The Prosperity Doctrine

[Presbyterian Continuist]

The Prosperity doctrine teaches that those who have faith in God will become wealthy, have the best of material things and life will be sweet and comfortable.

Note that Baal was and still is the pagan god of fertility and prosperity. This is was the sin of Israel. They had a faith in God, but they also worshipped Baal to ensure that they were able to have good harvests and healthy families. They put material wealth before daily trust in the providence and care of God, as they did in the desert before they reached the Promised Land.

So, it can be argued that the present day Prosperity Doctrine is merely a modern form of Baal worship, and the same judgment that happened to the Baal worshippers of Israel, may very well happen to those who subscribe to the Prosperity doctrine.

 

[dkbwarrior]

The Prosperity doctrine teaches that those who have faith in God will become wealthy, have the best of material things and life will be sweet and comfortable.

Well, darn those prosperity folks! Who do they think they are anyways, little gods or something?

Actually, Oscarr, I would agree with you, if I ever heard anyone preach the doctrine you outlined above. Of course, as is usual for those who don't believe that Gods promises are true and sure for those who believe them today, your statement does not at all represent what is commonly preached by those whom most would label as "prosperity teachers". (There may be some wierdoes like that out there, but not any I listen too). The poeple that I esteem and listen to (Kenneth Copeland, Creflo Dollar, Andrew Womack, Keith Moore, Charles Capps, etc.), don't preach/teach anything like that.

This does make a certain amount of sense from a logistics point of view. Because if you were honest about what they preach, you would be arguing against scripture, and that would not come across very good, now would it?

I mean, then you would have to explain how God doesn't give us the power to get wealth, How he doesn't allow us to reap what we sow, how giving to the poor will not be returned, and how Christ did not become poor so that we might be rich, how wealth and riches will not be in the house of those that fear him, and how the wealth of the sinner is not layed up for the just. (I could list about 20 more scriptures, but you get the point).

If you want to mock those you disagree with it, it is much easier to create their theology yourself. A little dishonest, but effective. (But not very Christlike.)

Note that Baal was and still is the pagan god of fertility and prosperity. This is was the sin of Israel. They had a faith in God, but they also worshipped Baal to ensure that they were able to have good harvests and healthy families. They put material wealth before daily trust in the providence and care of God, as they did in the desert before they reached the Promised Land.

So, it can be argued that the present day Prosperity Doctrine is merely a modern form of Baal worship, and the same judgment that happened to the Baal worshippers of Israel, may very well happen to those who subscribe to the Prosperity doctrine.

Yes, and this form of argument is so very useful. I have heard it over and over again. Don't forget, those against tongues said that tongues were traced back to druidic origins, not to mention voodoo, and were a sign of possession.

And then of course, there are those that link charismatics to new age, and Christmas to the druids, and Easter to Ishtar, etc, etc, etc. I know some christians who wont do anything, cause they think it is related to something demonic in history. What a load of crock. Satan is the great immitator. Because he immitates God doesn't mean that God is immitating him.

Peace...

 

[Faulty]

The Prosperity doctrine teaches that those who have faith in God will become wealthy, have the best of material things and life will be sweet and comfortable.

Yup, and it wasn't just this, it was that God "needed" me rich. This exactly the kind of stuff I heard from Hagin, Copeland and Fred Price back in the day when they had my attention, but they no longer have that.

Note that Baal was and still is the pagan god of fertility and prosperity. This is was the sin of Israel. They had a faith in God, but they also worshipped Baal to ensure that they were able to have good harvests and healthy families. They put material wealth before daily trust in the providence and care of God, as they did in the desert before they reached the Promised Land.

So, it can be argued that the present day Prosperity Doctrine is merely a modern form of Baal worship, and the same judgment that happened to the Baal worshippers of Israel, may very well happen to those who subscribe to the Prosperity doctrine.

I don't know. It seems more like self-worship to me, satisfying the lusts of the flesh. Men love darkness rather than light (John 3:19).

 

[rturner76]

Mark 10:25 (Mark 10)

It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.”

Luke 18:25 (Luke 18)

For it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.”

 

[Tallen]

The poeple that I esteem and listen to (Kenneth Copeland, Creflo Dollar, Andrew Womack, Keith Moore, Charles Capps, etc.), don't preach/teach anything like that.

Here's one or two of those you esteem..., preaching their gospel. Do you agree with them?

Note Dollar worship of mammon. SEE ME. Would you like to see Copeland's self control?

 

[Faulty]

A few years before Hagins death, he also noticed this particular evil among the WoF teachings.

As a result, he wrote a book called 'The Midas Touch', to kind of counteract this teaching. Before the book was released, he called together many of the prominant WoF teachers, including Copeland and Dollar, and personally warned them of their teaching of this doctrine, and gave them a copy of his book as well. Of course, they proceeded to basically ignore him.

