the pews, among the poeple who embrace the message for the wrong reasons.

Others, like myself, when they talk about "prosperity" are referring specifically to the promises of God found in the scriptures, which include promises of prosperity, spirit, soul, and body, socially and financially.

I don't believe the promises of prosperity in the Bible because I desire to have the wealth of Bill Gates. I believe the promises because that is the gospel, to believe the promises of God. God has plans for my life, just as He has for everyone else. And He also has set up the provision for me to be able to accomplish those plans, as well as being able to give to the kingdom and to others. But like everything else that God has promised to us, these things don't just drop outta heaven on our heads. We have to believe Gods promises regarding them for them to happen in our lives. And that is what the promises of prosperity are all about, IMHO.

Peace...

Do you ever find that those teaching you, take a scripture or verse from the bible and say this is what God is saying to you, like Jeremiah 29:11........this is not a biblical way of teaching or receiving truth, these teachers could just as well pick out a verse where a curse is being spoken and say God is speaking this to you....."Hermeneutics" is completely lacking in these bible teachers repertoire.

 

[rturner76]

"If you have a need, plant a seed" I'm speaking to somebody in here today church. That little old lady she got a coffee can in her cupboard with $50 in and I was her to take that $50 dolars for emergencies, and plant it ans a seed and reap the harvest of 100 fold 200 fold 300 fold on that money. The Bible says I will pour you out a blessing.... somebody can't hear me tonight I need a harvest!

THose guys make my skin crawl beating those nice old ladies out of their grocery money and litttle emergency 20s and 50s even 100s. Some leave everything t them when they die for a prayer towel or some oil that ain't nothing but some 99 cents a bottle mineral oil for 20 dollars for 1 oz. Should be ashamed of theirself and have no shame in it. Do it with not one ounce of shame and say thy are doing the lord's work. Look right in the camera and say they doing the good lords work o you den of vipers! I used to love Creflo DOllar but then I saw he was one one of the worst of them.

I saw him on TV reading something out of the Bible about when the priest was paid well talkin bout see? And the Pastor is supposed to be well paid so you can know it's a prosperous church. I was like oh really.Catholic church is pretty prosperous and thrie priests take a vow of poverty so what are they talking about?

It'd a lie. Jesus said no rich man can see heaven right. Can't serve 2 masters, it's either money or God can't be both. You can make a living doing what you love and go to church but don't say you doing it for the glory of God because you would do it free of give away the money. Call it what it is...greed. I have it too. I like nice things but I'm not going to call it Godly, I'mma call it what it ig greed or want or even lust after that shiny new Cadillac.

Greedy self

 

[dkbwarrior]

That little old lady she got a coffee can in her cupboard with $50 in and I was her to take that $50 dolars for emergencies, and plant it ans a seed and reap the harvest of 100 fold 200 fold 300 fold on that money.

I have never heard anyone say this. I suppose that somebody somewhere does, but I don't listen to them. As far as Creflo Dollar goes, I have listened to enough of him to know this is not something he would say. But this is the point I was making earlier. When you start talking about money, poeple hear not what you say, but what is in they expect you to say. Often, what they hear says alot more about what is in their own heart, than in the heart of the one preaching.

Peace...

 

[lismore]

I have never heard anyone say this. ...

Unfortunately it's true.

 

[dkbwarrior]

Unfortunately it's true.

Whats true? That preachers ask little old ladies to go to their emergency coffee can money and get it out and give it to the preacher? Or that preachers promise 100-200-300 percent? I have never heard either out of any preacher that I have ever listened to.

As far as the first one goes, I suppose that this is something that a true fraud and fleecer of the flock may say. I can see it as being a possibility. But I have never heard anything like that from the preachers that I listen to, that happen to be the ones most people rail against, such as, Creflo Dollar, Kenneth Copeland, Jesse Duplantis, et al.

Nor have I ever heard a preacher say 100-200-300 percent. It is 30-60-100 fold, and I don't even think a fraud would say something that would so obviously be unscriptural. I have certainly never heard it said, anywhere, ever.

The problem here is of course, that just because some witches speak in tongues, doesn't mean that the principle is bad. And just because some take advantage of the flock by preaching sowing and reaping, doesn't mean that the sowing and reaping principle is not biblical. Not everyone that preaches the promises of prosperity are true men of God, but that doesn't mean that the promises of prosperity found in the scriptures are not the promises of God.

Peace...

 

[rturner76]

I think it's a lie and I don't see where it is scripturaly sound other than using scripture that was meant for other purposes pr OT laws that were done away with in the new covenant. Else it's some OT things were done away with and some remain and that is confusing at least for me. I wouldn't know which ones are still in place and which are done away with. Like should we sacrifice a lamb on Easter? If I'm wrong I will change my thought but I can't write any checks, there's nothing in there. Can I still come in?

 

[TasManOfGod]

I think it's a lie and I don't see where it is scripturaly sound other than using scripture that was meant for other purposes pr OT laws that were done away with in the new covenant. Else it's some OT things were done away with and some remain and that is confusing at least for me. I wouldn't know which ones are still in place and which are done away with. Like should we sacrifice a lamb on Easter? If I'm wrong I will change my thought but I can't write any checks, there's nothing in there. Can I still come in?

Jesus turns none away _ He promised abundant life -is that what you are looking for

 

[rturner76]

I am looking for a relationship with my creator and savior. Peace that surpasses all understanding. That is all I want an abundance of. One must be careful when one desires the things of this world.

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.Matthew 19:23 KJV


For the sun is no sooner risen with a burning heat, but it withereth the grass, and the flower thereof falleth, and the grace of the fashion of it perisheth: so also shall the rich man fade away in his ways. James 1:11 KJV

The rich and poor meet together: the Lord is the maker of them all.Proverbs 22:2 KJV

Lo, this is the man that made not God his strength; but trusted in the abundance of his riches, and strengthened himself in his wickedness.Psalm 52:7 KJV

 

[AdamKane]

The reason a person gives is not to get, but to help others.

It seems manipulative and selfish for a pastor who clearly has few financial struggles to ask someone who may be having a hard time to give money to them instead of someone worse off!