I found what he did to be very admirable and I give him his proper kudos for doing so.

Now, if Hagin saw this issue as a great problem within WoF circles, enough to speak to them personally and wrote a book about it, then what does that say about the average WoF follower who refuses to see it. Metaphorically speaking, the frog in the pot of boiling water comes to mind.

 

[Optimax]

Well, darn those prosperity folks! Who do they think they are anyways, little gods or something?

Actually, Oscarr, I would agree with you, if I ever heard anyone preach the doctrine you outlined above. Of course, as is usual for those who don't believe that Gods promises are true and sure for those who believe them today, your statement does not at all represent what is commonly preached by those whom most would label as "prosperity teachers". (There may be some wierdoes like that out there, but not any I listen too). The poeple that I esteem and listen to (Kenneth Copeland, Creflo Dollar, Andrew Womack, Keith Moore, Charles Capps, etc.), don't preach/teach anything like that.

This does make a certain amount of sense from a logistics point of view. Because if you were honest about what they preach, you would be arguing against scripture, and that would not come across very good, now would it?

I mean, then you would have to explain how God doesn't give us the power to get wealth, How he doesn't allow us to reap what we sow, how giving to the poor will not be returned, and how Christ did not become poor so that we might be rich, how wealth and riches will not be in the house of those that fear him, and how the wealth of the sinner is not layed up for the just. (I could list about 20 more scriptures, but you get the point).

If you want to mock those you disagree with it, it is much easier to create their theology yourself. A little dishonest, but effective. (But not very Christlike.)



Yes, and this form of argument is so very useful. I have heard it over and over again. Don't forget, those against tongues said that tongues were traced back to druidic origins, not to mention voodoo, and were a sign of possession.

And then of course, there are those that link charismatics to new age, and Christmas to the druids, and Easter to Ishtar, etc, etc, etc. I know some christians who wont do anything, cause they think it is related to something demonic in history. What a load of crock. Satan is the great immitator. Because he immitates God doesn't mean that God is immitating him.

Peace...

Excellent Post dkb.

It will probably hit the "brick wall" of "already made up my mind so don't confuse me with facts".

 

[Faulty]

It will probably hit the "brick wall" of "already made up my mind so don't confuse me with facts".

Yup. I am certain the OP will indeed likely hit that brick wall as well.

 

[Tallen]

A few years before Hagins death, he also noticed this particular evil among the WoF teachings.

As a result, he wrote a book called 'The Midas Touch', to kind of counteract this teaching. Before the book was released, he called together many of the prominant WoF teachers, including Copeland and Dollar, and personally warned them of their teaching of this doctrine, and gave them a copy of his book as well. Of course, they proceeded to basically ignore him.

I found what he did to be very admirable and I give him his proper kudos for doing so.

Now, if Hagin saw this issue as a great problem within WoF circles, enough to speak to them personally and wrote a book about it, then what does that say about the average WoF follower who refuses to see it. Metaphorically speaking, the frog in the pot of boiling water comes to mind.

I commend him as well, in this matter. But he ignored his own public sin of plagarism, for one. Also, his story telling and his visions of time in the spirit often taught unbiblical doctrines. Personally, I think Hagin was smart enough to know that these guys are bitting the hand that feeds them. And there actions are an embarrassment which will cause the sheep being fleeced to look to others who will clip them.

Hagin is no shining example of righteous behavior, IMO.

 

[Tallen]

Excellent Post dkb.

It will probably hit the "brick wall" of "already made up my mind so don't confuse me with facts".

Yeah..., here is some examples of wof teachers who are leading the way.

CLICK ME.

 

[Faulty]

I commend him as well, in this matter. But he ignored his own public sin of plagarism, for one. Also, his story telling and his visions of time in the spirit often taught unbiblical doctrines. Personally, I think Hagin was smart enough to know that these guys are bitting the hand that feeds them. And there actions are an embarrassment which will cause the sheep being fleeced to look to others who will clip them.

Hagin is no shining example of righteous behavior, IMO.

I'm not interested in any Hagin-bashing as a person. A lot of his teachings, however, I consider ignorant at best.

But in this particular instance, he did the right thing, even if I don't know what the motives were. So I choose not to presume wrong motives about this situation, simply because I do not know for sure one way or the other.

The irony was that they got that teaching from Hagin himself, as well did I at one time.

 

[Optimax]

If one listens to all the message instead of "what proves my point" the prosperity message is not just about money.

Money is only a "piece" pf the prosperity pie.

Other pieces include

relationships and healing.

But then, a lot of people "pick" on healing as well.

OK, I'm done.

Not going to spend my time arguing.

So, go ahead and jump back in with all "trashing".

 

[Tallen]

Blessings.

 

[Faulty]

If one listens to all the message instead of "what proves my point" the prosperity message is not just about money.

Money is only a "piece" pf the prosperity pie.

Other pieces include

relationships and healing.

But then, a lot of people "pick" on healing as well.

OK, I'm done.

Not going to spend my time arguing.

So, go ahead and jump back in with all "trashing".

I can't say I appreciate the talking down to as if I'm ignorant of these things. I am not.

But if you choose to close the eyes, cover the ears, and walk away, that is your choice to make.

To quote a recent post, "It will probably hit the 'brick wall' of 'already made up my mind so don't confuse me with facts'."

 

[Tallen]

If one listens to all the message instead of "what proves my point" the prosperity message is not just about money.

Money is only a "piece" pf the prosperity pie.

Other pieces include

relationships and healing.

But then, a lot of people "pick" on healing as well.

OK, I'm done.

Not going to spend my time arguing.

So, go ahead and jump back in with all "trashing".

You know, I wouldn't eat any of the pie if some of it is rotten. I perfer the Pie that YHWH serves, it is pure and good for the soul.

Blessings.

 

[Optimax]

I can't say I appreciate the talking down to as if I'm ignorant of these things. I am not.

But if you choose to close the eyes, cover the ears, and walk away, that is your choice to make.

To quote a recent post, "It will probably hit the 'brick wall' of 'already made up my mind so don't confuse me with facts'."

Not "talking down" to anyone. Just stating a few things.

 

[dkbwarrior]

Here's one or two of those you esteem..., preaching their gospel. Do you agree with them?

Note Dollar worship of mammon. SEE ME. Would you like to see Copeland's self control?

That is awesome.

I don't listen to Leroy much, but I think I just changed my mind. Gotta get me some of his dvds.

Peace...

 

[dkbwarrior]

Although, I'm not sure how showing a preacher being excited about the subject they are preaching on has to do with the OP, (I know tallen, you don't care about the OP, all you care about is the opportunity to mock and scorn that with which you disagree).

What the OP said is this:

The Prosperity doctrine teaches that those who have faith in God will become wealthy, have the best of material things and life will be sweet and comfortable.

Until such time as someone can show me where a well known prosperity teacher that I esteem has ever said any thing like this, I declare this to be a false witness.

I have never heard anyone say that those that have faith in God will become wealthy. Lots of poeple have faith in God. But not all believe the promises of God regarding finances.

I have heard people say that meditating on, confessing and believing the promises of God regarding prosperity can bring wealth and riches. It is a very different thing.

I have never heard anyone say that life will be sweet and comfortable. In fact, was just listening to a Kenneth Hagin sermon on healing last week at work (I play those pesky WOF preachers at work for my employees to listen too; they don't all like it, but I own the business, so what can they say), and he said that he can gaurantee that if you start believing the promises of God you are not going to "float through life on flowery beds of ease". Trial and temptations and persecutions come, but we can be assured that if we hold fast the confession of our faith without wavering, He is faithful that promised, and He will bring it to pass. Bad stuff will come, but God will bring us out the other side. This is taught by every so-called "prosperity teacher" that I have ever listened too.

This is what I have heard. Creflo Dollar said the same thing this morning on his daily show. (I have the week off, so I caught him). He said that everyone talks about the confession and the possession, but they forget to talk about the process between the too. When you have to hold fast your confession in the face of circumstances that seem to be saying just the opposite of what one is believing.

No-one says that life will be sweet and comfortable.

Yup. I am certain the OP will indeed likely hit that brick wall as well.

Of that you can be certain. Until he proves his initial premise to be true, and not a false witness, (which he cannot, because it is a false witness), then all he will find here is a brick wall. Of course, I'm sure he will find an amen corner in all those who enjoy the mocking of their brethren, even if it is mocking based upon false a false witness. I suppose that the opportunity to belittle others is much more appealing than the truth.

Peace...

 

[dkbwarrior]

Yeah..., here is some examples of wof teachers who are leading the way.

CLICK ME.

Actually, that was so good, I think I am going to send Leroy a check.

Peace...

 

[Tallen]

Although, I'm not sure how showing a preacher being excited about the subject they are preaching on has to do with the OP, (I know tallen, you don't care about the OP, all you care about is the opportunity to mock and scorn that with which you disagree).

Here is what the scripture says:

But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine: That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience. (Titus 2:1-2, KJV)

And,

This [is] a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. (1 Timothy 3:1-7, KJV)

Would you kindly explain how the actions of those men in the linked video qualify them for their positions as leaders in the church?